Here is your "Playerbase"

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Originally Posted by Tohihroyu

JPONRY! if the JP want Entropy to be Spirit Taker, then thats just how it is. We are not Japanese therefore we don't deserve anything "good" >_> its "their" game anyway should be "thankful" non Japanese can play this.

Why even ask for Non Japanese imput anyway? so they can laugh at all our "baka" fixes?

lol soon enough this will happen again, on all servers

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Seriously after 10 years the people dont know how play the JP people?

Here is my personal exp and the time shared with Jp friends.

If you go a Abbysea party with Full Jp guys.

You will be asked for sub /nin if you are a dd. Yes War, Sam, DRK, they want you sub ninja.

If you are a thief/ Ninja / Monk / Puppet they dont see you as DD, they want you Sub dancer for help with the heals

"Kill too fast" Yes your read that good or take much damage is taked as a seriously insult for they.

The 95% of Jp players dont care about parse or damage. They only care about cooperation and teamwork.

So if you go a JP einherjar run. You will notice see all the DDS/Ninja Light DDS/DNC, a lot of bards/whm, cor/whm.

If you are doing a Event with them. They expect you be talk often, if you just want shut up and bash shit, this will be taked as a insult you not are enjoying with they.

They do no think like US. They think in a way more "Fantasy" More DRK use Mp!, Sam tank!, Monk is a light dd will be assist heals!, respect your party do not 1 shoting shit with ukovansara plz ^_^. Oh yeah and more. lol im not surprised they actualy asked for something like this

I SWEAR i saw in WoE spawmeage Drks/whm, drk/rdm, drk/sch jp GUYs casting nukes on WoE Hyper bosses.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

I don't think Pandemonium Warden was supposed to be that difficult, I think the player base just didn't know how to properly take it down. Square Enix seemed surprised too when they realized people were taking so long to defeat certain monsters. Thus they gave us a "how to kill Absolute Virtue guide" and capped time on monsters...

A lot of people have left the game because it's an old game. They've beaten it, in a sense. They leveled all the jobs they wanted to the current max level, they completed all of the storylines, and they beat some of the hardest monsters in the game. Not really much left aside from the last 4 levels, some more Voidwatch, and maybe some potential new material if Square Enix chooses to create it.

But let's keep in mind the outside world as well. How many of us started playing this game as young teenagers and young adults? How many of us, after eight years, have moved onto college, jobs, and raising a family? There's a lot going on that affects the overall health of an MMO.

And besides, does it matter if we do lose some players? I personally like the elbow room and like being able to go farm Notorious Monsters without having fifteen other people latched onto my calves.

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Umm no, neither of those NM's were designed to ever be defeated. They were SE's sick idea of a time sink for players to do.

I remember when the very first AV was killed and it was discovered it had absolutely no loot pool, not even a title. There was no way to lock it's 2hr's, it just spammed them whenever it wanted and as many times as it wanted. Infinite Benediction and Chainspell Meteor II. When that epic long (was it 18hr) PW fight happened, the players could easily damage him. He just kept cycling forms over and over and over again. Kill him four, five, six times, it didn't matter, he had an infinite HP bar basically because it would just refill after each "death".

After we figured out AV had no drop list and was unbeatable unless you abused the AI and a null space location on the map we stopped caring about him. So SE came in and inserted a drop pool and gave that little video. People tried the whole "lock" his 2hrs and it didn't work, he still had infinite benediction / chainspell Meteor II. Then players figured out DRK zerging him with a dozen+ zerglings, so we killed it. But then SE stepped in and stopped that tactic cold. After that we stopped caring. Eventually the media attention from those people getting sick on the 18hr PW fight, when PW would just keep cycling forms forced SE to make their pet NM's actually kill-able. The inserted that 2hr period and suddenly you could lock AV's 2hr abilities and PW would only cycle through his forms once. Still the fights were ridiculously hard. On AV you only had seconds to use benediction after he refilled his HP, and it wasn't guaranteed that it would lock it. If your two to three WHM's failed to lock it then you either wiped or rushed people out to change to WHM to try again. Same with Chainspell. PW required that you have people /logout and use a bunch of zombie BLU's to bring his final form down. Otherwise his 2HR would just keep going off until everyone was dead.

I was really happy when they raised the level cap and abyssea came out. It made me come bAck to the game. I have always liked this game because when you earned a particular item through hard work it paid off, and you do need to coordinate and work well with other players but lets be serious ffxi has nothing on other mmorpgs in terms of battle strategy.
Most HNM pre abyssea were killed by gimiks like zerg, or lets get it stuck in this little corner ' otherwise it was "lets stay alive and see if we can kill before it refills all its health etc."

Compare it with WoW stuff where endgame you had 25 people coordinating an assault, jumping over flames at the same time, 25 peeps get out of AoE at the same time then get back on, run out of the thing on the floor thats going to kill u etc.

THAT is. COordination. VW fights etc where the "coordination" is stay out of AoE untill procs then get on and kill . . . Not so much. I would be happy if TP on HNM dissapeared and they just gave them timed abilities. So melees could actually . . . Melee, and time SCs. I know its a crazy concept.

Also post abyssea the game recieved a friendly boost. Have we forgotten that before it would take us 2-3 days to raise 1 level, unless you spent something like 6 hours straight leveling on the game. Thats ridiculous. And thats IF you get a party. As DRK i can remember the hours I spent with flag up in jeuno /searching every area to see if any party would take me.

So getting back to the main point in the thread, should players be super powerfull and have awesome new WSs . . Hell yeah. Do we want super easy bosses, hell no. But make them hard in interesting ways, dont just make it impossible to kill.

There lots of ways already in the game to make bosses challenging. Have Phy damage phases / magic damage phases,but take away NM tp gain during phy dmg phase so melee can actually melee. Have triggers do essential things during boss fights like lock a particularly deadly TPmove or ability. Make it so you can Only trigger at certain times so that it takes timing. Have arcana HNM have a special trigger for DRK abilities, a dragon NM have a super weakness trigger to a DRG ability, undead with PLD etc. so when you go to kill a dragon mob and you think, "which DD should i bring" DRG should be a no brainer.

Have SCs trigger and lock elemental magic on the boss corresponding to the SC element or something.
But makeit so that if you are skilled enough and coordinated enough to trigger efectively you can beat the boss. But not all triggers are essential, so nobody has to stay off the mob for 10 minutes while you proc.

I think some of the CoP fights where u had to use items etc. to make NMs weaker were kind of precursors to this. But please this time around lets keep the frustration levels down. I dont mind getting killed 10 times on a HNM if my group is getting it wrong. But dont make us go through 2 hours of dungeon just to die and have to do it all over again. Promivions im looking at you.
Dungeon crawling events would have great potentiAl for stuff like this.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

No, you apparently don't because at no point in that entire topic did i even mention the weapon skills. I was replying to the "player base" that always wants the easy way out. If i mentioned anything about weapon skills please correct me, however, I would imagine that involved reading it "in a bit more detail" which is something none seem capable of now hence why I'm tired of the "easy mode" philosophy logic.

This topic has been beat to death a million times on here. What I get pissed at is "casual " players going crazy that the more hardcore older players enjoy a bit of a challenge for true end game. What we get is some zerg crap because they don't come up with better ways to involve the alliances to work together. What we have is end game from VW being a few procs then zerging which is absolutely no fun to me in the least anymore. No one that is hardcore enjoys 18 hour fights from PW or AV but we expect more than consistent zerg marathons where any moron with enough cannon fodder can kill it.

If you are in the group we consider casual players then i salute you to enjoying the game. I even recommend SE cater some game play to your enjoyment. What I don't approve of is the selfish behavior that because my alliance or LS group can kill something they should nerf it down so much that you (because you don't intend to learn to play better with a team or alliance) can and without the "super hard" HNM enemies be added for my group.

I work everyday through the week and I don't have much time to play FFXI anymore but if I do get online to do end game i expect to be pushed to my limits not kill something in less time than it takes to make popcorn with my LS.

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I mentioned this before, but people like you are hypocrites. You go on and on about not wanted easy mode, yet you will only hunt with specific jobs to make the fight as easy as possible. So how can you complain about easy mode when every elitist I have ever seen in the game constantly looks for the easiest way to beat a NM.

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Originally Posted by xbobx

I mentioned this before, but people like you are hypocrites. You go on and on about not wanted easy mode, yet you will only hunt with specific jobs to make the fight as easy as possible. So how can you complain about easy mode when every elitist I have ever seen in the game constantly looks for the easiest way to beat a NM.

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I am trying to understand how you can even come across that I'm a hypocrite. The example i always make of your type of players are the ones that were still taking 30 minutes to an hour to beat Fafnir when any good end game LS i was in did it in mere minutes. Your group uses people as cannon fodder to beat something then complain it's too hard knowing full well others are doing the enemies just fine.

You expect entitlement to everything even things of which you apparently lack the ability to try to understand better to kill. So what you have so far is calling me a hypocrite because my group will try to find the best approach to a mob to kill compared to your group saying all things should be just zerged down. I think the hypocrite is your groups logic.

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Compare it with WoW stuff where endgame you had 25 people coordinating an assault, jumping over flames at the same time, 25 peeps get out of AoE at the same time then get back on, run out of the thing on the floor thats going to kill u etc.

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I won't go out and say everyone that plays Wow did this but in my experience with end game Wow people they couldn't work together on FFXI. They bitched the most about experience loss, running places, etc. They never could work their jobs dynamic well in alliance fights. I can't really compare because i started Wow when it was in it's hard stage because of Ireek and that game was just way to easy to me after being on FF hard days. FF has changed so much I can't even begin to compare end game now to what it was like before. This gimmick fight technique was more chipping a mobs HP away. I wish they would have an anniversary type event on the test server and make it where its exactly like it was in different years: 03, 04, 05, 06, etc. I could see if people still think the game was just as easy as now since they believe themselves to be that much better.

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Originally Posted by Rampage

I was really happy when they raised the level cap and abyssea came out. It made me come bAck to the game. I have always liked this game because when you earned a particular item through hard work it paid off, and you do need to coordinate and work well with other players but lets be serious ffxi has nothing on other mmorpgs in terms of battle strategy.
Most HNM pre abyssea were killed by gimiks like zerg, or lets get it stuck in this little corner ' otherwise it was "lets stay alive and see if we can kill before it refills all its health etc."

Compare it with WoW stuff where endgame you had 25 people coordinating an assault, jumping over flames at the same time, 25 peeps get out of AoE at the same time then get back on, run out of the thing on the floor thats going to kill u etc.

THAT is. COordination. VW fights etc where the "coordination" is stay out of AoE untill procs then get on and kill . . . Not so much. I would be happy if TP on HNM dissapeared and they just gave them timed abilities. So melees could actually . . . Melee, and time SCs. I know its a crazy concept.

Also post abyssea the game recieved a friendly boost. Have we forgotten that before it would take us 2-3 days to raise 1 level, unless you spent something like 6 hours straight leveling on the game. Thats ridiculous. And thats IF you get a party. As DRK i can remember the hours I spent with flag up in jeuno /searching every area to see if any party would take me.

So getting back to the main point in the thread, should players be super powerfull and have awesome new WSs . . Hell yeah. Do we want super easy bosses, hell no. But make them hard in interesting ways, dont just make it impossible to kill.

There lots of ways already in the game to make bosses challenging. Have Phy damage phases / magic damage phases,but take away NM tp gain during phy dmg phase so melee can actually melee. Have triggers do essential things during boss fights like lock a particularly deadly TPmove or ability. Make it so you can Only trigger at certain times so that it takes timing. Have arcana HNM have a special trigger for DRK abilities, a dragon NM have a super weakness trigger to a DRG ability, undead with PLD etc. so when you go to kill a dragon mob and you think, "which DD should i bring" DRG should be a no brainer.

Have SCs trigger and lock elemental magic on the boss corresponding to the SC element or something.
But makeit so that if you are skilled enough and coordinated enough to trigger efectively you can beat the boss. But not all triggers are essential, so nobody has to stay off the mob for 10 minutes while you proc.

I think some of the CoP fights where u had to use items etc. to make NMs weaker were kind of precursors to this. But please this time around lets keep the frustration levels down. I dont mind getting killed 10 times on a HNM if my group is getting it wrong. But dont make us go through 2 hours of dungeon just to die and have to do it all over again. Promivions im looking at you.
Dungeon crawling events would have great potentiAl for stuff like this.

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I have been saying that for awhile but it falls on def ears to the point "WE LOVE ZERG" people who don't want to change because their parse is effected.

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Originally Posted by xbobx

I mentioned this before, but people like you are hypocrites. You go on and on about not wanted easy mode, yet you will only hunt with specific jobs to make the fight as easy as possible. So how can you complain about easy mode when every elitist I have ever seen in the game constantly looks for the easiest way to beat a NM.

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This so much!!! All the elitists go into every fight with elite gear, best atmas and abyssites, top weapons, elite "blue box onry" party members, then decry how easy things are to beat.
I've had plenty of challenge in this game largely based on not really caring if I had the best gear or not or if my party members were the best in the game. Basically relied on using sound strategy and team work to get victories. Its made for some fun and challenging fights over the years. And as for Abyssea, yes it got easier as you advanced with gear and atma. But it wasn't easy at the start. It tooks months of slogging to develop a well geared/atma'd job, let alone several jobs. I see nothing wrong with that approach. Its far more rewarding than the endless time sink of VWNM with no quests or stories or variety of activities that Abyssea offered.

As for the original OP, yes the new merited WS should beat level 60 WS when fulled merited. Several do, but they all should in reality. Save the other WS for proc use only. Every job should have a high powered magical WS, a high powered physical WS and a decent enfeebling WS to be used as its major WS core. Presumably those WS should come from newer WS. And relic, empyrean and mythic WS should all either be better or at least on par with significant benefits of use (aftermath, hidden effects, etc).
Why SE needs to make things so complex with adding useless things all the time, I'll never understand. This game is far too full of bloat these days.

This

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

You honestly have no fucking clue what you are even talking about when discussing end game. Your idea of 7+ years of playing something is zerging it down in 4 minutes so you can watch another episode of Jersey Shore apparently. .

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

I am trying to understand how you can even come across that I'm a hypocrite. The example i always make of your type of players are the ones that were still taking 30 minutes to an hour to beat Fafnir when any good end game LS i was in did it in mere minutes.

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Originally Posted by xbobx

I mentioned this before, but people like you are hypocrites.

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Btw The whole "old endgame stuff was better becuase it took teamwork to do" is BS, i was there it was simple and easy with the exception of PW and AV which im doubting you are talking about since you mentioned lolfafnir, maybe you are referring to lolgenbu ?

Endgame content has always been (insert number) of (insert jobs) to kill (insert Nm), there was no teamwork it was a chore as most people had to play jobs they did not like in order to get credit/points to lot the gear they wanted when it was eventually their turn(sometimes months/years).

What I am saying Chriscoffey is, it is the elitist are the ones that did the throw All sams at it, or blms or rngs, whatever the job of the day was at that time. They ignored the drgs, the pups, the blus etc, because they didn't want to try ant beat it with a balanced party, they wanted to make the fight easy.

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

I am trying to understand how you can even come across that I'm a hypocrite. The example i always make of your type of players are the ones that were still taking 30 minutes to an hour to beat Fafnir when any good end game LS i was in did it in mere minutes. Your group uses people as cannon fodder to beat something then complain it's too hard knowing full well others are doing the enemies just fine.

You expect entitlement to everything even things of which you apparently lack the ability to try to understand better to kill. So what you have so far is calling me a hypocrite because my group will try to find the best approach to a mob to kill compared to your group saying all things should be just zerged down. I think the hypocrite is your groups logic.

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You know why your ls could down nms in minutes while it took others 30? Experience. Preparation. Preparation in gear, research, strategy, making that strategy happen by bringing the proper jobs in proper amounts. You know, looking for the easiest, most efficient, hassle-free way to kill mobs and get loot.

Unless you started the game very recently, everyone started by throwing bodies at things because there was a time when people didn't understand the game's mechanics and had absolute trash gear. I remember when nms were taken down with an aerial armor rotation for the tank. I remember when accepting a wipe from kirin's astral flow was pretty standard. But tactics change. Gear gets better. Now people zerg Kirin in 2 minutes or less. That's not people shouting for easier mobs, that's people getting better at the game and actually progressing so that their characters are stronger.

Your ls wasn't blessed by some MMORPG god that allowed you to exceed the power of mere scrubs. Your group worked towards that point by getting better gear, putting effort into leveling proper jobs and merits, and doing research. You (and everyone really) were standing on the backs of people who came before. Yes, you looked for the easiest way to do to it, like most everyone else did. I think the real hypocritical part comes when 'leet groups look down on the 'scrubs' taking 30 minutes to kill a mob, when there was a time your group was likely at the same stage of starting out.