WHM Have NO Natural Refresh Capability, WHY?

Thank you for posting this! Very valid arguments and being a whm for a few years now, I would love to see us having a refresh of our own.

While an Auto-Refresh trait would be nice for WHM, it's far from needed. Abyssea has several forms of Refresh atmas, so I won't go into why it's not needed in there. Outside of Abyssea though it's different, and the main problem people seem to be having is realizing that WHM in Abyssea is vastly different from WHM outside of Abyssea.

Outside of Abyssea, you sub Scholar, you keep Sublimation up, you downgrade from Cure V and VI to Cure III and Cure IV (using Penury if you absolutely must use Cure V; never use Cure VI). Additonally, you rest. You get down on your goddamn knee if MP gets low and recover it the old fashioned way; in these situations you employ something called an hMP set, y'know, those things that say "MP recovered while healing +X"?

There's also no reason you don't have several ticks of Auto-refresh from your idle set. If you play through quests correctly, there's no reason you can't get at least 5mp/tic back. Let's count them off:
Weapon: Owleyes (+1mp/tic)
Moonshade Earring (+1mp/tic)
Body: Orison Bliauld +1/+2 (+1mp/tic or +2mp/tic respectively)
Hands: Serpentes Cuffs (+1mp/tic at night)
Legs: Stearc Subligar (+1mp/tic)
Feet: Serpentes Sabbots (+1mp/tic during the day)

Add it all up and you have at minimum, 5mp/tic (6mp/tic if you have the +2 version of the Orison Bliaud) return, and I'm probably forgetting about one or two other things too.

More MP is nothing more than an excuse to let a WHM act a little more recklessly; it doesn't (shouldn't) have any affect on their ability to keep a player alive through a battle.

I see this as saying "Why can't every melee job get Utsusemi?" Give WHM a Refresh, and you make RDM suffer in the process. Allowing the abilities RDM gets (Refresh AND Convert) through subbing already makes WHM/RDM on a more attractive option than a RDM. Why increase the blow even further? Because you want to sub a different mage job on your WHM? Sorry, you just can't have the perks from everything.

1 tic of autorefresh just isn't that helpful. It's why /smn never did much for anyone once tanks started using utsusemi and no longer needed garuda blink. If you're looking to adjust/strengthen WHM there are probably better places to start.

Are we still driving this into the ground?

Have we not yet agreed that WHM has no "natural" refresh already?
As to the OP's original question, only the development team can answer why. the rest of us can only guess.

good night thread

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Originally Posted by Simian

Are we still driving this into the ground?

Have we not yet agreed that WHM has no "natural" refresh already?
As to the OP's original question, only the development team can answer why. the rest of us can only guess.

good night thread

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Reading is hard.

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Originally Posted by Avarice

Outside of Abyssea, you sub Scholar, you keep Sublimation up, you downgrade from Cure V and VI to Cure III and Cure IV (using Penury if you absolutely must use Cure V; never use Cure VI).

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Why would you stop using Cure5? Cure 3/5 were the 2 preferred cures pre-abyssea and I don't see why they won't be the preferred ones post-abyssea. It's more mp efficient than any other cure.

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Originally Posted by Nacht

Why would you stop using Cure5? Cure 3/5 were the 2 preferred cures pre-abyssea and I don't see why they won't be the preferred ones post-abyssea. It's more mp efficient than any other cure.

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I agree with Nacht, Cure 3 and 5 were my bread and butter before I gots ridonkulous Refresh atmas.
Also: Outside of abyssea I'm still going to sub Red mage. I like refresh. I like skilling Enhancing... It's good times

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Originally Posted by Avarice

Outside of Abyssea, you sub Scholar, you keep Sublimation up, you downgrade from Cure V and VI to Cure III and Cure IV (using Penury if you absolutely must use Cure V; never use Cure VI).

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No reason to 'downgrade' anything.

Assuming you have +2 pants and capped potency (which every whm should have or be working towards) and cure for the full amount:

Cure III = 28MP
Cure IV = 50MP
Cure V = 67MP
Cure V (with Penury) = 2MP
Cure VI = 130MP
Cure VI (with Penury) = 39MP

The difference between cost of Cure 4 and 5 and the amount they heal mean it's rarely worth it, especially if you're gonna have issues with enmity. I'd just stick to 3 and 5, maybe use 6 at a push but only with Penury active.

I never use cure IV^^ I dont really like to tank as WHM^_- I'll leave that to RDMs and PLDs :D

Inside Abyssea : Cure V, VI
Outside Cure 3-5
You need to actually be smart at WHM to effectivly use Cure 4, it's very MP effeicent if you put more -Enimity in it then other cures, it's used for when you don't have enough MP to warrent a Cure V but cure 3 will not be enough. Never once have i grabed hate using cure IV when i needed, unless the tank was just incredibly dumb.

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Originally Posted by Aleste

I don't see the need for WHM to get the job trait auto-refresh; hell, I can barely recall the last time I've ran out of mp. Inside and out of abyssea we've plenty of methods to deal with our mp supply, most of which have been covered (previous posters).

We've more than enough methods to help recover mp passively (refresh and HMP gearsets), reduce consumption (conserve mp, AF3+2 pantaloons) and recover mp aggressively (Dagan, Mystic boon, Spirit taker and the other 2 lol-light WS's). We've even got devotion to help other people with their MP pools (I usually tag-team devotion with the other whitemage I'm assigned with) and that's before covering subjobs or other teammates abilities to help us out.

So in summation, if you're running out of MP in any fight then something is seriously wrong.

If you're inside of abyssea, get your 3 atma slots, and go hunt out minikin/ASA/stormbird/anyrefreshatmas. Minikin ALONE should be more than enough to keep your alliance standing. Add on 2 more 5/tic refresh atma's if you're really struggling.

Outside of abyssea, you should be using a little common sense as there's no 20/tic ref. crutch to hold you up. You've got to plan ahead, know what you're going to do.... and be prepared. Bring your max mp set, a respectable HMP build, refresh gear, and your supplies...

I start most fights around ~1,500 MP on Elv. (/sch), and it's pretty hard to burn through all that MP w/ a little common sense. If for some god forsaken reason I get low, then it's a case of 1 of 3 things:

Are we fighting it wrong? Do the tactics need changed?
Do I have time to rest and recover MP via Clear Mind V paired with a strong HMP set?
Shall I take an 'ace' from up my sleeve? Vile elixers are pretty cheap these days. Hell if things are bleak.. bust out the regain feather, though remember to change to club first (for booooooon~)

Honestly though, we've more than enough methods to keep up our MP, and the AF3+2 pants are quite possibly the best thing that has happened to WHM in a long time. The amount of efficiency gained just from a single piece of gear is astounding, and is well worth slaying Sobek or Tristitia over and over.

If SE does decide that we're MP challenged then they should definitely add in more gear like the AF3 pantaloons (Converts X% of "Cure" amount to MP). The guy that made that gear deserves some sort of internet high-five...

Though, back on topic if you really think a single 1/tic refresh job trait will make and break white-mage, then perhaps you should collect all the below gear, then have a re-think about how you play whitemage in general.

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Refresh gear (all 1/tic) : Owleyes, Augmented Wivre Hairpin, Moonshade Earring, Orison Bliaud (+2/tic), Serpentes Cuffs/Sabots (set, depending on day), Balrahn's Ring (Assaults permitting), Poison Tasters Cape (if you're feeling fancy) and an augmented Stearc Subligar.

That's 9/tic, just in gear alone. Some of it might be considered a little fanciful, but it's worthwhile to idle in.

HMP gear : Rsv. Capt. Mace, Legion Scutum, Clarus Stone, Mirror Tiara, Eidolon Pendant, Relaxing Earring, Antivenom Earring, Oracle's Robe, Oracle's Gloves, Dual Star Rings, Vita Cape, Austerity Belt, Nisse Slacks, Avocat Pigaches

+50 HMP gear there, add in WHMs clear mind V trait for +77...80...83... Arguably, the hardest part is finding the time to get down and rest MP back.

Max MP Gear : Gambeteinn, Legion Scutum, Hedgehog Bomb, Pixie Earring, Orison Locket, Gifted Earring, Graiai Earring, Pluviale, Weald Gages (RSE), Bifrost Ring, Serket Ring, Ebuillient Cape, Bellisama's Rope, Adapa's Slacks, Conduit Shoes.

+873 MP; worthwhile for starting any fight in. Just remember to toggle out of it and into other gear appropriately. No point in wasting all that stored MP by accidently switching into your curing gear.

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And to think, didn't even touch on the amazing bonuses subjobs give (w/ Light arts, conserve mp traits, penury (<3) and sublimation... it's crazy)

I'd love to comment on frontline WHM and how they have MP difficulties, but[sarcasm] I can't seem to recover more than 1,400 MP every 100% tp. [/sarcasm] With a K-club, it'd be even more crazy as is.

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...age/Boon-1.jpg

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TL;DR - We've plenty of ways to reduce comsumption and recover our MP pool. Auto-refresh isn't needed in the slightest, but I won't say no to an extra tic of refresh.

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Okay, after rereading the posts. I have came to a more appropriate decision.

/declines WHMs of having a 'natural' Refresh. Aleste already made the point clear. WHMs shouldn't and does not need a Natural Form of Refresh.

Inside of Abyssea, you have Atma of the Minikin Montrosity. And Atma of Allure. WHMs don't need Auto-Refresh within Abyssea.

Outside of Abyssea, WHMs have insane amounts of MP. I know this is not much but still, I love my MP pool: 1.2k+ MP as Mithra, and I never once thought I needed a Natural Form of Refresh.

If you need MP/HMP, I know this is irrelevant, but you have other options. You can still use food. And Aleste's gear clearly shows that WHMs can handle everything inside or outside of Abyssea. And plus, not to offend anyone, but if you are truly a good WHM, and know your job, you should be able to 'conserve' your MP and use it wisely. As to not really feel the need of a Natural Refresh.

Thank you, Aleste for your in-depth information on how to conserve and gain MP. :)


Thread Closed.