Sortie - Owning a tier 4 Prime weapon punishes players

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xilk

I think there are a few possible options:
1. Show a noticeable increase in Gallimaufry reward for the NM's who's AI has become more more challenging. I think this is the best solution.

---

My concern with #1 is that even if there is an increase in reward, it doesn't increase collaboration. Some folks will still exclude Stage 4 Prime holders based on the composition of their group. We have to think many months and years into the future with the solution to this problem.

I would recommend that Enraged Bosses are a separate selection when entering Sortie, if someone has a Stage 4 or Stage 5 Weapon. Also, I like the idea of adding 10-50% additional Gallimaufry when a party has 2-6 Stage 4 (or Stage 5!) weapons.

This would have the added effect of subsequent Prime Weapons earning Gallimaufry at a faster rate. In my opinion, this will increase collaboration and improve player retention.

just like you can select difficulty level when doing seal bcnms and merit fights, give the option to select a difficulty upon entrance.

Thank you for responding here are some of my thoughts.

The prime grind is already an extremely demanding task, requiring coordinated hour-long group content daily for over six months to complete. For weaker groups, the process will take much longer, making it quite extreme for an ultimate weapon in the current era. Compare it to ultimate weapons of the past, which can now be completed within a day to a few weeks and still have similar power.

It feels like the dev team is placing an excessive burden on players, expecting them to commit a significant amount of time and effort. While some might argue that doing sortie daily is optional, the reality is that player behaviors are influenced by the dev team's design decisions. With the psyche obtainment process taking six months to complete a prime, players will naturally try to keep pace by participating in sortie as much as needed.

Recently, reaching stage 4 brought about some deceptive changes, making the lower bosses harder in some fashion without increasing rewards. The patch notes mentioned a "behavior change," which is very ambiguous. It would have been more informative if it stated that the difficulty changes are based on weapon stage.

Considering we'll be running sortie for years to come, I believe there's a lot that can be done to make it a more enjoyable experience. After all, if this is what we'll be doing for the foreseeable future, why not make it more engaging? Here are some of my suggestions to improve sortie:

* New Equipment Drops: Consider adding new equipment drops for each boss, similar to Omen, with some common boss drops and maybe even a super rare one.
* Add difficulty option when entering sortie
* Increase gall gains for stage 4 version bosses.
* Add weekly RoEs rewarding gall for killing sortie bosses to give players leeway to keep pace with 6 month timeframe and still allow few days off
* Teleportation after Boss Defeat: Allow players to teleport to the next area after defeating the boss of a section. This would reduce excessive running and make the gameplay smoother.
* Aminion Mechanics Tweaks: Consider adjusting Aminion's mechanics, as he currently uses multiple abilities consecutively (up to 3? in a row) as you bring his health down, which can be overwhelming and confusing to what his actual weakness currently is.

I hope these suggestions and feedback are helpful. Let's work together to make the game more enjoyable and rewarding for everyone!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoji_Fujito

Good day, everyone,

How This Issue Effects Empyrean Armor

Some people have mentioned that they a frustrated by the effects that this has on reforging Empyrean armor, but as mentioned, the adjustments affected only the behavior of the Lower Sortie boss and thus has no effect on reforging Empyrean armor. Even though you have to go to Lower Sortie if you are reforging Empyrean Armor to +3, there is no need for you to attempt the Lower Sortie boss.

---

With all due respect Director Fujito, you are telling players with Stage 4 Weapons and those who wish to farm Empyrean +3 Armor to simply avoid playing together. This is extremely divisive and will only further serve to decrease collaboration and hinder participation among players who want to do Sortie. All players want to farm gallimaufry but not be divided according to their current goals (progress towards Armor vs Weapons).

All players are accustomed to a certain amount of Gallimaufry per run, but now he or she must now accept lesser gains when joining a group of players who want to farm Empyrean +3 or avoid the Lower Sortie Bosses altogether. This artificially limits the progress of both groups of players. It also diminishes the pool of available players, reduces the gallimuafry gain for Stage 4 weapon holders, and alienates everyone involved.

To be honest, this kind of division should not exist, but if you were to insist, I would suggest creating an extra area for Stage 4 or Stage 5 weapon owners with Enraged Monsters. This would mean the current play style is unhindered by any one particular player's progress. The group can then decide to continue runs as we have been for the past year or to take the new Enraged area. For the folks seeking the increased challenge, the new rooms/areas with Enraged monsters could fill that need.

Please remember, the entire player base wants to earn Gallimaufry, but does not want to do so at the expense of each other's progress. On some days, just finding enough people with the correct jobs, is a success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoji_Fujito

While I do not believe we have fully solved how to handle this issue, I wanted to be able to share with what the intended behavior was and provide the relevant information in a clear way.
The other unintended side effects that these changes have had on gameplay are an issue that we are currently researching, and we are discussing potential measures that we may wish to take.

---

Has the Team thought about Star Stones or Star Sapphires being traded to make +2/+3 gear, or even for an amount of gallimaufry (like 5k and 2k or something like that).

I feel like if you were to lower the gallimaufry requirement slightly it might be an easier pill to swalllow with the monsters being harder. Like instead of 1mil, 2.5mil, and 5mil, what if it was 500,000, 1 mil, 2 mil, and take more psyche like 5 per tier to gate keep it that way. Its less grinding against harder bosses

The shear amount of points it takes, on average of 30,000-35,000 points a run, it will take 242 runs or almost 1 year to get enough points. If these points were lowered people could farm multiple weapons for all the jobs the enjoy playing. I really don't want to spend 1 year at a time to get 1 of these weapons (and that is if my friends don't get bored and leave) because I know solo people are getting at best 12,000-15,000 which means it would take almost 3 year for me to get one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ragnarzero

The shear amount of points it takes, on average of 30,000-35,000 points a run, it will take 242 runs or almost 1 year to get enough points.

---

And groups are doing 40k+ easily. These should take the better part of a year or more to make by virtue of their power. Balance went out the window with several of these weapons. The annoying part is the process is so dry rather than varied like a mythic would be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ragnarzero

Has the Team thought about Star Stones or Star Sapphires being traded to make +2/+3 gear, or even for an amount of gallimaufry (like 5k and 2k or something like that).

I feel like if you were to lower the gallimaufry requirement slightly it might be an easier pill to swalllow with the monsters being harder. Like instead of 1mil, 2.5mil, and 5mil, what if it was 500,000, 1 mil, 2 mil, and take more psyche like 5 per tier to gate keep it that way. Its less grinding against harder bosses

The shear amount of points it takes, on average of 30,000-35,000 points a run, it will take 242 runs or almost 1 year to get enough points. If these points were lowered people could farm multiple weapons for all the jobs the enjoy playing. I really don't want to spend 1 year at a time to get 1 of these weapons (and that is if my friends don't get bored and leave) because I know solo people are getting at best 12,000-15,000 which means it would take almost 3 year for me to get one.

---

Lowering the Gaullimaufry requirement doesn't help us in this situation for the reasons others have already posted. However, exchanging sortie items for gallimaufry is also being discussed on the JP forums. (Trading Cases/stones for 2k/5k gallimaufry). I like this idea, I would prefer the exchange rate be 20% or higher (just like Bayld and Wildskeeper Rieve items). This would make 70k Starstones worth 14k Gallimaufry when returned.

If we could address the +2 earring distribution by making Old Case +1 yield more frequent +2 earrings OR perhaps even offer Old Case +2 as a purchasable and equitable item, I would be ecstatic. (For example, old case +1 and old case +2, costing 50k and 100k gallimaufry respectively, that would be great in my opinion).

Just some food for thought.

I think everyone is over reacting. Lets be honest, the bosses were way to easy. People were killing all 9 and getting 90k average. I don't think Absorb-TP was ever the intended strat so I welcome these changes and I am fairly sure someone will find a new Aminon strat and continue to cheese the rest with Gravity 2 and bolster indi-gravity.

I can see why people would want to trade in starsone cases ect since already have stacks of them saved.

I feel like people keep saying no additional reward but totally forget about the weapon they can now use out of sortie.

Give it a few months if the game has not fell off the face of the earth in despair by then, someone will figure it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrxi

I think everyone is over reacting. Lets be honest, the bosses were way to easy. People were killing all 9 and getting 90k average. I don't think Absorb-TP was ever the intended strat so I welcome these changes and I am fairly sure someone will find a new Aminon strat and continue to cheese the rest with Gravity 2 and bolster indi-gravity.

I can see why people would want to trade in starsone cases ect since already have stacks of them saved.

I feel like people keep saying no additional reward but totally forget about the weapon they can now use out of sortie.

Give it a few months if the game has not fell off the face of the earth in despair by then, someone will figure it out.

---

Huge misrepresentation Mrxi
The best of teams are getting 90k 1/2 the time.
It would be 70k average, if everything goes perfectly.
That is only the very best teams. and frankly performance will not always be perfect, so I imagine its less that that.

you are also ignoring the increased difficulty w/ no change in reward and the way more players will respond is by NOT upgrading to stage 4 because of it. Its getting a pay cut at work. its basic behaviorism. its a bad solution in a game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xilk

Huge misrepresentation Mrxi
The best of teams are getting 90k 1/2 the time.
It would be 70k average, if everything goes perfectly.
That is only the very best teams. and frankly performance will not always be perfect, so I imagine its less that that.

you are also ignoring the increased difficulty w/ no change in reward and the way more players will respond is by NOT upgrading to stage 4 because of it. Its getting a pay cut at work. its basic behaviorism. its a bad solution in a game.

---

100% This, This would be like your Boss, coming to you, and saying oh by the way lets make your Job 2x as hard as it is now, and you need to do 2x as much work to get it done, Cool thanks have a nice day. (no mention of increased compensation) Would you accept that? or would you quit? I know I'd be looking for a new Job right away.

I know our Crew can do 30-37k a run 4 bosses 2 upper and 2 lower, Plus some Narkules. We are shifting to try to include more bosses and last night we barely made 30k because we didn't have enough time to get to the 3rd basement boss, Its something we need to work on and i'm sure we can handle it but going for a 7/8 bosses isn't in the picture at the moment, and our team is a really well geared group, I'm BIS Cor, Nyme R25, team mates with BIS War, Drk, Rdm, Brd and Whm (or Sch). and we ran out of time (mainly because we tried to get the plate in H (and got it)). So when i say that 30-35k is a good average for a group I think that is fair to say. You will have your hard core min/maxers that will get the 70-90k sure just like any game, but there is also people out there Eeking out 10-15k solo or 20-25k in groups. as Xilk and other said, we just need more ways to get Gali or increase the amount gotten, and don't just punish us by making things harder just because they can be harder.