The test server is more fun than the real game.

Wow... there's even a debate long lost debate over Tamas vs Rajas ring? Jesus... I didn't mean to incite this shenanigans. My personal preference swung towards the Tamas ring. I have enough subtle blow gear for my DNC as it stands and TP gain is is fast enough not to worry about store TP now*. People say the same about the the useless of additional MP or the other stats on the Tamas ring but whatever.

*But of course I say a mage can never have to much MP, just like I'm sure some of you will say a melee can never have to much subtle blow. Personal preferences... do they no longer exists without being judged?

Did you really just reference the MP+ on Tamas Ring as a selling point?

No. Put I put MP as a high priority to me when I'm on SMN, my main job. Next to refresh gear and Pet MAB. That's what I use it for. I don't care what others use their rings for.

At the end of the day, I don't take well to people forcing their ideals of what's great and what's useless down my throat as if the difference is that vast between the two that it'll make or break the way I play the game. Let it stop here if you're going to start saying stuff to me specifically about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

No. Put I put MP as a high priority to me when I'm on SMN, my main job. Next to refresh gear and Pet MAB. That's what I use it for. I don't care what others use their rings for.

At the end of the day, I don't take well to people forcing their ideals of what's great and what's useless down my throat as if the difference is that vast between the two that it'll make or break the way I play the game. Let it stop here if you're going to start saying stuff to me specifically about it.

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........ .... .....

try an augumented dark ring, if MP is really the only reason you use that ring on SMN dark ring has 20 mp ( this is of course assuming you have an augumented one) and a dark ring can have - pdt, mdt spell intteruption, enemy critical hit rate. just a thought...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

........ .... .....

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Oh and you and your stunned silence. I STILL refuse to use SCH as a subjob to WHM. Does that still make me a bad WHM who don't know how to play the job?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Oh and you and your stunned silence. I STILL refuse to use SCH as a subjob to WHM. Does that still make me a bad WHM who don't know how to play the job?

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The fact you defend a tamas pretty much showed me all i needed to know and as to why you refuse to sub it, so thank you, i think i got the awnser i was looking for.

i also edited the post.

Nothing is better than 9 acc if you need acc ; we are left to 5 store TP, 5 str 5 dex. 5 dex equal to 0.5 critical hitrate or 0.25% damage increase since it applie to melee only. 5 str is 2 attack and 1 fstr, so respectively 1% and 0.5% boost to melee dot, so 0.5% and 0.25% increase globally respectively. Store tp+5 for one handed DD is at best 5% increase to WS frequency so +2.5% damage up. So rajas is approximately = 3.5% damage increase girls.

Oneiros ring is about 4% because it's 2% TA. Trophy items < maths.

Notices how in the most favorable scenario (+1 fstr some +crit) rajas fails ? On mnk I highly doubt you don't cap fstr with level 90 vere, and seeing the piss poor amount of dex you get, you get zero crit either so yeah, the different is even bigger. Coombine this with the fact that proc system makes it so that you rarely ever tp as soon as you get TP...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nothing is better than 9 acc if you need acc ; we are left to 5 store TP, 5 str 5 dex. 5 dex equal to 0.5 critical hitrate or 0.25% damage increase since it applie to melee only. 5 str is 2 attack and 1 fstr, so respectively 1% and 0.5% boost to melee dot, so 0.5% and 0.25% increase globally respectively. Store tp+5 for one handed DD is at best 5% increase to WS frequency so +2.5% damage up. So rajas is approximately = 3.5% damage increase girls.

Oneiros ring is about 4% because it's 2% TA. Trophy items < maths.

Notices how in the most favorable scenario (+1 fstr some +crit) rajas fails ? On mnk I highly doubt you don't cap fstr with level 90 vere, and seeing the piss poor amount of dex you get, you get zero crit either so yeah, the different is even bigger. Coombine this with the fact that proc system makes it so that you rarely ever tp as soon as you get TP...

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Oneiros Ring
[Ring] All Races
Accuracy+3 Latent Effect: "Triple Attack"+2%
Lv. 88 WAR MNK THF BST BRD RNG SAM NIN DRG COR PUP DNC


Latent effect: "Triple Attack+2%"

Active when MP is greater than 100. Verification Needed

Is there no limit to your stupidity? the latent is only active ABOVE 100 mp. let me guess, next you will say we should have an "MP set" for the ring. right? do you even think before you post? or do you just dig your hand in a bucket pull out a pile of crap and slap it on your KB and press "post reply"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

Oneiros Ring
[Ring] All Races
Accuracy+3 Latent Effect: "Triple Attack"+2%
Lv. 88 WAR MNK THF BST BRD RNG SAM NIN DRG COR PUP DNC


Latent effect: "Triple Attack+2%"

Active when MP is greater than 100. Verification Needed

Is there no limit to your stupidity? the latent is only active ABOVE 100 mp. let me guess, next you will say we should have an "MP set" for the ring. right? do you even think before you post? or do you just dig your hand in a bucket pull out a pile of crap and slap it on your KB and press "post reply"

---

Then I'd be one who would benefit on that since I put 12/12 merits on MP. Yet epona's ring is the next option for those that do not. Also Heed Ring for those who want ACC, EVA, and subtle blow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Then I'd be one who would benefit on that since I put 12/12 merits on MP. Yet epona's ring is the next option for those that do not. Also Heed Ring for those who want ACC, EVA, and subtle blow.

---

You are definatly full of surprises. Just when i think you have told me everything, you keep bringing me gold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

You are definatly full of surprises. Just when i think you have told me everything, you keep bringing me gold.

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Why, cause I play mostly mage jobs with more use for MP for a long time now and only DNC as a melee job?

Didn't choice of play style and equipment was treated like a religion or politics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Why, cause I play mostly mage jobs with more use for MP for a long time now and only DNC as a melee job?

Didn't choice of play style and equipment was treated like a religion or politics.

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Yea, that must be it. let's go with that n_n

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

If you ever, ever, intend to hit something with a weapon, you choose Rajas Ring. Tamas Ring does nothing for you other than free up an inventory slot which you should be filling with a superior ring anyway.

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Just like you choose a Suppa even if you don't use a dual wield job? Seriously, this mentality is why MMORPGs have been going the casual route.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

Yea, that must be it. let's go with that n_n

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Your patronizing is staggering. ~_~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Just like you choose a Suppa even if you don't use a dual wield job? Seriously, this mentality is why MMORPGs have been going the casual route.

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What, they aren't even the same thing. If you have a Dual wield job you even use some of the time you pick Suppa. If you don't well enjoy w/e earring you damn well like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

enjoy w/e (insert) you damn well like.

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This is what an MMORPG is about which is exactly why MMOs are going the casual route to kill the whole "omg you better be this efficient or gtfo!" mentality.

There's nothing wrong with choosing a tamas if 90% of your jobs is of the mage variety. You decide to use your only DD job? This is why sidegrades and alternatives exist in these kinds of games (which XI is full of, by the way.) Why should one choose something that only benefits 1/12 jobs they likely play?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Your patronizing is staggering. ~_~

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It's like trying teach somone how to bounce a ball, you tell them the proper way to do it is to push the ball down and let it come back up to your hand and push it back down, it's a simple, and understandable concept. but they keep kicking the ball foward, and they tell you "well it moves faster this way" this method clearly is not effective to anyone but them in thier mind, even tho everyone around this person is telling them that it's not the proper way to bounce it, and what you're doing is not effective in any way, but they keep kicking it..

at that point you do 2 things, you let them keep kicking the ball and give up? or you smile at them and give them a lolipop saying "have fun"

this is my way of telling you in a very subtle way.

Because if you were serious about meleeing Rajas would do more for you than Tamas ever will. Not to mention your figures are impossible since I only recognize 5 mage jobs. 75% of my jobs are mages and Rajas is still better than Tamas (granted one is BLU).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Because if you were serious about meleeing Rajas would do more for you than Tamas ever will. Not to mention your figures are impossible since I only recognize 5 mage jobs. 75% of my jobs are mages and Rajas is still better than Tamas (granted one is BLU).

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Doesn't really count, since BLU makes use of both fighting + casting to maximize its potential. As well, I don't think regular mage jobs have physical spells.

Also, I only mentioned End-of-Storyline rewards, why did y'all have to get so.... butthurt?
It's in no way relevant to the thread topic, so what do you say we fix that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Because if you were serious about meleeing Rajas would do more for you than Tamas ever will. Not to mention your figures are impossible since I only recognize 5 mage jobs. 75% of my jobs are mages and Rajas is still better than Tamas (granted one is BLU).

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It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

It's like trying teach somone how to bounce a ball, you tell them the proper way to do it is to push the ball down and let it come back up to your hand and push it back down, it's a simple, and understandable concept. but they keep kicking the ball foward, and they tell you "well it moves faster this way" this method clearly is not effective to anyone but them in thier mind, even tho everyone around this person is telling them that it's not the proper way to bounce it, and what you're doing is not effective in any way, but they keep kicking it..

at that point you do 2 things, you let them keep kicking the ball and give up? or you smile at them and give them a lolipop saying "have fun"

this is my way of telling you in a very subtle way.

---

The... hell? What I read out of that poor analogy is you saying "This is how you play basketball" but me going "I want to play soccer." That's what I got out of it. There's more than one way of playing a job through the game. There's more than one equipment that has certain benefits that tailors to the choice of playing style a person wants. Not to mention there's still the inevitable pros AND cons to choices that does not put one over the other persay.

You're basically taking a dump on diversity even though the diversity isn't all that greater than the other in contrast.

I remember when MMORPGs were about having fun..I guess that's why Rift got popular, it may be a shitty blatant clone of WoW, but it's fun nonetheless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

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She has WAR and Tamas can be easily replaced via AH options. You can't replace a Rajas (the STR/DEX/STP and SB rolled into one ring is one of a kind).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Then I'd be one who would benefit on that since I put 12/12 merits on MP. Yet epona's ring is the next option for those that do not. Also Heed Ring for those who want ACC, EVA, and subtle blow.

---

Epona's Ring:
All Races
"Double Attack"+3% "Triple Attack"+3%
LV 89 MNK THF BST RNG NIN BLU COR PUP DNC

If my war, drk, sam or drg could equip it, rest assured I would be using it. Together with Rajas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

Is there no limit to your stupidity? the latent is only active ABOVE 100 mp. let me guess, next you will say we should have an "MP set" for the ring. right? do you even think before you post? or do you just dig your hand in a bucket pull out a pile of crap and slap it on your KB and press "post reply"

---

Is this your way to admit that oneiros is better than rajas when you have 100 MP ? I'm not sure. Please enlighten us. Getting 100 MP is pretty easy, for instance MP merits (which half the players have). Now if you are the kind of person that doesn't want to push his char to the limit, why are you even arguing ? The question is not if rajas is the best ring for TPing out of the rings that vortex can afford ; the question is a general question about "is rajas the best". No it is not. Simple. It has shiny stats but tripple attack is also great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

She has WAR and Tamas can be easily replaced via AH options. You can't replace a Rajas (the STR/DEX/STP and SB rolled into one ring is one of a kind).

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You missed the part where she said WHM main... where MND +5 and Enmity -3 would be more useful to the job used the most. Being WHM main and the frequent of WHM use in parties, I'm sure she's on WHM A LOT more than WAR.

If you want to determine how useful it really is, look at what they spend the most time on and be as effective in that area as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

---

Yup. Icesoul Ring, Aquasoul Ring, countless MP+ Rings, and even Enmity- rings. All available on the AH, all better than Tamas Ring.

Rajas gives you a package of stats that all get used simultaneously to great effect. Tamas saves you an inventory slot or two. Rajas is the better option. Every time.

open your mind. MP merit, what is it? the difference is too small for me to bother getting oneiros ring and MP merits, imo, but the fact is it is better period. Whether you're ready to get MP merit or not is up to you. Personally I wont bother. And yea as mentioned several times, for dualwielders, and MNKs, the 5 STP has taken a serious hit since the introduction of all the multi hit gears. Why? since people dont seem to graps game mechanics on here, ill explaine: high multi ht rate means that in one delay period, you can do up to 7 hits. Consequently you will very often have over tp ( tp not at 100 but 120, say0. This makes 5stp almost useless.

Im not even talking about abyssea ( nobody cares about epeening your build in abyssea today). No you are not caped accuracy in many WV for example, therefore oneiros annulet> rajas. For 2handers its differrent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

The... hell? What I read out of that poor analogy is you saying "This is how you play basketball" but me going "I want to play soccer." That's what I got out of it. There's more than one way of playing a job through the game. There's more than one equipment that has certain benefits that tailors to the choice of playing style a person wants. Not to mention there's still the inevitable pros AND cons to choices that does not put one over the other persay.

You're basically taking a dump on diversity even though the diversity isn't all that greater than the other in contrast.

---

You didn't get the message, and you just proved you never will, in this case ignorance is bliss. for your sake, we'll just leave it here.

now then..

Tamas is 5 INT 5 MND 30 mp -3 enimity

let's break it down.

5 INT there are rings with 6-7 INT out 1 option is they are buyable, other option is they are free if you are lucky with gold chests, obviously the 6-7 is greater then the 5, so that just made the Stat parts of the ring comeplty useless.

5 MND (see above) actutlly you can't get 6-7 MND rings in a chest but they aren't that expensive. (aqua ring for example)

now with that out of the way let's look at the 30 mp. it's....30 mp.. their are NUMOUROUS rings that give way more then 30 mp and is cheap/easy to get namly bifrost ring. which is 70 mp. now most people with commen sense will realize 30 mp is pretty much useless the moment you cast a spell. unless you plan on standing there and refreshing it back, so that part is out.

The last part the -3 enimity....

seriously? do i even NEED to explain this part? if - enimity is truely that much of an issue troppers ring is -4 enimity and cost like 2k ISP or something. there is also a - 5 enimity ring (altho it has -4 mnd)

so..all those stats are easily replaced with clearly superior choices.

the ONLY reason you would get one is to save space. which is not really a valid reason to pick that ring for inferior stats. as the only useful thing you would get is the -3 enimity and 30 mp.

So really. why exactly is this ring useful?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's not impossible, considering my cousin plays as WHM main, SCH backup and RDM as a solo job. The only DD job she has is WAR. So I guess Raja's is still better for her despite the majority of her jobs are mages?

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Yes, it is. My jobs are Rdm (technically main but never on it inside abyssea) Whm and Blu, and Rajas is still better for 3 (don't melee on whm much) of them than Tamas is.

5DEX is nearly always .5%~5% critical hit rate, math is fun.

Edit: Also, lol1hweaponsinVW

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

You missed the part where she said WHM main... where MND +5 and Enmity -3 would be more useful to the job used the most. Being WHM main and the frequent of WHM use in parties, I'm sure she's on WHM A LOT more than WAR.

If you want to determine how useful it really is, look at what they spend the most time on and be as effective in that area as possible.

---

Even with a WHM main, the Tamas is a poor choice in its current state.

Augmented Dark Rings as your idle rings are a better choice as the combination of PDT/MDT- can be useful in situations where you are forced to eat an AOE or two for the sake of utilizing Misery or putting up Barspells, a combination of MP rings like Bifrost + Serket is better if you want to max MP whore and 6-7MND rings are available and superior for feebs/cures.

All the Tamas does is save slots. The second you delve into DD classes, the Rajas just comes far and away the best choice you can utilize in that slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Even with a WHM main, the Tamas is a poor choice in its current state.

Augmented Dark Rings as your idle rings are a better choice as the combination of PDT/MDT- can be useful in situations where you are forced to eat an AOE or two for the sake of utilizing Misery or putting up Barspells, a combination of MP rings like Bifrost + Serket is better if you want to max MP whore and 6-7MND rings are available and superior for feebs/cures.

All the Tamas does is save slots. The second you delve into DD classes, the Rajas just comes far and away the best choice you can utilize in that slot.

---

You're wasting your time trying to explain WHM to this person. it's a battle you won't win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

You didn't get the message, and you just proved you never will, in this case ignorance is bliss. for your sake, we'll just leave it here.

now then..

Tamas is 5 INT 5 MND 30 mp -3 enimity

let's break it down.

5 INT there are rings with 6-7 INT out 1 option is they are buyable, other option is they are free if you are lucky with gold chests, obviously the 6-7 is greater then the 5, so that just made the Stat parts of the ring comeplty useless.

5 MND (see above) actutlly you can't get 6-7 MND rings in a chest but they aren't that expensive. (aqua ring for example)

now with that out of the way let's look at the 30 mp. it's....30 mp.. their are NUMOUROUS rings that give way more then 30 mp and is cheap/easy to get namly bifrost ring. which is 70 mp. now most people with commen sense will realize 30 mp is pretty much useless the moment you cast a spell. unless you plan on standing there and refreshing it back, so that part is out.

The last part the -3 enimity....

seriously? do i even NEED to explain this part? if - enimity is truely that much of an issue troppers ring is -4 enimity and cost like 2k ISP or something. there is also a - 5 enimity ring (altho it has -4 mnd)

so..all those stats are easily replaced with clearly superior choices.

the ONLY reason you would get one is to save space. which is not really a valid reason to pick that ring for inferior stats. as the only useful thing you would get is the -3 enimity and 30 mp.

So really. why exactly is this ring useful?

---

I'll counter with Rajas's break down.

STR +5
For on handed weapons, that only equals 2 ATK. 3 ATK for two handed weapons. Obviously, there are other rings that out classes that.

DEX +5
If you're going for crit damage on a job that doesn't rely on crit or low chance of crit damaging, why bother? ACC is not much of an issue lately if you actually skill up your job. With all the gear swamping and more gear that offers a lot of ACC, it's not as great.

Store TP +5
This is still great for one handed weapons, but for duel wielders with multi attack weapons, most don't notice the effect of store tp if it even procs because it's always gained back in rapid succession.

Subtle Blow +5
Heed Ring gives STB +7 plus the 3 ACC that the dex would give from rajas. Nevermind the slew of gear in other slots that give STB too, like Toreoro Torque with 9 eva and STB.

Rajas ring is as outdated as Tamas ring at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

I'll counter with Rajas's break down.

STR +5
For on handed weapons, that only equals 2 ATK. 3 ATK for two handed weapons. Obviously, there are other rings that out classes that.

DEX +5
If you're going for crit damage, ACC is not much of an issue lately if you actually skill up your job. With all the gear swamping and more gear that offers a lot of ACC, it's not as great.

Store TP +5
This is still great for one handed weapons, but for duel wielders with multi attack weapons, most don't notice the effect of store tp if it even procs because it's always gained back in rapid succession.

Subtle Blow +5
Heed Ring gives STB +7 plus the 3 ACC that the dex would give from rajas. Nevermind the slew of gear in other slots that give STB too, like Toreoro Torque with 9 eva and STB.

Rajas ring is as outdated as Tamas ring at this point.

---

It is clear you have no understanding in any way of meele jobs, there is no point in even trying with you anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

It is clear you have no understanding in any way of meele jobs, there is no point in even trying with you anymore.

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Because I use mage jobs, of course. However what am I gaining out of this is the same notion you have towards tamas ring. Rajas ring saves space on having to have other. Only other than that, the benefits can be felt across all melee jobs, however minuscule they may be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

I'll counter with Rajas's break down.
Store TP +5
This is still great for one handed weapons, but for duel wielders with multi attack weapons, most don't notice the effect of store tp if it even procs because it's always gained back in rapid succession.

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Lol what did I just read?!?!

Store..TP.. proc?

So like just how haste takes time to proc right?

edit: Tamoa was faster on the draw.

ITT: StoreTP takes time to proc

Meh, thinking of conserve mp. Whatever, my argument still stands.