New 99 trials

3,000 metal plates in 40 days? WTF?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.

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Ok, so go duo/trio your pop set today, consisting of Dynamis Lord, Duke Haures, Marquis Caim, Baron Avnas, Count Haagenti...and then find another 3-4 people, and go kill ADL with 6 tomorrow.


We'll be waiting

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

3,000 metal plates in 40 days? WTF?

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Dunno that's about what it took me and mdk. It's slightly more than the time required to farm 2x relics worth of currency.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Ok, so go duo/trio your pop set today, consisting of Dynamis Lord, Duke Haures, Marquis Caim, Baron Avnas, Count Haagenti...and then find another 3-4 people, and go kill ADL with 6 tomorrow.
We'll be waiting

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I did 16M today farming dumbamis with mdk, that'll do it ?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I did 16M today farming dumbamis with mdk, that'll do it ?

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ah yes, pchan's famous exaggerated numbers. (16m at an old 12k/currency price that no longer exists = 1333 currency...1333 currency in a 2 hour span (yeah you dont even waste time farming TE's) = 11 currency per minute)
Then go farm your popset tomorrow and kill ADL wednesday...IF you can do what you're preaching is "so easy".

once again, we will be waiting.

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Originally Posted by Brolic

why would you have pld in "_______"

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Cause it's the best job ever!

And Pchan's stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

Making ADL drop something thats actually decent would help. Shit, make him have a chance at dropping the 10,000 peices. thats enough reason to kill with some regularity.
Making PW drop something equivalant to 5k~10k alexandrite would give people a reason to do it with some regularity.
Everyone is already doing Voidwatch and killing the mobs that drop the items for empys, why make the other 2 weapons stuck doing shit that has almost zero gain for the people helping?

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Originally Posted by IronPandemonium

and also wipe to dragua consistently, just to place further emphasis on how good you are at this game

obligatory:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7298/34fh8r8.gif

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So much butthurt right there.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

ah yes, pchan's famous exaggerated numbers. (16m at an old 12k/currency price that no longer exists = 1333 currency...1333 currency in a 2 hour span (yeah you dont even waste time farming TE's) = 11 currency per minute)
Then go farm your popset tomorrow and kill ADL wednesday...IF you can do what you're preaching is "so easy".
once again, we will be waiting.

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Nobody will be surprised to learn that you don't even have a level 95 empy yet ?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

More QQ about the game being hard ? Seriously though, 20 ADl is fine to me. The 1/kill thing might not be an issue. It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.

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Wait, WHAT!? aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
This coming from YOU of all people!?

Post a picture of you 3 manning the pop sets (won't happen), then post a video of you 6 manning ADL (also won't happen) and you will be crowed king of the forums. Until then, you will remain in your dark corner.
Also show me the 3-4 people who will give up their Dynamis entries for 40 days (20 farming pops, 20 ADLs, and LOL at thinking you won't have any trouble doing that)

Edit- Nearly missed this gem

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16m in one dyna

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^^^ Why do you do these things to yourself?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I did 16M today farming dumbamis with mdk, that'll do it ?

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Sorry for double post but didn't feel like editting again-
This quote does not answer the proposed question at all. What does gil farming have to do with ADL kills? So No, "That'll NOT do it"

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Sorry for double post but didn't feel like editting again-
This quote does not answer the proposed question at all. What does gil farming have to do with ADL kills? So No, "That'll NOT do it"

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Duh, isn't it obvious - gil farming so you can buy Umbral Marrow that noone is selling because noone cba to kill ADL, of course!

Just because you can't be assed to farm relics doesn't mean anyone will (apparently you are only good at abyssea weapon according to your FFXIAH thing). If the majority of Voidwatch players can be assed to spam their stones in order to sell the few plates for 150k I'm sure they'll be willing to team up and sell an umbral marrow for 10 millions. I mean some people can be assed to do 6 KCNMs which before the warp thing required much more than a dynamis run with much less reward. It's just about how much people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay 150k per plate on my server which is 225M for the level 95 stage of empy why wouldn't they do the same for relic...

People don't do VW to sell plates you frothing moron. They do it for the gear and sell the plates because they drop and they don't want them.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Just because you can't be assed to farm relics doesn't mean anyone will (apparently you are only good at abyssea weapon according to your FFXIAH thing). If the majority of Voidwatch players can be assed to spam their stones in order to sell the few plates for 150k I'm sure they'll be willing to team up and sell an umbral marrow for 10 millions. I mean some people can be assed to do 6 KCNMs which before the warp thing required much more than a dynamis run with much less reward. It's just about how much people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay 150k per plate on my server which is 225M for the level 95 stage of empy why wouldn't they do the same for relic...

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Against my own better judgment I'm going to respond to this.

1. I never got a relic because back @ 75 cap none of them (for the jobs I had leveled back then) were tempting enough for me to justify the amount of effort/gil that it would take. Where were your relic @ 75 cap? Owait, you didn't have one either.

2. At the moment I'd rather finish my current goals than work on a relic.

3. What Insaniac said - I don't know a single soul that does voidwatch for the sole purpose of farming heavy metal plates to sell. People are either keeping them for their own empyrean weapon(s), or they are after other drops and if they happen to get plates, they sell them.

4. Comparing the relative ease of obtaining heavy metal plates by doing voidwatch, to farming ADL, is completely retarded.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Just because you can't be assed to farm relics doesn't mean anyone will (apparently you are only good at abyssea weapon according to your FFXIAH thing). If the majority of Voidwatch players can be assed to spam their stones in order to sell the few plates for 150k I'm sure they'll be willing to team up and sell an umbral marrow for 10 millions. I mean some people can be assed to do 6 KCNMs which before the warp thing required much more than a dynamis run with much less reward. It's just about how much people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay 150k per plate on my server which is 225M for the level 95 stage of empy why wouldn't they do the same for relic...

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Oh...my....gawd....

This is better than Comedy Central.

Oh pchans posting...wheres his triod adl popset?

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Originally Posted by IronPandemonium

have fun standing by your bullshit as per usual when here you are after the coming update without a ninety-nine stage relic, just like everyone else with their relic(s), all because the trial in-itself is utmost fucking ridiculous if they don't change it dramatically, yet people such as yourself can't understand a simple concept

let's assume there's at least eighteen relics in some of the best shells these days (which isn't highly unlikely by any means); granted, usually 2~3 are on the same character, but for this instance, let's assume they're spread across an alliance-worth of people so that everyone has one (not that it really matters, but for the sake of simplicity since we all acknowledge your i.q level being below average room temperature),

18(people) x 20(kills) =

fill in the blank you dumb fuck, because i don't know about you, but myself,

http://niejestdobrze.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/d5.jpg

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Your problem is that you can't do anything without your LS. I bet you do VW in a LS too. Arch DL was decently hard at 90 that's about it. We are now level 99 guys. ADL is basically a joke. PW is like a HQ version of buble berny.

I wonder how people managed to do Salvage or Einherjar back then, since apprently lotting against others is such a problem. As far as effort is concerned getting an Odin popset was much more work than what it is to get an arch DL popset....

That's an excellent straw man argument and I'm totally gonna let you finish, but let me just say:
When Odin put out, one person only needed one item once.

Not 20 abjurations.

I've got 5$ that he compares getting these pop items to getting avatarites next.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I wonder how people managed to do Salvage or Einherjar back then, since apprently lotting against others is such a problem. As far as effort is concerned getting an Odin popset was much more work than what it is to get an arch DL popset....

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See, there are these things called linkshells. And these linkshells sometimes gather for certain events, like Salvage or Einherjar. And these linkshells use a system of points to determine who gets what.

1) You're not going to find a shell that specifically devotes it's entire existence to ADL.
2) If you were lotting against 17 people in your Salvage or Einherjar shells, you were doing it wrong.
3) You pop Odin?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I wonder how people managed to do Salvage or Einherjar back then, since apprently lotting against others is such a problem. As far as effort is concerned getting an Odin popset was much more work than what it is to get an arch DL popset....

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salvage and odin only had 1 drop so it makes all the sense in the world

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

Lul...pchan realized he stuck his foot in his mouth with his "1 pt can kill multiple ADLs in one run" and reported posts...stay classy.

Can i report pchans obvious troll posts of how the ADL popset nms can be duoed/trioed without providing any proof of such a deed being possible?

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Originally Posted by Qeepel

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

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Your name made me giggle.

I'm going to get banned now ;;

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Originally Posted by Alerith

See, there are these things called linkshells. And these linkshells sometimes gather for certain events, like Salvage or Einherjar. And these linkshells use a system of points to determine who gets what.

1) You're not going to find a shell that specifically devotes it's entire existence to ADL.
2) If you were lotting against 17 people in your Salvage or Einherjar shells, you were doing it wrong.
3) You pop Odin?

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Point systems don't work. Odin is best to be done free lot. Salvage was best done in shouts.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

ADL popset nms can be duoed/trioed without providing any proof

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Don't need "proof" to show that a level 90 NM can be killed by 2 level 99 players.....For your info I've also farmed an arch DL popset like 2 weeks after neo dynamis was realeased so .. at 90.

More of your posts yet I dont see a duoed ADL popset...

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Where were your relics @ 75 cap? Owait, you didn't have one either.

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Does anything else really need to be said?
Pchan, you're always late to the party for everything, quit acting like you did everything first. You can farm tons of gil to buy heavy metal plates and relics now? Good for you, so can anyone with half a brain.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and go trio an ADL pop set and then kill it with 6 and post the video on youtube or something, or is this going to be like everything else you said you can do, and couldn't. Brewing Dragua still?

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Originally Posted by Nynja

More of your posts yet I dont see a duoed ADL popset...

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Originally Posted by Qeepel

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

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You should be even more concerned about people making posts with inaccurate information. Someone innocent may come into this topic, see what the person in question is saying, and assume that the trial is easier than it is...

Since the other level 99 trial thread was destroyed, I will say it here again: I'm sorry to everyone who is working on the level 99 relics. :( This trial will be difficult and I wish you the best of luck in completing. I hope Square Enix comes to its senses and realizes that we, as the playerbase, are not amused by these trials, and hopefully by the time the "unknown/nonrepresenting test server" information is "possibly changed" it will be for the better.

I don't understand why anything would need a test server if the idea behind it wasn't solid. It'd make more sense if SE decided on something, thought it was great but wanted feedback, posted it on the test server, got our input, then used that input to change the final product. As it stands the test server seems more like a slap in the face that we can see an update in advance. :/

6 people going to salvage and rotating zones so that everyone gets a shot at the gear they need is just like taking 17 people to dynamis 5 times for the benefit of one person guys.

So SE nuked the other thread because they know that we are right................ Just goes to show you they don't listen to us.

Hence why in the largest one of them i had suggested we all create our own threads, to not only bombard them with likes but overwhelm them with threads, seems it was a good thing i actually executed my own advice i originally was just going to see if it caught on, didn't think they would nuke away the major thread.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Can you please ban the developers and community reps? they keep derailing threads with unrelated posts, posting inflammatory announcements that provoke thousands of angry responses, and generally cause a nuisance.

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Hey....maybe this is why that topic got removed from the forums along with all of Camate's responses? They banned Camate! Well that kinda sucks since he was one of the more active responders >.>

(btw to anyone who can't already guess I'm being a smartass)

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Point systems don't work. Odin is best to be done free lot. Salvage was best done in shouts.

Don't need "proof" to show that a level 90 NM can be killed by 2 level 99 players.....For your info I've also farmed an arch DL popset like 2 weeks after neo dynamis was realeased so .. at 90.

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I'm having trouble following your logic with why point systems do not work since you haven't given any support for this stance. Since you skipped my post and focused on points, lets point out why you would be wrong in this situation.

Earlier others and myself pointed out that the relic trials do not directly compare to previous systems. You need an item more than once. Hence with a point system, if say 18 relic holders formed a static they would all have to attend every run perfectly to have the same chance at the 20 items required to upgrade to 99. Assuming they where able to farm and kill exactly one ADL every day, that would be 320 days of nonstop dynamis fun and excitement before all their pretty gold weapons attained almost ultimate potential. The lot order would be naturally established over 20 runs, with some unlucky people making up the bottom 10.

But wait! The BLM cannot come on a day where they are #1 in line! Suddenly, his spot is taken by the crafty WHM who takes her place in line. The next day the same routine starts over, but now the BLM is a spot behind in the queue, like a manic game of musical chairs where the chairs don't get removed for 46 weeks. The order continues to shuffle, and at 37 weeks the first 99 is finished after a friend sold their 'unwated' marrow for his 'unwanted' gil. Tired and exhausted, of course the proud owner of a level 99 Brovura would like nothing more than to help his fellow man for an additional 10 weeks, investing the amount of time normally required for school, a part time job, community service, spending time with family, or other mundane social activities. After doing the same event for 259 days, for a total of 518 hours, or 24.5 days or time spent of course they'll want nothing more than to help others with the same goal. After all the last ADL is finally fell, the group will have spent 640 hours or 26.6 days together. As a group they'll have a combined time logged of roughly 11520 hours or 480 days.

In short no, a point system might not be the best for ADL. As I hope to have illustrated, no system would be. It's a ridiculous trial probably cooked up by the same minds that gave us the original Pandemonium Warden and Absolute Virtue. Minds that need to be reminded what 'fun' is, or that a trial can be hard without requiring more work than an actual job.

Something you, ~chan, also do not seem to understand. Because for all your boisterous self praise, you have yet to furnish us with the dazzling proof of your accomplishments. For every argument you supplant with another, you have yet to support any.
You continue to deride anyone with a valid point while providing neither facts for you arguments nor proof of the accomplishments you claim that would support your misdirection's.

I typed all that, when 5 letters can do so much more:

POIDH.

Dude just add him to your ignore list, he's been posting here with absolute gibberish since day 1.

Waiting for this thread to be deleted since it seems now we are just going to hide any evidence that they playerbase was not happy about these trials.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Waiting for this thread to be deleted since it seems now we are just going to hide any evidence that they playerbase was not happy about these trials.

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Thats what they do with the other one, why wouldn't it work for this one too.

That really is a slap in the face. I unhappily put up with various grinds in the game, to enjoy things I do enjoy. I've defended SE even at the risk of being attacked myself. (check the VW thread) I don't mind if they ignore feedback, if they choose not to implement feedback or even explain why it won't work. But, to have anyone for any reason delete a thread of player feedback. (It should not matter if its positive or negative so long as it has constructive feedback) I've put up with a lot and usually with a smile, but for the first time ever I feel they have turned their backs to us, they have silenced us.

Also I found this on FFXIAH forums:

[They deleted my "Thread deleted?" thread and banned me.

Quote:
You have been banned for the following reason:
Your posted message is unrelated to objectives of the thread. Your login to the forum is temporarily suspended. Please try and log in at a later time. Also, please see the forum guideline again to use the forums properly and comfortably.

Date the ban will be lifted: 02-01-2012, 04:00 AM

How can my message be unrelated to objectives of the thread when the only post in the thread by me was the one opening the thread itself... so stupid. -Carbuncle.Seankp]

(If you see this please don't be mad I wanted others to see this.) Figured I'd share since he is banned. And at this point I may be next :(

Edit: I just noticed my post count has been reverted as if I never posted in the other thread, fixed format to separate AH post and mine, TY Seankp.

Edit2: The thread has been restored. I do wish however, they had said something, anything, when it was brought down, instead of leaving us to our imaginations. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions, its just hard to take a thread deletion optimistically. (especially since cleaning a thread isn't a common practice from what i've seen)

It looks like they are trying to keep all the rage in 1 thread. It seems silly they deleted the thread with 3 comrep posts in it but w/e lol. Probably because the other threads title was a bit ambiguous. Just continue the conversation here and don't get side tracked talking about thread deletion.

Well, Ill repost my thoughts on the 99 trial then (Yay saving in word document) Sorry to anyone who read it in the original setting.

A few thoughts which I hope make it to the DEVs round table.

Mythics - Thanks to the increase in Zeni per plate this trial is perfectly reasonable. For that matter given what it takes to gain mythic, and that PW is very PuGable this should be NP.

Empyrean - 60 is just fine, Empyrean deserves no sympathy given the mass difference in the effort needed to create to a level 90 version. The fact that they are on par with or superior to both counterparts in the super weapon class justifies this. Yes, 1500 plates is 150m and about what relic costs but, empyrean doesn't cost a thing to get to 90 so it’s just leveling the playing field. Additionally, I doubt any rational person would say making mythic is comparable to making empyrean. However, some do claim relic is just as easy being a player can now solo farm the currency in roughly 90 days. To this argument, understand many Empyrean can be made in PuGs within a week. When people can say things like "you just need an empy" in reference to a super weapon there is an issue, imagine telling someone at 75 "you just need a relic".

Last is relic, which right now is the only class of super weapon that is in discussion.
A few thoughts, first kills trials are not reasonable for two reasons. First, once the initial rush to complete the trial is over players earning relic after or missing the rush will be in the same boat of gathering 18 people all of whom don't need the fight. Reason two this is a bad idea is that many of the common relic are shields and melee weapons, and Arch Dynamis Lord is not something that just any combination of job can do.

Next, as far as multiple drop points go, when an item is dropped from multiple mobs (even at a reduced rate, even then do you want Merrow to be any less than 100%?) players will always seek to kill the easiest of the bunch. This brings up a second issue where in Dynamis is a timed event, ANY cause for congestion is bad. Unlike Abyssea, Dynamis has a full 24 un-adjustable re-entry. Things will be no different than trying to get empyrean NMs before the x3 adjustment. Also, I don't think a simple ??? addition will suffice as in Abyssea there are ~18 empyrean NMs and that had issues imagine what happens if every relic holder wants one NM.

Another suggestion I've seen is gain 1m exp, and while that is an impressive number this too is unrealistic. I imagine that upon implementation players will quickly find level syncs willing to be bought/help. I believe Dynamis allows the double exp of last year meaning a possible 400exp/kill plus exp bands if those work. Dynamis would become a party zone for relic holders, which among congestion, will like with kill counts cause some players to have to help without benefit. (won’t find many healers doing relic trials) Aside from that, imagine what 1m exp would do to the Magian completion message one kill and 400 messages appear. Would likely involve altering the Magian System.

Another suggestion offers 10k kills of any kind. This is as simple as one of the greatest weapons of all time being brought to maximum potential by killing EP rabbits. A bit anticlimactic I would think. (Also kill count with a shield? I assume the wielder has to get finishing blow otherwise, it just Abyssea party time)

There is no point in going over why the current method is flawed since there is 100+ posts on it just be aware that a x1 drop from ADL won't work. This is the DEVs preferred method since players who jumped the gun and took Test Server data as final started collecting them.

However, I would like to expand on this idea. What if upon defeat ADL dropped a chest? (I know what you’re thinking OH GOD VW, be at ease I have an idea) This chest has 100% chance of Merrow + whatever else they want to put in, maybe some logs or something. All other drops will go to pool just as normal.
The benefits of this are as follows:
#1 Players who may already have the drops will still be able to use them as needed.
#2 Players will not be required to play the job of the weapon they wish to upgrade.
#3 In the event that later down the line players cannot find a team to finish off ADL they still have the option to buy (unlike kill count)
#4 While it is true this leads to 18x the drop rate this also means two important things first if a player sacrifices a drop to another player by trading it they will still have to obtain one themselves later, a player not upgrading relic can still choose to sell the drop as a means of compensation for helping the run. (This will also lower merc shell prices to one reasonable of players)

As previously stated this will increase the overall count of the item and as compensation a x2 or x3 (Definately not x18) to required turn ins. This is my least favorite of my ideas.

The bigger complaint is the difficulty of ADL at 99 which borders on Kirin at 75. This leads to my preferred idea.
Merrow would be added to Fait Lux as an x1 drop. The reasoning goes a little something like this.
(SPOILERS AHEAD)

First of all, Fait Lux has a maximum of 6 man entry, and much like Dynamis a once a day limit (Unless you stock in advance) This means a smaller group needed to obtain these items while still being a moderately challenging fight. However, unlike Dynamis in the event of congestion there is no time limit on the wait area for Fait Lux. So while congestion will still be an issue it’s not wasting a once a day opportunity.

Merrows in circulation would again be able to be used, (to not screw those who have them) while still maintaining an item drop meaning the relic jobs within the BCNM would not be required.

Now I know the DEVs want to keep the mythology behind Dynamis in relic trials but, as we should know the Crystal War era we experience in WoTG is the true crystal war not the weaker universe we know in our world. Many of the relic holders existed in this time just as they do in ours but, as shown in one of the CS they were soundly beaten at the Shadow Lords hands. Up until now we have been farming the remnants of the relic trapped within Dynamis, so why not go to the original and I do mean original (not our altered world) to obtain its maximum form. Rather than the current ADL which has no story or real reason to exist within Dynamis other then "additional content"

Now, for the drawbacks.
First, the Earth time needed for upgrades is unaltered (I would assume the number needed for completion is unaltered) with exception to the fact a team of 18 relic holders can go in 3 groups cutting the time between them in 1/3. (For those big relic lss)

This still doesn't answer the problem of finding help, however, it won't be wasting a 1-3m Dynamis run and spending a campaign op is a much lower opportunity cost, I imagine finding help would be easier.

Final drawback is the need to occupy and maintain control over the Northlands. I suggest a few things, first allow any allied faction to access Fait Lux so long as Altana controls the Northlands rather than just the nation occupying it. (There is no real reason to have players fighting themselves for control, when it’s the Shadowlord who is the enemy anyway) As far as gaining the Northlands in the first place a team of ~18 can easily steal the north, if every relic holder did this it would be ours very quickly and stay that way for a long time.

Obviously, its not 100% perfect but, one or both ideas I would think are preferred over the current option.
Sorry the post is so long, and if someone had this idea already sorry, I missed it. (just think of me restating an idea if that's the case)

*Also, Insaniac in case you missed it, I apologized in the other thread for arguing the reasoning behind the placement of Merrow, as in the end it doesn't make much difference.

Empy 60 drops is not fine. It is by far the hardest trial. The drop is rare, even though you can spam it. In 60 kills of the droppers I've gotten 2 riftdross. I've shouted for days, barely able to buy any at all, as people are already done farming these 2 NM and just do not kill them much anymore. It will only be feasible if they add them to new vw tiers and make them drop like silvermirror/riftsands. Unless you bought all the dross/cinder before the final trial was announced you are likely screwed.

PW easy. ADL easy. Just sucks when you got alot of relics to upgrade. But 5 items NP. Stupid dross/cinder should be 10 or 15, not friggin 60.

Relics are around 80m now, 95 empys cost you like 200m at current prices. Relics are just as easy to make as empys, take 18 people and all go solo dynamis for a week and pool up the money and there is your relic. Same as 18 peeps all working togetehr to make an empy.