[dev1047] Thoughts/Feedback on "Legion"

@Arcon: You and I can be friends.

Aww.... Mahoro! How did I not meet you when I was on Lakshmi!?

Friend Count: 2

Gettin there...

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

I'm a career SMN and I'll be the first to admit SMN is extremely handicapped by its 45-second BP/JA timers in a way other jobs aren't, but I pretty much agreed with everything Arcon said above.

SMN always has a place in my LS's big-group activities. Here are just 7:

1) procs in VW
2) Perfect Defense for AV/ADL
3) another stun that surprisingly sticks longer than you'd think
4) holding mobs where death is meted out handily in ways not easily preventable (Aello, Ig-Alima, Botulus Rex, all Mantis)
5) EVA down and ATTK down debuffs that stick for quite awhile, and make a difference in some key VW fights
6) 5 minute AOE haste (assuming the SMN is well-geared/skilled)
7) Earthen Armor (Scherzo caps at 45%, what people WOULDN'T want a move that stacks with Scherzo to 80% mitigation?)

The people trying to compare it to a WAR are obviously going to find shortcomings....what melee wants to be compared to an Ukon WAR? SMN will never be DD on that level, because it would be too overpowered in solo situations. But what SMN does, it does well.

The biggest issue is that with temp items and spammable magic/WS, SMN got left behind because of the BP/JA timer. Hopefully SE will fix that.

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Those are all nice, but none of them scream *must have* or *OMG Awesome Sauce* and many of those interfere with each other due to that damn timer.

I don't hate pet jobs, I just really wish SE would get around to fixing them. In SMN's case just remove the damn BP timers so SMN can be awesome. That and make your summons have higher more specialized stats.

Remove the timer completely? No... that would be absurd. Doing that would make SMNs TOOOOOOOOO powerful for our own good. Think in terms of Abyssea for a second... if nothing else.

My Tarutaru SMN has 1800mp. Let's say on average my BPs cost 150mp and deal around 4k damage. What you're suggesting would turn me into a hate-free BLM with no casting time. I could effectively nuke back to back with Diamond Dust until my MP went dry... and then pop temps like ethers/elixers/dusts to keep it going... not to mention having a COR, BRD and RDM backing me up with refresh out the ying yang.

150 / 1800 = 12 BPs (not counting any form of refresh)

12 X 4000 = 52,000 damage in less than 1 minute.

You just turned a SMN into a brew without a timer.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Those are all nice, but none of them scream *must have* or *OMG Awesome Sauce* and many of those interfere with each other due to that damn timer.

I don't hate pet jobs, I just really wish SE would get around to fixing them. In SMN's case just remove the damn BP timers so SMN can be awesome. That and make your summons have higher more specialized stats.

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What IS a must have or OMG awesome sauce these days....besides possibly Wildfire COR, Ukon WAR, and WHM....

Not that I ever claimed those qualifiers for any of the SMN moves I listed, just listing that is why SMN always has a place in endgame stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

What IS a must have or OMG awesome sauce these days....besides possibly Wildfire COR, Ukon WAR, and WHM....

Not that I ever claimed those qualifiers for any of the SMN moves I listed, just listing that is why SMN always has a place in endgame stuff.

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Literally every job in the game can outdamage Avatars in a group situation (6+ people). It's going a bit beyond "Not the best".

Before I'm asked for proof, 1 word answer: Haste.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Literally every job in the game can outdamage

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Before I'm asked for proof

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Awe... but then how do we get you to math out 5 WHM + 1 BRD vs. 6 SMN? Pretty please with maple sugar on top?

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Awe... but then how do we get you to math out 5 WHM + 1 BRD vs. 6 SMN? Pretty please with maple sugar on top?

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Wait is that a serious question? 5 Mjollnirs with March+March+Minuet versus 6 Avatars? I know you know just how strong Whm can smack when they want to.

I'm referring to any single job versus any single Summoner with the other slots already filled anyways, as this is the only relevant comparison in large groups.

As expected your answer was sufficiently entertaining (although it didn't beat the projections on the very remote possibility of a serious, math filled beat down of current avatar mechanics against that of a group of haste boosted clerics).

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Wait is that a serious question?

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Perhaps I should have asked about four White Mages being able to beat the game? :D

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

5 Mjollnirs with March+March+Minuet versus 6 Avatars? I know you know just how strong Whm can smack when they want to.

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I dunno, those wily Summoners might be fighting stuff that is strong against blunt damage and isn't undead. :p Plus I'm pretty sure there are no Mjollnirs on my server yet.

This seems to be the biggest problem with getting SMN proper, good buffs. To many of the, get butt hurt when people give out the cold hard fact that SMN DD is lacking to any other job that can DD and go on about how awesome their job is instead of agreeing with the truth and asking for buffs to fix it.