[Dev 1009] Force Pop HNM's FTW

How is this a step back?? I think this is a great idea and yes, this update rocks. I can't believe the number of ppl crying over this because theres more work involved. This will balance out in the end, dont worry. And if you want KS's, take your DRK to cape with your twilight scythe and go crazy. But yeah, like a previous reply said, we asked for this and SE gave it to us. And I thank them.

So I guess when people said "we just want the kings to be fair" what they really meant was "we want a BB vending machine"

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Originally Posted by Topdogg

How is this a step back?? I think this is a great idea and yes, this update rocks. I can't believe the number of ppl crying over this because theres more work involved. This will balance out in the end, dont worry. And if you want KS's, take your DRK to cape with your twilight scythe and go crazy. But yeah, like a previous reply said, we asked for this and SE gave it to us. And I thank them.

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was told it dont proc much outside abyssea.

SE is obsessed with super low drop rates ( look what I said on my experience on egg) I have to do more work because i am unlucky????????????

Wonder if more people are thinking like me, gonna try farm real NM for egg because drop rate in ksnm is so piss poor.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

So I guess when people said "we just want the kings to be fair" what they really meant was "we want a BB vending machine"

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Exactly. What's more fair than force popped Kings, whose pop items you get as 100% Drops from KSNM?

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

So I guess when people said "we just want the kings to be fair" what they really meant was "we want a BB vending machine"

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I Think for the first time in a while i chuckled IRL.

This update will only hurt those on a limited time schedule more... can spend week's trying to farm up for 99's and that's assuming you sit and kill mobs solo/duo 4~8 hours a day straight (I can say this from many months of farm grinding for a relic weapon that I helped someone duo who also dedicated all the seal drops to me and helped on my own personal time solo prior to abyssea's release.)

this could be amended by reducing the seal requirement to enter to about 40-50.

I can also easily seeing this becoming a nightmare for Mnk's who need black belt's as it would cost 297 seals minimum assuming they are lucky and get a item within either the KSNM fight or the HQ fight as opposed to the NQ fights which can as of now all be solo'd by various jobs. (I believe the current average rate on BB items from KSNM's is somewhere between 1/3~1/6+ or at least that was the rough average I saw on them when I was getting my Adamantoise Egg)

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Originally Posted by Toren

This update will only hurt those on a limited time schedule more... can spend week's trying to farm up for 99's and that's assuming you sit and kill mobs solo/duo 4~8 hours a day straight (I can say this from many months of farm grinding for a relic weapon that I helped someone duo who also dedicated all the seal drops to me and helped on my own personal time solo prior to abyssea's release.)

this could be amended by reducing the seal requirement to enter to about 40-50.

I can also easily seeing this becoming a nightmare for Mnk's who need black belt's as it would cost 297 seals minimum assuming they are lucky and get a item within either the KSNM fight or the HQ fight as opposed to the NQ fights which can as of now all be solo'd by various jobs. (I believe the current average rate on BB items from KSNM's is somewhere between 1/3~1/6+ or at least that was the rough average I saw on them when I was getting my Adamantoise Egg)

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i would say 1 out of 2/3 for beard, not for egg though. I am 1 out of 10/15 for egg ( and none of the egg was my orb :( )

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Originally Posted by Rambus

was told it dont proc much outside abyssea.

SE is obsessed with super low drop rates ( look what I said on my experience on egg) I have to do more work because i am unlucky????????????

Wonder if more people are thinking like me, gonna try farm real NM for egg because drop rate in ksnm is so piss poor.

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Proc's alot for me tbh. More than it does in abyssea. I believe the mobs lvl has alot to do with proc rates

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Originally Posted by Topdogg

Proc's alot for me tbh. More than it does in abyssea. I believe the mobs lvl has alot to do with proc rates

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Someone in my ls was commenting that they rarely see it work outside abyssea but ruined a shinru off it because it died pre proc ( blue/red w/e) I do not have one I do not care for drk much.

Complaining...? How many of you have actually gone out and actually dedicated time to farming for multiple 99's?

I have and if you have not you might as well stop posting now because you have no clue what your in for. If you have then be my guest. I can easily see why people are upset.

Anyone who thinks this wont be bad really has no idea what your in for with farming these seals for a CHANCE at your BB items lol, and unless they change the droprate i really feel bad for anyone that has their eyes on a dring, not that it was very obtainable before.

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Originally Posted by Rorald

Anyone who thinks this wont be bad really has no idea what your in for with farming these seals for a CHANCE at your BB items lol, and unless they change the droprate i really feel bad for anyone that has their eyes on a dring, not that it was very obtainable before.

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And we have a winner. This is only negatively impacting people who were camping HNMs for the BB items. Rather, it's negatively impacting the ones who were claiming HNMs. Those who weren't going to get claim anyways may as well take the 1-2M they would've paid for the drop and just pay for the Pop item from someone else's KSNM.

This thread is just so full of greatness. And yes a lot of you are complaining try not only saving up 99 ks but also spending hours to claim an hnm for a shit drop rate unless you got HQ claim. This gives you multiple chances per day to get the item if you actually *gasp* go outside abyssea and farm your seals. Cause , you know, SE hasn't handed you 60 free lvls by key whoring as it is, you guys actually seem to want more free hand outs. God forbid you might have to kill something w/o atmas and buffs to get a best in slot item. And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

For those who may have missed it, the original [Dev 1009] post has been updated. Only the pop item from the KSNM99 is going to be 100%, the pop item from NQ? Better hope the RNG loves you...

ehh.. do manage to get random kindred seals doing magian trials also

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Originally Posted by Henihhi

This thread is just so full of greatness. And yes a lot of you are complaining try not only saving up 99 ks but also spending hours to claim an hnm for a shit drop rate unless you got HQ claim. This gives you multiple chances per day to get the item if you actually *gasp* go outside abyssea and farm your seals. Cause , you know, SE hasn't handed you 60 free lvls by key whoring as it is, you guys actually seem to want more free hand outs. God forbid you might have to kill something w/o atmas and buffs to get a best in slot item. And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

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Too much truth to be contained in one post. Posting again to let it sink in.

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Originally Posted by Henihhi

This thread is just so full of greatness. And yes a lot of you are complaining try not only saving up 99 ks but also spending hours to claim an hnm for a shit drop rate unless you got HQ claim. This gives you multiple chances per day to get the item if you actually *gasp* go outside abyssea and farm your seals. Cause , you know, SE hasn't handed you 60 free lvls by key whoring as it is, you guys actually seem to want more free hand outs. God forbid you might have to kill something w/o atmas and buffs to get a best in slot item. And let me repeat- you got exactly what you asked for by blowing these forums up complaining about hnm and abyssea, now maybe you will think a bit before you spew stupid.

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SE never gave me 60 levels of key whoring, and I disagree with "multiple chances per day" care to explain how to get 198 seals in a day?

this is not an update, it is a step backwords, people that say otherwise does not understand SE.

I wish they would of increased the level of the HQ kings at the end of this, I know they won't but I really wish they did :(

For people still complaining.. this will lead to mass numbers of shouts in PJ and most of them will be from people going for king gear abj and BB items being free lot, this makes obtaining a BB easier than ever imagined.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

SE never gave me 60 levels of key whoring, and I disagree with "multiple chances per day" care to explain how to get 198 seals in a day?

this is not an update, it is a step backwords, people that say otherwise does not understand SE.

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You're still assuming no one has any friends who may already have, or not need, Black belts and may have Kindred Seals.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You're still assuming no one has any friends who may already have, or not need, Black belts and may have Kindred Seals.

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Does not matter if people have stored KS, that is a weak pro-argument for this update.

you are basically saying screw you to newer players and players that do not have many KS from trying to get said items in the past.

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

I don't get why people are so mad over this? They obviously take good news and twist it into terrible news. This is obviously 10000% better for getting D. Ring and other gear. And if your main concern is BB item then just stay in behemoth's dominion the day after the update and ask one of the hundreds of groups popping KB if you can buy their tongue... Hell, some may even give it away for free.

Don't have gil? Farm 99 KS(Which you should have anyway). Find a group that is only going for D ring and tell them you'll go with them and use your 99 KS. I'm sure they'll give you tongue for another chance at a HQ pop. Even farming 99 KS by yourself and finding a group like that is going to net you the tongue a whole hell of a lot faster than you would ever get it the way things are now.

People bitch and whine over everything without even thinking about how good this is.

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Originally Posted by pheare

I don't get why people are so mad over this? They obviously take good news and twist it into terrible news. This is obviously 10000% better for getting D. Ring and other gear. And if your main concern is BB item then just stay in behemoth's dominion the day after the update and ask one of the hundreds of groups popping KB if you can buy their tongue... Hell, some may even give it away for free.

Don't have gil? Farm 99 KS(Which you should have anyway). Find a group that is only going for D ring and tell them you'll go with them and use your 99 KS. I'm sure they'll give you tongue for another chance at a HQ pop. Even farming 99 KS by yourself and finding a group like that is going to net you the tongue a whole hell of a lot faster than you would ever get it the way things are now.

People bitch and whine over everything without even thinking about how good this is.

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do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

to me people are saying kings as force pop so must be good, uh no it is not

Not really. New players can EXP outside of abyssea rather than keyleech. Those who don't have many KS are out of luck, yes, but it's not that hard to farm them. Heaven forbid you do some work just to get some KS for an item you want. Heaven forbid something take effort.

People asked for something, were vague about it. This is the result. Congrats. ^^

Well if you don't want to farm the ks or camp the hnms wtf do you want SE to do for you? Thousands have obtained the black belt in the past, yes it was a pain in the ass, but seriously- do you want to just log in and have it in your inventory? And honestly at lvl 90 it is not that hard to go farm kses for a day. SE decides to release something that suits all of the complaints that have been spammed on here and yet you all are still not happy.Go lvl a job outside abyssea til 80 or so and i guarantee you will have enough ks to do the ksnm lol

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Originally Posted by Kunihiro

99 Kindred's Seals is a little extreme, especially since most of the gear dropped by these mobs are obsolete. For people who don't have thousand's of seals at their disposal, this method is popping is much slower than where it stands now.

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No it's not. If you've played for as long as most people have getting 99 Seals is nothing. Hell I'm sitting on close to 1400 myself which means a lot of people will get stuff off my pops.

And seriously some of you people have had years to obtain Black Belt items before this was annouced. Hell i got my items when my damn MNK was only level 37. This is much better for those of us who still want to get BB items without having to pay for em.

Truth be told I'm only semi interested in Ebody just to finally finish my last piece of King Gear.

Try more along the lines of once per month unless your paying for the items. Honestly this is not about being lazy its about requiring 3-4 weeks of soloing 4-8 hours a day for one fight. I've sit patiently farming the same mobs for 4-8 hours a day many many times and would do it again if my real life permitted. I have my black belt I'm not fighting on my own behalf I'm fighting for those who don't have these items. and its actually 297 seals for just one chance at all 3..., I've worked with camps for years. I've straight camped Tiamat (yes 8+ hours at one camp alone) up into early morning hours and I do not complain about the current system in place for them or kings, however I do not think it should be changed into this.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Does not matter if people have stored KS, that is a weak pro-argument for this update.

you are basically saying screw you to newer players and players that do not have many KS from trying to get said items in the past.

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

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You make it sound like the system is already in place >_>

I do believe this is a dev discussion thread.. and all of it is subject to change...

Force pops are a good thing... lets hope they add multiple ways to obtain these force pops

Naw, it should be changed to something easier than Kings because the bulk of the people who hated Kings were unable to do them.

Protip: Attentive players can, and always have been able been able to outclaim bots.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

do you guys understand how the system wil work based on notes???

get 99 KS

enter KSNM

get a small chance of BB item with useless crap no one buys anymore and at lest 1 pop item for NQ

pop NQ

do not get BB item
Do not get HQ item even after a few attempts.

system is good? ya right

to me people are saying kings as force pop so must be good, uh no it is not

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Yes, I do understand. From what I gather it's like VNMs, except tier 1 is a 100% Drop. Seems more than fair to me.

SE is obviously making this easier, not harder. It's like their plans for dynamis. "Currency will be reduced but overall there will be more currency due to the amount you can do it" Or whatever they said.

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Originally Posted by SNK

No it's not. If you've played for as long as most people have getting 99 Seals is nothing. Hell I'm sitting on close to 1400 myself which means a lot of people will get stuff off my pops.

And seriously some of you people have had years to obtain Black Belt items before this was annouced. Hell i got my items when my damn MNK was only level 37. This is much better for those of us who still want to get BB items without having to pay for em.

Truth be told I'm only semi interested in Ebody just to finally finish my last piece of King Gear.

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Except people who made money off their KS's. I used majority of my KS back when Royale Ramble had a decent payout, so yeah not every is sitting on thousands of seals.

Buying black belts item isn't even a relevant topic nowadays. Unless someone is specifically there for the black belt item those NMs can just sit up for hours. So not having to buy the items is a poor excuse for the changes.

People always had an alternative to king gear. Majority of people wanted to cry about king gear, but at the same time were too lazy to do the alternative. I personally got my Ebody from Einherjar.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Naw, it should be changed to something easier than Kings because the bulk of the people who hated Kings were unable to do them.

Protip: Attentive players can, and always have been able been able to outclaim bots.

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Regardless of the obvious skill that is required to claim mobs in a video game ( I swore a blood oath to the hindu monks to never reveal their video game claiming secrets)

Its retarded to compete over hnm's or NM's in general.. yes thats an opinion.. and i think its the opinion of most people who play the game.

Most people play to kill NM's and have fun.. not stand around for hours waiting for something to show up.


I think you vastly overestimate the difficulty of hnm's.. sure maybe in 2004 or 2005 the vast majority of players wouldn't be able to kill ground kings.

To suggest that most people can't kill ground kings these days is retarded.

The only issue is actually getting claim.. and this update is helping everybody...

unless you happen to be that one person who was monopolizing the hnm so nobody else could claim ;o

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Originally Posted by Tsuneo

Except people who made money off their KS's. I used majority of my KS back when Royale Ramble had a decent payout, so yeah not every is sitting on thousands of seals.

People always had an alternative to king gear. Majority of people wanted to cry about king gear, but at the same time were to lazy to do the alternative.

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So you got something for your seals. That was your choice. Most of the complaints about this system were the same people complaining about abyssea, wanting xp outside abyssea, and saying hnms were too hard to claim. They got what they asked for. Just because someone blew all their seals making gil off R3 <yes i did the same lol> does not make this bad in anyway, just means they have to go out and get seals. You know, like put a half assed effort forth to go kill ep mobs.

also, this will be a great way to motivate people to start and/or finish their weapon trials. they can now kill their EP mobs while doing trial weapons and getting Kindred Seals for their kings. :)

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

Regardless of the obvious skill that is required to claim mobs in a video game ( I swore a blood oath to the hindu monks to never reveal their video game claiming secrets)

Its retarded to compete over hnm's or NM's in general.. yes thats an opinion.. and i think its the opinion of most people who play the game.

Most people play to kill NM's and have fun.. not stand around for hours waiting for something to show up.


I think you vastly overestimate the difficulty of hnm's.. sure maybe in 2004 or 2005 the vast majority of players wouldn't be able to kill ground kings.

To suggest that most people can't kill ground kings these days is retarded.

The only issue is actually getting claim.. and this update is helping everybody...

unless you happen to be that one person who was monopolizing the hnm so nobody else could claim ;o

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I don't overestimate the difficulty of HNMs. They're shit-easy. I simply take a jaded look at the playerbase and realize they'd probably be equipping their Turbans in their Feet slot if the game didn't prevent them from trying.

I really like the direction theyre headed, with the decrease in BB loot drops, the new trigger systems, and whatnot, its really a step in the right direction for ridding of these damn bandwagons, to let us play jobs freely again. One less pink nin, mnk, perle war, makes a happy kitty.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I don't overestimate the difficulty of HNMs. They're shit-easy. I simply take a jaded look at the playerbase and realize they'd probably be equipping their Turbans in their Feet slot if the game didn't prevent them from trying.

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Yah screw the pansy hnm's in ffxi

they need something like kerafyrm the sleeper from everquest.... (he goes zone to zone and kills everybody and doesn't stop >:U)

Wtf @ this update. Did I just lv to 90 my mnk for nothing -.-. This update is going to drive the price up at camps because now the ls' have to use their KS to pop these nms.

FML. I just wanted to get my black belt and finish capping my h2h so I could be a good tank for my group.

Really, if they're going to go through w/ this, SE better give me my 3 days back that I spent on mnk. I could have been studying or something.

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

Yah screw the pansy hnm's in ffxi

they need something like kerafyrm the sleeper from everquest.... (he goes zone to zone and kills everybody and doesn't stop >:U)

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I thought that the Sleeper had been killed. We basically had AV. Not only that but PW was so hard it actually made it into the news (albeit videogame news.)

And a lot of people have totally missed the fact that now you can kill the nm any time you want, instead of having to camp it at ungodly hours and praying for claim. Think the OP mentioned this also. So its win- win for all those people who have posted tons of complaints about hnm camping.

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Originally Posted by Orson

I thought that the Sleeper had been killed. We basically had AV. Not only that but PW was so hard it actually made it into the news (albeit videogame news.)

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He was supposed to be unkillable, except one guild proved the servers wrong :P. He was a one time release, as an event to rampage the servers.

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Wtf @ this update. Did I just lv to 90 my mnk for nothing -.-. This update is going to drive the price up at camps because now the ls' have to use their KS to pop these nms.

FML. I just wanted to get my black belt and finish capping my h2h so I could be a good tank for my group.

Really, if they're going to go through w/ this, SE better give me my 3 days back that I spent on mnk. I could have been studying or something.

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3 days is nothing really >_>; personally, do we really need another bandwagon mnk lying around parties not pulling its weight? No offense to you, just saying it tends to happen.