Job points = another form of merit points?

You wouldn't be able to use the attachment needed to use the net on a slim. It would have to been a fat ps2.

Lithera,

As far as I understand, the “adaptor” would be unnecessary for the slim version which has the ethernet port, but regardless, I wouldn't have a hard-drive either, and I was thinking back to the times of the larger versions of the console indeed.

That stuff just didn't happen here (much).

It could technically be made to use an USB hard drive for data storage, but the PS2 only has USB 1.1 so it would be *pretty* slow.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

As far as I understand, the “adaptor” would be unnecessary for the slim version which has the ethernet port

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The adapter for the fat PS2 served two functions: ethernet/modem, and IDE connections for the hard drive.

Why do I keep seeing "limited camps" mentioned? There are 9 different zones in adoulin, not including cavern areas that people can exp in, 9. Whitegate had 2, maybe 3 decent merit camps at 75. The only limit here is how far you're willing to travel, and with everywhere linked by waypoint I don't think that will even be an issue.

Maybe we can also accumulate these "Job points" by participating in Campaign seeing that they're updating it.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

Why do I keep seeing "limited camps" mentioned? There are 9 different zones in adoulin, not including cavern areas that people can exp in, 9. Whitegate had 2, maybe 3 decent merit camps at 75. The only limit here is how far you're willing to travel, and with everywhere linked by waypoint I don't think that will even be an issue.

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Why were there only 3 decent camps in ToAu. Same reason there will be only a couple of decent camps in SoA. What made the bird camp the best camp was number of mobs, how fast they spawn and how little they did. You only went to the other camps when the bird camp was taken and only went to trolls when you had no other choice. So far I haven't seen one camp that is anywhere near as good as bird camp and only a hand full that came any where close to Mamool Ja staging point. Then toss in all the people running around with trust NPCs and camps get even tighter.

Another thing I seen a couple time is people think that book burns will be viable for JPs, they won't be since the JPs will only be coming from the mobs. Knowing SE the amount of JP a mob gives will be tied to how much exp they give and there is a very high chance they won't be 1:1 so that limits camps even more. Any way you try to slice it there are not enough camps.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Why were there only 3 decent camps in ToAu. Same reason there will be only a couple of decent camps in SoA. What made the bird camp the best camp was number of mobs, how fast they spawn and how little they did. You only went to the other camps when the bird camp was taken and only went to trolls when you had no other choice. So far I haven't seen one camp that is anywhere near as good as bird camp and only a hand full that came any where close to Mamool Ja staging point. Then toss in all the people running around with trust NPCs and camps get even tighter.

Another thing I seen a couple time is people think that book burns will be viable for JPs, they won't be since the JPs will only be coming from the mobs. Knowing SE the amount of JP a mob gives will be tied to how much exp they give and there is a very high chance they won't be 1:1 so that limits camps even more. Any way you try to slice it there are not enough camps.

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All this. Sure SoA zones are full of mobs...mostly mobs no one in their right mind would want to fight if they wanted a good return on the effort expended.

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Originally Posted by Aldersyde

All this. Sure SoA zones are full of mobs...mostly mobs no one in their right mind would want to fight if they wanted a good return on the effort expended.

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Yup, that has been the key all along when it comes to "no camps". It is more that some players don't want to fight mobs that make them have to pay attention to what they are doing. They want mobs with low defense, low offense, and relatively safe tp moves

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Originally Posted by Xantavia

Yup, that has been the key all along when it comes to "no camps". It is more that some players don't want to fight mobs that make them have to pay attention to what they are doing. They want mobs with low defense, low offense, and relatively safe tp moves

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It's more then that, what they want is speed and to make the most of their play time, mobs that are harder are slower to kill. More so the brds and healers that are whoring out those jobs to gear their DDs are going to want speed far more then the DDs just wanting to get something. Back at 75 I could find DDs even good DDs all day that would be more then willing to go kill trolls just to make some progress but getting that rdm or brd to go was not going to happen unless they owed you a favor. So when you say some players what you really should say is most support classes and when the people that are class whoring are done they won't be taking one for the team and getting on those jobs to help they will be seeking on their DDs to cap them out.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

It's more then that, what they want is speed and to make the most of their play time, mobs that are harder are slower to kill. More so the brds and healers that are whoring out those jobs to gear their DDs are going to want speed far more then the DDs just wanting to get something. Back at 75 I could find DDs even good DDs all day that would be more then willing to go kill trolls just to make some progress but getting that rdm or brd to go was not going to happen unless they owed you a favor. So when you say some players what you really should say is most support classes and when the people that are class whoring are done they won't be taking one for the team and getting on those jobs to help they will be seeking on their DDs to cap them out.

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camps are limited for sure, but this time its a bit different. If I didnt misunderstand this, you actually need to be on that job to accumalte JP for it. So yeah whoreing out your Melee Jobs with BRD doesnt work. But that doesnt matter since any 6 man pt will overkill any camp way faster then it ever was done in ToAU era (assuming the melees dont suck).

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Originally Posted by Damane

camps are limited for sure, but this time its a bit different. If I didnt misunderstand this, you actually need to be on that job to accumalte JP for it. So yeah whoreing out your Melee Jobs with BRD doesnt work. But that doesnt matter since any 6 man pt will overkill any camp way faster then it ever was done in ToAU era (assuming the melees dont suck).

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I agree with this. The biggest thing isn't even nasty mobs, they'll die quickly just the same. It's a matter of mob respawn and density. There's obviously nothing like that in non-Adoulin areas and not too many in Adoulin. A strong DD with a healer can already lay waste to almost any camp in Adoulin. What will a PT of 3 strong DDs with BRD and COR buffs do?

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Originally Posted by detlef

I agree with this. The biggest thing isn't even nasty mobs, they'll die quickly just the same. It's a matter of mob respawn and density. There's obviously nothing like that in non-Adoulin areas and not too many in Adoulin. A strong DD with a healer can already lay waste to almost any camp in Adoulin. What will a PT of 3 strong DDs with BRD and COR buffs do?

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Not get any exp, or rather, far less than a soloist with trust out.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Feary,

Assuming you're asking me, or everyone in general, I do not. They actually never released FFXI for the PS2 around here, and even if they did, I'm not sure if the on-line services are available (I don't remember any friends even who would have their PS2 connected to the internet).
I had to check if my slim and silver PS2 even has a port for its NIC, as I never paid any attention to the thought of having it connected to anything. Didn't go as far as to plug anything into it, however. :E

Had I the option, I would at most use the PS2 for 'dual-boxing'. I can not imagine myself full-timing it.


Furthermore, if from that you're going for 'why not get access to Adōulin then', well, I just don't see anything attractive enough for me around there. I may consider getting it when/if the story is more finished, or if they reduce the monthly fee (or/when there is a cheap-o release of it).

Maybe.

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PS2 doesn't use any specialized online service, it directly connects. Each game had its own independent servers back then, there was no central hub. It was like your PC, hook it up to the connection and configure the networking settings to attach to your network, then online works. FFXI servers are still up, which is all this game requires.

The nice thing about Abyssea was that it gave a chance for healers/supports/tanks to play half-assed and still get EXP just like everybody else.

Seriously, tanking colibri and imps felt like a job.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

The nice thing about Abyssea was that it gave a chance for healers/supports/tanks to play half-assed and still get EXP just like everybody else.

Seriously, tanking colibri and imps felt like a job.

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What lolol. Why would you bother taking a tank to either of those unless you meant level 60 parties and even then just TP burning them was just as good as having a tank trying to hold hate.

Greetings,

I'd like to address some of the concerns we’ve been coming across when it comes to job points.

• Will there be enough monsters to farm?
  In the March version update we will be increasing the levels of monsters located in Dho Gates and Woh Gates. Additionally we will be making adjustments to the below dungeons for 6-person parties, and also making it so there is not much of a difference in the amount of capacity points that can be earned while in a party or solo.
  • Sih Gates
  • Moh Gates
  • Cirdas Caverns
  • Dho Gates
  • Woh Gates
  With these adjustments, we'd like solo players to focus on field areas and parties to focus on dungeons.
  *The uragnites and other monsters in Ceizak Battlegrounds already have the same party modifications as above.
  
  
• Will future content be built around job points?
  For the time being our plan is to not balance the game based on job point enhancements.
  
  In the future when job point enhancements become the norm there is a possibility that content is designed based on them, but it would first be content for hardcore players that spent time enhancing.

A bit disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Additionally we will be making adjustments to the below dungeons for 6-person parties, and also making it so there is not much of a difference in the amount of capacity points that can be earned while in a party or solo.

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How? Right now there's really nowhere a group can go to approach the exp/hr a well-geared soloist with trust can, except for, yannow, Abyssea.

What ever, another failed idea on SE part. If they can't see how much of a bad idea this is then you know what I don't get paid to point it out to them.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

How? Right now there's really nowhere a group can go to approach the exp/hr a well-geared soloist with trust can, except for, yannow, Abyssea.

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It sounds like they will not have a penalty on capacity points for being in a party to me, so that dungeons will be desirable to fight in a party, especially with the nasty mobs in Rakaznar.

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Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

It sounds like they will not have a penalty on capacity points for being in a party to me, so that dungeons will be desirable to fight in a party, especially with the nasty mobs in Rakaznar.

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There is little reason to bother grouping up if it's the same as solo so why go out your way to a dungeon and we have already been over the reason the nasty mobs in Rak will be avoided.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

There is little reason to bother grouping up if it's the same as solo so why go out your way to a dungeon and we have already been over the reason the nasty mobs in Rak will be avoided.

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4 real people can kill faster than one person with 3 trusts.

I'm truly curious if most of you are just talking out your ass or if you've actually formed a functional 6 man Exp party and tried it in Adoulin areas.

I'm going to go with the ass talk, and the fact you have no idea how much JP will be earned solo or in a party. Excuse me for putting in bluntly.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I'm truly curious if most of you are just talking out your ass or if you've actually formed a functional 6 man Exp party and tried it in Adoulin areas.

I'm going to go with the ass talk, and the fact you have no idea how much JP will be earned solo or in a party. Excuse me for putting in bluntly.

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It's simply going to be a repeat of ToAU merit parties with the few healers and brd getting insta invites and tons of DDs seeking only this time around you will have those DDs with their own little pocket party to come into your camp and kill your exp. Well not really a repeat once those brds and healers are done they won't be coming back on those jobs to get points for their DDs. And SE just said there will not be much difference between 6 man or solo. For group play to be better then solo with npcs the difference needs to be huge to make up for the time it'll take to get a support and a healer plus travel time(no waypoints other then skirmish or zone in from the closest field waypoint and revies to deal with) to the few decent camps that may or may not be open.

Maybe they will surprise me but I don't have high hopes for this bunch. They have great ideas but they are either listening to much to the players or not enough and bouncing back and forth. This whole JP thing reeks of the grind some of the more vocal people have been begging for so I don't expect a high rate of CP.

I think what Camate means is that the penalty for EXP per monster won't exist for parties in those areas, so you might as well team up and increase your kill speed, even if it's lowman, like a duo or trio.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

It's simply going to be a repeat of ToAU merit parties with the few healers and brd getting insta invites and tons of DDs seeking only this time around you will have those DDs with their own little pocket party to come into your camp and kill your exp. Well not really a repeat once those brds and healers are done they won't be coming back on those jobs to get points for their DDs. And SE just said there will not be much difference between 6 man or solo. For group play to be better then solo with npcs the difference needs to be huge to make up for the time it'll take to get a support and a healer plus travel time(no waypoints other then skirmish or zone in from the closest field waypoint and revies to deal with) to the few decent camps that may or may not be open.

Maybe they will surprise me but I don't have high hopes for this bunch. They have great ideas but they are either listening to much to the players or not enough and bouncing back and forth. This whole JP thing reeks of the grind some of the more vocal people have been begging for so I don't expect a high rate of CP.

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Not saying this rudely, but I think you'll probably be wrong here. Unlike ToAU Areas, these new zones have several spots of monsters, and most of them are the same pockets of 2-3 mob types. Unlike ToAU areas, there won't be just one "Colibri camp", or one "Mamool" camp, theres several dozen and more potential camps, and theres just going to be more once they update the mobs as they planned out. These new zones are big, and all the enemies there are within the same general level ranges, and very few variances in monster density between them.

Anyone whos afraid of a ToAU style lockout and camp-fighting is just not thinking clearly. I can walk through any given Adoulin zone mentioned in the update notes and even places like Morimar or Foret and point out several potential exp spots.

Simply put, theres just not the limited exp areas like there were in the ToAU days.

Now exp parties? Some people are probably going to follow the same general principle of exp party set ups, and some people will certainly go the 3DD,BRD,COR,healer approach, its just logical and fast. But they're going out of their way with this system (and trusts) to make it to where exp parties are not the only solution. So you have options and its not like 2007 where all you can do while LFG is rot afk in whitegate. Its a new age in FFXI history and just cause people cant AFKleech in Abyssea doesn't mean we'll be back to afking in jeuno with our thumbs up our butts hoping theres a BRD lfg or the Colibri camp is open.

Edit: As far as rate of CP/JP go, theres a chance it'll be grindy, but like the poster above said, theres a better than good chance what they mean is Solo or party JP/Cp will be very close to about equal. Not that soloing is getting some buff up.

I have zero faith in SE and negative faith in the player base as a whole. There are just too few camps to support reg parties and trust parties. If the dungeons mobs are to annoying then exp parties will avoid them(only reason imps were a target is they had def less then wet paper bags crammed full of exp), and people will want to fight over the couple of good ones, if they are nice and juicy exp targets trust parties will be competing for them as well. While not getting the same per hour as a reg party they will no doubt ruin a camp for a reg party just like one drg, pup, blu could do back at 75 in the other decent camps besides bird. Then a course no one will want to move and try to push each other out.n

One thing that could help with it would be if you could gain CP points on any job and so that it removes some of the DDs from the field and if that is the case great but I won't get my hopes up. The other solution would be for SE to go head and allow you to invite other players into trust parties that way at least some what solving the brd problem. About the only thing going for this right now is the low server populations, and if they server merge like many have been asking for then this becomes a real cluster.

I think the target enemy isn't going to be as important as it was back then. Lets face it, we're significantly stronger. I can easily solo a Tough mob, even without trusts, back then unless you were a ridiculously good solo job, you weren't making quick work of anything above EP, even then some jobs could get rolled by EP, or at least end up red HP... The reason mobs were so pick and chose back then was because we were much weaker, and the easier targets made things... well, easier.

While some people will find easy camps, the idea that there will only be a few select squishy camps is again, just completely outdated. So long as the mob has no ridiculously tedious and annoying TP moves, any mobs is game these days. I think the only mobs who you'll want to avoid are probably the new Rams, Acuex, and Umbril... None of the other new enemies or enemy remakes have really devestating TP moves or something that makes them Exp unfriendly.

I mean, go out there, just take an hour or two and walk through all these new zones. They're big, and plentiful in the mob department. There will be no shortage of camps, and with the ability to warp to so many different areas, the chances of everything being taken are very slim. I mean, theres going to be congestion in some areas, because some people will fall back on easy prey, but its not a party-stopping thing nowadays that the squishy mob camp isn't open.

Again, not to pry rudely, but i think you're still very much blinded by 2007 era merit parties to see that the game just doesn't function quite like that anymore. Some mobs will be more desirable, some less, but I don't think any of them will truly be completely off limits, and if you can't find anyone who wants to exp with you on a camp that isn't on their approved list of mobs, then you always have the option to resort to soloing with trusts, which will be an acceptable alternative.

So if you get to a camp and theres people there, instead of believing its the only possible camp available and ruining all the exps, find a new camp. If someone comes to step on your toes, drive to their house and beat them in the face with a shovel.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

It's simply going to be a repeat of ToAU merit parties with the few healers and brd getting insta invites and tons of DDs seeking only this time around you will have those DDs with their own little pocket party to come into your camp and kill your exp. Well not really a repeat once those brds and healers are done they won't be coming back on those jobs to get points for their DDs. And SE just said there will not be much difference between 6 man or solo. For group play to be better then solo with npcs the difference needs to be huge to make up for the time it'll take to get a support and a healer plus travel time(no waypoints other then skirmish or zone in from the closest field waypoint and revies to deal with) to the few decent camps that may or may not be open.

Maybe they will surprise me but I don't have high hopes for this bunch. They have great ideas but they are either listening to much to the players or not enough and bouncing back and forth. This whole JP thing reeks of the grind some of the more vocal people have been begging for so I don't expect a high rate of CP.

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You seem to be illiterate or retarded, I'll leave it to you do decide which since I don't really know you.

They're saying there wont be a large gap in EXP gained per monster when in a PT vs solo. Kill rate in a PT will far surpass kill rate solo, regardless if its job composition. Even 6 WHM/NINs will kill significantly faster than 1 WHM/NIN.

Kill rate is significantly faster with more people, yet exp per mob is significantly less, and so without an extremely populous camp, you will obtain far less exp, in time spent travelling/waiting for repops. With an endless flow of appropriately levelled monsters, a group will beat a single player using trust. But there simply is no location that exists like that at the moment.

If Camate really meant that some monsters give bonus exp for people in groups (enough to nullify the negatives of grouping), that could be a solution, but that's why I asked, I saw nothing to suggest that would be the case.

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Originally Posted by Genoxd

You seem to be illiterate or retarded, I'll leave it to you do decide which since I don't really know you.

They're saying there wont be a large gap in EXP gained per monster when in a PT vs solo. Kill rate in a PT will far surpass kill rate solo, regardless if its job composition. Even 6 WHM/NINs will kill significantly faster than 1 WHM/NIN.

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Or you know everyone and their brother bring out their trust NPCs so instead of 6 real people making one party you now have 6 parties those people can make with npcs that is were the real problem will be had. Right now it might not look like a problem cause of the low pop but what happens when the servers merge and we go back up to active numbers in the thousands. Again people have been begging for that and will come to past sooner or later.

you dont need a bard or a whm for hardcore SoA merit grinding, cookie cutter backline meripo jobs arent needed.

a 4 person party such as mnk dnc sch sam can roam through Woh gates and continuously annihilate everything. A rdm that is semi competent can also replace a sch as your only needed mage job.

Setups can be flexible and still highly effective but too many ffxi sheep only know 1 way to make parties for things.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

I'd like to address some of the concerns we’ve been coming across when it comes to job points.

• Will there be enough monsters to farm?
  In the March version update we will be increasing the levels of monsters located in Dho Gates and Woh Gates. Additionally we will be making adjustments to the below dungeons for 6-person parties, and also making it so there is not much of a difference in the amount of capacity points that can be earned while in a party or solo.
  • Sih Gates
  • Moh Gates
  • Cirdas Caverns
  • Dho Gates
  • Woh Gates
  With these adjustments, we'd like solo players to focus on field areas and parties to focus on dungeons.
  *The uragnites and other monsters in Ceizak Battlegrounds already have the same party modifications as above.
  
  
• Will future content be built around job points?
  For the time being our plan is to not balance the game based on job point enhancements.
  
  In the future when job point enhancements become the norm there is a possibility that content is designed based on them, but it would first be content for hardcore players that spent time enhancing.

---

Mark my words, making the target areas for players to go being caves is a terrible idea. I have had a ton of people I have known complain about how they hate that caves are the best place to level outside of Abyssea till you get to Abyssea itself, spending hours upon hours looking at the bland walls of Gusgen or Crawler's Nest. By doing this with these points you are not only forcing people out of Abyssea, but making the caves the most desirable of locations, which also cuts down out options of locations it would seem and in the end only serves to create congestion in more ways than one. Also, you are making this system nearly exclusive to Adoulin, I admit I have no great love for those who refuse to buy the expansion, I find it foolish in many ways, but admittedly anyone without the expansion will be flat out screwed with this as their only option will be to slowly get points by killing worms and turtles in Gustav for instance.

The best way to do this is simply make all areas count the same, remove the party XP reduction in it's entirety, increase respawn rates to something like 3 minutes rather than 5(or simply an Abyssea like system for repop speeds) in all areas with monsters who will be able to reward us with these capacity points. Lastly, do not restrict these points from events in any way, let us get them how we please in events such as Skirmish. I can not stress how important the last point is to me as I can tell you right now, were it not for the XP I get from Ra'Kaznar Skirmish, I wouldn't do the event, I hardly get any reward from that content and could go off on a tangent on how I want it to be changed but in the end my point comes down to the fact that for now it's a 2 birds with 1 stone kinda deal, I get merits for AAs and such while I do the content, in the end it's slower than farming XP outright but it serves a purpose is my point. If capacity points are the same then it incentivises doing more content rather than doing less content like this for the sake of specifically getting these points, and if people have to go out of their way to farm these points I can assure you many people including myself will find this very, very boring.

You're living in dreamland if you think 6man parties are coming back. Your world, and mine, is MIRED with terrorists waiting to destroy parties with I can't heal too fast, my first wep is a dagger, I didn't buy that spell nonsense. Good luck wit dat. But, I like the idea of making one job UBER for solo reasons.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Stuff

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Completely agreed. Being confined to caves in order to get decent exp is a terrible idea. Running through them or doing quests in them is fine, but spending hours upon hours in them is extremely boring and also doesn't do justice to the usually much prettier outdoors areas your developers make. Give pretty areas more screentime than ugly areas, please.

Cave areas also rarely have background music, while outdoor areas often have wonderful music. Maybe I'm just one of the rare players that doesn't get tired of the BGM and want to turn it off to put something else on...

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Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

Cave areas also rarely have background music, while outdoor areas often have wonderful music. Maybe I'm just one of the rare players that doesn't get tired of the BGM and want to turn it off to put something else on...

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I am sort of in between these in all honesty, but only because I mute the FFXI music so I can have my Kingdom Hearts 1/2/so on, FFX/-2/XI/XII/XIII-/-2/-3 Soundtracks play instead. :P

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

Kill rate is significantly faster with more people, yet exp per mob is significantly less, and so without an extremely populous camp, you will obtain far less exp, in time spent travelling/waiting for repops. With an endless flow of appropriately levelled monsters, a group will beat a single player using trust. But there simply is no location that exists like that at the moment.

If Camate really meant that some monsters give bonus exp for people in groups (enough to nullify the negatives of grouping), that could be a solution, but that's why I asked, I saw nothing to suggest that would be the case.

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relax, considering the generally "meh" quality of the existing job points why would anyone be in any hurry to get them anyway? wait until they have decent categories down the road and just accumulate them for now, that can be done while you are doing all your normal day-to-day grind stuff. instead of having to remove and retask them again in a month when we get the next set of options. Same thing I'm doing on JSE rem chapters, just accumulating them for now until I see what's there in the AF3 upgrades. I have 12 99s, trying to 119 every one of them on 3 sets would just be insane, so I'll wait to see my best options. Kinda angry I did full bard AF to 109 and body to 119 already because of just that.