RNG Ammo

No new ammo as far as I can see.

If increasing ruszor fangs drop rate really is all SE did I think it's safe to say the "Dev team" is two guys with one Ipad. >.>

Yeah it's a case of "careful what you wish for".

They also added Ruszor Quivers, Oberon Bullet Pouches & the like to treasure casket drops, and possibly other sources as well. Don't go whining "They didn't do anything" before you know the full extent of what's come out. For all you people know, some of the crafting materials like Ruszor Fangs might come up as "Crap drops" in Voidwatch.

I hope that's not the case or ammo prices won't change since void seems to not have much popularity vs abyssea. But I guess a bandage fix is a start while we wait on 99.

14 ruszor fangs up atm on our server which will make 84 stacks of arrows if there are no hqs on the arrowheads or the arrows. With hq's you are looking at over 100 stacks of arrows on the auction house that you can make for about 5k a stack. Of course you need to have or know a bonecrafter, but at least arrows are there now even if they are still a bit of a pain to get.

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Originally Posted by Feliciaa

If increasing ruszor fangs drop rate really is all SE did I think it's safe to say the "Dev team" is two guys with one Ipad. >.>

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How so? If Ruszor arrows are the top arrows, and the problem was fangs had a 1% drop rate, then the problem is fixed. Theyre not gonna make infinite arrows for you to buy at 1g a piece.

if you dont know any bonecrafters or what not, thats your problem. its a MMO for a reason.

Fangs were not the only issue. You need multiple high lvl crafts to make the materials and then multiple high lvl crafts to make the arrows. Which usually means the cost will be high unless you can find some really nice people who are willing to stand around while you craft ammo and not ask for any gil in return.

Yes it's a MMO but this much effort just to make standard ammo for your current level is way over kill. Not to mention the cost/dmg ratio vs. other classes does not match up at all.

My hope is they stop trying to spread Ammo between soo many high lvl crafts and just make it a high lvl woodworking with 2 low lvl crafts. Or just get it over with and add a Ammo NPC like every other MMO already has.

It's not that hard to find any random clothcrafter to synth the fletchings, bonecrafter to synth the arrowheads, and then a woodworker to be in party to do the synergy. But perhaps I'm spoiled since I took the time to level woodworking to 100 on a second character (like a week), synergy to cap on 2 characters (like 4 days each), and have a brother who leveled bonecraft.

Regardless of how you obtain it, ammo represents a significantly larger series of hoops that Rangers have to jump through just to play the job, relative to all other jobs except Corsair. Most other DD's you can just go out and start damaging things. Ranger you HAVE to have ammo to even be functional. If Ranger's damage was significantly better than other jobs to match the effort, or it could DD without having to worry about taking damage from the mob, the cost would be a little more justified. But why should Rangers currently need to put so much more effort into the job for the same results as other DD (sometimes even less)?

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Originally Posted by Glecent

It's not that hard to find any random clothcrafter to synth the fletchings, bonecrafter to synth the arrowheads, and then a woodworker to be in party to do the synergy. But perhaps I'm spoiled since I took the time to level woodworking to 100 on a second character (like a week), synergy to cap on 2 characters (like 4 days each), and have a brother who leveled bonecraft.

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If that's all the time it took for you to get to 100 WW, then you a) have no job and b) have no friends outside of the game. No casual player (3 hr or less per day) is ever going to get WW to 100 in a week.

I always hate these "its so easy" time estimates from people that just play the game 24/7. There are many players that have grown with the game, got jobs and families and other responsibilities that no longer can play the long hours. We don't need that same time sinks any more with our limited playtime. And especially not a crafting time sink just for ammo.

Now I'll sit back for the inevitable. "but I have a life and friends and a 80 hr work week and still levelled WW in week, your just doing it wrong" reply.

Once again...
if the materials for synthesis are unavailable because they have a disgusting low drop rate, thats a problem on SE's end.

If you cant get your hands on the ammo cause you have no friends with WW/Synergy lvled (btw you dont even NEED synergy lvled to synth arrows, you just wont get any HQ's really), thats your problem.


When antlion arrows were tops, I spent like 3 hours farming those stupid antlions for jaws, then turned them into arrowheads. my WW mule is on the same POLID as my main (bonecraft) who is the char I have with synergy lvled. my other mule (diff polid) took the heads, went all the way to sandy to meet my WW mule, and synthed up all those antlion arrows with lv 10-15 synergy, when they were 33/66/99, I got maybe 5 HQ's out of 50 synths...but its doable. You dont really need synergy skill to do any synergizing.

That still isn't reasonable. When I equip a katana or dagger I don't need a consumable item for me to swing it. If a ranged weapon is going to require ammo then the ammo should be either dirt cheap/easy to obtain or powerful/serviceable enough to justify the extra pain in the ass.

It's price is justified because it has the benefit of shooting from outside AoE.

Of course, with enmity capping so easilly and mobs moving, as well as the damage being lower than a melees (thanks to haste), the benefit doesn't really equal the cost of ammo.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

It's price is justified because it has the benefit of shooting from outside AoE.

Of course, with enmity capping so easilly and mobs moving, as well as the damage being lower than a melees (thanks to haste), the benefit doesn't really equal the cost of ammo.

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Then explain to me bullet costs? According to SE's damage adjustment I'm supposed to shoot well within AoE range for max damage from a gun. If I have to stand in danger to use a gun and still can't keep up with other melee why are dark adaman bullets so damn expensive?

I would like to see useful changes made to ammo as well. It can be a bit ridiculous sometimes to even get ammo, forget the cost concerns. However, making it sold from a NPC isn't a for sure workable issue. When they made the universal tools on NIN and made them buyable at a NPC, it sounded like a great idea. Until you realize most of the tools are 1.5x-3x the cost of the AH individual tools. Not every solution is going to seem great. In the end though, I'm still quite happy with the tool resolution, but I know many who weren't.

Honestly though, this isn't 2007. I love the fact that not only does the dev team work on things that are useful, they actually listen to us as well. The thing is, if we let them know of a problem, they will come up with a solution they think works with what they desire. It's their game, not ours. I'd say just be happy they keep listening and continue to provide them with feedback, and a better come will hopefully come out of it.





This whole thing sounds lame, I'm sorry. I do mean it though.

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

Then explain to me bullet costs? According to SE's damage adjustment I'm supposed to shoot well within AoE range for max damage from a gun. If I have to stand in danger to use a gun and still can't keep up with other melee why are dark adaman bullets so damn expensive?

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Hi there, how are you? Good? Great. I explained the technical reasoning behind the absurd ammo cost. I never said I agreed with it. In fact, I insuinated that it was a load of bollocks. Would you care to actually read my post where I state "the benefit doesn't really equal the cost of ammo"?

ITT: "You're wrong. I didn't read what you wrote. We actually are arguing the same thing but you're still wrong."

Tools being 1.5x-3x the cost of the AH individual tools might be the case on Valefore but on Phoenix NPC tools are 3-5k cheaper then their AH counterpart. Also, a NPC would help set a baseline that could be affordable and not crazy over priced. Plus a crafter could still HQ and make profit off that and everyone wins.

It's 2011. Why is having the most basic function of a RNG only accessible to the rich?

Outside AoE would be justifiable if the enmity system wasn't still at level 75.

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Originally Posted by Mirabelle

If that's all the time it took for you to get to 100 WW, then you a) have no job and b) have no friends outside of the game. No casual player (3 hr or less per day) is ever going to get WW to 100 in a week.

I always hate these "its so easy" time estimates from people that just play the game 24/7. There are many players that have grown with the game, got jobs and families and other responsibilities that no longer can play the long hours. We don't need that same time sinks any more with our limited playtime. And especially not a crafting time sink just for ammo.

Now I'll sit back for the inevitable. "but I have a life and friends and a 80 hr work week and still levelled WW in week, your just doing it wrong" reply.

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I do have a life and friends but I don't work, I just go to college. May have taken 2 weeks, I'm not sure but it still did not take very long at all. It's easy to spam through arrows almost all the way to 90 and thanks to Abyssea the mats for level 90+ items are extremely cheap.

Add Antlion / Ruszor quivers to the Voidwatch / WoE chest pools.

As for ninja tools - which I know more about then I do arrows & bolts:

As a ninja main, there are 18 different tools (not including universal). Couple this with a tp set, nuke set, m.acc set, ws set, pdt set, mdt set, evasion set - you are sitting well and truly over your 80/80 slots. If not, you are damn close to it. Sure BLM's have it tough too - with various staves & obi's etc. These tools were a godsend.

Pretty sure SE hit the nail on the head with universal tools. I am also happy they aren't synthable (although slightly more expensive) - at least they are a solid price if you make the effort to run to Bastok. Do the same with Ammo and we are talking... Keep Antlion & Ruszors synth only - however create another arrow that is slightly less efficient as these, at a decent price from an NPC for us to at least use for TP - then switch over to our more expensive / annoying-as-hell-to-find arrows when we are popping a WS.

Anyone else thing Scavenge should be overhauled completely and make it dig up Temp items relevant for RNG(Swiftshot Tonic for example) and "Temporary Ammo". Ammo with comparable or better stats than currently available ammo to make it worthwhile JA to use endgame?

Was also thinking of a level 1 bullet/arrow/bolt with 0 DMG on it that has Recycle+100 on it that can be used for skillups for jobs that aren't RNG and lack acc bonus that want to cap their ranged skills. Also spending gil to skillup is painful for RNG as most of the ammo we spend gil on to initiate a ranged attack will end up missing due to low skill, thus wasted gil. A trainee bullet/arrow/bolt with Latent Effect: Recycle+100 would be awesome whereby the latent effect is activated when your skill is uncapped. I don't see how this could be taken advantage of seeing as how the damage rating would be 0 so the only damage you'd get is from the Bow/Gun/Xbow's DMG.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Outside AoE would be justifiable if the enmity system wasn't still at level 75.

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Get an Annihilator and use relic WS. Emnity problem solved :)

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Originally Posted by Washburn

Well, im bone sub and 80 synergy, so for me, the bonecrafter is only needed to make the heads, then from there i usually pay a wood worker to go eat dinner for a half hour while i make 3-4 stacks of quivers... Which helps if you do this in the nation that has the lead so you dont have to travel to quiver then go back to craft.
But yes, i suppose the crafters would be dubbed smart, but if ammo were cheaper, more people would be less intimidated by ranger and arrow sales would shoot up, no pun intended.

The real reason the synergized ammo is still so high is because most people don't know about the update that tripled the HQ results from making 33/66/99, to 99/198/297.

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I think the reason reason it's so high is because not many are interested in a tedious thing to do. While i'm not knocking synergy, sitting in 1 place to level it is such a hassle to a non crafter. That's why i TP scorpion and WS ruszor (yeah i'm cheap) to save time/money/energy.

So adaman ingots are now 70k. This means that at minimum (not counting fewell and firesand costs) a stack of bullets currently costs 35k. I love ranger, but I'm always wary to play it because I feel like I'm hindering my ability to upgrade my mythic. The enhance recycle effect on the beret helps, but it's not enough. Please please please fix this issue so we don't have to think twice about playing this job. You shouldn't be penalized for wanting to play it...

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Originally Posted by Helel

So adaman ingots are now 70k. This means that at minimum (not counting fewell and firesand costs) a stack of bullets currently costs 35k. I love ranger, but I'm always wary to play it because I feel like I'm hindering my ability to upgrade my mythic. The enhance recycle effect on the beret helps, but it's not enough. Please please please fix this issue so we don't have to think twice about playing this job. You shouldn't be penalized for wanting to play it...

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Yes while gil is easier than ever to obtain, SE has started throwing in a ton of gil sinks of late. Heavy metal plates, forgotten items, geodes and -ites, voiddust, etc are all competing for this gil over ammo. But I don't see SE changing things. They've really jumped the shark of late with their ideas and nothing for the better is happening at all.

The only reason I posted was because they said they were going to address this issue. It may have been on the COR forums, or in this very topic (I'm too lazy to check), but the fact is, they've made it WORSE. 70k per ingot? Seriously? I go through about 4-5 stacks per 3 hours of voidwatch. SE, do you really expect players to have to pay 100k/hour to play RNG?

I agree, the ammo situation is quite dire. On Bismarck a stack of Adaman bullet bags is 1.1mil. And that's even if they are up for sale, which they frequently aren't.

I think it's time to 5/5 recycling and fish out that stupid af2 hat out of storage :/

Stacks of gargoille arrows are 50k each on sylph and jishu eats those things alive. 2 stacks every half hour >_<

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

I think it's time to 5/5 recycling and fish out that stupid af2 hat out of storage :/

Stacks of gargoille arrows are 50k each on sylph and jishu eats those things alive. 2 stacks every half hour >_<

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Theres no reason it should cost that much, at all...

Arrowheads:
Gargouille Horn 1k (easy to cleave farm in vunk)
Bone Chip 150g?
Wind Crystal 500g?

Fletchings:
Peapuk Wing x2 1k each (easy to cleave farm in vunk)
Wind Crystal 500g

Arrowwood lumber
10g npc


From my experience synthing them, it takes about 15 earth feedings and 5 wind feedings, depending how you manipulate the fewell and leaks...at 3k per fewell orb, comes to about 60 gil per feeding, so roughly 1200g per feeding. Comes to about 6k per stack.

You're getting ripped off hardcore at 50k per stack

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Theres no reason it should cost that much, at all...

Arrowheads:
Gargouille Horn 1k (easy to cleave farm in vunk)
Bone Chip 150g?
Wind Crystal 500g?

Fletchings:
Peapuk Wing x2 1k each (easy to cleave farm in vunk)
Wind Crystal 500g

Arrowwood lumber
10g npc


From my experience synthing them, it takes about 15 earth feedings and 5 wind feedings, depending how you manipulate the fewell and leaks...at 3k per fewell orb, comes to about 60 gil per feeding, so roughly 1200g per feeding. Comes to about 6k per stack.

You're getting ripped off hardcore at 50k per stack

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Math is a bit off actually, each synth of arrowheads/fletchings produces 6 on NQ.

Arrowheads: 1650 / 6 = 275

Fletchings: 2500 / 6 = ~417

275 + 417 + 10 + 1200 = 1902

1902 * 12 + Carnations = ~23.5k for a stack of quivers


50k for a stack of quivers is the most I would pay anyone for this, easily double your investment, and more than fair for the low amount of risk involved. Yet somehow people think these are worth 400k+ for a stack and wonder why they sell so slowly. List a fair price and people will buy them.

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Originally Posted by Saelae

Math is a bit off actually, each synth of arrowheads/fletchings produces 6 on NQ.

Arrowheads: 1650 / 6 = 275

Fletchings: 2500 / 6 = ~417

275 + 417 + 10 + 1200 = 1902

1902 * 12 + Carnations = ~23.5k for a stack of quivers


50k for a stack of quivers is the most I would pay anyone for this, easily double your investment, and more than fair for the low amount of risk involved. Yet somehow people think these are worth 400k+ for a stack and wonder why they sell so slowly. List a fair price and people will buy them.

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This is all people are asking. Not to be held to a king's ransom be synergists.

Of course the hardcore answer is level synergy. But unfortunately not everyone plays this game all day and can manage levelling synergy, attending LS events, farming dyna, completing empy/relic/mythic trials with a RL schedule.

If there was an NPC synergist for ammo where we could farm our ingredients and have him make ammo for a nominal markup. These 300% markups are killing me.

Really annoying, gargouille horn has rly sucky drop, its difficult to find a bonecrafter who is willing to do it,partly because some of them are making arrows with their friends/alternate char whatever and protecting their market.
Guess its the same for bullets between smithing guys and alchemists.

My bad
I have a bad habit of starting a number crunch for something, then i lose track and get the number for something related but not what i started.

The price in the eyes of the bow/gun user actually changes a bit more when you acquire a lower hit build (3hit or so depending on atmas/traits/gear/etc or less in VWNM) which means that 50k stack of 99 end up being 2 arrows or less if you only WS them after a few fights especially if you don't recycle... 33 ws = 1 stack. Some days i swap out of rng and onto dnc/drk/smn/blu/??? and cash in stuff to deal with the upkeep for that job as well as the others.

While people will say something about farming i'd like to point out the perpetual loss over time for those who might want to buy armor upgrades or would rather spend money on devious die-that-don't-drop/heavy plates/liminal-things-that-don't-drop. What i spend on food and arrows a day kinda puts me back 1 die/residue a day IF they pop up at a reasonable price.

I haven't had the time to check out the new adjustments but for a rng we need a strong bow/gun and strong arrow to catch up with those who's weapons do half or a quarter of our weapon's base damage in this game.

We consistently compete for slots/damage and are an AH/crafting/synergy dependent class. Please reevaluate our ammo.

Farming for 3+ hours should never be the option for any player willing to play RNG. Never.

We need ammunition to be sold by NPC at a cheap price(1~90gil per), crafters do not make nor sell the ammo at proper rate to care about their market as they got none here.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to making new ammo, and making ammo more readily available in general, the development team is still looking into a variety of things, so please wait a bit more.

Currently the main reason high level ammo is not being circulated is due to the difficulty of obtaining the materials. We will be making adjustments in the upcoming version update so that these material items will be more prevalent and as a result the circulation of ammo should increase and prices should go down.

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There you go, talking like it's a world of difference...
__SE asked for what pet the community wanted more for bst and they was ignored. Something this trivial they shouldn't even have bat an eye. I don't think ammo is expensive and quite frankly, they're woodworkers best clients. Players are mad cuase they think they're getting played but the game's fine and functioning.
__All we need is more gatherers for mats and for that to happen, drops need to increase. We need better success rate for crafters to deliver goods because mats would be cheaper and easier to obtain.

People who play this game (as if it was WoW) don't see the adventure and the journey as part of the fun. Maybe they should move on or STOP being cheap-skates. Many goal oriented adventurers would probably help if you just ask but it wasn't easy to lvl craft either, that's how they make their gil. Smart way to lvl. rng is if you have funds rolling in, lvl woodworking, cloth and bone-craft. It'll be well worth your time and energy plus profitable.

I got my Rng to 61 will low lvl ammo and done decent dmg(triple digits). I have a Loxley Bow and a War Bow+1 and do awesome dmg even with low level ammo(lv.30~55 ammo- quadruple digits!). I use my lv.60+ ammo for fun and to steal hate from Mnks and Plds but hey, I sub nin when doing that! Learn how to play your job, get good gear, equipment and use your abilities right. Oh, don't forget to skill up your range weapons... you'll need skill too!

DEX gear can destroy mobs and maybe leave you dead in the process too. For what I've learned so far and skilled, Rng can be as dangerous as blm... I wouldn't worry so much about the cost( that's really irrelevant). As I recall, Rng is an advance job, "keep away from children".

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Originally Posted by Psxpert2011

DEX gear can destroy mobs and maybe leave you dead in the process too. For what I've learned so far and skilled, Rng can be as dangerous as blm... I wouldn't worry so much about the cost( that's really irrelevant). As I recall, Rng is an advance job, "keep away from children".

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DEX gear......... Riiiiiiiight...... ANYWAY, It's sad that in 2012 you need multiple high level crafts to play RNG at its best. I really hope the design team considers RNG + COR ammo as part of the crafting changes that are about to come. Not only is ammo in short supply but the cost to even buy the ammo is way out of hand.

I thought its time to bump this topic as I'm sure everyone is noticing ammo prices getting ridiculously high again:
Adaman Bullets 120k/stack
Orichalcum Bullets 80k/stack
Gargouille arrows 50K/stack (ooo a bargain)

Last stand costs 2.5k/ws. Jishnu's costs 1.5k/ws.

Normally I wouldn't be too upset about ammo costs excpet for the fact that I have 3000 HMP's to pay for empy gun and bow and would rather spend my gil on that than restocking ammo.

And sadly it doesn't seem to be crafter gouging these days since the price of an adaman ingot is 90k and orichalcum ingot is 50k. So even if I levelled synergy, I'd still have to spend a large chunk of gil for ammo.

So I'm beseeching the Dev team once again to make some adjustment to ammo costs. There are currently enough time sinks in this game. Wasting large quantities of gil on ammo rather than HMP's shouldn't be one of them.