On Red Mage melee...

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Originally Posted by Mirage

12% haste is terrible because you get 14% from full perle, and 18% with just that and a swift belt. Because of that alone, I would call a war with less than 18% terrible, 20-21% average, and 25% good.

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I'll assume you mean 26% good as 25% is below cap.

25% is the actual cap for equipment haste, 26% in gear is due to rounding since haste on a n/1024 value.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

I'll assume you mean 26% good as 25% is below cap.

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The story I heard was that it actually depends on the gear. Different fraction values in actual back end math, but the same % listed on the front end. Someone who's more familiar with it could tell you more.

Pretty much, even the spell haste isn't 15%, it's 14.6% iirc.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

I'll assume you mean 26% good as 25% is below cap.

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What i mean is 25% and above. The cap is 25.6% or something.

-edit-
To reply to the posts that popped up while i wrote this post.
The reason why people go for 26% is because then they're certain to be at the cap regardless of whatever fractions the gear pieces operate with. 25.8% is just as capped as 26.2% is.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

The story I heard was that it actually depends on the gear. Different fraction values in actual back end math, but the same % listed on the front end. Someone who's more familiar with it could tell you more.

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It does, it's why it just makes it easier to always go for 26% instead of hoping said gear is correctly labelled.

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The anti-melee side seems to think that we magically stop casting spells the moment we step up and swing.

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The melee RDM side seems to think that we magically stop casting spells, like... ever.

so much to reply to ... were to start. the Parse you can make up w/e info you want about me picking the wrong mobs or w/e you could add in what ever theoretical misgivings to justify what you want. i sent him a tell in good faith and worked with him on what jobs we would have , attempted to acquire 2 brds and a ideal party set up but no one wants to exp to collect data so i took what i could get by offering currency to others.

Seeing how ive out parsed 17 other players COMBINED in a abyssea alliance party before ( and yes i can post that log also) i was thoroughly impressed with his performance. that being said ill leave an open challenge to any redmage who thinks they can do a better job to step up to the plate. Your party Your mob type etc. You can even Pick if i come war or monk ill run the parse you can get others so there's copy's of the data idc. But until someone else steps up he stands as the only redmage with the balls to do so and gets my respect for it. all the rest of you crying about sub optimal gear are just looking for an excuse.

P.S. better hurry im working on my Ukon for my war and already got my Ebody+1 with augments!

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Originally Posted by TybudX

The melee RDM side seems to think that we magically stop casting spells, like... ever.

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Oh yeah, you never stop casting. *eyeroll*

Example

I mean, he was so important he had to be a mule to do his casting load.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Oh yeah, you never stop casting. *eyeroll*

Example

I mean, he was so important he had to be a mule to do his casting load.

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Oh yeah, and that COR, prime example of playing it to the limit, right? What is your point, though? Do you think RDM should even be able to melee VW mobs right now?

No my point is the anti-melee argument is just as sucessptible for reality checks as the pro melee side.

Cut the hyperbole.

As far as the when's and hows of when RDM should be able to function in the front line, that should be up to discussion, right?

Low tier NMs and Fodder mobs are easily within the limits IMO. But I think if RDM is going to contribute anything to the front lines on mobs harder than that, they're going to need something a bit more unique unless the group is overkill on tanking and curing capacity. Which, there are some groups like that.

There's a lot of claims of 'cant and can' going around that everyone wants to try to prove or disprove, but that can be a topic on its own, going around, getting accurate data on how things work or don't work for RDMs that DO pratice frontlining, and confirming/denying their claims.

It doesn't have to be a constant invasion of OTHER threads to harass players who don't play your preferred style.

Believe me when I say most people, don't play to the level you expect them to, that goes for all jobs and all styles.

The standards a lot of the forums try to enforce is nothing short of elitism, and it's frankly kind of upsetting. You can always make considerations about the absolute peak performance if you wish, that's fine. But forcing that expectation on others when you don't know the context in which they play is blind and arrogant.

So let's chill out about it. I don't care who's doing the attacks or counter-attacks in arguments but it needs to stop. It's a pointless derail.

Cause all we're doing is cutting each other down in this thread and both sides end up saying stupid crap in the process. Nobody's perfect no one method is going to be for everyone, and SE's already stated they're not going to be neglecting either aspect. So the bickering really is just there for people's personal gratification.

I'd prefer we try to have a positive spin on things, because we're all playing to enjoy ourselves, and if not, then why do you bother paying to play?

A better discussion to be having is the when's and hows. Not the should's and whys. Because no matter how had you guys argue it down, Front Line RDMS aren't going away. Why not just carve out a good niche for them, and move the discussion to how a RDM could be more attractive and functional in that niche, and what various rewards could be deamed for it?

I for one would like to see some good use for things like Walk of Echoes, hopefully with a few more battlefield type events that will give rewards that are in context for that or similar events. That way you don't have to worry about RDMs going into events that are back-line orientated wanting to lot on Melee gear and rewards. Keep it all in context to what they're doing.

my ears are burning. <3 you too gokku.


i'm just thinking out loud but.... even IF i only beat that blu and war because they "sucked"... would they get laughed out of a party?

trust me.. i hate "that guy" meleeing with his joyeuse and errant body even more than you do.. i've been fighting against "his" reputation for years. but we're not ALL that guy.. my rdm was never flagged up and subbing nin at the same time.. ever.... yet people act like i came to there house and punched there child the second i advocate anything other than a staff :\

also, can we drop the conspiracy theory around the parse? it was shown in it's entirety. pretty hard to game the results when you disclose EVERYTHING. i mean if he'd just posted final % with no context (skeletons!) then maybe you'd have a case. example: if counter is an issue, the parse shows counter dmg... just remove that from his total?


it wasn't an epeen thing anyway, did anybody think i was gonna win? i just wanted to put some real numbers into the discussion. people were screaming everything from 80% to 10%. at least now we have a baseline to argue from.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I'd prefer we try to have a positive spin on things, because we're all playing to enjoy ourselves, and if not, then why do you bother paying to play?

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Wait, this is why we're playing? I thought we were playing to make other people enjoy themselves less. Dang. Back to the drawing board for me. Time to delete my 4 dozen Diaga macros for every situation. Dang.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Wait, this is why we're playing? I thought we were playing to make other people enjoy themselves less. Dang. Back to the drawing board for me. Time to delete my 4 dozen Diaga macros for every situation. Dang.

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I knew my macro palette was missing something.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

I knew my macro palette was missing something.

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I recommend putting it right next to whatever sleep spells you like to use. In the case of Red Mage, between Sleep I and Sleep II is an excellent spot.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

i'm just thinking out loud but.... even IF i only beat that blu and war because they "sucked"... would they get laughed out of a party?

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This is one way to look at it, now that you mention it. The Blue Mage was worse than mine and mine is pretty bad, but he wasn't wielding the finest club his moghouse had to offer and he wasn't trying to whack things while wearing Mahatma Slops. I assume he would remain securely lodged in most parties.

As for the Warrior, I'm now thinking that maybe the question was rhetorical and I'm too high on painkillers to get that, because he'd definitely remain in any given pick-up organization.

Also, I think it's awesome that you went into the parse looking for numbers in general rather than trying to wring out one or two more percent. You're a cool guy and I hope you and Gokku get together for something similar after Temper is released.

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The standards a lot of the forums try to enforce is nothing short of elitism, and it's frankly kind of upsetting. You can always make considerations about the absolute peak performance if you wish, that's fine. But forcing that expectation on others when you don't know the context in which they play is blind and arrogant.

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Nobody is setting some super standard here for gimps to live up to. I fully understand that there are people out there that are barely capable of keeping up the pace of that RDM mule in the video you posted, but do you seriously think the answer to them being shitty players is to make their melee worthwhile on harder NMs? So that they can auto-attack away while they don't nuke, don't debuff, don't reapply buffs, etc? If you can run yourself out of MP between Converts with whatever support you have, and nobody is going to die if you don't hMP and start spamming cures again, go ahead and melee whatever the fuck you want. I don't care if it's a fodder mob or a tier IV VW mob. More power to you.

What I don't like is people asking for changes or boosts to RDMs melee capabilities when there are only nine levels left to go. Sorry, four levels left to go, and thank you RDM melee crowd for getting us all stuck with Temper on a job that has no real way to use it. It's funny, I'm sure if RDM had gotten Fencer instead there would have been a lot less complaining from the pro-melee side. Situational and mostly useless, vs. a (minimum) 5% increase in melee damage across the board? Yeah, complain about that one a little more. Any real melee job would f***ing kill for a flat out 5% increase in damage.

I would have kicked both of those Parse gimps (the WAR and BLU) from my party if they had ever managed to get into it somehow, assuming I actually gave a crap about their contribution to the group. I have no problem with leeching as long as it doesn't negatively affect me in some way, and that's essentially what they'd be doing.

For the record, I also wouldn't kick Doom from my party since he's proven to be competent at what he does, assuming I don't straight up need him to be doing something else while he's whacking things. Your average Melee Red Mage, or at least the picture that the community has come to enjoy of one, is a full teal joyeuse-swinging retard who uses fast blade, refuses to cast any spells on anyone but themselves, and doesn't gear swap.

Gimp players are gimp and playing with retards is never a good idea, but a retard who casts haste and cures is a million times more useful than a retard who tries to attack things with a B rank weapon, no melee traits, and no melee gear. If we absolutely have to deal with the lowest common denominator, playing Magical Rdm is definitely a safer bet.

As anyone with Corsair leveled knows, you have a lot more options on how to play your job to fit your style when you're actually good at it.

The rdm melee croud is proud of temper, but we felt 5% is NOT sufficient when many other jobs get superior results at lower levels that require 0 effort to upkeep, additionally its those that want us to not melee who are truely complaining versus our suggestions to see it improved.

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Originally Posted by TybudX

but do you seriously think the answer to them being shitty players is to make their melee worthwhile on harder NMs? So that they can auto-attack away while they don't nuke, don't debuff, don't reapply buffs, etc?

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Wow, it's like you're not even reading what anybody is saying. Not surprising.

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What I don't like is people asking for changes or boosts to RDMs melee capabilities when there are only nine levels left to go. Sorry, four levels left to go, and thank you RDM melee crowd for getting us all stuck with Temper on a job that has no real way to use it.

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You seem to be under the impression that the updates are going to stop once we hit 99. If it worries you so much that Red Mage won't get any more magical buffs then go make a new thread. I don't understand why you people need to keep acting like a victim. Take some damn responsibility and quit acting like everything is the big bad boogeyman melee RDM's fault.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

The rdm melee croud is proud of temper, but we felt 5% is NOT sufficient when many other jobs get superior results at lower levels that require 0 effort to upkeep, additionally its those that want us to not melee who are truely complaining versus our suggestions to see it improved.

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Comparing a Red Mage melee spell to a Warrior trait is silly. Warriors melee. That's all they do. If you want to make a fair comparison, compare Red Mage melee buffs to White Mage melee buffs.

Anybody who isn't happy with a 5% increase in their DoT from a single spell or ability... I can't finish this sentence without having the whole post modded. *** . You think a healthy balance is making it on par with the same trait as a job that doesn't bring anything to the table except damage? So much for hybrid class. I tell you what, I'll trade you whatever WAR's next JA is for Temper.

And yeah, updates are going to keep coming, sure. SE has an awesome track record of making warranted changes to the game over the years. I have faith that they will get to work on all that job balancin' that needs to be done, once they roll out 99.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I would have kicked both of those Parse gimps (the WAR and BLU) from my party if they had ever managed to get into it somehow, assuming I actually gave a crap about their contribution to the group. I have no problem with leeching as long as it doesn't negatively affect me in some way, and that's essentially what they'd be doing.

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Yeah, by my standards they would have both either been promptly ejected or sent one-at-a-time to "solo pearlescent light" (on Hanuman, Hedjedjet, a Tier II VNM if I thought it could kill them, etc.) until they felt sad and angry and left. However, I'd never actively make a pick-up party in the first place so I'm not sure my standards are fit to judge such a beast.

It just feels weird to me to judge something that I wouldn't do by my standards, although I totally agree with your judgements.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

For the record, I also wouldn't kick Doom from my party since he's proven to be competent at what he does, assuming I don't straight up need him to be doing something else while he's whacking things. Your average Melee Red Mage, or at least the picture that the community has come to enjoy of one, is a full teal joyeuse-swinging retard who uses fast blade, refuses to cast any spells on anyone but themselves, and doesn't gear swap.

Gimp players are gimp and playing with retards is never a good idea, but a retard who casts haste and cures is a million times more useful than a retard who tries to attack things with a B rank weapon, no melee traits, and no melee gear. If we absolutely have to deal with the lowest common denominator, playing Magical Rdm is definitely a safer bet.

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I remember the first time I met this dude. It was actually pretty well into my FFXI career. Treasures of Aht Urhgan had been out for a little while and I was leveling Blue Mage. I had just learned Magic Fruit a few levels ago. This was a very good thing, because that fellow seemed to have never used his scroll of Cure IV.

He did, however, know En-Aero. He was casting it because it was Windsday. We were fighting Puks. After some time, I guess when the day changed, he switched to another en-spell but the damage to my will to exist had been done.

I unplugged my modem after about a half hour. I think some kind of experience ring was still active on me.

I prefer to think that this one awful Red Mage is exactly that. One guy who is so awful that he is somehow multiple characters on multiple servers. He is the avatar of awful, who carried awfulness with him and leaves awfulness in his wake. A folk "hero" of awfulness.

I have the opposite experience with lowest common denominators, though. In my experience, somebody thick as a brick tends to flat-out wander off when set to a task as "dull" as providing support. I'd rather such a simple soul just engage the monster in full Teal so I know what I'm getting right out of the bag, with the bonus that the problem will probably "go away" if I choose not to cure it.

I guess what I'm saying in a really roundabout and opioid-dulled way is that I'd be shocked if there were any daft people who could do anything other than auto-engage to much effect; so I feel there is no "safe" role for an incompetent player. Other than soloing Hanuman and other not-total-joke timed spawn monsters in Abyssea. I speak with the voice of experience when I say they're super at that.

I'm not happy about it, honestly. You guys are like "If you're not happy about a 5% melee improvement..." When you completely neglect the fact that guess what, RDM comes packed with 15% haste in the form of a spell, something that's often taken for granted by Melee that they always have on them by default, yet, it is far, FAR more substantial than a Brutal Earring.

But what puts me on pause and perplexes me for the moment is how Camate pretty much said "It stacks with everything." Making me wonder if it stacks with multi-attack weapons like Joyeuse. A 5% chance of adding to an OA# that also can add to a weapon skill hit is somewhat more significant. Half of a DA trait may not be so, not given the lack of pure per-hit damage RDM has.

I'm sure a Warrior with (near)Capped pDif would love an additional 5% double attack (if they're not already hitting the cap.) due to how nice that great axe hits for.

But I'm honestly at this point hoping some of the WS fixes gives RDM some more substantial WS numbers otherwise it really won't be all that much of an impact. Every bit is appreciated, but that doesn't quite sate my thirst for more balancing on our Martial end.

Temper is going to be adjusted to increase with enhancing magic skill somehow, so it's going to be more than 5% when it's implemented. Nobody knows how much more and it's really pointless to guess, but it will be more than 5%.

Camate mentions it here. I guess it's not active on the test server yet?

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

... you completely neglect the fact that guess what, RDM comes packed with 15% haste in the form of a spell, something that's often taken for granted by Melee that they always have on them by default, yet, it is far, FAR more substantial than a Brutal Earring.

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Nobody is taking Haste for granted. Then again, nobody is taking Brutal Earring for granted, either. Last I checked it was a staple TP piece, and one of the best WS earrings in the game.

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But what puts me on pause and perplexes me for the moment is how Camate pretty much said "It stacks with everything." Making me wonder if it stacks with multi-attack weapons like Joyeuse.

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More than likely it functions exactly like DA trait.

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I'm sure a Warrior with (near)Capped pDif would love an additional 5% double attack (if they're not already hitting the cap.) due to how nice that great axe hits for.

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It's good enough that 3 Att and 1% DA on an earring is better than anything except Brutal Earring.

Rather simply, upkeep aside, Temper justifies a higher activation when you consider the spells you should be expecting the RDM to cast. Every single time they do that, they're losing attack rounds. Every single time they do that, they're losing ground against the accepted damage dealers and perpetuating the stereotype regardless of how hard they try. I'm sure at some point you could correlate a required amount of DA and Fast Cast to basically emulate single attacking consistently, but I strongly doubt that'd come from Temper alone.

Either way, I've long since been saying the average RDM needs to be able to graduate past the Joyeuse. The D35 is showing its age for WS and DoT, but it's hard to give up on the raw TP. Making it possible to achieve 25% DA or more through gear and Temper starts opening the door for some of the more accessible swords now knocking on the D60s. Assuming the WS adjustments are decent, this cumulative effect can help eliminate some of the current mediocrity. Still, it's funny seeing some DDs think that RDM would suddenly steal their job with a 10-15% Temper, or that it breaks the class in general.

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Originally Posted by TybudX

Oh yeah, and that COR, prime example of playing it to the limit, right? What is your point, though? Do you think RDM should even be able to melee VW mobs right now?

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If you think this, if you actually think this, you are either trolling or haven't even bothered reading any of the previous 130+ pages of this thread. This argument has been put to rest more times than I can bother counting.

The answer is no.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

trust me.. i hate "that guy" meleeing with his joyeuse and errant body even more than you do.. i've been fighting against "his" reputation for years. but we're not ALL that guy.. my rdm was never flagged up and subbing nin at the same time.. ever.... yet people act like i came to there house and punched there child the second i advocate anything other than a staff :\

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This is something I don't think a lot of the anti-melee crowd seems to understand about the pro-melees. Those of us RDM's who are serious about melee, we get irritated and annoyed by those Joyeuse/Errant/full time AF melee RDM's worse than you guys do. They are half-assing it(less than half, actually) and only helping to further the negative stigma.

I've melee'd along with other random melee RDM's on magian trials, and seeing them melee in full teal/AF/etc hurts my soul. On these trials it's mostly trash mobs, so I don't give them a hard time. But really, I do get tired of seeing an Almace wielding RDM getting pummeled, while I run in to help them with my Blau Dolch/Evisc(sad, I know).

It's just like any other aspect of this game; if you don't bother to gear properly, or put an ounce of effort into it, then yes you're going to suck.

It's even worse when the mage-geared melee's actually whine about doing so little damage. I saw a RDM/whm in a Aby worm pt in full AF1 gear, single wielding a sword, and crying over not hitting very hard... That's the kind of stereotype we're working against.

Tbh Joyeuse died at 90 for me when I realized the magian swords I was building for Rdm and Blu were better than it in overall damage. Now only my War uses it for red procing since I don't have a Ridill.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

If you think this, if you actually think this, you are either trolling or haven't even bothered reading any of the previous 130+ pages of this thread. This argument has been put to rest more times than I can bother counting.

The answer is no.

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Why:

Post a video showing all the downtime a RDM mule had, as if melee would have been it's best option?
Post a video with a RDM mule getting lots of downtime against a VW mob?
Post a video of a RDM mule getting lots of downtime while a COR mule is getting the same amount of ridiculous downtime?

You had to have thought you were doing something clever by posting that video, but all you did was make yourself look like a twit. I'm not trolling you at all, either, I really do think you are an idiot. Sorry for not spelling it out more clearly.

edit - I incorrectly attributed the video that was posted to Rayik when it was Hyrist that posted it. I'm not changing my original post because I'm not a back pedaling douche like that.

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Originally Posted by TybudX

Why:

Post a video showing all the downtime a RDM mule had, as if melee would have been it's best option?
Post a video with a RDM mule getting lots of downtime against a VW mob?
Post a video of a RDM mule getting lots of downtime while a COR mule is getting the same amount of ridiculous downtime?

You had to have thought you were doing something clever by posting that video, but all you did was make yourself look like a twit. I'm not trolling you at all, either, I really do think you are an idiot. Sorry for not spelling it out more clearly.

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What are you talking about? I never posted a video...

More proof you aren't even reading the posts in this thread. Take your trolling elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Rayik

What are you talking about? I never posted a video...

More proof you aren't even reading the posts in this thread. Take your trolling elsewhere.

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I guess it was Hyrist, sorry. Point stands, my remarks in response were clearly sarcastic. Somebody trying to use that video as an example of how much downtime RDMs had during tougher NM or HNM type fights, but it's a stupid example at best due to all the things I previously mentioned.

edit - If that's not clear, how could you possibly think what I said in response to your response was serious?

And by the way, I have no problem with RDM meleeing when the condition is right. The way I figure it, if a COR can melee for TP, a RDM can melee for TP. If the COR isn't up front, the RDM shouldn't be up front. I don't see any reason why SE can't release gear with good combat stats that has RDM on them, and in fact they seem to be doing that a lot more lately. I just get irked seeing so many stupid and either useless or overpowered ideas getting tossed around when most of the pro-melee RDMs are blind to the things they are already getting. I don't think altering RDMs' core job mechanics are the right way to go about making it better at melee... COR is a prime example of a job that does just fine as a DD based mostly on gear selection. It helps that they have a strong buffer present at all times, but honestly RDM shouldn't function as a 'good melee DD' without strong buffs. It should just be functional. Go look at how COR melee stacks up when they don't have outside buffs, not just their own. They are terrible without Dia II/III, Haste, etc. Asking for RDM to be stronger than COR without any outside intervention is too much, in my opinion.

And I know what's coming next. Look at COR damage even when they are doing ranged TP vs. RDM damage when they nuke, blah blah blah. COR does two thing: Rolls and damage. They can cure, via support job, but so can WAR or MNK or any other job. RDM has native spells that it is best off using from a distance, supplemented with nukes or healing as necessary. The obvious division of labour is right there in front of you.

Back pedaling would be changing my post to pretend I said something I didn't. Slandering in spoken out loud in public; this could be seen as libelous. I made a mistake in that he didn't post the video, but my assessment was otherwise spot on.

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Originally Posted by TybudX

Back pedaling would be changing my post to pretend I said something I didn't. Slandering in spoken out loud in public; this could be seen as libelous. I made a mistake in that he didn't post the video, but my assessment was otherwise spot on.

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You quoted the wrong person.... Thus the whole post was false and not spot on.

PS. Perhaps you should reread the rules you agreed to when you joined this forum, insulting people is not allowed, this isn't BG.

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Originally Posted by TybudX

edit - I incorrectly attributed the video that was posted to Rayik when it was Hyrist that posted it. I'm not changing my original post because I'm not a back pedaling douche like that.

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And you still left my quote there, even though the rest of your response is falsely aimed at it. Get out of here with that stuff, man. Hello Ignore button.

Ty's been on my ignore list after I realized the bulk of the post history was either inflammatory or blocked afterward by an Admin.

Again, there's no point for hyperbole here.

The video was put to make a point that "RDM playing to it's best." is not only grosely subjective, but often downright unnecessary. Again, a RDM was to help and the job done by him could have been done as a mule, that's not an effective argument for a caster RDM. Trying to say that they never stop casting or that their job in endgame is horrendously busy.

This isn't ToAU anymore.

Anyways. Talking about the flaws in RDM's buffing game isn't for this thread, as the topic is about melee.

I'm still not too keen on SE stating that they won't tie in any of our debuffing aspect to our melee. On fodder mobs, debuffs get to really have a lasting effects save for Dia which helps for faster kills. Tieing it into our melee gives a bit more flexibility onto our debuffing role without having to worry about giving RDM's 'AoEs' That SE seems to be so scared of giving.

Still, seeing that they're going to be improving Temper to increase with Enhancing skill helps their idea on damage. There's just too little info to go on at this point though.

I dunno Hyrist. Mules don't seem like a good basis for making judgements about much of anything. I did Voidwatch last night and I was chain casting the whole night long, to the point where I mistook an empty mp pool for getting hit with stun or petrify a few times. Take that with a grain of salt, but that's how things played out.

Ok, if I give that to you, just off the basis that I used a mule as an example there are two glaring flaws in that argument.

First, you give no context as to your fight. You could have been trying to run it understaffed or just been blowing your MP pool to blow your MP pool.

Second, Voidwatch is not the whole of Final Fantasy XI. It is a single NM Tree in a game FULL of NM trees among other events. You might be casting non stop for one (_)NM and be twittering your thumbs for another. That's just how the game works at it's most basic. This is why the context neglected in point 1 is much more important.

Note: Neither of these RDMs are mules, nor are they chaincasting the entire fight.

So while using mules as an extreme example might not have been the best example, it does show how far a RDM can end up with their hands in their pockets, even in Voidwatch. That's not necessarily a bad thing if they're trying to stay ready for stun, or have a specific role they need to do. They don't NEED to be chain casting all the time.

So let's not state that you never pause in your casts all the time every time.

I'm just trying to keep this conversation down on the level with one another. It's great to be in situations that you're busy if all you want to do is cast. But it's not an overall standard for the game, especially currently.

If anything this also kinda points out something about Debuffs. It's difficult when there's multiple RDMs to keep themselves going around when there are multiples, except for the case of stun due to the timer (though as I stated elsewhere, it doesn't have to be the RDM who stuns.) Having many of them makes the duties lighter for one of them and when they are present it really shows. (Though, it's the only way to stack up fully powered Slows, Paralyzes, and Blinds due to the merit system.)

But in these particular situations, I don't think RDM has enough tools to convince them to go Melee either, though Savelle might disagree depending on the context. The idea of a "Durable person dealing damage." would be more appealing if the emphasis on skillchaining was higher.

Wah wah wah, I didn't fraps the fight for you and write a thesis on it. I'm sorry, ok?