Blood Weapon: It's really bad.

Ah I assumed that's what he meant, maybe he wanted them both which may be the case, or maybe having an Apoc has made Taint's brain slowly rot!

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Originally Posted by Urteil

TRANSLATION: HI, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHATS WRONG WITH THE JOB, I'M PLAYING A WARRIOR WITH BLACK ARMOR RIGHT?

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Translation: I won't be happy until every aspect of my job is perfect and it is needed at every event because I can't be troubled to spend 6 hours leveling a 2nd job. I think people don't want DRK in abyssea because it's a bad job not because it doesn't have as many procs as WAR. I also don't understand that there is content outside of abyssea where DRK is really good.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Translation: I won't be happy until every aspect of my job is perfect and it is needed at every event because I can't be troubled to spend 6 hours leveling a 2nd job. I think people don't want DRK in abyssea because it's a bad job not because it doesn't have as many procs as WAR. I also don't understand that there is content outside of abyssea where DRK is really good.

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True dat, but that doesn't mean that, on topic, blood weapon doesn't need a boost.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

True dat, but that doesn't mean that, on topic, blood weapon doesn't need a boost.

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I would concede to a 15 second duration increase to line up with SE but it's seriously not that bad.

Whilst we're talking about 2hrs.
So does Ranger's. From Lv60~+ (or earlier) a WS outdamages the "spike dmg" 2hr.
So does Thief's. 1) it's 90% useless. 2) ranged attacks can still hit.
Dragoon's needs small modifications: changing the magic haste from Spirit Surge into either JA or Equipment haste, and making Soul/Spirit jump keep their "wyvern out" properties of 2x/3x TP and auto-crit.
Paladin's should negate magic damage too, otherwise he's not invincible.
Dnc's should lower the recast timers of their abilities.

I'm not versed enough on jobs like Blu or Pup to comment on theirs.

Doublepostmybad.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Translation: I won't be happy until every aspect of my job is perfect and it is needed at every event because I can't be troubled to spend 6 hours leveling a 2nd job. I think people don't want DRK in abyssea because it's a bad job not because it doesn't have as many procs as WAR. I also don't understand that there is content outside of abyssea where DRK is really good.

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Don't care about procs, don't care about abyssea in the holistic schema of things.

Because abyssea is not the entire game.


These are all separate of the reality that:

Blood weapon still sucks.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Dnc's should lower the recast timers of their abilities.

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It does, kind of. All Waltzes have a 6 second recast with Trance up. That's really the most useful part. You're essentially an infinite healing battery for a minute (unless you get paralyzed, stunned, or slept), and you can build some TP during that minute so you can get a Waltz or two off afterwards too. It's a desperation move that I use essentially at the same times Thieves would use Perfect Dodge.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Whilst we're talking about 2hrs.
So does Ranger's. From Lv60~+ (or earlier) a WS outdamages the "spike dmg" 2hr.
So does Thief's. 1) it's 90% useless. 2) ranged attacks can still hit.
Dragoon's needs small modifications: changing the magic haste from Spirit Surge into either JA or Equipment haste, and making Soul/Spirit jump keep their "wyvern out" properties of 2x/3x TP and auto-crit.
Paladin's should negate magic damage too, otherwise he's not invincible.
Dnc's should lower the recast timers of their abilities.

I'm not versed enough on jobs like Blu or Pup to comment on theirs.

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No worries about Blu, our shit works. :)

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Originally Posted by Yugl

Why in the world would you make OAT H2H?

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OAT was one of the better H2H weapons at 80 cap. I have 90 Vere now but I have done the Blob path and I am doing it again now for PA, its not that bad.

Cheers for the info Byth (as ever, you furry buddha you). I didn't know about dnc's timers during 2hrs, but I'd assumed from wiki that all that was changed was the TP requirement.

I thought Azure Lore was always bitched about, but wiki's version of it sounded pretty baller. Like Canada winning a game in the WRC levels of baller, even though canadians dont even know what rugby is, so I didn't want to make a comment.

Never speak of Blob path again. Also If PLD invincible let them negate magic damage, PLD mobs that spam or use Invincible instantly become annoying

DRG NMs still use Call Wyvern for a 2 hour, so SE can change the 2 hour for players and not mobs.

As a serious DRK, I just wanted to post my thoughts on the 2 hour. And my thoughts are... Our 2 hour isn't that bad, it just perhaps needs one or two small tweaks.

The numbers I use in the below are just theoretical, but I tried to make it as close to the real deal as possible. You can at least take the approximate swings per 30 seconds rather seriously since Haste isn't all that hard to figure out. If anyone feels I made a mistake, feel free to point it out.

For those that hate the 2 hour, just humor me for a second. Let's consider a scenario where a DRK is using a weapon like Caladbolg which is 430 delay, has Haste, Last Resort, 26% Haste in gear, and March. This is enough to cap haste at 80%. According to my calculations, a DRK will swing approximately 20 swings in the course of 30 seconds if they don't cast or use JAs and WSs during this time.

Now, let's assume that the DRK is hitting on average 280-350 on whatever they're fighting. The middle point is 315, so let's stick with that number. 20 multiplied by 315 is 6300 damage in 30 seconds. With our 2 hour up, that's also 6300 in cures in a 30 second period.

Let's now assume that we're using Souleater with our 2 hour. Outside Abyssea as DRK/sam in full Haste gear I have 1399 HP, so I'll be gaining an additional 139 damage per hit. So now my swings do 454 if the regular hit is 315. 454 x 20 is 9080 damage in 30 seconds, and also 9080 cured in 30 seconds.

Even in scenarios where a mob might have much higher defense, where we're hitting for a low average of 150. 150 x 20 is still 3000 damage and 3000 cured. Even in scenarios where you don't have a BRD, just Haste + Last Resort + 26% Haste gear lets you swing approximately 12 times in 30 seconds. That's 3780 damage with an average swing of 315, 5448 damage with an average swing of 454 with souleater, or 1800 with an average of 150 on high DEF mobs.

Keep in mind I didn't even take into account critical hits or the Occasional Double Damage from Aftermath if you happened to WS once before firing off Blood Weapon.

So basically, it's not like it's useless and does nothing like BLU's 2 hour did for years. With the proper gear and support it could really save your butt in an "Oh sh-" situation.

The things I would change about it are increasing it's duration from it's pathetic 30 seconds to 60 seconds at the very least. A more drastic change would be making the drain effect actually deal damage (Hit for 315, drain for 315, so you do 630 damage in total). Doubling damage may seem a bit much, but then again, it's a 2 hour ability. Even with double damage it's still probably not as damaging as Hundred Fists or a RDM chainspelling nukes.

But if SE actually did feel that giving us a new 2 hour was a good idea and stuck Blood Weapon on a lower timer, I'd be totally for it. I'd love to use Blood Weapon more often. It'd certainly make DRK a bit more fun and useful.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

. I think people don't want DRK in abyssea because it's a bad job not because it doesn't have as many procs as WAR.

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Actually its because they dont have a crit WS...proc wise they're not really behind war. Presuming you're trioing red with drk nin (with pitchfork) whm, you've still got all procs covered.

Club Seraph Strike (drk nin whm)
Dagger Cyclone, Energy Drain (nin drk both)
Great Katana Tachi: Jinpu, Tachi: Koki (nin)
Great Sword Freezebite (drk)
Katana Blade: Ei (nin)
Polearm Raiden Thrust (nin/war)
Scythe Shadow of Death (drk)
Staff Sunburst, Earth Crusher(whm)
Sword Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade (drk nin/war)

So the only difference between drk and war is drk cant use the staff WS.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Actually its because they dont have a crit WS...proc wise they're not really behind war. Presuming you're trioing red with drk nin (with pitchfork) whm, you've still got all procs covered.

Club Seraph Strike (drk nin whm)
Dagger Cyclone, Energy Drain (nin drk both)
Great Katana Tachi: Jinpu, Tachi: Koki (nin)
Great Sword Freezebite (drk)
Katana Blade: Ei (nin)
Polearm Raiden Thrust (nin/war)
Scythe Shadow of Death (drk)
Staff Sunburst, Earth Crusher(whm)
Sword Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade (drk nin/war)

So the only difference between drk and war is drk cant use the staff WS.

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I agree with this but DRK would be a more acceptable stand in for war if it had all the same procs and would be used far more often. I would just as quickly use a DRK if the procs were there. I actually have before in a pinch but the DRK didn't have a pitchfork and we got screwed on the proc. I really dont have a problem with the damage a DRK adds compared to a WAR when it's time to zerg stuff down. Everything dies fast enough even if you aren't dropping 5-6k ukko's constantly.

Maybe this is just my opinion because a lot of my emp farming was done with a war mule that was there exclusively for procs.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I really dont have a problem with the damage a DRK adds compared to a WAR when it's time to zerg stuff down. Everything dies fast enough even if you aren't dropping 5-6k ukko's constantly.

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This is how I feel in Abyssea as well. Some jobs kill stuff faster than others, but pretty much any competent melee kills fast enough for my liking. The only reason I'd harp on anyone for being one melee opposed to another would be related to procs and the absence thereof, because I hate fighting something exponentially more times than necessary.