Reviving PvP & Ballista

then a defensively geared, vereth mnk comes along and trucks your ass lmao.

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Originally Posted by Dart

then a defensively geared, vereth mnk comes along and trucks your ass lmao.

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If they have the skill or experience, then by all means they deserve to beat my ass. But believe me when I say I won't, and will never go down without a fight that will open up their eyes to a new perspective. No one can just go in with that Abyssea attitude and whomp on anyone. A truly competitive and strategic Ballista player such as myself among many other who post here will know how to trump them with no problem.

I think that's why no one participates, they are just too frustrated over the fact that they couldn't handle themselves in a PvP situation. Most melee these days are accustomed to having a WHM backing them, relieving them of any fear of failure. Well in Ballista, you will be reintroduced to something called "skill". "Skill" is something people used to obtain with experience in the game long before Abyssea was ever thought of (thank you SE).

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

I think that's why no one participates, they are just too frustrated over the fact that they couldn't handle themselves in a PvP situation. Most melee these days are accustomed to having a WHM backing them, relieving them of any fear of failure. Well in Ballista, you will be reintroduced to something called "skill". "Skill" is something people used to obtain with experience in the game long before Abyssea was ever thought of (thank you SE).

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This ^

/close all other threads.

I would really like to know if the dev team is able to consider even minor improvements to the Conflict system.

I just want 1v1 dueling.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll take the first guess with this: an open PvP "challenge" system would be great. If you just want to take part in a random duel or party battle with another group of people, the option should be open to take place anywhere you like (barring cities of course).



I have no issue with adding new rewards to attract more ballista-ignorant players to participate. My original reply was intended to merely state that adding rewards specific to Ballista will not attract players who have no interest or have no idea what Ballista is.

Ballista SPECIFIC rewards will not lure new/uninterested people in.

Give them seals and +2 upgrades to empy armor and you'll see people jump all over it... /sarcasm off

Although that last statement might actually be true, I don't think it will attract the sort of people who are there for the competition. They might frail under the influence of tough competition by players such as us who have years of experience on the Ballista battlefield. That can, of course, be balanced slightly with consolation prizes (lesser gil/exp/cp/etc rewards) as it always has been.

This is probably the 3rd, maybe 4th thread about Ballista and general PvP, and we still go without answers from SE's representatives, let alone the dev. team.

Clearly we are misrepresenting ourselves as people who are "already too loyal to quit" so they don't have to give a damn about us. Their main goals are to attempt to attract more people to make more profits. From a business standpoint, they are doing a so-so job. But as a loyal customer to this service, I expect at least some shed of light on what actually keeps me interested in the game. Ballista is one of the reasons I didn't quit the game over 5 years ago. And with the promise of better upgrades to the game as a whole, I've been nothing but disappointed. One person may not make a difference, but I'm not the only one who believes in this, merely one of the few who is willing to point that out.

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I was not sarcastic...
sorry if it turned out that way lol.

Damn, 9 pages, and no Dev input <sadface>

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Originally Posted by Seyrena

I just want 1v1 dueling.

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I just want no 1v1 dueling. Really, everything in the game has always been built around groups, the game is balanced around groups.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I just want no 1v1 dueling. Really, everything in the game has always been built around groups, the game is balanced around groups.

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That's the way the game was built originally. In today's FFXI, you are more open to choices as to whether you want to play in groups (large or small) or solo. PvP is not so different in that respect. I enjoy 1v1 dueling as well as large group competition. It should not be limited to just one idea, but feature several options as to how you want to participate.

It's all about personal choice.

I'm from Bismarck, and I'm all in for ballista pvp in FFXI, and FFXIV. Everything that was mentioned in the first post of this thread I heavily agree with. when pvp first came out my server used to always play but now for years nobody is interested. Maybe it is the lack of good rewards that nobody seems to want to waste their time on.

To fix the gear swapping issues, how about making Ballista type gears for only ballista. They got to look epic and cool, no lame looking stuff. They should be powerful enough so players wont even have to bother about swapping gears and what not. Personally I don't swap gears, but it seems like an issue for everyone else.

Are you reading this SE?

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

That's the way the game was built originally. In today's FFXI, you are more open to choices as to whether you want to play in groups (large or small) or solo. PvP is not so different in that respect. I enjoy 1v1 dueling as well as large group competition. It should not be limited to just one idea, but feature several options as to how you want to participate.

It's all about personal choice.

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For me its about having a good ballista match and then having someone crying because you attacked them when they were supposedly trying to have a "1v1." People will use that as a shield in a ballista match which hurts the game for the other players in the match.

I mean, I would be fine with a special place for it (e.g. the colosseum), but I would fear that this will be all people would want to do despite that neither PvP nor most of the rest of the game was built around it- There are glaring imbalances with specific jobs against other jobs that disappear when you put them in a team environment. Thing is these imbalances are simply due to the nature of each job's typical role.

For conflict to succeed, the developers should play to its strengths, I guess is what I want you to get from this.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

If they have the skill or experience, then by all means they deserve to beat my ass. But believe me when I say I won't, and will never go down without a fight that will open up their eyes to a new perspective. No one can just go in with that Abyssea attitude and whomp on anyone. A truly competitive and strategic Ballista player such as myself among many other who post here will know how to trump them with no problem.

I think that's why no one participates, they are just too frustrated over the fact that they couldn't handle themselves in a PvP situation. Most melee these days are accustomed to having a WHM backing them, relieving them of any fear of failure. Well in Ballista, you will be reintroduced to something called "skill". "Skill" is something people used to obtain with experience in the game long before Abyssea was ever thought of (thank you SE).

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what is this crap?

Yeah PvP is harder and takes more skill, but I've gotten more personal experience actually PLAYING the game in Abyssea.
Not some made up currency that increases your level, but actual gameplay experience. I'd never be as good as I am now if I was dicking along leveling my jobs on no brainer mobs. In Abyssea there are a plethora of mobs with dozens of different abilities and situations where you actually need to use your head.

Even if it is easy you won't beat Pantokrator without a brew just going in your crap gear with your unique snowflake attitude thinking you know something.

Leveling up the old way is a horrible example of how experience should be obtained, because it was easy as crap (as in no real skill needed/obtained), but long as getting a damn PHD.

To top it off, because of Abyssea they would be able to enjoy the high end of several different gameplay jobs without a painstaking horrible experience with the game.

Back on subject: If there was a reason to PvP (Unique PvP gear) then people would immerse themselves in it like they have Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

To fix the gear swapping issues, how about making Ballista type gears for only ballista. They got to look epic and cool, no lame looking stuff. They should be powerful enough so players wont even have to bother about swapping gears and what not. Personally I don't swap gears, but it seems like an issue for everyone else.

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This is the argument I've been looking for. You want to alleviate gear swapping while maintaining a certain balance in gear selection, then you can create Ballista specific gear.

However...

As far as I'm concerned, gear DOES make a difference, but part of Ballista is knowing how to properly gear yourself to suit the situation of the battlefield. Not the other way around. We shouldn't have to rely on gear designed for Ballista to relieve us of this "issue". It may be a nice alternative, and a gateway to invite new participants, but it should not be the solution.

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Are you reading this SE?

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They do read every thread, just to make sure we aren't bad mouthing each other. If someone were to suddenly break down and insult everyone they would step in and say "hey! stop doing that!" Otherwise, we probably will never get a response because they don't really give a shit, we're just the minority.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

what is this crap?

Yeah PvP is harder and takes more skill, but I've gotten more personal experience actually PLAYING the game in Abyssea.
Not some made up currency that increases your level, but actual gameplay experience. I'd never be as good as I am now if I was dicking along leveling my jobs on no brainer mobs. In Abyssea there are a plethora of mobs with dozens of different abilities and situations where you actually need to use your head.

Even if it is easy you won't beat Pantokrator without a brew just going in your crap gear with your unique snowflake attitude thinking you know something.

Leveling up the old way is a horrible example of how experience should be obtained, because it was easy as crap (as in no real skill needed/obtained), but long as getting a damn PHD.

To top it off, because of Abyssea they would be able to enjoy the high end of several different gameplay jobs without a painstaking horrible experience with the game.

Back on subject: If there was a reason to PvP (Unique PvP gear) then people would immerse themselves in it like they have Abyssea.

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Well well well. Where to begin :)

First of all, unlike most of you, I have defeated many higher end game NMs. I've beaten AV, PW, and many others among those "impossible" NMs before the level caps were raised and after the fixing of exploitation issues several years ago. Oh and let's not forget about Pantokrator, Shinryu, Rani and Raja. The supposed new "challenges". What a freakin' joke. I mean, none of them actually require a brew to beat, and I've taken all of them down without one. You need to question your play style and the people you play coordinate with if you can't do so otherwise.

Exp was never the issue, and that was never brought up in this topic, I'm not sure why you did. If you couldn't level a job then, you automatically fail in my book. I leveled 12 to 75 long before Abyssea was ever thought of. Now have 13, maybe soon to finish WHM, because ToAU/WotG jobs are stupid and almost completely useless, especially nowadays. Sorry Blu fans, I will make you fall to your knees in Ballista.

The reason I say PvP requires more skill is because when competing against actual people who know wtf they are doing, you are no longer on a single set strategy like you are against most HNMs. PvP requires quick adaptation to constantly changing situations which you might not always be ready for. If you can adapt to your situation, you can overcome it. You can't read up Wiki on how another person might react to your actions. If it were me, I would make sure your HP hits 0.

Anything else?

honestly I like ballista as is, just wish that I could find a server that did it regularly. Not being able to gear swap adds a nice degree of difficulty and as previously mentioned. Makes you really think about how to gear/play your job.

I'm like the guy above as well. Beaten everything and I mean everything in the game. ballista is fun with friends and a little good old "haw haw I keeled you" /sitonbody. chuckles lol.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

Well well well. Where to begin :)

First of all, unlike most of you, I have defeated many higher end game NMs. I've beaten AV, PW, and many others among those "impossible" NMs before the level caps were raised and after the fixing of exploitation issues several years ago. Oh and let's not forget about Pantokrator, Shinryu, Rani and Raja. The supposed new "challenges". What a freakin' joke. I mean, none of them actually require a brew to beat, and I've taken all of them down without one. You need to question your play style and the people you play coordinate with if you can't do so otherwise.

Exp was never the issue, and that was never brought up in this topic, I'm not sure why you did. If you couldn't level a job then, you automatically fail in my book. I leveled 12 to 75 long before Abyssea was ever thought of. Now have 13, maybe soon to finish WHM, because ToAU/WotG jobs are stupid and almost completely useless, especially nowadays. Sorry Blu fans, I will make you fall to your knees in Ballista.

The reason I say PvP requires more skill is because when competing against actual people who know wtf they are doing, you are no longer on a single set strategy like you are against most HNMs. PvP requires quick adaptation to constantly changing situations which you might not always be ready for. If you can adapt to your situation, you can overcome it. You can't read up Wiki on how another person might react to your actions. If it were me, I would make sure your HP hits 0.

Anything else?

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I don't disagree with you, but you did say something about experience that was vague and could have been interpreted in several ways.

Also: pics or it didn't happen.

It goes both ways really. Gaining experience points to level up jobs in Abyssea and gaining most of your in game experience from Abyssea are both pretty much the same. 97% of all NMs in Abyssea are trash that often drop useful items, and hold no real credibility toward anyone's accomplishments. I'm not saying camping kings for 4 hours a day was a challenge, but there were always NMs far more challenging that didn't always require spamming for claim. AV, PW, Wyrms, Sandworm (I guess), and many others, that, as briefly pointed out in an earlier post, were designed for large group coordination. I'd show screen shots but unfortunately I only have a couple of SS of AV's drops. I'd be glad to fight Pantokrator again without the use of a brew though, it's not difficult to figure out it's patterns (or to not screw up for that matter).

And now back on topic again...

Keeping larger scale Ballista matches in mind, if you were in or currently do reside in a large linkshell where everyone can function properly together to take on NMs and other fights and tasks, you can essentially do the same in Ballista. A major key factor in Ballista is coordination, and that's one of the reasons why some matches weren't so great. This is where you take your actual in game experience and put it to use in a new environment. Not as one set strategy, but using the knowledge of everything you've gone through. And to top it off, your equipment is restricted to one set at a time, not that you can't change it to suit your needs, but once you start fighting you better hope you switched off your main macros. I've got books of macros specifically for Ballista, mainly for DRK, PLD, SAM, DRG, WAR, THF, RNG, BLM, and RDM. I've been meaning to add more jobs but since no one wants to play mario'spunch-off with me in Diorama or anywhere else I haven't felt the need to. I want to see what my Ukon and Kannagi can do in PvP. :)

Random side note: ever get charmed in Besieged with Lv.3 Aftermath on around a group of unsuspecting people? BLMs and DNCs didn't like Kannagi very much.

ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

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Originally Posted by Dart

ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

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This certainly does catch my interest! Now, who wants to be my guinea pig?

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

It goes both ways really. Gaining experience points to level up jobs in Abyssea and gaining most of your in game experience from Abyssea are both pretty much the same. 97% of all NMs in Abyssea are trash that often drop useful items, and hold no real credibility toward anyone's accomplishments. I'm not saying camping kings for 4 hours a day was a challenge, but there were always NMs far more challenging that didn't always require spamming for claim. AV, PW, Wyrms, Sandworm (I guess), and many others, that, as briefly pointed out in an earlier post, were designed for large group coordination. I'd show screen shots but unfortunately I only have a couple of SS of AV's drops. I'd be glad to fight Pantokrator again without the use of a brew though, it's not difficult to figure out it's patterns (or to not screw up for that matter).

And now back on topic again...

Keeping larger scale Ballista matches in mind, if you were in or currently do reside in a large linkshell where everyone can function properly together to take on NMs and other fights and tasks, you can essentially do the same in Ballista. A major key factor in Ballista is coordination, and that's one of the reasons why some matches weren't so great. This is where you take your actual in game experience and put it to use in a new environment. Not as one set strategy, but using the knowledge of everything you've gone through. And to top it off, your equipment is restricted to one set at a time, not that you can't change it to suit your needs, but once you start fighting you better hope you switched off your main macros. I've got books of macros specifically for Ballista, mainly for DRK, PLD, SAM, DRG, WAR, THF, RNG, BLM, and RDM. I've been meaning to add more jobs but since no one wants to play mario'spunch-off with me in Diorama or anywhere else I haven't felt the need to. I want to see what my Ukon and Kannagi can do in PvP. :)

Random side note: ever get charmed in Besieged with Lv.3 Aftermath on around a group of unsuspecting people? BLMs and DNCs didn't like Kannagi very much.

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ITT: zerging a NM with perfect defense up is hard

Camate: PLEASE try to get us some answers about PvP. Is the dev team willing to do anything that might revitalize the system a little? It doesn't have to be anything big...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Camate: PLEASE try to get us some answers about PvP. Is the dev team willing to do anything that might revitalize the system a little? It doesn't have to be anything big...

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Shameless bump.

I want these Ballista topics to go from "please please please fix Ballista for us" to battle strategies, gearing tips, etc threads for newer Ballista and advanced players.

That's something that better belongs in a new thread.

Frankly I want to dispel the popularity of 60 cap.... Level caps have been removed everywhere else in the game... a lot of people don't keep good gear for different levels handy anymore, and level sync makes 90% of gear above the level equivalent to wearing paper. On top of that some jobs, particularly the newer ones except for BLU and DNC, really don't start to shine until after 60 and this is all the JP community does. If people think gear is less of an impact at 60 cap, they're dead wrong; if they think the game is "less balanced" at higher levels, they're also wrong. The metagame is a little different and there are some mostly minor shifts in balance of power (e.g. the afformentioned underpowered jobs are able to compete), but beyond that, every uncapped event I've ever done has been just as if not more enjoyable than the lv60 ones.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

Shameless bump.

I want these Ballista topics to go from "please please please fix Ballista for us" to battle strategies, gearing tips, etc threads for newer Ballista and advanced players.

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Make a thread in the battle forum or something for that, this is obviously not the place.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

That's something that better belongs in a new thread.

Frankly I want to dispel the popularity of 60 cap.... Level caps have been removed everywhere else in the game... a lot of people don't keep good gear for different levels handy anymore, and level sync makes 90% of gear above the level equivalent to wearing paper. On top of that some jobs, particularly the newer ones except for BLU and DNC, really don't start to shine until after 60 and this is all the JP community does. If people think gear is less of an impact at 60 cap, they're dead wrong; if they think the game is "less balanced" at higher levels, they're also wrong. The metagame is a little different and there are some mostly minor shifts in balance of power (e.g. the afformentioned underpowered jobs are able to compete), but beyond that, every uncapped event I've ever done has been just as if not more enjoyable than the lv60 ones.

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60 caps are significantly more balanced than uncapped is (It was retarded at 75 cap, I can't even imagine at 90). BLU is good in 60 caps it just isn't OP, DNC is mediocre but that's to be expected. There really aren't any uselessly bad jobs in 60 caps and only a couple of slightly overpowered ones. It's the most popular ballista for a reason (Also the most fun, imo).

Please, community team, we want to know if the dev team can consider any tweaks, adjustments or additions to Ballista or Conflict in general.

I do have one last thing to add to this topic. Please, eliminate lv30/40/50 caps. No one wants to do those. Only have 60 and uncapped (I would rather not have any caps at all, but I know a lot of people DO enjoy 60 cap), and possibly make the schedule earth time based.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

ITT: zerging a NM with perfect defense up is hard

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some of us used the wall lock exploit~~~~

LvCaps promote new players who haven't had the opportunity to fully gear out their jobs yet, to be able to participate fairly in PvP.

No caps in PvP would make it less popular as a result that everyone would therefore be required to first hit Max Level on whichever job they would decide to play, in order for them to have a fighting chance in Conflict. Not to mention the amount of time it takes to obtain Max Level endgame content gear, they would be too engrossed in PvE, it would make PvP just a burden to participate.

That's why I call for PvP specific equipment, which you obtain from doing PvP.

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LvCaps promote new players who haven't had the opportunity to fully gear out their jobs yet, to be able to participate fairly in PvP.

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If anyone ever actually played it, I would agree. But no one does. People don't PvP at low levels at all except in games where the whole thing is based around PvP. And then, you don't have a use for level caps either.

NOBODY does lv30-50 ballista. If you DO want to do it, there's still the diorama for that. But those caps should be removed from the official match schedule.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

If anyone ever actually played it, I would agree. But no one does. People don't PvP at low levels at all except in games where the whole thing is based around PvP. And then, you don't have a use for level caps either.

NOBODY does lv30-50 ballista. If you DO want to do it, there's still the diorama for that. But those caps should be removed from the official match schedule.

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That's why the new time construct in my original post fits the best. If that were implemented, then a constant Lv30, Lv60 and Uncapped Battle would be happening all the time.

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The reason I say PvP requires more skill is because when competing against actual people who know wtf they are doing, you are no longer on a single set strategy like you are against most HNMs. PvP requires quick adaptation to constantly changing situations which you might not always be ready for. If you can adapt to your situation, you can overcome it. You can't read up Wiki on how another person might react to your actions. If it were me, I would make sure your HP hits 0.

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That is certainly correct. But I think the real reason people don't particularly care about PvP is that it has very low applicability to the rest of the game.

Ballista discourages gear swapping while the entire rest of the game is built on it, for example. It's rough enough for most people to have to leave everything at home so their macros don't accidentally switch into other gear. But to also have to have a gear set that can even run contrary to how they gear for the rest of the game.

And generally you aren't gunning for moving targets, unless you're doing a kited fights. Even if it is kited, you can generally predict what direction the target is going in. A BLM could time his nukes accordingly. In Ballista, a person will see a BLM casting spells and they will generally do one of two things: switch targets and do something to stop the BLM, or run in the opposite direction. This is not typical mob AI behavior.

You can learn a lot about the mechanics of your job through Ballista, the various benefits and disadvantages of certain playstyles, the downsides to abilities or spells you generally never have to think about, or have an element of surprise against players who don't know the full capabilities of certain jobs simply because they never really see it in practice in the rest of the game (Ballista is the only reason I have Feral Howl merits capped for BST. It's like an instant ability Stun that ignores shadows and is not a spell so it can be used on the run).

But a lot of that knowledge really goes wasted in the rest of the game because- let's face it- the AI in this game is generally very stupid. It's the AI that casts Silena on itself when Silence wears off (I haven't tried it yet, but I bet they cast Stona on themselves if you cast Break on them too). It's the AI that casts Sleep on players that have DoT on. It's the AI that casts single target nukes on players that can clearly put up Utsusemi. It is by the grace of simply being overpowered that the toughest enemies in this game are tough. They aren't actually capable of outsmarting players.

In the rest of the game, you can use Retaliation in good faith that the mob is not going to suddenly disengage and starting firing off spells or ammo at you. You can use shadows knowing that it is not going to intentionally use Area spells to clear them. You can be a pet job knowing that the mob doesn't actually know the master is the easier of the 2 units to kill. You can rely on enmity to keep your mob away from your healers. You can count on it that mobs don't predict how much TP you have so they can sidestep you or put up their defenses at just the right moment.

Unfortunately, it's really everything that makes Ballista a unique and enriching experience that also makes it unapproachable to the majority of the player base. We, on Siren, were lucky enough to have a few uncapped matches recently because one player took the initiative to shout and start sending /tells around to people who were dedicated Ballista players prior to the level cap increase. And for that, I am grateful to him. I was just beginning to wonder why I still even play Final Fantasy XI, since I always used to say I would lose all reason to play if Ballista died. Up until now, Ballista hasn't taken place in almost a year and a half.

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ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

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Somebody's not wearing enough PDT.

The mog sack/satchel made it a lot easier to stow macro gear without haivng to go to the moghouse or modify your macros. The only real reason for this restriction though, is because macro swapping gear would have been abuseable to make it difficult for people to target you. If only they could *cough cough* find a better solution for *cough* blinking, that restriction could be removed.

You offered some good input.

I suggested revamping the schedule, in order to give people more of what they want (e.g. the matches most people play) to increase the odds of there being a desireable match in player's prime times. 60 caps still happen sometimes on shiva, especially after the server merge. But they would probably happen a lot more often if they came up during the right times.

Cross server events, though almost sure not to be implemented, would also help Ballista a lot- It worked wonders for WoW when there wasn't always enough players on a server doing the first big PvP battleground for a match to start.

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60 caps are significantly more balanced than uncapped is

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Completely, totally, utterly, unequivocally false. It is not more balanced, nor is it less balanced. The metagame is different, and some jobs get a little stronger while others weaken a bit, but the end result is the same. Gear is no more of an issue at the uncapped tier, because there are still haves and have-nots for level 60 (especially since many people no longer carry gear for lower levels anymore other than their AF which is probably stowed on storage NPCs).

relics, empy, kraken clubs (Still quite useful in ballista). say otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

That is certainly correct. But I think the real reason people don't particularly care about PvP is that it has very low applicability to the rest of the game.

Ballista discourages gear swapping while the entire rest of the game is built on it, for example. It's rough enough for most people to have to leave everything at home so their macros don't accidentally switch into other gear. But to also have to have a gear set that can even run contrary to how they gear for the rest of the game.

And generally you aren't gunning for moving targets, unless you're doing a kited fights. Even if it is kited, you can generally predict what direction the target is going in. A BLM could time his nukes accordingly. In Ballista, a person will see a BLM casting spells and they will generally do one of two things: switch targets and do something to stop the BLM, or run in the opposite direction. This is not typical mob AI behavior.

You can learn a lot about the mechanics of your job through Ballista, the various benefits and disadvantages of certain playstyles, the downsides to abilities or spells you generally never have to think about, or have an element of surprise against players who don't know the full capabilities of certain jobs simply because they never really see it in practice in the rest of the game (Ballista is the only reason I have Feral Howl merits capped for BST. It's like an instant ability Stun that ignores shadows and is not a spell so it can be used on the run).

But a lot of that knowledge really goes wasted in the rest of the game because- let's face it- the AI in this game is generally very stupid. It's the AI that casts Silena on itself when Silence wears off (I haven't tried it yet, but I bet they cast Stona on themselves if you cast Break on them too). It's the AI that casts Sleep on players that have DoT on. It's the AI that casts single target nukes on players that can clearly put up Utsusemi. It is by the grace of simply being overpowered that the toughest enemies in this game are tough. They aren't actually capable of outsmarting players.

In the rest of the game, you can use Retaliation in good faith that the mob is not going to suddenly disengage and starting firing off spells or ammo at you. You can use shadows knowing that it is not going to intentionally use Area spells to clear them. You can be a pet job knowing that the mob doesn't actually know the master is the easier of the 2 units to kill. You can rely on enmity to keep your mob away from your healers. You can count on it that mobs don't predict how much TP you have so they can sidestep you or put up their defenses at just the right moment.

Unfortunately, it's really everything that makes Ballista a unique and enriching experience that also makes it unapproachable to the majority of the player base. We, on Siren, were lucky enough to have a few uncapped matches recently because one player took the initiative to shout and start sending /tells around to people who were dedicated Ballista players prior to the level cap increase. And for that, I am grateful to him. I was just beginning to wonder why I still even play Final Fantasy XI, since I always used to say I would lose all reason to play if Ballista died. Up until now, Ballista hasn't taken place in almost a year and a half.



Somebody's not wearing enough PDT.

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only 3 jobs have survived ukko's.

defensively geared rdm, mnk, blu.

Of course if sekka is up i'm self lighting them and 2 shotting even a mnk.

War in uncapped used to be average at best. Now with ukon its a damn monster.

and for the love of god have any of you guys played with fell cleave? I"m always begging a mage to invis me lmao.

also going to give some serious props to masamune sam's. The ability to self light all the time is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

LvCaps promote new players who haven't had the opportunity to fully gear out their jobs yet, to be able to participate fairly in PvP.

No caps in PvP would make it less popular as a result that everyone would therefore be required to first hit Max Level on whichever job they would decide to play, in order for them to have a fighting chance in Conflict. Not to mention the amount of time it takes to obtain Max Level endgame content gear, they would be too engrossed in PvE, it would make PvP just a burden to participate.

That's why I call for PvP specific equipment, which you obtain from doing PvP.

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2 days to get to 90. 3 days after to gear said new job. Of course I'm not implying I want to get rid of capped matches, I rather just do uncapped all the time as a personal preference.

I've never liked 60 caps, let alone anything below that. 60 cap matches a SAM/RNG (for example) can destroy pretty much anyone in a matter of seconds. Utilizing a level cap does not promote balance, it significantly throws it off. Uncapped Ballista, on the other hand, allows for people to commit their full potential, especially in an actual team-based match, and overcome such "unbalance". With no level restriction, any job is capable of handling itself in most situations, barring noobs who don't know the basic mechanics of Conflict, or have any experience against an opponent that actually has the ability to think about their actions before setting them in motion.

Again, I'm not trying to throw off capped Ballista, because it can be fun if you play with friends who are newer to the game. My main hopes/priorities aim toward alleviating the restrictions that hold us from participating whenever we want. It's not hard to come up with 100 Ballista points to open Diorama, but without sufficient players to make an official match happen (in order to build Ballista points) we are stuck at a dead end. No one participates in official matches. No one has access to Diorama. We have no PvP. And screw Brenner.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Completely, totally, utterly, unequivocally false. It is not more balanced, nor is it less balanced. The metagame is different, and some jobs get a little stronger while others weaken a bit, but the end result is the same. Gear is no more of an issue at the uncapped tier, because there are still haves and have-nots for level 60 (especially since many people no longer carry gear for lower levels anymore other than their AF which is probably stowed on storage NPCs).

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Your only argument here is that people don't carry around 60 cap gear, which is a bit silly. How much will a decent set of 60 cap gear run you (assuming your AF is completely useless), like a few hundred k? The worst that can happen in 60 caps is losing 75% HP as a taru to a fully geared RNG. In uncapped MNK can just run around not giving a fuck unless he gets focused, COR/SAM can get instant GB with WS > meditate > QD x2 > WS, PLD is indestructible, DRK with k. club is broken, SAM can't do shit, RNG with k.club and gun is ridiculous. Again, this is just from my experience at 75 cap, I can't really imagine lv90 ballista.

Comparing 60 caps to uncapped is like comparing Super Street Fighter 4 to MvC3

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Your only argument here is that people don't carry around 60 cap gear, which is a bit silly.

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No, it's not the only argument. There is still better and worse gear at level 60.

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In uncapped MNK can just run around not giving a fuck unless he gets focused

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Nonsense, MNK is completely and reasonably stoppable. Not that focusing the threat shouldn't be considered a reasonable strategy in a team game.

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COR/SAM can get instant GB with WS > meditate > QD x2 > WS

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also nonsense. I've yet to see a COR own anyone like this. It takes time for meditate to give you TP, if you're being WSed by a sam sub, you should know another WS is coming soon and react accordingly.

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SAM can't do shit

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EXTREME nonsense. SAM is one of the better uncapped jobs, and can make any mage useless if he doesn't KO them outright with Gekko.

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DRK with k. club is broken

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K.club is rare and if you're talking about souleater, that's nerfed in ballista and isn't as strong. DRK seems to be such a rare sight these days anyway that it doesn't even matter.

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PLD is indestructible

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No more so at 75~90 than at 60. PLD is SUPPOSED to be hard to kill. But they don't do as much damage.

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RNG with k.club and gun is ridiculous

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a RNG up close is doing it wrong and is going to get his butt handed to him.

The biggest reason your post is full of crap is because you didn't even mention BLU, which I feel (along with virtually anyone you talk to) is pretty much the strongest job in ballista at ANY level, and is only balanced by lower defenses and lack of range.

The metagame IS different- But it's not unbalanced. It sure is more volatile, but that's part of what I think makes it more interesting. Please don't talk without recent experience, even if you were right about 75 (which you aren't),

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Comparing 60 caps to uncapped is like comparing Super Street Fighter 4 to MvC3

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I agree. But that doesn't mean one is 'more balanced' than the other.

No one truly likes level caps. That's why all the level caps on anything important were removed. Plus, for me, some of the jobs I play don't really start to shine until after level 60 and lack key abilities needed to be useful/functional at 60.

Sign me up. I'll look you up in game as we're on the same server. PvP can be harmless fun so long somebody doesn't take themselves too seriously. Only done PvP as DRK60 vs DNC70, I knew who was gonna win, but I did the whole smack, "I'm gonna win" talk anyway. But hey, I was bored and thought it'd be entertaining.

As for PvE vs PvP, I think it's great to have diversity, I don't think there'd be any kind of invasion of PvP, but it's just something fun that's in the game the more people could enjoy.

I posted in another thread before I noticed this one, so I'll post it here as well to see if people have any ideas to share. Some quick fixes that would breathe some life back into it:

An updated schedule. Get rid of or at least reduce low level caps, or even separate them from the much more popular 60/uncap matches.

New zones for both official matches and diorama, like Fort Karugo-Narugo, Nyzul Isle, or even home cities.

Atma and Cruor infused matches. This could make for a lot of fun.

Colosseum Type Matches. Can do anywhere from 1v1 up to 18v18 in quicker, small enclosed areas, maybe in the Colosseum, Throne Room, or Empyreal Paradox.

Incentives. These can be popular without being necessary, game breaking, or effecting PvE. Exp and Cruor is the most obvious one. Ballista specific augmentable gear is another. Let us design our own powerhouse sets for use in ballista only. Another option is to create specially awarded trophy gears which could also be augmentable with uses (like a teleport to all 3 cities or movement speed in all 3 cities). Perhaps even a small system for designing your own award gear's actual graphics. People like to look shiny and unique. Use your trophies to add an augment or update another aspect of the look to your ballista trophy gear (think the evolith gear that failed). By properly designing this award system to take into account player's successes while not dropping the ball for those not as skilled, the system could essentially allow people to create armor that shows off their ballista trophies or just simply look pretty.

I understand the issues with balance, but I think the effort in upkeeping this would be minimal if the Dev team just listens to the community and watches for anything polarizing popping up in uncapped or atma matches.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No, it's not the only argument. There is still better and worse gear at level 60.

Nonsense, MNK is completely and reasonably stoppable. Not that focusing the threat shouldn't be considered a reasonable strategy in a team game.

also nonsense. I've yet to see a COR own anyone like this. It takes time for meditate to give you TP, if you're being WSed by a sam sub, you should know another WS is coming soon and react accordingly.

EXTREME nonsense. SAM is one of the better uncapped jobs, and can make any mage useless if he doesn't KO them outright with Gekko.

K.club is rare and if you're talking about souleater, that's nerfed in ballista and isn't as strong. DRK seems to be such a rare sight these days anyway that it doesn't even matter.

No more so at 75~90 than at 60. PLD is SUPPOSED to be hard to kill. But they don't do as much damage.

a RNG up close is doing it wrong and is going to get his butt handed to him.

The biggest reason your post is full of crap is because you didn't even mention BLU, which I feel (along with virtually anyone you talk to) is pretty much the strongest job in ballista at ANY level, and is only balanced by lower defenses and lack of range.

The metagame IS different- But it's not unbalanced. It sure is more volatile, but that's part of what I think makes it more interesting. Please don't talk without recent experience, even if you were right about 75 (which you aren't),

I agree. But that doesn't mean one is 'more balanced' than the other.

No one truly likes level caps. That's why all the level caps on anything important were removed. Plus, for me, some of the jobs I play don't really start to shine until after level 60 and lack key abilities needed to be useful/functional at 60.

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BLU is a given, did I have to mention it? About the COR thing, don't forget that QD gives as much TP as a RA while dishing out ridiculous instant free damage. SAM is good against mages (Definitely the anti-RDM) assuming their team isn't smart and doesn't focus the SAM down, I just don't feel that SAM can really stand up to the other melee jobs in PvP unless you play /RNG. 60 cap PLD survivability doesn't even compare to uncapped PLD. For everything else though I guess it's just a matter of opinion. To me, all jobs start to shine by lv60, sure BLU can't rape everything in sight at lv60 but that's not to say it's a bad job by ANY means in 60 caps. And honestly, I would LOVE to be able to argue over today's uncapped ballista, but nobody fucking does it anymore. :(