Relic Weapon Skills at Level 99

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Originally Posted by macross

We won't know how 99' will be, we still dunno what afterglow is. Just watch afterglow will be uber, and blow away 85 empys, but relic holders will still complain if it's a difficult trial.

Bravura lets you tank better, ukko dps better
yoichi low enmity, gandiva more dmg
relics got their strengths too, it's not all about dmg you do.
gkts are pretty similar, so are daggers.

Anyhow if the 85 version of the weapon is stronger, why don't you have it. It only takes 1 day to make.

If they all do the same damage at 99, then what exactly was the point in putting empys in? Should they make bravura do the same damage as ukon, while keeping it's tanking properties? Should yoichi keep its low enmity, but do the dps as a gandiva? You can't have the best of both worlds all wrapped up into one weapon, especially given how easy it is to make relics these days.

Also empy are only usable on one job, where relics multi can use, that's gotta count for someting as well.

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h2h
sword
greatsword
dagger
axe
staff

wut?

You know macross, as much fun as it is to see you bring up points that are already in the works to change, thus making them self defeating, this topic isn't about what you are turning it into.

The point of the topic is to show the faults of relics in comparison to other weapons:

Currently, various stats of the weapons do not work in offhand. While update to the test server shows that they are possibly considering allowing this, the additional effects still don't work. Every other weapon you can equip works in both main and offhand. TP bonus, Latent effects, additional effects already similar to relic effects, they all work in offhand.

Hidden effects can't work on double/triple/quadruple attacks, but ODD can work on all hits of that weapon. While the increase in proc% at 95 was welcomed, it doesn't make sense that other weapons able to increase damage by 2~4x can work on all hits, but not a hidden effect.

Every single non-relic WS has an additional TP modifier attached to the amount of TP used. Currently, the only thing holding TP does for a Relic WS is increase duration of aftermath. Both Emp and Mythic WS have some form of TP modifier that changes the WS while also getting an Aftermath duration increase (or in mythics case different type of aftermath). The 25% boost the WS received at 90 is unsubstantial when the WS still has no ability to scale while all others do.

Relic animations are deceiving by some showing multiple hits (dagger, polearm, katana, axe, club) when they are only 1 hit. The idea behind this was that the WS must be too strong to make it true multi-hit. Emp effectively nullifies this by having the same Stat% modifiers, TP modifiers, and still performing multiple hits.

The funny thing is, even before Emp weapons existed, a lot of these key points were common questions relic users always questioned about, but had no real way to voice it to those with contact to the Dev team in order to get answers. These are what relic holders want to know. If there is a substantial reason behind why all of the above is true on Relic, but isn't on all other sources....why can't it be changed. They have already broken what ever rules they put up when the weapons were originally made, now the users just want it to apply evenly rather than feel as though they are getting nothing but empty promises from developers.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

They're being pedantic with saying specifically level 95, due to Emp's Heavy Metal Plates requirement.

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The thread is about balancing the two types of weapons at 99. Unless you find a way to get an Empyrean to level 99 without trading in 1500 HMPs, it's as relevant as any other stage.

Relics have been around longer than Emps, of course, but level 95 Relics have been around the exact same amount of time, and I have zero problems believing there are more of them because


wait for it


completing a level 95 Relic is easier than completing a level 95 Empyrean.

Apoc.

Make the haste aftermath counted as it's own type of haste or at least magic haste, putting it as gear haste in a time when capping gear haste is so easy ruins its main claim to fame.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

The thread is about balancing the two types of weapons at 99. Unless you find a way to get an Empyrean to level 99 without trading in 1500 HMPs, it's as relevant as any other stage.

Relics have been around longer than Emps, of course, but level 95 Relics have been around the exact same amount of time, and I have zero problems believing there are more of them because


wait for it


completing a level 95 Relic is easier than completing a level 95 Empyrean.

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In the same way completing a level 90 Empyrean is easier than completing a level 75 relic.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Apoc.

Make the haste aftermath counted as it's own type of haste or at least magic haste, putting it as gear haste in a time when capping gear haste is so easy ruins its main claim to fame.

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Magic is the only way it'd work, with Magic, gear and JA haste (which DRK caps for the most part of a battle) reach the cap on Haste fullstop, seeing as how the Haste cap won't be raised Magic is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

In the same way completing a level 90 Empyrean is easier than completing a level 75 relic.

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Level 90 doesn't matter anymore when there's level 95 and soon to be 99 in the game. Is there even a reason to compare level 80 relic to level 80 empyrean?

Also, you simply can't ignore the level 95 empyrean trial. Sure the 95 isn't much of an upgrade over the 90 but if you want the 99 you can't avoid heavy metal plates. At level 99 we will see which weapons are the best and can finally determine which are worth the cost/effort.

If your problem is that the 85 Empyreans (and perhaps even the 90s) are too easy to get, then maybe you'll agree with me when I say the standard of power for the new Merit Weaponskills ought to be Tachi: Shoha, which makes Fudo redundant.

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Originally Posted by macross

Relic weapons to 95 are about the same difficulty as empys to 95. Why do they need such crazy boosts? Relic holders act like it's super hard to make a relic or something...
Perhaps if 99 relic and empy are really hard trials then they deserve such buffs.

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Why derail the thread? This isn't about difficulty in obtaining a relic weapon. Its about the relic weapon skills. As stated in my OP plz if you do not have a relic or have some kind of information to provide that adds to the conversation plz find another forum.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Apoc.

Make the haste aftermath counted as it's own type of haste or at least magic haste, putting it as gear haste in a time when capping gear haste is so easy ruins its main claim to fame.

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Thank you for staying on topic.

One thing I would also like to add is that the update to 99 is right around the corner and if anything we can provide even has the slightest chance of getting back to the development team, I would rather they address this issue BEFORE the update rather then do nothing at all and give the usual "we will get around to it". IMO there is way too much atm that needs to be addressed in the game before they push everyone to 99. This issue is no different then the 100's of other issues that should be addressed BEFORE the next update. This update is coming too soon imo, but since we cannot stop it from happening we need information NOW not later.