FIX Relic Weapons

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Originally Posted by Dew

They said they are creating a new set of the most powerful weapons in the game, aka Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons at Lv.99. It won't be just one set of ether Empyreans, Relics, or Mythics. Most likely it will be all three sets. Never did they say they were making Relics alone the most powerful weapons.

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They said when they added mythics that mythics where intended to be second best to relics and be quest based. I really don't know about empyreans, those came to a shock to me

Just some random ideas.

Relic weapon
1) remove aftermath.
2) remove attack or accuracy bonus.
3) remove 5% chance of doing double or triple damage.
5) the lv require to equip relic should be 75 instead of scaling with magian quests.
6) ws modifier 3.0 should scale with character lv. Each Lv after 75 will give you addition of 0.1
lv99 ws modifier will be 5.4
7) when doing any type of damage with relic weapon, an additional percentage of damage will be added.
It will also scale with character lv.
@Lv75 additional damage is +10%
@Lv99 additional damage is +34% (including magic damage and pet damage).
8) magian quest will increase the D base of the weapon.
9) every job should be able to use at least 1 relic weapon.

Mystic weapon :
1) all 3 types of aftermath effect will be trigger on mystic ws.
2) aftermath effect will scale with character lv.
3) magian quest will increase the D base of the weapon and potency of the jt/ja.
4) ws damage should scale with character lv.

that sounds like a nurf but idoono melee formulas well to say
the 90 version already has more ws power

I'm hoping that the idea with Empy weapons being so powereful was to make people do them and that now that abyssea is over and people have beeing working on empy weapons they will now slowly start boosting relics more to put them back at the top again. As an MMO you want to constantly keep players working on things and putting relics back at the top makes mroe sense than keeping empy weapons which are very east to get at the top.

When you look at most Empyrean weapons they look as if they've been taken from some other game and dropped into FFXI. In my opinion most of them don't fit in with FFXIs style like Relics and Mythics do. If you look at the group pictures of Relics, Mythics and Empyreans on wiki you can see the difference, they look flashy but something's a little off. Relics and Mythics not only look better designed for FFXI, but have statistical benefits unique to their own weapon type, not just "Occasionally deals double damage." on them all; although they do have that hidden effect. Relics and Mythics can dramatically change how you play a job, Empyreans can dramatically change your damage output for that job and that's about it.

Good examples of job changing weapons would be:

Yagrush - Permanent AoE on all -na spells including Erase is unbelievably helpful at making you more efficient on White Mage.

Laevateinn - The Lv.90 version of this has +50 MAB, that's a jump of +10 MAB every 5 levels from Lv.75. While this might still be out done by Magian trial staves, it's still only Lv.90 and I suspect at Lv.95~99 this will have at least +70 MAB and will be the best staff for Black Mage, not only dealing the most damage but saving inventory space.

Carnwenhan and Gjallarhorn - Increased song duration can free up a lot of time for a Bard to help support in other ways such as curing and removing status effects. This can take a lot of stress off of a White Mage or whoever you have healing at the time. Also paired with Gjallarhorn, you can extend the duration at Lv.90 to around 5 minutes or more without the help of Troubadour. Of course Gjallarhorn, before everyone was brainwashed by Abysseas' massive MP Boosts and Refresh Atmas was essential at keeping your White Mage and other mages MP pools filled over long duration battles. Let's just hope fights like we've had at Lv.75 are back at Lv.99, very preferably outside of Abyssea.

Apocalypse - Probably the best Aftermath any Melee could wish for, HP drain and Haste. The weapon skill Catastrophe itself drains HP from the target based on damage dealt, which at Lv.90 gets at least a +25% damage boost. This for Dark Knight makes it possible to stay alive easily and Dark Knight can also become a possible "Tanking" option, even when using the Job Ability Souleater. Of course the HP drain from Catastrophe and its Aftermath healing yourself for 1000 HP+ over a few seconds relieves a lot of stress on a White Mage or again whoever is curing at the time.

Annihilator - Coronach might not be the most powerful weapon skill at the moment for Ranger but it's aftermath is very helpful, even at dealing more damage. The weapon skill itself has reduced enmity to the equivalent of having fired a single shot instead of blasting out 1500+ damage weapon skill at the target, which you are likely to do on the Lv.90 version anyway. This makes it so a Ranger can almost continuously fire shots at the target without getting its attention, making it easier on whoever has "Hate" at the time and even less stress on other support jobs.

Also in future I think that these Empyrean weapon skills will be available to all weapons, just like Mythic weapon skills are obtainable via quests, these might be obtainable via Magian trials to come or more quests. One last thing I'd like to point out is that most Relic and Mythic weapon skills have unique animations, where as most Empyrean weapon skills are older weapon skill animations with new flashy effects.

Each set of weapons was created with different aspects.

Relics focus on Raw damage, Acc, Atk, Racc, Ratk, and each has a unique aftermath.
Relics have the highest base damage in all three of the sets.

Mythics focus on Job specific areas. Many of the aftermaths are simular.
Mythics have the lowest base damage of all three sets.

Empyreans focus on status modifiers. All of the aftermaths are the same.
Empyreans are in the middle base damage wise.

The problem now is that Mythic and Relic ws's have weak modifiers. The weapons bases are fine. The weapons aren't the part that would need any adjustment to even them out, it would be the ws modifiers.

Each set of weapons has a unique set of properties. Damage output isn't the only thing based on the weapons. Effects, Aftermaths, Added effects, etc also come into play.

Unfortunately to most ppl in this game, damage is everything to them. This is why most Relic users are so adamant about fixing their weapons so that they are on top again. But as Dew has said, best way for SE to fix it is to make Mythic and Relic WSs better. Not just a straight up increase in damage like they did at lvl 90 since certain WSs were crap before then, and that extra 25% didn't make them do much to make ppl want to use them.

I want to know why emp weapon's base is higher then mythic then..

Really like to hear what SE intends to have like relic > mythic > emp so we can start properly comment to SE how to go around doing that.

Mythics really needs the most adjusments, like some are under other weapons for some jobs + costing too much money to be quesed based.

I also do not understand why emp weapons where givin level 3 properties when mythics are suck on a level 1 and a level 2.

when mythics first came out I thought having the real mythic weapon would unlock a level 3 property for the mythic ws.

Hmm since there are new normal ws comming out and the best ws is always chainging, would it be ok to give mythics and relics access the emp ws?

lest two of the mythic issues is fixed ( having a level 3 property), then you fix the issue of having to use a weak ws ( like trueflight for the rng mythic, cor mythic, have really weak ws)
if both those ws had acess to wildfire, it would pad thier tatical vaule. (and letting the emp ws trigger aftermaths on mythics).

mythics need ths most fixing, it would be nice to see more of them due to having more vaule in combat.

relics is a bit easier to fix, pad ws damage, change aftermath effect and your gold, mythics has a lot more issues then that

It's been said a dozen times over, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse (too much), but Mythics were stated to be artifacts that improved job specificity. Yagrush is a perfect example. They're not meant to, nor were they ever intended, to be supreme damage-dealing weapons. The only thing that's completely bogus about Mythics is that they're impossible to get. Nobody does Nyzule Isle, ZNM, Einherjar or Salvage anymore with any frequency. You couldn't pay people to help you with that crap for as long as it would take to finish a Mythic. SE did an exemplary job of killing that off indefinitely with the introduction of Abyssea. If anyone is to "fix" Mythics, the requirements to obtain them must first be examined and reworked to fit in the current metagame. The weapons themselves are fine. If you built a Mythic to deal damage only, you made a serious mistake. Dealing tremendous damage is solely the purview of Empyreans. It should also be within the range of Relic weapons, but until notable adjustments are made, Relics will just be squatting on middle ground in terms of usefulness and overall damage capability.

I'll tell you one thing; If they make relics more attainable they lose any credibility they had with me, and many other loyal players.
I bit my tongue when after 4 years of grinding 5 jobs to 75 they made it easier to exp. All that time and effort I spent to get ahead and the status I attained inside the community could now be replicated with less than half the effort.

I bit my tongue when they released toAU tp burns and made the mobs a lot easier to tank and kill. All those years of actually learning party dynamics, and being forced to adapt to different types of mobs, out the window. WS>WS>SC>MB dynamics disappeared forever.

I bit my tongue when they made ridiculously easy to level in Abyssea, and released gear that made everything I had spent the previous decade attaining worthless.

The final nail in the coffer is them making the most prestigious class of weapons in a game obsolete, and then pissing on them and all the hard work that went into attaining them by furthering the insult by making them easy to obtain.

Relics, especially the early ones, represent so much more than just a weapon.
No true FFXI player will ever regard empyreans as anything close in novelty or sentiment to relics.
SE is parting ways with the player base that has kept this game floating for so long, in hopes of appealing to a more casual market player base.

I for one, just haven't really been trying to do anything in game since the relic blows started coming. I just don't see the point. Its not a worthy trade off in my opinion to invest in anything in game anymore. Where SE is demonstrating that everything they had previously said was out the window, and there was weight given to "normalcy" in vana'diel.

They have done the same thing with the FF series. They turned their backs on their customer base, people like me who enjoyed FF1-FF10, and bought every one of them several times over.

SE is really telling me it doesn't like me as a customer. And that our relationship is coming to an end.
Good luck SE! you're about to see that the grass on the other side isn't any greener.

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Originally Posted by Cursed

I'll tell you one thing; If they make relics more attainable they lose any credibility they had with me, and many other loyal players.
I bit my tongue when after 4 years of grinding 5 jobs to 75 they made it easier to exp. All that time and effort I spent to get ahead and the status I attained inside the community could now be replicated with less than half the effort.

I bit my tongue when they released toAU tp burns and made the mobs a lot easier to tank and kill. All those years of actually learning party dynamics, and being forced to adapt to different types of mobs, out the window. WS>WS>SC>MB dynamics disappeared forever.

I bit my tongue when they made ridiculously easy to level in Abyssea, and released gear that made everything I had spent the previous decade attaining worthless.

The final nail in the coffer is them making the most prestigious class of weapons in a game obsolete, and then pissing on them and all the hard work that went into attaining them by furthering the insult by making them easy to obtain.

Relics, especially the early ones, represent so much more than just a weapon.
No true FFXI player will ever regard empyreans as anything close in novelty or sentiment to relics.
SE is parting ways with the player base that has kept this game floating for so long, in hopes of appealing to a more casual market player base.

I for one, just haven't really been trying to do anything in game since the relic blows started coming. I just don't see the point. Its not a worthy trade off in my opinion to invest in anything in game anymore. Where SE is demonstrating that everything they had previously said was out the window, and there was weight given to "normalcy" in vana'diel.

They have done the same thing with the FF series. They turned their backs on their customer base, people like me who enjoyed FF1-FF10, and bought every one of them several times over.

SE is really telling me it doesn't like me as a customer. And that our relationship is coming to an end.
Good luck SE! you're about to see that the grass on the other side isn't any greener.

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stick with it! like i said before I think emp weapons where a mistake, its not the first time i seen shortsidness in making gear ( like any fourm of MAB on weapons, mythic staffs, PW staff)

they make all these random atma buffs and did not realise RR + emp weapon > sick.

here is something in the other thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...you-done/page9

point is I do not understand why mythics where made like they where ( SE said relic > mythic > other weapons when they came out) to have a lot of mythics underperform other weapons.

SE has been short sided on this issue for a while, and people are now even more mad about it because of emp weapons now.

The prices of currecy even reflects SE being short sided, even back when relics where the only thing. not all relics where "good". The "good" ones that where done a lot more vs others took a lot of bronze so people sold that type a lot higher then the rest. sandy is not hard, in fact I would call it the easiest one to do.

weapons that are most heavy in bronze ( first weapon on the list takes the most)
Shield (125-30)
Bow(119-30)
club (105-30)
GS (104-30)
sword (104-30)
GKT (103-30)
Gun (62)
staff (62)
Katana (61)
Polorm (61)
horn (60)
great axe (60)

FFXI AH lists:

515 shields
357 scythe
346 GKT
279 dagger
243 horn
148 GA
147 bow
137 sword
95 h2h
92 gun
72 Katana
49 polarm
20 GS
13 club
11 axe
10 staff

total spent:
13 551 300 byne
18 352 700 silver
13 403 800 shell

anyone see a problem with this? there is a ton of silver being spent because the "better" relics eat a lot of them sheild *not so much now i understand that relic shield is not good now*, bow, gun, GKT, horn are the ones that are seen as good out of them, then you can pair up bow/GKT, sword/sheild on one job that makes it even worse if someone is really hard core on those jobs. those 2 pairings of weapons, those 4 all requre gold pieces.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

stick with it! like i said before I think emp weapons where a mistake, its not the first time i seen shortsidness in making gear ( like any fourm of MAB on weapons, mythic staffs, PW staff)

they make all these random atma buffs and did not realise RR + emp weapon > sick.

here is something in the other thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...you-done/page9

point is I do not understand why mythics where made like they where ( SE said relic > mythic > other weapons when they came out) to have a lot of mythics underperform other weapons.

SE has been short sided on this issue for a while, and people are now even more mad about it because of emp weapons now.

The prices of currecy even reflects SE being short sided, even back when relics where the only thing. not all relics where "good". The "good" ones that where done a lot more vs others took a lot of bronze so people sold that type a lot higher then the rest. sandy is not hard, in fact I would call it the easiest one to do.

weapons that are most heavy in bronze ( first weapon on the list takes the most)
Shield (125-30)
Bow(119-30)
club (105-30)
GS (104-30)
sword (104-30)
GKT (103-30)
Gun (62)
staff (62)
Katana (61)
Polorm (61)
horn (60)
great axe (60)

FFXI AH lists:

515 shields
357 scythe
346 GKT
279 dagger
243 horn
148 GA
147 bow
137 sword
95 h2h
92 gun
72 Katana
49 polarm
20 GS
13 club
11 axe
10 staff

total spent:
13 551 300 byne
18 352 700 silver
13 403 800 shell

anyone see a problem with this? there is a ton of silver being spent because the "better" relics eat a lot of them sheild *not so much now i understand that relic shield is not good now*, bow, gun, GKT, horn are the ones that are seen as good out of them, then you can pair up bow/GKT, sword/sheild on one job that makes it even worse if someone is really hard core on those jobs. those 2 pairings of weapons, those 4 all requre gold pieces.

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515 shields
in other words "515 really pissed off PLDs"

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Originally Posted by Cursed

515 shields
in other words "515 really pissed off PLDs"

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lol ya =/

I'm sure some quit, some new ones where made, but the overall trend is the same, the relic weapons that are usually picked are ones that are high cost in bronze (which can reflect that each weapon is not truly best for every class like the staff) even back at 75 when relics was the only thing. SE said themselves they really do not consider complaints about an issue unless a lot of people speak up about it (statement SE made when asked about the shortcomings on SMN)
So relics where never fixed.

Then came mythic, and yet again not many cared to step up and say "hey most of these weapons suck"

Now that emp weapons are out people really start to care. The imbalances are now very glaring with those weapons out and it is time to fix them.
I'm pretty sure SE does not know, they throw random stats on stuff a lot without though testing. (they had a lot of time to balance relics among themselves and make them appropriate for the jobs, same with mythic)

I still don't get why people are asking these questions now. There is a lot more to come in the next few years of FFXI, and it's going to keep moving further from the original concept of the FF franchise. I'm going to put my money on the next idea, Enix will probably bring something new to the board after the 90 cap has been lifted, and it will probably be better than Emp or Relic, and most likely just as "easy" to get.

Try not to think of what is currently bad in the current game, but how it's going to get worse, lets try to stop them making the game worse, before they actually do. Remeber, prevention is better than cure, and we all know Enix will never fix this game and bring into the glory it once had.

i don't support make relic weapons the best again, and more now that dynamis is going to be modified, who knows if they will be accesible for everyone in a near future.
Imo, a good solution would be to make relic and empyrean ws accesible with any weapons (like mythic ws are) with any trial or something, and just make relic's, empyrean's and mythic's aftermaths work with any ws, just for having the weapon equiped, make the weapons be unique just by their aftermaths, in a way that all 3 do the same amount of damage in comparation with the others but they give a unique buff that makes them usefull dependig on the situation.
That way if they were supposed to be the legendary weapons, they will still be, but that doesn't mean that they should be better than other legendary weapons and if you really like a job you will work to have all 3 and use one or another depending on the situation.

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Originally Posted by Arcalimo

i don't support make relic weapons the best again, and more now that dynamis is going to be modified, who knows if they will be accesible for everyone in a near future.
Imo, a good solution would be to make relic and empyrean ws accesible with any weapons (like mythic ws are) with any trial or something, and just make relic's, empyrean's and mythic's aftermaths work with any ws, just for having the weapon equiped, make the weapons be unique just by their aftermaths, in a way that all 3 do the same amount of damage in comparation with the others but they give a unique buff that makes them usefull dependig on the situation.
That way if they were supposed to be the legendary weapons, they will still be, but that doesn't mean that they should be better than other legendary weapons and if you really like a job you will work to have all 3 and use one or another depending on the situation.

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Wow terrible idea. Suck less. Another no hoper who hasn't put the time or effort into getting a relic or mythic.

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Originally Posted by Michaeluk

Wow terrible idea. Suck less. Another no hoper who hasn't put the time or effort into getting a relic or mythic.

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I did state a similar idea though it was more of a let relics and mythics access the emp ws and allow those ws trigger the aftereffect as well.

It would fix mythics needing a level 3 ws, not using bad ws ( most mythics anyway drakesbane is nice).

for the most part the D on weapons is washy, some its relic > mythic > emp, some its relic=mythic> emp some its relic>emp> mythic

I really think SE forgot about mythics and thier issues =/

like I said before mythics need the most boosting, people don't do them as is, emps made that situation worse.

should be mroe then club and SMM staff

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Originally Posted by Michaeluk

Wow terrible idea. Suck less. Another no hoper who hasn't put the time or effort into getting a relic or mythic.

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Yeah, because a relic/mythic would be nice to my rdm or my blm that are my main jobs, try with another card man.
If you had put the "time" and "effort" into getting a relic im sorry for you, you wasted 200M in a piece of junk and now you have to come cry here.
And i wouldn't call it "time" and "effort" to just buying gil and buy the currency and pay a ls for the kills, that or just use some ppl to work for your relic to later give them nothing in exchange, im sorry but im not that selfish and im glad that my jobs don't need a relic to be cool.
If you don't like a idea say so but dont come here flaming people, discuss or propose another thing or stfu.

Actually by doing aftermath work with other weaponskills you could use the new wss and still benefit from your relic, or you want them to add new stuff to just keep using old ws and abilities? that's not how stuff has to work, adding new content to just stick with old content is retarded

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Originally Posted by Arcalimo

Yeah, because a relic/mythic would be nice to my rdm or my blm that are my main jobs, try with another card man.
If you had put the "time" and "effort" into getting a relic im sorry for you, you wasted 200M in a piece of junk and now you have to come cry here.
And i wouldn't call it "time" and "effort" to just buying gil and buy the currency and pay a ls for the kills, that or just use some ppl to work for your relic to later give them nothing in exchange, im sorry but im not that selfish and im glad that my jobs don't need a relic to be cool.
If you don't like a idea say so but dont come here flaming people, discuss or propose another thing or stfu.

Actually by doing aftermath work with other weaponskills you could use the new wss and still benefit from your relic, or you want them to add new stuff to just keep using old ws and abilities? that's not how stuff has to work, adding new content to just stick with old content is retarded

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First of you state you don't have a job to use a relic well why are you even in this topic posting ?

If you think everyone bought gil to get a relic then you are a complete moron and maybe you shouldn't judge people by your own gil buying standards.

Of course what you people seem to forget the ones who seem to be hateing on relics now is that to get a relic people need to farm the gil to get the currency, get all the dynamis drops and then the trials when they now eventually get the base 75 weapon. This is a lot more work then spamming some very easy nms for 1-2days to get a empy. The dynamis part of the trial 85-90 itself takes longer to do than make a empy.

P.s wank face i've got a relic and a emp, and im telling you that the relic should be the better weapon at 99, come back when you have spent time working on a relic until then you really can't judge, so you kindly stfu sir.

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Originally Posted by Arcalimo

Yeah, because a relic/mythic would be nice to my rdm or my blm that are my main jobs, try with another card man.
If you had put the "time" and "effort" into getting a relic im sorry for you, you wasted 200M in a piece of junk and now you have to come cry here.
And i wouldn't call it "time" and "effort" to just buying gil and buy the currency and pay a ls for the kills, that or just use some ppl to work for your relic to later give them nothing in exchange, im sorry but im not that selfish and im glad that my jobs don't need a relic to be cool.
If you don't like a idea say so but dont come here flaming people, discuss or propose another thing or stfu.

Actually by doing aftermath work with other weaponskills you could use the new wss and still benefit from your relic, or you want them to add new stuff to just keep using old ws and abilities? that's not how stuff has to work, adding new content to just stick with old content is retarded

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You really don't get it do you.

In other news, glad to see so many agree. Come on SE fix them.

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.

So many delicious tears gathered in one spot.

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Originally Posted by Arcalimo

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like Michaeluk, are just e-peens that thought they were better than anyone and others players suck or are noobs.
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.

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Wow you are beyond retarded. Guess you missed the point were i said i own a empy weapon aswell. I still stick by what i said relics should outclass the much easier weapon to get.

No point even going any further with you.

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Originally Posted by Arcalimo

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.
Last edited by Bublex; Today at 03:28 PM. Reason: Content was edited by Moderator due to violation of Forum Guidelines.

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I have no idea what you are talking about. This is the first time in 7 years SE is actually replacing stuff.
SE did not do a good job replacing elemental staffs with that PW staff, or even the 75 mythic, so how can you say new stuff = better? this is not WoW! Abyssea was the first time that they appealed to "entitlement" as well.

You said it is a good thing I am a BLM and RDM that you don't need hard to get weapons to be cool. that’s part of the problem, mythics are not appealing to all jobs, you honestly don't want to strive to a big long term goal?

Saying emps should be best is just lol, no ambition.

When I first started off I was a BLM and I was planning to get relic staff because that was my job. When I started to play other jobs and liked rng so I started to strive for bow to be my goal.

What is the logic of replacing that takes years to do? All you are doing is trying to act big in saying “lol you spent so much time for nothing”
It makes no sense to say relic and mythic weapon should be out of date other than to laugh at the people that went to got them

SE gave relics highest D on weapon so it seems SE wants relics to be best. SE has shown to make mistakes. "emp weapons" seems like a mistake of being best because atma was not factored in.

you really think SE made PW to drop a staff to underperform elemental staffs on purpose? SE made a lot of gear that makes no sence where it looks like they throw random stats on stuff and hope it works.

Emp weapons is the newest mistake of that.
90% of items SE makes are not ment to replace but to close gaps of have and have nots, SE is forced to replace stuff now since level is 90, and they would not make relic weapon trials if they had your views.

emps are fine to brige gap of have not, but outdoing relics? no

If you read my first post i said that all 3 should be equal in terms of damage, after all they are suposed to be legendary weapons. What i do mean is that if you have to make ones strongers than others empyreans should be the strongers.
That you spend X years in to get an item is not a reason for it to last forever, or do you play just for items, actually i think we all play to have fun and spend our time, new content should be good news for everyone, and aiming for them to let relics or any 75 gear remain as the best gear is just stay in the past, by that logic AF3 shouldn't exist either? or we have to spend this time getting items that at 99 will be outperformed by augmented level 75 gear? for that we could just stick with what we had and do nothing til 99 comes in.
And ambition? if i had ambition i would be working on empyrean instead of crying in every forum about how they "nerfed" my weapon or gear, and id be happy since they gave me something better than what i had before, but no the problem is not ambition, its that people its not happy seeing that everyone can get a empyrean now easy, and before they were only a few the ones that had relic weapons, thats the problem, that people is just jelaous that most casual players can have the same gear as a dedicated player now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcalimo

no, you are the ones that don't get it, the game advanced and you gotta accept it.
And you know whats the funny part of it?
That a big portion of relic holders, like [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]
Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)
And yes, its clear that they should enhance them(woe shouldnt beat them) but no way to make them the best weapons in game again, the new content should be better than the old content as is normal, or were you wearing af1 at 75 because it was the best at 60?
Finally SE noticed that wasn't fair for the mayority of player to been months working for someone and don't get something in exchange, now in that time you can get the best weapon in game for everyone that was helping.
Maybe they made it too easy(mnk+whm > all), but the idea of a group of 4-6 players being able to clear all the stuff isn't bad at all.
The times of some e-peen players taking advantage of others to get they shit is over, now you can just gather with your close friends and get your shit w/o having to deal with some morons, and that is what should have been done long ago.
Stop complaining about your old outdated gear and weapons, they are going to be easier to get after the update, even then, they are easy to get now that 3 ppl can overkill a dynanis, and dont tell me that kill 5000 easy prey mobs is harder and less time consuming than kill 75 apademak for example, because you can solo the 5000 mobs w/o competition and you need help for apademak, plus its overcamped. So yeah Empyrean > Relic
You get it now? this is a MMO, and MMOs change over time, if you dont like you know where the door its, but i really doubt that anyone that had enought adiction to work for a relic leaves the game instead of getting a empyrean, so don't put false words of people in your mouth, as no one is gonna quit for this.

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huh? Noobs slapping a relic holder in the face wut? Clearly You have had a bad experience with some relic holder. In my experience, relic holders have always been great and goodwill ambassadors of the game. You CLEARLY and I emphasize *CLEARLY* Have NO CLUE what you are babbling about.

Relics are *rare*, and if you wanna be pimped out being a clone like everyone else wearing an emp weapon, go ahead, congratulations. FFXI is a stand alone game, stop comparing it to WOW where everyone is the same clone and leaves no one to stand out with something precious and exceptional. This isn't WOW, go play that.

Well i think it is a matter of taste myself, There are the abyssea weapons out now and they are very nice, but to be honest i am still going to go for my relic weapon just because i want it. Even if the abyssea weapon does more dmg and is ten times better then a relic that wont change the fact that i simply want my relic. (and rambus . . . . you have my bow give it back!! =P j/k) Ranger was my main job up until i could never get help with anything , then i swapped it to ninja. I love both those jobs very much so i will be trying to get the relic weapons on both. Why do i want the relic you may ask, to me it a personal goal, same as getting the Usukane set. Is there pieces out there that are better, im sure there may be but i don't really care. The same thing with selene's bow, it took me 8hrs of camping that Nm b4 i finally got it only to turn around less then 2 weeks later to get the Seige bow. So i guess there are those of us who get armor and weapons just for the stat's and those of us who get them because the personal time and sense of accomplishment we feel after getting them. I just wanted to put this out there is all. Not saying you are one or the other Arcalimo, but just try and think of it as some of the people did it for their own reasons.

Does anyone on this page know what a paragraph is?

Can't be arsed reading wall-o-text.

SE - Fix relics.

That is all.

There's no doubt that the original system for obtaining relic weapons was slightly broken and required a large number of people working together for months or even a year or more, for the goal of getting 1 person the best weapon (at the time) in the game. Once you have that Lv75 weapon now, the rest of it is just monotonous activity that you can do solo for the most part until the final 2 boosts which requires, once again, for you to bring together a group of people to devote their time so that just 1 person can get a weapon even stronger.

I want to see Relics return to the top tier. I don't own one yet, but the prize should equal the effort. Now, I would like to see a less exploitative method for obtaining them (which the new Dynamis system sounds like it will do a little bit), but in the end, 10+ months of work should give you a bigger reward than 2-3 weeks.

Maybe the higher levels should see an increase in the activation of the additional effect or maybe an increase in their potency as well as the potency of the weaponskill aftermaths?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcalimo

Now SE slaped em in the face and a lot of those "noobs" can slap a relic holder in the face with just a woe +1 weapon and make you cry and complain.
Looks like the karma came around :)

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Clearly hasn't played with 90% of people with Masamune. They're pretty much all terrible.

I agree they should increase relic weapon dmg.

1 thing they could do is to add stat boosts that are aligned to the weapon skill on relic weapons. Put AGI on Gugnir to enhance Geirskogul, for example. Or they should change the modifiers for those weapon skills.

Another thing they could do - as the relic weapon is powered up, the trigger rate of the bonus damage goes up as well.

Yeah, changing the modifier to either str/dex/vit is much better for DRG.

Hmm we could say all relic ws need str and dex as mod, same with emps and mythics, but would that be too much cloning?

someone feel to rebuttle this but STR is best mod on a ws, since it enters twice in a formula, then DEX esp if it is a crt hit type

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rambus

Hmm we could say all relic ws need str and dex as mod, same with emps and mythics, but would that be too much cloning?

someone feel to rebuttle this but STR is best mod on a ws, since it enters twice in a formula, then DEX esp if it is a crt hit type

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I don't know the math of it but Blade: Hi is quite beastly and uses AGI mod.

I just think it needs crit boosts. Eh should just link you all to the other post. There are better ideas on that one.

Here is an extremely random thought and will probably get shot down in an instant.

Remember FF8 how you had to spam the square button at certain times to boost it? Or in FFX how you had 3 chances to hit the middle of the moving bar for Tidus's limit to be worth it?

Could implement something similar for relics to bypass the whole "stats only" thing. The boost would be quite substantial and would say guarentee crit hits or something similar (As if you SA'd it).

The idea is probably extremely flawed, subject to issues regarding lag, slow down the speed of the WS itself...

Think I just proved how bad an idea it was... But oh well.

I don't know I thought ws could be more interactive like FF8 where you hit a button at the right time ti was crt or w/e.

but tp gain is so fast now these days and the problems you said hold true as well.

if we made all relic , mythic, emp all with crt ws with same mods would that be a bit boring?

could base the mods on jobs liek dnc, thf, nin, are like heavy in agi and dex so you can make them the mods with a bit of str.

heavy hitters like war, drk,sam would be str mainly (this is a problem with drk SE put INT more then this)

drg, mnk, could be str and dex

rng be str and agi ( like most now anyway)

BLM and SCH would be heavy with INT mods
RDM would be mind and int
SMN would be mind and int ( no idea why but they do have a good rating with these stats)
those stats would function like str does with normal melee
maybe ill give some reason for lolemp staff, or melee with mythics since all mythics have effects based on getting tp-.- =/.

BLU would use a bit of every stat of this mod

Since I am talking job specific it would be suggestions for emp ws i guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rambus

could base the mods on jobs liek dnc, thf, nin, are like heavy in agi and dex so you can make them the mods with a bit of str.

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NO!

Mercy Stroke is good because it uses a STR mod. Heca is the best DEX set for THF, but it also has even more STR than DEX. Changing Mercy Stroke to DEX or AGI would be a downgrade.

Yes but wouldn't u like another 50% of damage added on Atomic? or 100%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fetus

This. Quit thinking you're something special. It is just a game.

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Yeah, I am really tired of hearing this elitist whine-fest. For serious. Boo-hoo, I deserve to be the best because I got a relic weapon 5 years ago. Woe is me! Boooo-hoo!

You got to be the best for years with that weapon - now if you want to continue to be the best you need to work hard again. Cry me a river. Asking SE to upgrade your weapon so you can feel superior to other players without doing any work is crap as far as I am concerned.