[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

I just wish we could decide as a community to be more general with shouts. Shout for DD or Support or Healer. I'm so sick of seeing,

"Tenzen Normal Do You Need It? 4/6 Bard Samurai"

"Morimar Basalt Fields Delve Do You Need It? 4/6 Bard Samurai or Monk"

"SKCNM Normal Do You Need It 3/6 White Mage Paladin Samurai"

There's a sampling of some of the shouts I saw last night. It's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Mefuki

I just wish we could decide as a community to be more general with shouts. Shout for DD or Support or Healer. I'm so sick of seeing,

"Tenzen Normal Do You Need It? 4/6 Bard Samurai"

"Morimar Basalt Fields Delve Do You Need It? 4/6 Bard Samurai or Monk"

"SKCNM Normal Do You Need It 3/6 White Mage Paladin Samurai"

There's a sampling of some of the shouts I saw last night. It's ridiculous.

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Yes I know. They act like you need such specific set ups for everything.

I quit paying attention to shouts a long time ago except for the occasional WKR where I don't have to worry about dealing with that kind of nonsense.

Just to add: I once watched a samurai go crazy because someone brought his beastmaster buddy along for SKCNM. A battlefield you could probably solo.... duo for sure. But that didn't matter to him. Instead he wanted to throw a tantrum about a job he didn't approve of being in the group. It was really annoying and when the samurai died I forgot where my raise spell was.

We went on to beat the battlefield easily while he took a dirt nap.

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Originally Posted by Dale

We've already gone over this so there is no need to repeat it. We just disagree. Because it's not math that is responsible for certain jobs not getting invites on this game. It's because of, yes - player mentalities like yourself :)

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Wow I swear this is personal attack. I HAVE invited DD jobs that did less than half of dmg of another SAM in the same pt many, many, many times in my life, stop accusing me for not inviting ppl.

I just have to point out, some ppl weren't happy in the same pt(and it wasn't me, I was perfectly fine with it) and had an unhappy playing experience because of it.....you know, they played the game for entertainment and ended up not having fun cuz someone else did less than half the dmg.

It seems that you just decided that whoever doesn't invite others has some sort of "player mentality" that's bad for the community, when ppl just want to have fun.....but fun is subjective, for many ppl having one person do less than half dmg of another DD is not an enjoyable playing experience.

IMO, in the end you're no different from those who exclude others. You just believe how you enjoy the game is right and everyone else is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Dale

It wasn't legit according to you maybe. But I found it perfectly legit. You have to take into account enmity and the job's ability to withstand damage before you can call a job over-powered. I know you want to just base everything around damage and ignore everything else. But I'm not like that.

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It is not legit because we're comparing SAM with other melee jobs that has 0 advantage in enmity/defense aspect, such as DRK and WAR. If you're comparing SAM with PLD or RNG, then PLD and RNG can stand out in enmity/defensive playstyle aspect. But that's not the case with SAM v.s another melee....SAM does not take more dmg than other melee, and it deals more dmg, therefore defense/enmity is completely irrelevant in this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Dale

They were done away with because people were ostracizing all of the support-style classes because they didn't do as much damage. Very similar to what is going on here. Because jobs that don't do as much damage as others usually have other elements to them - which is why SE designed them to do less damage in the first place.

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Except certain jobs in this game doesn't do as much dmg AND it doesn't have any special element that makes them stand out.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Wow I swear this is personal attack. I HAVE invited DD jobs that did less than half of dmg of another SAM in the same pt many, many, many times in my life, stop accusing me for not inviting ppl.

I just have to point out, some ppl weren't happy in the same pt(and it wasn't me, I was perfectly fine with it) and had an unhappy playing experience because of it.

It seems that you just decided that whoever doesn't invite others has some sort of "player mentality" that's bad for the community, when ppl just want to have fun.....and fun is subjective, for many ppl having one person do less than half dmg of another DD is not an enjoyable playing experience.

IMO, in the end you're no different from those who exclude others. You just believe what you think is right and everyone else is wrong.

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I am just going by what you have told me

Earlier you said you would kick me out of your group if I chose to use a sword and shield rather a Great Sword because I wouldn't compare as well to a Samurai in terms of damage. You also continuously try to defend people excluding other jobs just because they do less damage by pointing to math and saying that somehow justifies it.

So if you want me to have a different impression of you, I would suggest not saying things like this. ^^

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Originally Posted by Afania

It is not legit because we're comparing SAM with other melee jobs that has 0 advantage in enmity/defense aspect, such as DRK and WAR. If you're comparing SAM with PLD or RNG, then PLD and RNG can stand out in enmity/defensive playstyle aspect. But that's not the case with SAM v.s another melee....SAM does not take more dmg than other melee, and it deals more dmg, therefore defense/enmity is completely irrelevant in this discussion.
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That post I made about Samurais and enmity wasn't aimed at you or in reference to any comparisons you were trying to make. I was explaining why I didn't see Samurais as being over-powered and explained why to another poster.

Scroll up and you will notice the post I made about Samurai was not directed at you or any of the arguments you were trying to make. So of course it's not going to be in the same context as your post. It was never meant to be.

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Originally Posted by Dale

I am just going by what you have told me

Earlier you said you would kick me out of your group if I chose to use a sword and shield rather a Great Sword because I wouldn't compare as well to a Samurai in terms of damage. You also continuously try to defend people excluding other jobs just because they do less damage by pointing to math and saying that somehow justifies it.

So if you want me to have a different impression of you, I would suggest not saying things like this.

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I don't need you to have a "different impression", I only ask for respect toward others having a different opinion about having fun in this game. Some ppl do not have fun playing with a sword and shield PLD in the same pt you know.

If you see someone exclude others, just don't say anything. You don't "win" nor become a better person by blaming them, you're just doing the same thing.

IMO, it's not wrong to pick ppl to pt with, since everyone paid their $13 a month and who you pt with heavily affect whether you have fun or not. If you're not happy with ppl excluding others, pay for their sub fee.

And yes math justifies everything, it's the rule of the universe.....and game design.

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Originally Posted by Afania

I don't need you to have a "different impression", I only ask for respect toward others having a different opinion about having fun in this game. Some ppl do not have fun playing with a sword and shield PLD in the same pt you know.

If you see someone exclude others, just don't say anything. You don't "win" nor become a better person by blaming them, you're just doing the same thing.

IMO, it's not wrong to pick ppl to pt with, since everyone paid their $13 a month and who you pt with heavily affect whether you have fun or not. If you're not happy with ppl excluding others, pay for their sub fee.

And yes math justifies everything, it's the rule of the universe.....and game design.

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I'm not trying to win or be a better person.

I'm here to counter this view that math justifies everything. I find this kind of mentality destructive to the game and wholly unnecessary.

Not all of us believe people should be invited or not invited based on math and how much damage they can do. And we can express that opinion on this forum without being expected to pay for anyone else's subscription. I'm not sure what else to tell you.

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Originally Posted by Dale

I'm not trying to win or be a better person.

I'm here to counter this view that math justifies everything. I find this kind of mentality destructive to the game and wholly unnecessary.

Not all of us believe people should be invited or not invited based on math and how much damage they can do. And we can express that opinion on this forum without being expected to pay for anyone else's subscription. I'm not sure what else to tell you.

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Again, that's your opinion, I get it. But stop trying to personal attack or play the blame game just because someone has a different opinion.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Again, that's your opinion, I get it. But stop trying to personal attack or implying something negative just because someone has a different opinion.

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I have treated you with respect, especially considering some of the comments you have tossed my way. A personal attack is when I insult you - not describe you as having the kind of mentality I am talking about that leads to people exclude others from groups based on math and how much damage they can do.

And considering you have said over and over that you don't see anything wrong with this kind of mentality in the first place and go out of your way to defend it constantly, I really have no idea why you are trying to play the victim here and accusing me of personally attacking you.

Also, you were the aggressor in this conversation. You were the one who called me out. Don't blame me if I defend myself when you do it and then behave as if it was me picking on you.

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Originally Posted by Dale

I have treated you with respect, especially considering some of the comments you have tossed my way. A personal attack is when I insult you - not describe you as having the kind of mentality I am talking about that leads to people exclude others from groups based on math and how much damage they can do.

And considering you have said over and over that you don't see anything wrong with this kind of mentality in the first place and go out of your way to defend it constantly, I really have no idea why you are trying to play the victim here and accusing me of personally attacking you.

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It's more like the way you worded it were extremely negative, while I don't view "being exclusive" a bad thing....it's just human nature, therefore it's not good nor bad. I just live with it, deal with it, instead of trying to change it or play the blame game.

Ppl exclude others based on math.....and personality, what else do you expect lol. Do you expect a perfect world where everyone happily accept each other with no drama? Not gonna happen, irl nor FFXI.

I think our biggest disagreement is actually not the exclusivity itself, but our opinion toward exclusivity....you view it as something negative and must be changed, I view as part of the human nature and it should stay that way.

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Originally Posted by Dale

Also, you were the aggressor in this conversation. You were the one who called me out. Don't blame me if I defend myself when you do it and then behave as if it was me picking on you.

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I called you out cuz you're focusing on the wrong side of the argument.....we're presenting an opinion toward the job balance, and you played the blame game again as if it's completely player's fault that the game design has issue that needs a fix.

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Originally Posted by Afania

It's more like the way you worded it were extremely negative, while I don't view "being exclusive" a bad thing....it's just human nature, therefore it's not good nor bad. I just live with it, deal with it, instead of trying to change it or point fingers.

Ppl exclude others based on math.....and personality, what else do you expect lol. Do you expect a perfect world where everyone happily accept each other with no drama? Not gonna happen, irl nor FFXI.

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If you think it's just human nature and there is nothing wrong with it: why then do you see it so negatively when I point it out? It seems to me if you really did feel it was justified to exclude others based on these reasons you wouldn't get so defensive when I disagree with it. So perhaps there is a part of you who feels it's wrong too :)

And no, I don't expect a perfect world. But I do expect a world where people don't treat video games like a business. That's not an unreasonable or naïve expectation in my estimation.

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Originally Posted by Afania

I called you out cuz you're focusing on the wrong side of the argument.....we're presenting an opinion toward the job balance, and you played the blame game again as if it's completely player's fault that the game design has issue that needs a fix.

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Except that I didn't do that. I explained my reasons as to why I didn't feel the Samurai was over-powered and didn't blame anyone for it.

It was a separate issue that lead me to blame obsessive players - and had to do with a beastmaster feeling they didn't contribute in a group. You are mixing two separate posts together to try and make it seem like I did something I didn't.