Example? BLU is one of the most lethal jobs in the game; not only does it deal legitimate damage, but its spells also give survivability. The only thing holding BLU back is having to wait on cooldowns for spells; take that away and you end up with a job that can act as both a 99WAR and a 99RDM; able to use every spell in its arsenal at will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
People need to stop trying to resurrect Avesta. BLU is dangerous on more than "trash mobs" if its properly geared by a player who knows -how- to play BLU. Posters here are focusing on Voidwatch but not realizing that unlocking all spells for BLU without cooldown impacts everything, not just one event.
Kill Blue Mage Cooldown.......
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10-06-2012, 09:15 AMLlana_Virren
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10-06-2012, 12:20 PMZagenI essentially asked "How?" and you come back with dribble. I know what BLU is capable of and isn't capable of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
In VW it's a stagger job, that fact it can do some damage is nice but you don't bring it along for it's "lethal" damage capabilities because those don't exist in VW.
They don't exist in Legion either.
They are nice in NNI but then again those are trash mobs and the only challenge is the stupid luck required on decent jumps and lamps.
The only time a BLU is lethal in anything that could be considered relevant endgame content would be Abyssea and a player capable of making BLU lethal is more than likely done with Abyssea.
So like I said how would removing the cool down time make it overpowered?
I can give you reasons how swapping spells mid battle/event is a terrible idea, and that is while you're fiddling with the menus you can't be doing optimal damage, you can't be providing optimal support at the drop of a pin, in essence while you'd fiddling with the menu you're a waste of a slot that's pretty much good for mediocre melee damage compared to a traditional melee DD.
So please enlighten me on how exactly it would make BLU broken.
Edit: before you misinterpret my mention of Abyssea, Abyssea monsters due to level correction and Cruor and Atma buffs are considered trash monsters now not that they were actually tough before we got up to 99.
Also if you're arguing about BLU solo, NIN, BST, PLD, WHM, RDM solo are all pretty overpowered but then again who wants to sit there whittling down a monster all day long, maybe I just grew out of the stupid bragging rights phase of my life but that sounds boring. -
10-06-2012, 04:25 PMSpankWustler
I've never had an issue with the cool-down other than Voidwatch. Voidwatch makes up for this by causing huge issues, generally requiring a group to take either two Blue Mages who are still forced to half-ass the job a bit if they want to proc with maximum efficiency or one miserable Blue Mage who is left with barely any ass at all if he wants to proc anything at all.
I think it would make more sense to just drastically reduce the number of Blue Magic Voidwatch procs.
"But then people will only take one half-assed Blue Mage to proc all the things, instead of two three-quarter-assed Blue Mages!" some cry out. I just can't see how that is a bad thing, as it still benefits the group by allowing them more options. -
10-06-2012, 04:38 PMZagenGroups I've done VW with don't take a BLU, makes my BLU sad but then again I have DRK and other jobs available. Never had white be a BLU spell yet but it was PUP once and we just capped with yellows and reds without a problem. Even with spell timer set to 0 it wouldn't change much other than the groups that find value in BLU would bring 1 instead of 2 and be happy with the extra damage from spells, though because of how Blue Physical Attack is factored you're more likely to kill your DPS by casting spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankWustler
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10-12-2012, 03:17 PMBabekekeNot being able to cover all magic procs in VW is fairly retarded. Unless you're low-manning just for the win but even then we'll try and have at least 1 blu 1 blm 1 brd 1 whm 1 of which is /sch, and a NIN or at least /nin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
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10-12-2012, 10:48 PMZagenSo then your groups take a DRG, BST, SMN, and PUP every time right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Babekeke
The odds of it being a BLU spell for all red and white staggers, or even more than 1 red stagger are I dare say 0 or almost impossible if it is even possible. I have seen BLU be a yellow and red at the same time, but we still capped without a problem and without having to /fume.
Unless you bring 2 BLU and have them set every single proc spell between them you're wasting 1 minute waiting for the cool down to give them a shot to stagger if it wasn't one of the spells set already. Often times in that 1 minute lights will get capped from the rest of the stagger options getting found and then the ones that replaced them also getting found. Oh and if you bring 2 BLU with all spells so there is no delay in trying, their damage added to the group will be well on par with a Melee RDM because you forced them to set proc spells over DD utility spells.
There are "accepted" rules I've heard/read about when a BLU is welcomed and they go are something like this:
- Only reset spells if White is BLU
- Only reset spells if Red is BLU and we can't do the rest (usually small man groups)
- Don't ever reset spells because we want you helping with stuns
The cool down issue is almost exclusive to voidwatch but that's because there's actually 32 options. BLU in Abyssea is almost always excluded because playing the odds a BLM/BRD + NIN or /NIN can cover all but 8. Don't get me wrong BLU/NIN could be your tank, I've done it plenty of times but not everyone knows how to play BLU and even then fewer know how to tank with it well. Reducing the stagger spells doesn't make BLU more attractive it actually makes them less attractive because of the learning curve of the job. -
10-13-2012, 12:01 AMBabekekeQuote:
Originally Posted by Babekeke
I highlighted the key word there for you. Cover all magic procs and use DDs to kill the mob. Main exception to this is Botulus, where 2 magic parties is generally better and just 1 melee pt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
Personally, unless I'm low-manning for wins for ppl only, or the group has been shouting forever for a blu and we decide to give up and go with just 1, I would always take 2 BLU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
Actually their melee damage is much less than a melee RDM, since they're all wearing Chatoyant staffs and only proccing. Same as the NIN. They only tend to engage if there is a sword proc (katana obviously for NIN) and they aren't currently trying to proc a red or white magic proc. You obviously use a different strategy than groups on our server. Our proc parties are 3 BLM or 2 BLM and a rdm or sch, with 2 blu and a nin. They have no buffs so no point in meleeing anyway. With 2 Strong DD parties, it's rare that they have to even try for procs since all magic procs are covered. The only exception being a red or white dark blm proc if it's proven to be an absorb spell. DDs won't even try to get a WS proc on red unless there aren't any more magic procs to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
In my experience, like I said we almost always have 2 BLU, and if we really need help with stuns, we take a sch for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
For abyssea, THF/NIN, WHM/RDM and BLM/BRD and you're missing all but 3 (since can only be 1 of 3 elements on any given game day). If you're not on thunder light dark or fireday, you can scrap the whm/rdm too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagen
You don't need to be a good BLU or <insert job here> to tank in abyssea lol.
And I agree that lowering the number of procs is only going to make BLU even less desirable or even required in VW. SMN has 8 procs, and I rarely ever see a SMN in VW. Lower BLU procs to 8 and it will become as desirable as SMN.
So you get to set more DD-Type spells.... but you no longer get an invite. Catch #22. -
10-13-2012, 12:55 AMZagenYour BLU's don't need staffs to land spells. Don't get me wrong I get the idea of reducing the resist rate but only 8 of the BLU spells can be out right resisted, and one of those only lands if the mob has buffs. The rest do damage and won't miss, sure the damage can be resisted but I doubt you're banking on their damage.Quote:
Actually their melee damage is much less than a melee RDM, since they're all wearing Chatoyant staffs and only proccing. Same as the NIN.
Think of that more of a general fyi/curiosity more so than anything else. When I have gone on BLU it was on low-man things and having sword or club equipped + monarch's was more useful than using a staff would have been.
And you're right groups I go with that aren't low man are run different than yours. Generally running BLM x2 (at least 1 /SCH), BRDx2 (in DD pts), WHM x2, NIN, DRK 1-2, fill in with other DDs who can proc.
In those groups I swear I'm the only DRK who bothers to cast when BLMs proclaim Dark Magic is DRK proc. Kills my DPS for a bit but capped lights over uncapped > DPS imo.
That is more so for the older VWs for Ig/Rex/Bismarck/Morta it's similar but we've actually set DDs to certain procs. At least that's how it's been done so far, though I don't often go on these due to them not being shouted for as often.
I don't disagree when talking about myself or my friends but I also don't do shout runs on my mule anymore because apparently on my server this isn't true, when talking about the ones that still need seals/+2 items.Quote:
You don't need to be a good BLU or <insert job here> to tank in abyssea lol.
With a 0 use delay on using spells after resetting/changing spells BLUs would be far more appealing for those who see 1 minute delay and say screw BLU.Quote:
So you get to set more DD-Type spells.... but you no longer get an invite. Catch #22
People are arguing that giving a 0 delay on spell use after resetting would make BLU over powered.
Now I just thought of this and maybe people think the OP and others (myself included) for it are talking about the recast delay for spells instead of the use delay. At which point I would agree that would be over powered but then again I didn't get that from the OP.
Edit: Further clarification:
Use Delay is the 1 minute cool down before you can cast any Blue Spell.
Resetting spells does not reset the recast time of the spell, you can test this by setting warm-up (120 sec recast) then adding or removing another spell and then try to recast warm-up once your spells unlock, you'll find that you can't.
So again I'll ask this question: How does removing the usage delay make BLU overpowered? -
10-13-2012, 02:27 PMRaucent
as i mentioned on page 1 if SE lessened the reset timers i am willing to bet they would nerf the hell outta the stats and traits from the set spells.
As an example I could see someone using windowers Spellcast or other tool start casting a spell then during cast change the other set spells to give them MAB or other "boost the spell you are casting" type effects or suddenly changing the spells during a skillchain to boost a stat as high as possible to boost its damage -
10-13-2012, 04:36 PMZagenSpellcast can't navigate menus so your example isn't possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raucent