Is FFXI getting a cash shop?

They'd have to develop a working payment system before they can have a cash shop.

Vanity or not, I do not like the idea in XI. For two different reasons--the first is that XI has a certain style, and the majority of armor is 'realistic'. Not all, but the majority looks like it would be protective. A lot of vanity in games seems to be either hilariously flashy gear or out of universe (Cloud's armor, Squall's SeeD gear, Tidus's whatever-the-heck-he-wore) that wouldn't fit in Vana'diel well.

The second reason, frankly, is we pay XI and expect all content to be available. If you want a neat hat, I don't want to ever have to go "So does that drop from something mean, or did you simply buy it?" I say no to cash shop in any form.

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Originally Posted by Deirdre

Vanity or not, I do not like the idea in XI. For two different reasons--the first is that XI has a certain style, and the majority of armor is 'realistic'. Not all, but the majority looks like it would be protective. A lot of vanity in games seems to be either hilariously flashy gear or out of universe (Cloud's armor, Squall's SeeD gear, Tidus's whatever-the-heck-he-wore) that wouldn't fit in Vana'diel well.

The second reason, frankly, is we pay XI and expect all content to be available. If you want a neat hat, I don't want to ever have to go "So does that drop from something mean, or did you simply buy it?" I say no to cash shop in any form.

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If you think a lot of armor in this game looks realistic compared to other games out there, you're daffy. This game has its subtleties but then it again it has subligars too. And have you seen those on Galka legs... DAMN!

As for the going out and purchasing something more than the monthly sub... Don't purchase anything more. No one is telling you to go out and buy something more than what you think it is worth. Some people enjoy spending extra for things like Mog hat or Gobby suit. The items dont give the players anything extra aside from looks.

Who knows, the shop may also have race/name/face/hair changes as well. I mean, people have been asking for that a lot. Would that not be cool to have?

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Originally Posted by Finuve

I'd quit if they added one

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Oooooops I guess I'M the only one that thought he was referring to the cross dressing post above him. (Which I kinda want to see but don't want to see) :eek:

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Originally Posted by Camiie

They'd have to develop a working payment system before they can have a cash shop.

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(burn)

Personally the notion that inputting CC numbers and paying, rather than playing the game to advance is moronic, its a game... to play it is the whole idea is it not?

From the issues of players being fully equipped but having no idea how to play a job, to the devs becoming lazy and just adding stuff to the "cash shop" rather than making exiting challenging content for said drop is not great prospect.

The only way it would work for me personally is if they had either a rmt'er icon viewable to distinguish the rmters, or separate servers.

I think subscription based games should NEVER have a cash shop. Where is this going to end?

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

I think subscription based games should NEVER have a cash shop. Where is this going to end?

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dunno, modern MMO design has dictated that people that enjoy vanity items should have to pay for them instead of collecting in game, and juggernauts like WoW have decided that the leveling process is no longer a worthwhile part of the game and just let you buy your way past it.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

Where is this going to end?

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When a cash shop added to it will no longer provide enough extra revenue to keep it up.
Keep in mind that, as I have mentioned before, your money is more important to the company than your petty protests.

And looking at the amount of $24,- Odin horses I see pass by on my Guildwork feed, paired with the plethora of messages of people getting caught in the log in queue the cash shop has already proven more successful in FFXIV than the protests of people saying that they will quit the game over it.
I'm pretty sure that they've already considered adding one to this game, and with the success of the one implemented for XIV implementation is just a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

When a cash shop added to it will no longer provide enough extra revenue to keep it up.
Keep in mind that, as I have mentioned before, your money is more important to the company than your petty protests.

And looking at the amount of $24,- Odin horses I see pass by on my Guildwork feed, paired with the plethora of messages of people getting caught in the log in queue the cash shop has already proven more successful in FFXIV than the protests of people saying that they will quit the game over it.
I'm pretty sure that they've already considered adding one to this game, and with the success of the one implemented for XIV implementation is just a matter of time.

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This. +1

A few people squabbling about "No Cash Shop" isn't going to stop them from adding one when literally hundreds of thousands of players are going to race to the shop for exclusive merchandise anyways. Square Enix loves you, sure. But they love your wallet more. That's just business for you. That's not to say they wont treat you nice and wipe your precious little booty for the right price. :)

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

If you think a lot of armor in this game looks realistic compared to other games out there, you're daffy. This game has its subtleties but then it again it has subligars too. And have you seen those on Galka legs... DAMN!

As for the going out and purchasing something more than the monthly sub... Don't purchase anything more. No one is telling you to go out and buy something more than what you think it is worth. Some people enjoy spending extra for things like Mog hat or Gobby suit. The items dont give the players anything extra aside from looks.

Who knows, the shop may also have race/name/face/hair changes as well. I mean, people have been asking for that a lot. Would that not be cool to have?

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I simply meant the armor STYLE. The graphics of course are behind brand new games, but the majority of armor that you purchase tends to have protective layers of mail or leather, not giant exposed boobs that are miraculously protected by the aura of the armor or whatever XD.

I agree with face and hair options, but why should we PAY for it? Why shouldn't we earn that in a quest if SE really wants to offer it? Give us a barber NPC that we have to escort from jeuno at level capped 20, fine, but I'd prefer that we didn't get in the habit where the answer was always "put it on the cash shop!".

Sorry but they are a business so they will want to make money. Look at all the idiots buying 24 dollar Odin mounts and 40+ dollars on two accounts so they can get their own 2 seat chocobo in FFXIV. The model works unfortunately because of people like that.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

Sorry but they are a business so they will want to make money. Look at all the idiots buying 24 dollar Odin mounts and 40+ dollars on two accounts so they can get their own 2 seat chocobo in FFXIV. The model works unfortunately because of people like that.

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Well hopefully, considering that the FFXI playerbase is largely older and "set in their ways", maybe they'll refrain from adding a shop here out of fear of backlash. I'm pretty sure the Japanese FFXI playerbase wouldn't be to keen on it either.

Ultimately though, I guess if the shop ever becomes a necessary evil to keep the game from getting shut down, it'd be the better alternative I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

Sorry but they are a business so they will want to make money. Look at all the idiots buying 24 dollar Odin mounts and 40+ dollars on two accounts so they can get their own 2 seat chocobo in FFXIV. The model works unfortunately because of people like that.

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I pretty much blame those people for how awful the MMO genre is anymore.

It boggles my mind that people accept getting their wallets pillaged so horribly in a subscription based game

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Originally Posted by Seillan

Well hopefully, considering that the FFXI playerbase is largely older and "set in their ways", maybe they'll refrain from adding a shop here out of fear of backlash.

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I doubt it, I really do.
To be fair, the whole "set in their ways" died long ago, the game has changed and so has a lot of the playerbase and the ones truly set in their old ways quit and moved on long ago.

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I'm pretty sure the Japanese FFXI playerbase wouldn't be to keen on it either.

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Sorry, but I have to YOINK those rose tinted glasses off.
You are grossly underestimating the willingness of the Japanese when it comes to paying extra for useless trinkets related to something they like, physical or digital doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Seillan

Well hopefully, considering that the FFXI playerbase is largely older and "set in their ways", maybe they'll refrain from adding a shop here out of fear of backlash. I'm pretty sure the Japanese FFXI playerbase wouldn't be to keen on it either.

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Have to very much disagree. Check out Decazoom Mk-XI and Escritorio, two of the more recent includes with physical merchandise in Japan. Yes, that's an all jobs gun + camera, and an all jobs polearm that looks like a giant quill pen. Neither are within "lore" as some may say, they're very much out of place in the game. While things like these, the Tidal Talisman, various hats and clubs they've given away over the years, etc, were not available directly from a cash shop, they did require further purchases to acquire. Whether it's due to this generation of gamers or whatever you may want to blame, a vast number have no issue with shelling out extra to get something extra, cosmetic or otherwise.

I'd be more surprised if SE doesn't add a cash shop at this point.

As long as it stays cosmetic, all good. Can always dat swap all the cash shop stuff to something really shitty looking!

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Originally Posted by Shirai

I doubt it, I really do.
To be fair, the whole "set in their ways" died long ago, the game has changed and so has a lot of the playerbase and the ones truly set in their old ways quit and moved on long ago.

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I'm going to have to disagree somewhat because I believe Seillan is making a point I agree with.

A lot of us have been turned off by modern trends in the MMORPG genre and returned home to FF XI. Quite a few of the older players I once knew still play this game, and all of them attempted to get into Final Fantasy 14 but just couldn't. So I really do think the only thing keeping Final Fantasy XI alive at this point is its appeal with older more traditional RPGers who are set in their ways and refuse to change to go along with this new generation of gamers. And to abandon that and give in to modern trends would doom this game I believe.

This game has changed over the years. You are right about that. But it still retains much of its original design and plays very differently to the modern MMORPG. This game still has long term goals and an emphasis on hard work - rewarding the player based on their in-game efforts rather the thickness of their wallet. So I think if they start adding a lot of the modern-day bells and whistles - like cash shops for example - they will be walking a very thin line and risk alienating the very people keeping this game alive.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

Sorry but they are a business so they will want to make money. Look at all the idiots buying 24 dollar Odin mounts and 40+ dollars on two accounts so they can get their own 2 seat chocobo in FFXIV. The model works unfortunately because of people like that.

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This is a niche game though. It will never be able to compete with newer games by using similar tactics.

To be successful in today's market you have to either copy WoW (like Final Fantasy 14 did), become F2P/P2W - or offer a unique experience that appeals to a smaller audience that's willing to pay for something different. I just don't see where a Final Fantasy XI would fit in if it started trying to become more like Final Fantasy 14. I just think it's a bad move.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

I doubt it, I really do.
To be fair, the whole "set in their ways" died long ago, the game has changed and so has a lot of the playerbase and the ones truly set in their old ways quit and moved on long ago.


Sorry, but I have to YOINK those rose tinted glasses off.
You are grossly underestimating the willingness of the Japanese when it comes to paying extra for useless trinkets related to something they like, physical or digital doesn't matter.

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To Shirai's point, the Japanese very much like their cosmetic and novelty items for just about anything. Software and Game developers just took it a step further and added this point of sale to their digital products. And not to alienate any cultures, but people around the world have picked up this habit as well.

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Originally Posted by Dale

I'm going to have to disagree somewhat because I believe Seillan is making a point I agree with.

A lot of us have been turned off by modern trends in the MMORPG genre and returned home to FF XI. Quite a few of the older players I once knew still play this game, and all of them attempted to get into Final Fantasy 14 but just couldn't. So I really do think the only thing keeping Final Fantasy XI alive at this point is its appeal with older more traditional RPGers who are set in their ways and refuse to change to go along with this new generation of gamers. And to abandon that and give in to modern trends would doom this game I believe.

This game has changed over the years. You are right about that. But it still retains much of its original design and plays very differently to the modern MMORPG. This game still has long term goals and an emphasis on hard work - rewarding the player based on their in-game efforts rather the thickness of their wallet. So I think if they start adding a lot of the modern-day bells and whistles - like cash shops for example - they will be walking a very thin line and risk alienating the very people keeping this game alive.

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I've found a lot of people who dislike other MMOs are those who dislike being outside of their comfort zone. Moving to a new game with no friends and a new system of play. This can make a new player feel very uncomfortable and alienated. These same people believe the game they are trying new is just not for them and then go back to something they know well and are comfortable in. And in honesty, this is just human nature. No one likes to be outside of their comfort zone. It's just like being a kid in school and then having to move. The feeling of being in a different place is scary. I relate a lot of this nature to people moving from FFxi to FFxiv. But this is for a different topic.

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Originally Posted by Dale

This is a niche game though. It will never be able to compete with newer games by using similar tactics.

To be successful in today's market you have to either copy WoW (like Final Fantasy 14 did), become F2P/P2W - or offer a unique experience that appeals to a smaller audience that's willing to pay for something different. I just don't see where a Final Fantasy XI would fit in if it started trying to become more like Final Fantasy 14. I just think it's a bad move.

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And this is why I think them adding a Cash shop might make them a bit more money before they have to kill the game. Give you all the goodies in/out of game so you can feel like you are a part of the grandeur that is FFxi.

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

And this is why I think them adding a Cash shop might make them a bit more money before they have to kill the game. Give you all the goodies in/out of game so you can feel like you are a part of the grandeur that is FFxi.

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That feeling of 'being part of the FFXI grandeur' occurs when you log in and play FFXI. You don't have to pay extra money in a giftshop to have that feeling.

Also on "kill the game" some people in the player community have been saying "FFXI is dying" since early 2005. So I will really wait for an official SE announcement before I start thinking the game is dying or about to be killed.

Its worth remembering that FFXI has paid for FF14 to remain on life-support for such a long time. Not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

That feeling of 'being part of the FFXI grandeur' occurs when you log in and play FFXI. You don't have to pay extra money in a giftshop to have that feeling.

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That feeling is simply subjective. Some players feel the full feeling of grandeur is to have all elements to the product. Others simply feel it by being a part of it. This can be taken many different ways. Big business likes giving the consumer the option to taken on novelty items to give them that full effect. Yeah, it might cost a bit more money to obtain, but obviously a lot of people are OK with this.

Good example of this was when the mini-stories were released. SE made those add-ons purely independent of the main game. Yes, you can use the items they give you, but you didn't have to buy them at all. And infact, there was an up roar about those being looked at in the same light. "Why should I have to pay for more of something to keep up with the next person when I already pay you 12.99/month..." This is just the way SE has done business for years... It's nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Also on "kill the game" some people in the player community have been saying "FFXI is dying" since early 2005. So I will really wait for an official SE announcement before I start thinking the game is dying or about to be killed.

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Never said the game was going to die soon. But that lack of player base really does make you wonder where it's going.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Its worth remembering that FFXI has paid for FF14 to remain on life-support for such a long time. Not the other way around.

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True. Thank you for the reminder of older days. But may I remind you what is keeping FFxi a live to this day? Must be those hundreds of thousands of subscribers it has still.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/55731154.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Some players feel the full feeling of grandeur is to have all elements to the product. Others simply feel it by being a part of it. This can be taken many different ways.

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You get "the elements to the product" by "simply being a part of it."

In the quote above you have chosen to separate playing the game and obtaining items from that game. But this is your predilection, and has no bearing on the nature of gaming.

Role-playing games have been around since the 1970s, computergames started shortly after. RPG and other games have always been about playing the game in order to make progress. The concept of playing the game to make progress is a 30+ year old concept. The concept of just paying money for progress is a new concept by comparison.

FFXI is a very unique game, it has charted hitherto unsailed waters, being the first seriously popular long running mainstream RPG, which retains a lot of the old RPG values. There are no maps for where FFXI has travelled, or is going to travel. That is because it is sailing alone on uncharted seas. Therefor speculation on its fate is just that - speculation. We can't look back on the history of games and compare FFXI to other games, because no other game has done what FFXI did, and continues to do.

I have already agreed that things like Tidal and Moogle cap etc. would be nice additions for new players or players who missed the original purchase. I have no problem with shops for fun gift items. I have a problem with shops selling progress, or currency, or items that people have poured years of effort into obtaining. You are skating around that issue a lot, you seem to want to be able to buy HQ gear or progress from a cash shop, but you are very obtuse and vague about this. I would say that this is contra to the FFXI adventurer spirit and roleplaying culture, which is about working towards goals with likeminded adventurers, not just clicking a BUY button in a cash shop.
:cool:

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Originally Posted by Stompa

You get "the elements to the product" by "simply being a part of it."

In the quote above you have chosen to separate playing the game and obtaining items from that game. But this is your predilection, and has no bearing on the nature of gaming.

Role-playing games have been around since the 1970s, computergames started shortly after. RPG and other games have always been about playing the game in order to make progress. The concept of playing the game to make progress is a 30+ year old concept. The concept of just paying money for progress is a new concept by comparison.

FFXI is a very unique game, it has charted hitherto unsailed waters, being the first seriously popular long running mainstream RPG, which retains a lot of the old RPG values. There are no maps for where FFXI has travelled, or is going to travel. That is because it is sailing alone on uncharted seas. Therefor speculation on its fate is just that - speculation. We can't look back on the history of games and compare FFXI to other games, because no other game has done what FFXI did, and continues to do.

I have already agreed that things like Tidal and Moogle cap etc. would be nice additions for new players or players who missed the original purchase. I have no problem with shops for fun gift items. I have a problem with shops selling progress, or currency, or items that people have poured years of effort into obtaining. You are skating around that issue a lot, you seem to want to be able to buy HQ gear or progress from a cash shop, but you are very obtuse and vague about this. I would say that this is contra to the FFXI adventurer spirit and roleplaying culture, which is about working towards goals with likeminded adventurers, not just clicking a BUY button in a cash shop.
:cool:

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I don't even know where to start with the above history lesson you are trying to give me. Where there are some points to your argument, there also seems to be some points missing from the same timeline and overall business you are trying to defend. I won't go into detail here as it would be too long of a response. Just know that FFxi is not the first to do A LOT of what it has here.

As for me walking a fine line... Is that not what we are suppose to do when asking questions? I have made no insinuations of adding a F2P or P2W game mechanic. I have simply stated it would be neat to have a cash shop and what else they might add to it. The thought of adding additional items such as ingame currency and such was an idea to play around with. Take it as you will. Just remember, assuming makes an ass of u and me.

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

I don't even know where to start with the above history lesson you are trying to give me. Where there are some points to your argument, there also seems to be some points missing from the same timeline and overall business you are trying to defend. I won't go into detail here as it would be too long of a response. Just know that FFxi is not the first to do A LOT of what it has here.

As for me walking a fine line... Is that not what we are suppose to do when asking questions? I have made no insinuations of adding a F2P or P2W game mechanic. I have simply stated it would be neat to have a cash shop and what else they might add to it. The thought of adding additional items such as ingame currency and such was an idea to play around with. Take it as you will. Just remember, assuming makes an ass of u and me.

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Just know that FFxi is not the first to do A LOT of what it has here.

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No FFXI wasn't the first, but it is the longest running single game in the true RPG style, which is mainstream and popular. Other RPG games have had games-series spanning decades, but not a single game running this long and being mainstream / popular.

FFXI was not the first, the first was D&d tabletop pens paper dice games in the 1970s. They had statistics and jobs etc. which FFXI borrowed heavily from. I played Dungeon Master for the first time in 1980, for a tabletop roleplaying group. Four of our original D&d group from 1980 are still playing tabletop roleplaying, and I still sit as Dungeon Master for them, after 34 years. One of the things about sitting as DM is that you learn to respect Rules, Balance, Fair Play, and trying to keep the game atmospheric and playable for a long time. These things are ingrained into me and are the reason why talk of a FFXI gear shop fills me with dread.

I did not allow our roleplaying group to treat me like a Cash Shop, and pay me $10 when they wanted to level up or obtain a powerful weapon. If I had tried to do this, the people buying stuff would have got bored quickly, and the rest of the group would have quit the group in disgust, and probably punched me on the way out of the door too. But because progress was orderly and fair and effort/skill based, our RPG group still plays after all this time, and we have great fun doing so.

Square Enix is the Dungeon Master for the FFXI roleplaying game, they are expected to uphold rules and fairness and maintain an atmospheric and exciting journey, just like Dungeon Masters have done since the 1970s.

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I don't even know where to start with the above history lesson you are trying to give me

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I wasn't giving you a history lesson. I was replying to your post, by citing examples to show how "cash shops" are very new and have no "track record." We can list many popular and successful games of the last 30+ years which existed without cash shops and where players had to play the game long time to make progress. Those games were successful and popular for decades, and we can show this historically.

Cash shop games are fairly new and have very little track record. We cannot say what the long-term effects of cash shops will be in those games. We can however say that people are still re-playing old games from the 1980s and 1990s, games which were successful and popular without a cash shop, and may well have been dead and buried long time ago if they'd had a cash shop.

:cool:

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Originally Posted by Stompa

No FFXI wasn't the first, but it is the longest running single game in the true RPG style, which is mainstream and popular. Other RPG games have had games-series spanning decades, but not a single game running this long and being mainstream / popular.

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Hate to pop your bubble... Oh what am I say, I love popping your bubble. You might want to look at this link. http://www.gamingclimax.com/mmorpg-a...d-the-longest/

You might want to reconsider your train of thought. To think that FFxi is the longest running RPG style, which is mainstream and popular, is almost delusional.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

FFXI was not the first, the first was D&d tabletop pens paper dice games in the 1970s. They had statistics and jobs etc. which FFXI borrowed heavily from. I played Dungeon Master for the first time in 1980, for a tabletop roleplaying group. Four of our original D&d group from 1980 are still playing tabletop roleplaying, and I still sit as Dungeon Master for them, after 34 years. One of the things about sitting as DM is that you learn to respect Rules, Balance, Fair Play, and trying to keep the game atmospheric and playable for a long time. These things are ingrained into me and are the reason why talk of a FFXI gear shop fills me with dread.

I did not allow our roleplaying group to treat me like a Cash Shop, and pay me $10 when they wanted to level up or obtain a powerful weapon. If I had tried to do this, the people buying stuff would have got bored quickly, and the rest of the group would have quit the group in disgust, and probably punched me on the way out of the door too. But because progress was orderly and fair and effort/skill based, our RPG group still plays after all this time, and we have great fun doing so.

Square Enix is the Dungeon Master for the FFXI roleplaying game, they are expected to uphold rules and fairness and maintain an atmospheric and exciting journey, just like Dungeon Masters have done since the 1970s.

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There you go again with the history lesson. Relating DnD to FFxi is like relating DnD to every known RPG in existence. Obviously DnD of old did not have a cash shop... you're comparing apples to oranges. If you want to play DnD so much, stop with FFxi and go jump on DnD 5.0, which sucks more balls than anything else out there.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I wasn't giving you a history lesson. I was replying to your post, by citing examples to show how "cash shops" are very new and have no "track record." We can list many popular and successful games of the last 30+ years which existed without cash shops and where players had to play the game long time to make progress. Those games were successful and popular for decades, and we can show this historically.

Cash shop games are fairly new and have very little track record. We cannot say what the long-term effects of cash shops will be in those games. We can however say that people are still re-playing old games from the 1980s and 1990s, games which were successful and popular without a cash shop, and may well have been dead and buried long time ago if they'd had a cash shop.

:cool:

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You can call it what you will, history lesson or citing old concepts and business models, you are still referring to something that is in the past.

Obviously cash shops are new. They have only been around for the last 4 years or so. With the mobile/social markets thriving at the moment, companies are finding ways to give consumers products they enjoy. Even MMOs, which are social by nature, are looking into adding shops with similar products.

Yes, some are pay-to-win type games and they have their own nitch. But as I have stated before, I did not say they should add any of those types of products to the catalog.

And lastly, DAMN Stompa... you old... Good to see old retired people still play MMOs.

http://rs1img.memecdn.com/Cool-story-bro_o_94023.webp

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Good example of this was when the mini-stories were released. SE made those add-ons purely independent of the main game. Yes, you can use the items they give you, but you didn't have to buy them at all. And infact, there was an up roar about those being looked at in the same light. "Why should I have to pay for more of something to keep up with the next person when I already pay you 12.99/month..." This is just the way SE has done business for years... It's nothing new.

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I dont know why you take this as an example, paying 12,99 for an add-on isnt exactly the same as buying a mount (I dont know what it costs but i thought it was around the rediculous price of 24 in the ffxiv cashshop) the add-ons when they were released for lvl75 content did give you a nice bit of missioning to do. You werent getting the reward if you didnt complete the storyline.

Personally the bottomline for me is that we pay for a product and we expect everything is in that product, I dont want SE to throw extras out there in a cashshop while we already pay quite a bit for an 11 years old game knowing its not going to go back into xi. Its like milking an old cow.

PS. Calling people retarded on here is really low, your point would sound alot more valid if you could discuss in a civilized manner.

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Originally Posted by vienne

I dont know why you take this as an example, paying 12,99 for an add-on isnt exactly the same as buying a mount (I dont know what it costs but i thought it was around the rediculous price of 24 in the ffxiv cashshop) the add-ons when they were released for lvl75 content did give you a nice bit of missioning to do. You werent getting the reward if you didnt complete the storyline.

Personally the bottomline for me is that we pay for a product and we expect everything is in that product, I dont want SE to throw extras out there in a cashshop while we already pay quite a bit for an 11 years old game knowing its not going to go back into xi. Its like milking an old cow.

PS. Calling people retarded on here is really low, your point would sound alot more valid if you could discuss in a civilized manner.

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Why wouldn't it be an excellent example. It was around the same time they were testing out cash shop mechanics anyways.

I remember buying the addons and completing the content in three days, one day for each addon. There was no challenge, there was no special twist to the world, other than Shantoto, and the items awarded were Huge when gained. Which forces the need to buy the addons. Otherwise you'd feel left out and behind for not having the BiS piece.

So yeah, I think the addons are a great example for this discussion as they were an attempt at what is currently on topic.

PS.
http://rs1img.memecdn.com/no-dark-sa..._c_3376349.jpg

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Why wouldn't it be an excellent example. It was around the same time they were testing out cash shop mechanics anyways.

I remember buying the addons and completing the content in three days, one day for each addon. There was no challenge, there was no special twist to the world, other than Shantoto, and the items awarded were Huge when gained. Which forces the need to buy the addons. Otherwise you'd feel left out and behind for not having the BiS piece.

So yeah, I think the addons are a great example for this discussion as they were an attempt at what is currently on topic.

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the addons included new storylines, challenges, and a reward that actually required playing the game to get. This wasnt as grand as a full expansion pack, but was an addition to the game in a meaningful way.

MMOs these days would rather take the gear from these expacs, strip the stats from them, and sell them for $10 a piece. These MMOs can also !$%# right off.

You are clearly a terrible person though, so I'm not sure why I'm responding.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

You are clearly a terrible person though, so I'm not sure why I'm responding.

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Clearly. :D

I'd be more worried about yourself than what you thought of me. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Clearly. :D

I'd be more worried about yourself than what you thought of me. :cool:

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me? I'm fine

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Originally Posted by Zephrose

Hate to pop your bubble... Oh what am I say, I love popping your bubble. You might want to look at this link. http://www.gamingclimax.com/mmorpg-a...d-the-longest/

You might want to reconsider your train of thought. To think that FFxi is the longest running RPG style, which is mainstream and popular, is almost delusional.

There you go again with the history lesson. Relating DnD to FFxi is like relating DnD to every known RPG in existence. Obviously DnD of old did not have a cash shop... you're comparing apples to oranges. If you want to play DnD so much, stop with FFxi and go jump on DnD 5.0, which sucks more balls than anything else out there.

You can call it what you will, history lesson or citing old concepts and business models, you are still referring to something that is in the past.

Obviously cash shops are new. They have only been around for the last 4 years or so. With the mobile/social markets thriving at the moment, companies are finding ways to give consumers products they enjoy. Even MMOs, which are social by nature, are looking into adding shops with similar products.

Yes, some are pay-to-win type games and they have their own nitch. But as I have stated before, I did not say they should add any of those types of products to the catalog.

And lastly, DAMN Stompa... you old... Good to see old retired people still play MMOs.

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D&d was the first. FFXI has very similar attribute system to D&d, also To-Hit etc., also Rogue/Thief and Knight/Paladin etc. all bear striking similarity to D&d. Obviously not the same, but you can see the direct influence from one system to the other.

Most D&d computer games suck. I liked Baldur's Gate series a lot, but that was about it.

My tabletop group plays a doctored version of the core AD&D rulebooks, we don't play the new systems from 1990 onwards. We like the original core game. I write my own Hero Modules for my RPG group to play. They are playing their advanced characters that they've played for over thirty years, which makes storylines very complex. One of the player characters has been hunted by the same NPC villain since 1981 lol.

I build modules which are thousands of pages long, for my friends to adventure through. We are currenly playing a very enjoyable module about a collapsing monarchy, it is high level battles and emotional NPCs. Full of intrigue and courtly drama, lol.

Please don't post links to websites to somehow make your points. Please pick out specific points from those sites and quote them in context. FFXI is the longest running online RPG, in the true RPG style. The term "role playing game" here meaning the player can add more personality to their character than just name/race/gear.

RPGs have storyline, customisable character traits, and the opportunity to express your character's personality in the interactive roleplaying world. Most games are too linear and restrictive to allow a player to use their imagination and play a fully-formed character.

WOW etc. are more in the "fighting fantasy arcade game" genre than in the "roleplaying game" genre.

FFXI by contrast, a person is (for example) crafting stacks of cloth or more complex weaving products, to place on the market, so that customers will have their produce, and doing so dressed in their Weavers Apron which denotes that they are part of the union, working in their moghouse which has spinning wheels and fine raiments and other clothcrafter furnishings.

This person is roleplaying a clothworker, and this person has a list of customers in the world who will send them messages when they require some fine cloth products. They might play a Thief who has a quiet and observant personality, so doesn't talk much in events or on LS. Their character has a dark past, and prefers to stay silent most of the time and observe the actions of others. They feel more comfortable working the loom and handling cloth. This is roleplaying a detailed character, and it is possible in FFXI.

If you are going to reply to this, please refrain from personal insults about my age or anything else.

That website is garbage lol. GUNZ more successful than FFXI? He must be delusional and you too.