I think they are going to improve the buffs to better standards since both Bard and Corsair has better buffs than us. Maybe improve the haste % from Hastaga or increase the stats/debuffs from almost all of Fenrir's BPsQuote:
Originally Posted by Razushu
Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner
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08-09-2011, 05:43 AMKorpg
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08-09-2011, 11:45 AMEspionis
Well after playing summoner 6 years ago, then quitting, i finally started back playing again. upon my return I had to start fresh, while remember old gameplay and learning about all the new things added. And i have recently reached 90 smn and come to notice something in abyssea. Summoner is not able to Proc colors for NMs in abyssea thru avatar blood pacts, and i think allowing this would add to summoner's usefulness in abyssea groups. If possible to allow avatar Blood Pacts to proc the colors necesary for NMs or even allow the right lights needed in abyssea areas. I feel the Blood Pacts should function on same par as Spells from lets say a BLM or a WS from a Melee for abyssea battles.
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08-09-2011, 09:11 PMRazushuWhile it would be nice to get some procs on SMN, it's not that big an issue. If I feel like seal farming on SMN, I'll either solo(if I'm bored with an afternoon to waste:D), or organize a run myself and /sh for a NIN, a BLM and a WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Espionis
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08-10-2011, 02:37 AMMalamasalaI've already given up on them long ago. I just keep saying they should be fixed because they should, not because I think they will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
Still highly annoyed at how SE had gotten letters from me over years and then they add Corsair, sees nobody uses it for support in 2 months, and just buff the potency of all rolls...
2 months of being unpopular and they got a buff. SMN at the time being at 4 years, and got nothing. I honestly believe a Summoner killed the CEO's wife or something. I've never seen anything being treated worse than SMN. (But admittedly I've not seen starving children in africa or jews at concentration camps) -
08-10-2011, 02:45 AMKorpgStop being so negative. SMN has been forgotten before, but not now. SMN's roll has been a lot different than what you want, but that doesn't mean that everyone plays the same as you, or have the same opinions as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamasala
I think SMN is fine as it is, and improvements are just that, improvements. -
08-10-2011, 08:33 AMCamate
We got a chance to speak to the main summoner himself on the topic of Blood Pacts.
• MP Consumption
The MP cost for Blood Pact: Ward abilities are set rather high because the effects they grant are AoE; however, they are designed to elicit a higher level of benefit when used to support a party.
• Effect duration
As we’re sure you’re aware, depending on the level of your summoning skill, various enhancement bonuses are added to your Blood Pacts. These bonuses make it so ultimately you will see a very noticeable difference in effect duration when compared to other magic spells and abilities. If your skill isn’t fully leveled and you feel that the duration is too short, we recommend raising it up as you will experience quite a significant increase. With the upcoming level cap increase we will be extending the effect duration even further.
• Effect
In regards to magic/abilities that elicit a similar effect to Blood Pacts, we believe that Blood Pacts have significantly high stats, effect duration included. However, with the level cap increase from 75 to 90, these stats have increased further and we would like to look into adjusting the areas where the balance is off. Please continue let us know your feedback especially for the Blood Pacts you feel need adjustments. -
08-10-2011, 08:40 AMAlhanelem
The effects of the blood pacts themselves are less of a problem compared to the blood pact timers. No other job is as heavily restricted by a recast timer as summoner. In today's metagame, even the minimum blood pact recast is like an eternity. It wasn't quite as bad at 75 (though still a problem), but as the levels have increased, the problem has grown more severe.
A few Ward issues though:
Ifrit's Crimson Howl (Warcry) is the shortest buff in the SMN arsenal, and considering its effect isn't that potent, its duration should either be increased significantly, or/and be its own distinct status effect and allow it to stack with Warrior's Warcry effect.
Titan's Earthen Ward: Inferior to Stoneskin, so no one wants you to use it. If a white mage is present, this also often prevents the stoneskin benefit from Cure from taking place. -
08-10-2011, 08:59 AMPantheraThat's fair, but raising Summoning Magic Skill is no easy task. Other jobs can spam away very quickly, sometimes on a mob that's safely sleeping. Combat skills like Hand-to-Hand or Katana level quickly because the player can attack twice on one round, and either can get skillups. Summoner cannot do this, as Blood Pact has a lengthy timer that cannot be circumvented. Standing around Summoning and Releasing for hours on end is just not the height of stimulating game-play. Can this be made easier and faster?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Ifrit's Crimson Howl could use a boost. Summoner is just not my go-to job for buffing a party, other than certain obvious moves. Crimson Howl should be a substantial Attack bonus like Minuet or Chaos Roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Fenrir's Ecliptic Howl could use a boost as well. This move should be like Madrigal or Hunter's Roll. The problem with the move is that the minimum values are too low to be useful. I'm fine with it being tied to moon phase... but during Full and New Moon, the bonuses should be huge.
Could the speed of Hastega be tied to summoning magic skill? I'm going to bet that Red Mage is gonna get Haste II sooner or later, and it would be nice if Summoner could keep up. -
08-10-2011, 09:37 AMSoundwave• MP ConsumptionQuote:
Originally Posted by Camate
I never saw a issue with MP, I believe this weighs a bigger scale from the summoners play style, I find that summoners in a support party only try to use Rage pacts as well and then they complain that they are running low on mp. Just because we are versatile does not mean we can split both ends unless we have the MP support from Refresh etc. to back that up.
• Effect duration/• Effect
Being a veteran summoner/HNMLS/been playing since release date. Its obvious summoning skill is hard to level even after new skill raise adjustment. I'm confident that many summoner's on here are very close to cap for level 90 or are already at the cap, I would believe that many of the complaints are legitimate due to effect duration being so low....
-Warcry: Extend the duration or make it scale correctly with a warriors warcry job ability.
-Glittering Ruby: Allow the summoner to chose which attribute to increase based off of type of party you are in possible?
-Noctoshield: Please increase duration/%damage taken off.
• Other
New JA that allows the summoner to change the moon phase/time of day for themselves only....for Fenrir/Diabolos to avoid being so random, to give better incentive for support.
(Or allow the JA to give maximum effect.)
And last...
Allow a system message to be displayed when an Avatar effect on the mob has worn off. Its a pain guessing when the effect wears off, when you try to re-apply it and just waste MP(Well....wasting BP timer is more like it.) to see the effect resist you. I understand this is because the effect is from the avatar and not from the player it does not say this...however this should be considered. Much like the system message when a player triggers a ! his/her name is displayed. -
08-10-2011, 10:58 AMAirgetI think I see what you're getting at, where perhaps instead of a static 1min recast for each BP used perhaps they could consider the recast be based on the BP used rather then always make it a 1min recast. Perhaps warcry could be 30 secs with stoneskin being 45 secs or something to that effect. But of course BP- gear would still effect those timers so if you had -15 BP gear those two would be 15 and 30 second recast on wards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
As for BP Rage though I think those should remain as a static 1min recast since they are basically 1min TP moves in essence, so in that case I think the only thing that should effect that timer would be the -BP gear. Though for BP Ward I think SMN would see some benefits if they give unique timers based on each enhancement used. -
08-10-2011, 01:16 PMNala
im not really a summoner myself but this is one idea ive always had on the skilling up issues, in addition to gaining skill from pacts and the action of summoning why cant SMN gain magic skill while thier pet melees? i could be wrong but that might help a bit perhaps? sorry if the idea itself isn't as appealing to actual smn's >.<
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08-10-2011, 04:18 PMMightyg
I think perhaps the avatars spells like shiva's blizzard IV could be put on another blood pact job ability as well. This would give the summoner one additional, but limited damage option. Assuming they add tier V spells to the avatars, I think a 1 min cooldown "Blood Pact: Invocation" would go a long way in having summoners keep up with their mage counterparts.
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08-10-2011, 04:36 PMKraggyHow about providing a VIABLE way to raise SMN skill while actually PLAYING the game, rather than sitting outside Al Zahbi/Port Jeuno/nameyourMHofchoice and using a bot to summon/rest while you're AFK at work/school/whatever?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Seriously, leveling SMN skill is a joke and a PITA at the same time. -
08-10-2011, 05:50 PMCrossarius
What annoys me the most when thinking about SMN Skill is the fact, that SMN is the only Job that becomes weakened everytime it levels up.
With bonus effects coming from skill OVER the cap, with every new lvl you gain, you lose your bonus as you now have less skill over the cap until you cap it again.
This design just doesn't make sense and I think it was the more lazy solution to make the skill more useful in any way.
Can't we just have fixed potency tiered to actual skill lvls rather than skill over the cap? So having much additional skill results in higher potency but lvling up doesn't weaken any of your buffs. 19 other Jobs have it that way.
Though I like that they are looking into buffs that don't seem balanced anymore.
Titan's Stoneskin should be tiered to smn skill not block an always fixed amount.
BLU got the emptyness SPell that gives 7-8 Blink Shadows. Why not improve on Garuda's Aerial Armor and make it superior to the single self-target Spell and give it more blink shadows too?
Also I agree with Soundwave that BP:wards that depend on day/moon phases are too weak even with full bonus from the moon/day. Hitting a 11 on a COR Roll is much easier (albeit semi-random) and gives much better buffs than hitting the most potent moon/day phase which is not as easy and you have not way to control that. -
08-10-2011, 08:30 PMKenthedeviantAgain, this is a very cryptic statement, but are you implying that some blood pacts are now TOO powerful and need to be lowered? If so, I'd like to say that this is INSANITY because of the fact that virtually any DD can COMPLETELY outdamage us in a matter of seconds due to crippling recast timers on our blood pacts. Even with IDEAL atmas that allow us to deal ONE bp with impressive dmg, a BLM can cast two spells of different element in a row without pause for twice the damage our BP did, while we're waiting 60 second for our timer to even be ready again. Now, I'm not saying that we should nerf BLM (or any other DD for that matter) but the reality is that no matter how "powerful" a BP has become, it simply is not even in the same LEAGUE as other DD jobs witht he proper atma equipped because of long recast timers, so lowering their effect would be RIDICULOUS. Anyway, I realize that SE is planning to give us the new job ability to spend MP to lower recast timers "once" per use at the cost of MP, but I'm assuming that this will probably be a 5-10 minute recast timer itself, meaning that we get ONE extra BP every 5-10min (assuming MP permits this as well). Well, on a 10min timer, and a 60 sec BP timer, this means only a 10% increase in BP use. A 10% increase in BP use means only 10% more dmg overall, which still doesnt even get us CLOSE to being in the same league as other DD's, making this new job ability relatively useless, and this is STILL considering we have the MP to allow constant use of this ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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08-10-2011, 10:29 PMRazushuCOR and BRD's buffs are free, AoE too, and stronger to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Could we get some kind of uniformity in duration, buffs last 3~5 minutes, after the skill bonus is applied which can make it a pain to keep a cycle up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Our buffs can last only nearly as long as BRD and COR buffs, cost us MP and are much weaker in most cases. Some of our Wards need to be scaled up according to level(Noctoshield, Frost Armor, Earthen Ward etc.), they see less use in parties because of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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08-11-2011, 02:04 AMRakshaQuote:
Originally Posted by Kenthedeviant
No they are saying that magic/abilities that do the same things as blood pacts are overpowered, so they are looking at adjusting the bloodpacts. That's how I read it, but I agree it isnt worded well. -
08-11-2011, 02:05 AMMalamasalaIt seems to me that the developer is slightly out of touch with reality. He seem to consider Wards a "Summoner buff" that is expensive when used solo, but cheap when used in a party. Pretty much like we have stoneskin as a spell, but on a third party character. Following this logic he thinks Summoners should pay MP for wards. After all WHM and BLM and RDM and all pay for their spells.Quote:
The MP cost for Blood Pact: Ward abilities are set rather high because the effects they grant are AoE; however, they are designed to elicit a higher level of benefit when used to support a party.
However, the player base look at these things as support abilities, not spells. We think of it as a Bards song, or a Corsairs roll, and feel unfairly treated when they get them free and we have to pay MP.
The solution to this is either:
A) Put wards on the summoner himself, not on the avatars. This will make us accept them as spells, and accept MP costs.
B) Keep wards on avatars, reduce costs to match that of a BRD or COR using support abilities.
I'd like to point out that the reason avatars are stronger than other jobs, is because we don't get any armors or songs or rolls to enhance them. While it is true my avatar deals like 800 damage naked, and a WAR would never match it, you have to be aware that they just get super buffed and end up doing 500% the damage of an avatar in the end.Quote:
In regards to magic/abilities that elicit a similar effect to Blood Pacts, we believe that Blood Pacts have significantly high stats, effect duration included. However, with the level cap increase from 75 to 90, these stats have increased further and we would like to look into adjusting the areas where the balance is off. Please continue let us know your feedback especially for the Blood Pacts you feel need adjustments.
The following pacts need a boost though:
Lunar Cry: Can't have buffs depend on moon phase. While "clever" it simply means you have abilities that are useless for hours if not days in real life. Just imagine yourself that your WAR can't do fell cleave because today is Thursday, but come Friday he can use it again.
Lunar Roar: Needs bigger range (you can hardly hit 2 monsters back to back).
Ecliptic Growl: Same as Lunar Cry.
Ecliptic Howl: Same as Lunar Cry.
Crimson Howl: 8% attack for 30 seconds is too weak/short. Try 10% for 15 min or 25% for 1 min.
Flaming Crush: Deals less damage than all other avatars, unless the monster has zero fire resistance.
Rock Buster: Binds target... on a melee ability... completely useless. Swap it around to slow or something and put Bind on one of the ranged attacks.
Earthen Armor: Make it say when it reduces damage. Some !! message like "resist!! monster X's attack was absorbed partly by Y's Earthen Armor"
Slowga: Pointless pact. It would be better to replace this with another name and have it deal AOE damage + slow.
Tidal Roar: Almost perfect, but since it isn't called "Attack down" it might as well do some additional damage.
Aerial Armor: Make it 3 Ninjutsu shadows instead of white magic shadows. This would allow it to help people subbing NIN and also give guaranteed instead of 50% evasion.
Frost Armor: Damage should raise with level. At 95 these should do at least 50 damage.
Sleepga: This should have sleep II priority since it lasts so long. In other words, it should overwrite lullaby and sleep. Range needs to be longer, since 5 distance is terrible compared to BLMs 20 distance. (Range on pact, not range of AOE effect). Should also be ICE based, and the single ice based sleep spell in the game.
Rush: Should be slightly stronger. It is silly that hitting all 5 slaps only results in same damage as a Titan hitting once.
Shock Strike: Should have no ready animation. Just instant stun attack.
Rolling Thunder: Should scale with level. About Ifrit's enfire damage at Ifrit's enfire ward level.
Lightning Armor: Should stun 1 second and do scaled damage. 50ish around level 90-95.
Nightmare: Should have a 25 HP DoT effect, but attacks should wake a sleeping monster.
Noctoshield: Needs to scale with level. At 90 it should be at least -30 damage taken, and I say at least.
DreamShroud: Not based on time of day. While again it is really clever and witty, it is as bad as saying a COR can only roll 11 at midnight. It just doesn't work.
Night Terror: x2 damage multiplier on slept enemies.
Further most jobs would benefit from some Thunderspark like abilities to deal damage in AOE and debuffs. I already suggested some for Levi from his old wards.
And I think that is the "only" adjustments needed to pacts. Hardly any at all, is it? -
08-11-2011, 03:28 AMVagrua
I'm not sure if this was thrown out the window, but I remember reading about an idea of all blood pacts having their own separate timers being scaled down from low level bps having lower recast timers than higher ones. This or something similar to the charge system that BST has with Ready commands sounds nice to me.
As for summoning magic skill up, I remember reading somewhere that they were gonna make it easier to skill up in the coming updates. My memory could be off though. x_x -
08-11-2011, 04:27 AMRazushuWas it something similar to my idea? I posted this in the Summoner forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrua
I think they did I got for 80-90 skillcap fairly easily, it definitely wasn't the soul shatering experience capping skill at 75 was, but then again I went from lvl85-90 fighting various NMs in Abyssea so that may have contributed to my ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razushu
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08-11-2011, 04:35 AMOrsonThis makes a lot of sense to me. Avatar melee attacks and BPs should give skill ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nala
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08-11-2011, 04:57 AMMalamasala
Personally I got to 90 from 85 and gained about 3 skill. Then it was simply a few skill now and then over the months and about 3-4 months later it was capped through normal use. It just sucks that those 3-4 months you are "weakened" due to skill only counting over cap, not total count.
My staff is still uncapped though, and I usually only get some 0.5 per night I do some engaging. Think I'm like 7 off cap. -
08-11-2011, 05:01 AMSoundwaveAvatar BP's give skill up as well now. I would like to see melee attack give skill ups but because its called "summoning magic" I don't think they will go that way with it....would be nice.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Orson
I can't find update notes to the update for smn when we got skill per BP can anybody find? -
08-11-2011, 05:02 AMRazushuHow did you level from 85-90? If you don't mind me asking, because I capped it fairly easily took about a month of my usual play time(2-3hrs a night) to cap my skills 85-90.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamasala
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08-11-2011, 05:13 AMMalamasala
Don't remember the details. Quick running out to new Abyssea zones I think, killing pots in Grauberg for uhm, I actually don't know why we did it, but that is what we did. Got to about 88 before I went to bed I think. Then something similar the following day up to 90. Basically just melee the pots with my SMN and staff while clicking off Mountain Busters I believe.
Then the skills came in now and then during +2 upgrade item farming and such. But you know the drill. Trigger first, then kill fast, and during kill fast you get off like 3 BPs at most.
One could assume my skill would go slightly faster if I spammed wards, but I tend to not use them when not needed.
I think it would make sense if you got sporadic skill ups while under avatar's favor though. Since you constantly use your skill to enhance the aura effect. Best part would be parking outside Jeuno and getting free skillups all night.Quote:
Avatar BP's give skill up as well now. I would like to see melee attack give skill ups but because its called "summoning magic" I don't think they will go that way with it....would be nice.....
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08-11-2011, 05:21 AMDallas
Hmmm. Same schooling, different year. SMN was designed for groups. Perhaps you guys shouldn't focus on skillups and let SE know why no one wants you in a group...
The moment you are invited is the moment you start getting skillups. -
08-11-2011, 05:38 AMKorpgMy SMN magic skill took about a week to do, it is amazing how much skillups you gain from soloing T mobs and NMs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamasala
My staff skill is capped also, mainly because of WAR though. Blunt procs really help with the skillups. Can get about 1~2 skill just from finding blunt and red at the same time. -
08-11-2011, 05:38 AMKorpgLet us know when you get invited to one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
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08-11-2011, 06:06 AMDallas
Don't involve yourself with SMN business, K. SMN skill and buffs are not related to war or DG.
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08-11-2011, 06:10 AMRazushu
Guys please we finally have a thread SE is definitely listening to. Try not to derail with pointless bickering. For the sake of Summoners everywhere, take it somewhere else.
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08-11-2011, 06:25 AMDallas
SE is welcome to ignore anything I say to K. It rarely involves Smn.
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08-11-2011, 06:34 AMRazushuMaybe they will maybe they won't but can't you try to say it to him in a different thread, if the reps start having to wade through a flame war they'll stop bothering to read the real suggestions here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
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08-11-2011, 06:49 AMDallas
Believe me, if I could convince him to seek acceptance from other WAR, you'd be levelling staff, raz.
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08-11-2011, 07:02 AMKorpg
Dallas, we had a good thread going until you came here, then, BAM, you screw everything up.
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08-11-2011, 07:06 AMPyrobunny
my staff needs work but my summoning magic is capped i soloed it all the way to 75 back in the day so i never had a problem with it not at cap.
a good way to skill up at 90 is use the ducal guard, mounted champ, and MM atma and go fight IC's
other smn solo friendly NM's are great for skill ups also but IC's are the best
on another note SE please give smn all the staff ws or make wands that are as good as the trial staves. -
08-11-2011, 07:48 AMRazushuTrying to derail the one Summoner thread SE is noticeably paying attention to? WTH man, you've honestly just convinced me you don't have SMN leveled, this thread is our current best shot at voicing our problems/fears and requests for Summoner. You must either hate SMN or are just afraid that if they actually fix this jobit will make your playstyle look even weaker than it does when compared to real DDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
Please, I'm asking nicely. If you want to troll, flame, push your agenda take it to a different thread you'll be just as heard in the general job adjustments thread without doing any damage to Summoner. -
08-11-2011, 03:38 PMTsukino_KajiUnless the effect can go over 100 points, it wont be worth the merits. It would be better off being bart of avatar's favor and an effect based on skill level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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08-11-2011, 03:43 PMDallas
Raz, best shot at being heard? Seriously, do you know anything about Mala? If there is anything wrong with SMN, Mala has said it more times than you have posts. SE has heard all complaints a thousand times, in at least 2 different languages, on a dozen forums, at a dozen conventions, in countless interviews, and likely in every "job update" board meeting.
SE has also told us many times that we are a GROUP JOB. By design, our wards are expensive. By design, we were allowed to buff NPCs in Campaign. We asked for better AOE ranges, they didn't flinch at giving it to us.
I disagree with Mala. Some things, like spirits, were never meant for a competent end-game SMN to continue using. What we do have is powerful, for a hybrid job. We are an moderate DD, moderate buffer, moderate healer, all wrapped up in one. We are designed to have a limited 3-part role in a party.
Most SMN take the job halfway. Presumably you aren't the healer, so lets say you are buffing 4 other DD (the most you can hope to buff as SMN). If you and your pet attacked as well, you'd be buffing 6 DD, not 4. 50% more buffing potential, twice the damage. Not good enough? Assault generates pettp, which can be used for AOE cures. Garuda caps at 507HP on an off day, 248, I believe, is at 0 pettp. /SCH can buff that as well. 50% more buffing, double damage, double healing. Not good enough? Get to this level, then we'll talk.
SE isn't going to find a band-aid to fix SMN. It's not broken, it's slow. It's not even that slow...
And to answer my own question: Why do SMN not get invited to groups? Because every other job gets a steady supply of gear that improves damage/buffs/cures. SMN gets a steady supply of gear that improves MP sustainment. MP doesn't actually *do* anything. It doesn't cure faster. It doesn't kill faster. Put it on a slow job, on a player who would rather use the subjob, and you have a subpar subjob, not a SMN. There's no benefit to inviting a /WHM. In short, players failed SMN.
I know you want to control the content that SE reads. Maybe somehow you think if SE doesn't see melee, they won't know about melee. Too late. They won't be uninventing Myrkr, and it won't magically get harder to obtain. Those complaints about Spirit Taker that led to Myrkr? That was probably Mala or me, and we would have submitted those changes 4-5 years ago.
You should get used to the idea that SE has had a plan in place for years. You are allowed to offer opinions, but it's very possible you are too late to make any difference. Stop worrying about what I have to say and how SE might react. I told SE long before you even knew about me. -
08-11-2011, 10:35 PMRazushuNo offense meant to Mala, but they tends to do it in a very negative, or aggressive way, I'm not saying I can't see why just that if I had to read threads all day in work I'd skim these kinds at best. They are very, very vocal when it comes to criticising SE, and it's employees, again likely to get skimmed. Mala also asks for things SE clearly has not intention of changing/feels works as well as it should, and asks as if they feel these are desperately needed fixes. So far this thread has been well thought out and on topic(Mala's posts included), which fyi is the future of SMN, in line with SE's vision(as SE are more likely to listen to these types of requests/Qs)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
They have started to enhance our buffs, the duration boost was a GREAT start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
I completely agree with you here, they've given us a boost to our buffing, and our healing is still fine Avatar + subjob we make a fine support healer. The only thing still suffering is our DD, and the upcoming update should hopefully fix this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
I almost thought you were going to make a post without the added completely baseless arrogance, almost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
I've buffed 5 DD before, /WHM I can still keep a party alive outside Abyssea on my own. The pet will be attacking anyway, and will only recieve it's own buffs. That math only works if you and your Avatar are each doing the same as a WAR, a SMN does 1/4 of the damage of a WAR(when recieving the same buffs), so avatar aside a SMN meleeing along the 4 WARs is only adding 1/16th to the total damage party. Carby gives a better AoE cure 388HP baseline, relying on Garuda's TP to give decent cures is ok if they're once off, but if you need those cures on a regular basis it's not always going to be at 300%TP. /SCH is great if you know cures are going to be covered, and -nas will be heavily needed or are in a mage party. Not to brag but as a SMN/WHM I can deal nice spike damage, buff and main heal a party(outside Abyssea) indefinitely, no resting, so I can safely say I'm playing at a high level already.
We're a spike damage dealer that is hampered by a 45second timer, fix the timer fix the damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
My SMN is always accepted to parties, only thing I'm regularly left out of is seal parties. We get BP delay -, enhances avatar : atk & acc, pet :MAB, summoning magic skill +, and gear that enhances various traits& abilities. These alll enhance our damage/cures/buffs, these help us buff better, cure more, cure faster & killer faster. No SMN is relying on /WHM, we use /XXX to enhance our usefullness and expand our role in a party not replace it. If a SMN goes to a group as just a /WHM they fail as a player just as much as a SMN going just a /SAM to a party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
I'm not trying to control what SE read I just want a thread they'll actually read(been pretty successful so far), I know SE knows about melee mages, they're the ones who added the gear that lets you do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
I'm well aware SE has a plan already for SMN, I said so in the OP. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what they're doing atm, and where they're taking it, in line with that plan(read my OP), so that we can give suggestions and provide feedback on what adjustments we do/don't like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas
To do this we need a thread the comm. reps will actually read and look over, not just another flame war. Feel free to post here you'll be welcome, but please try to keep in line with the OP and for the most part everyone elses posts. It's been working so far, they're definitely paying attention.
Threads like this are our best bet to be heard by SE, other jobs are all pretty unified on what they want( and even when they're not they mostly still want things in line with what SE is planning), SMN doesn't have that we have Hyrbrid SMNs, backline SMNs, melee SMNs, solo-only SMNs, spirit SMNs, even people who just like to flame SMNs. For once we are providing a relatively unified front for SE to see, and it's working. So please join us in trying to be heard, help us push SMN forward(we can only do this if we have SE's ear), or kindly step aside, there's plenty of threads already full of SMN infighting. -
08-12-2011, 12:16 AMDallas
Raz, no one believes for a second you aren't trying to control the discussion. You attack me in every thread even though you know I have already seen everything you have to offer. You even started this thread assuming melee was off limits. Now you want me to keep in. line. LOL
If the only way you will be civil is if people agree with you, turn your computer off.