Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

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Originally Posted by Miera

Oh dear, First you weren't happy about PUPs being a better front line job DD than SMNs and comparing the two totally different polar opposite jobs and now it's SAM... What's next RNG?

SAMs use Meditate to you know to weaponskill and skll chain while SMNs don't.

By the way, SAMs are not the love children of SE anymore. WARs, MNKs and NINs are. But mostly WARs..

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Do you have any reading comprehension? The topic in my post is "pros and cons on job abilities". The fact that SAM ended up in the post was just a random selection of the most similar job ability to mana cede.

PS. I would have no qualms comparing BLM Elemental Seal for magic accuracy to a RNGs sharpshot for ranged attack accuracy. Because I'd be comparing the job ability giving an accuracy bonus to your damage type, not BLM and RNG.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Do you have any reading comprehension? The topic in my post is "pros and cons on job abilities". The fact that SAM ended up in the post was just a random selection of the most similar job ability to mana cede.

PS. I would have no qualms comparing BLM Elemental Seal for magic accuracy to a RNGs sharpshot for ranged attack accuracy. Because I'd be comparing the job ability giving an accuracy bonus to your damage type, not BLM and RNG.

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How is Mana Cede and Meditate similar? One gives TP to the user and can be used as a subjob, while the other gives TP to the pet. How is it anywhere near similar in any way? Not even the jobs are similar at all (hint: one is a melee and one is a mage, I'll let you guess which one is which, which you will probably get wrong anyway).

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Originally Posted by Korpg

How is Mana Cede and Meditate similar? One gives TP to the user and can be used as a subjob, while the other gives TP to the pet. How is it anywhere near similar in any way? Not even the jobs are similar at all (hint: one is a melee and one is a mage, I'll let you guess which one is which, which you will probably get wrong anyway).

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They are similar in that their function is to provide TP. The source for which that TP gets place is different, and how that TP gets used is unrelated to the ability and not required to use said abilities (I don't HAVE to use my TP after meditating.. I can hold onto it and stare at the lovely numbers).

I believe this is the similarity Mala was talking about and she is correct. They are similar in they provides TP, for use, with another ability. They are dissimilar in how that TP is gained (meditate is over time, mana ceded is a mp to TP transfer) and who gets it player vs. avatar (though being an extension of the player, the avatar itself could arguably be called the player). The sam (or /sam) needs 100 tp to use his WS, the summoner doesn't require 100% TP to use a blood pact.

I'm all for one change to Mana Cede: 10 second recast.

Also, didn't we already list blood pact updates earlier in this thread? Or was that in another thread?

Retyping it all yet again:

Lunar cry: No moon phase dependency. Moon phase is impossible to effect. This is equal to playing COR and being unable to roll 11 unless it is full moon. It just doesn't work.

Lunar roar: Needs to be bigger and give a better chat text. Currently people claim it works, but says nothing. Personally I always thought it never hit because I never even saw the animation land on monsters next to fenrir.

Ecliptic Growl: No moon phase. Terrible idea. Might as well make piercing weapons useless unless it is earthsday. It is THAT dumb.

Ecliptic Howl: Same thing again, no moon phase.

Flaming Crush: Better additional fire damage. Currently it is more like "anti-fire reduction" since you do less damage than other avatars if the fire damage is resisted, instead of doing more damage when monsters are weak to fire.

Crimson Howl: Should be either 30 seconds of 25% attack bonus, or 15 minutes of 8% attack bonus. Short burst, or long low potency.

Rock Buster: Bind on a melee pact makes no sense. Change this to slow.

Megalith Throw: Because Rock Buster is no longer bind, make this one bind. Makes for a crappy "shadow bind" attack.

Earthen Ward: Better potency to compete with SCH Ascension stoneskin.

Earthen Armor: Make this say damage reduced when it helps. It is nicer to see text saying "Earthen Armor absorbs 340 damage" rather than just sit there and wonder "Did it do anything or did I waste MP and it is bugged?"

Slowga: Needs to either be slow II power, or slow power but stack with slow/elegy for massive slow, or deal damage while used. I've personally never seen anyone use ever.

Tidal Roar: Should deal some damage as well. Especially since it is not named "attack down-ga".

Aerial Armor: Should give utsusemi shadows rather than blink shadows. Nobody wants terrible blink.

Rush: Should be able to crit like all other 70 pacts.

Frost Armor: Should scale with level. At 90 it should do 50 damage in return. Preferably last 15 min.

Sleepga: Should be ice based sleep. Should be ranked same as sleepga II in priority.

Diamond Storm: Should deal additional damage.

Shock Strike: Should have no ready animation.

Rolling thunder: Should scale with level. About 40 damage per hit at 90, like Ifrit's ward.

Lightning armor: Should scale with level. 50 damage returned at 90. Should stun 1 second and go off 50% of the time.

Ruinous Omen: Should be a massive DoT effect rather than the pitiful 0.1% max HP damage it does.

Night Terror: Should deal double damage when used on sleeping monsters

Somnolence: Should be AOE

Nightmare: Should have scaled DoT. At level 90 it should do at least 25 HP per tick.

Noctoshield: Should scale with level. At 90 it should give at least 35 damage reduction.

Dream Shroud: No time of day dependency. Just a straight out MDB/MAB bonus.

Avatar's Favor: Should not have 20% damage penalty. Rather make it something like double spell recast.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I would use a few thousand mp to stun > reset > repeat. Not sure what you guys will do.

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You didn't understand what I said,

If the Ramuh must wait like all other avatars to perform the BP opposed to a drk/blm's spell "Stun" then I don't see much of a use for it to stun anything major.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

How is Mana Cede and Meditate similar? One gives TP to the user and can be used as a subjob, while the other gives TP to the pet. How is it anywhere near similar in any way? Not even the jobs are similar at all (hint: one is a melee and one is a mage, I'll let you guess which one is which, which you will probably get wrong anyway).

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Tannlore seems to be slightly smarter than you. And in all honesty, did you even ATTEMPT to look at the similarities, or did you only look at everything you could find that was different in an attempt to claim I'm wrong? (Sorry, but it is you who are wrong, as always.)

You call me negative, and you haven't ever tried to look positively on any of my posts. You are pretty much the definition of a kettle. (Unless you want to be the pot. I'm up for discussing this matter).

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Tannlore seems to be slightly smarter than you. [...]

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I R smartz! :D But if we are going to play pot and kettle game.. can I be fire? I mean after all they didn't get black by being in the clean sink! >:)

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Also, didn't we already list blood pact updates earlier in this thread? Or was that in another thread?

Retyping it all yet again:

Lunar cry: No moon phase dependency. Moon phase is impossible to effect. This is equal to playing COR and being unable to roll 11 unless it is full moon. It just doesn't work.

Lunar roar: Needs to be bigger and give a better chat text. Currently people claim it works, but says nothing. Personally I always thought it never hit because I never even saw the animation land on monsters next to fenrir.

Ecliptic Growl: No moon phase. Terrible idea. Might as well make piercing weapons useless unless it is earthsday. It is THAT dumb.

Ecliptic Howl: Same thing again, no moon phase.

Flaming Crush: Better additional fire damage. Currently it is more like "anti-fire reduction" since you do less damage than other avatars if the fire damage is resisted, instead of doing more damage when monsters are weak to fire.

Crimson Howl: Should be either 30 seconds of 25% attack bonus, or 15 minutes of 8% attack bonus. Short burst, or long low potency.

Rock Buster: Bind on a melee pact makes no sense. Change this to slow.

Megalith Throw: Because Rock Buster is no longer bind, make this one bind. Makes for a crappy "shadow bind" attack.

Earthen Ward: Better potency to compete with SCH Ascension stoneskin.

Earthen Armor: Make this say damage reduced when it helps. It is nicer to see text saying "Earthen Armor absorbs 340 damage" rather than just sit there and wonder "Did it do anything or did I waste MP and it is bugged?"

Slowga: Needs to either be slow II power, or slow power but stack with slow/elegy for massive slow, or deal damage while used. I've personally never seen anyone use ever.

Tidal Roar: Should deal some damage as well. Especially since it is not named "attack down-ga".

Aerial Armor: Should give utsusemi shadows rather than blink shadows. Nobody wants terrible blink.

Rush: Should be able to crit like all other 70 pacts.

Frost Armor: Should scale with level. At 90 it should do 50 damage in return. Preferably last 15 min.

Sleepga: Should be ice based sleep. Should be ranked same as sleepga II in priority.

Diamond Storm: Should deal additional damage.

Shock Strike: Should have no ready animation.

Rolling thunder: Should scale with level. About 40 damage per hit at 90, like Ifrit's ward.

Lightning armor: Should scale with level. 50 damage returned at 90. Should stun 1 second and go off 50% of the time.

Ruinous Omen: Should be a massive DoT effect rather than the pitiful 0.1% max HP damage it does.

Night Terror: Should deal double damage when used on sleeping monsters

Somnolence: Should be AOE

Nightmare: Should have scaled DoT. At level 90 it should do at least 25 HP per tick.

Noctoshield: Should scale with level. At 90 it should give at least 35 damage reduction.

Dream Shroud: No time of day dependency. Just a straight out MDB/MAB bonus.

Avatar's Favor: Should not have 20% damage penalty. Rather make it something like double spell recast.

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I agree with almost everything you said here, if they weren't common ideas to any good career Summoner I'd swear you were in my head, and be off to make a new tinfoil hat.

Maybe they could leave the moon phase/time of day mechanic, I feel with tweaking it could work. It a solid Baseline bonus to all effected stats, and seeing as they need a buff to potency anyway...

Ecliptic Growl would give a +8 to all stats base line, and an extra ~+6 STR VIT DEX full<------->new AGI INT MND CHR

Ecliptic Howl would give +20 to acc/eva regardless and an extra ~+15 to one or the other based on moon phase

Lunar Cry would work similar to E. Howl

Dream shroud could give 10% MAB/MDB with a ~+5% to either depending on time.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

I agree with almost everything you said here, if they weren't common ideas to any good career Summoner I'd swear you were in my head, and be off to make a new tinfoil hat.

Maybe they could leave the moon phase/time of day mechanic, I feel with tweaking it could work. It a solid Baseline bonus to all effected stats, and seeing as they need a buff to potency anyway...

Ecliptic Growl would give a +8 to all stats base line, and an extra ~+6 STR VIT DEX full<------->new AGI INT MND CHR

Ecliptic Howl would give +20 to acc/eva regardless and an extra ~+15 to one or the other based on moon phase

Lunar Cry would work similar to E. Howl

Dream shroud could give 10% MAB/MDB with a ~+5% to either depending on time.

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I agree with these buffs.