On Red Mage melee...

It's an option, yeah. Could also just pop one, then any spell cast in a 10s window could have the appropriate buff. Obviously if you're munching through fodder mobs, you probably won't need to use it every single fight, of which point extending your buff durations for everyone might be more beneficial. I just look at is as something to offer spice without simply being about MOAR DAMAGE.

With daggers mentioned... We've been left out of that equasion with new gear released.... Red Mage is equally skilled in dagger but have been forgotten when trial weapons were introduced.

I have no interest for more melee skill on my RDM. I'd like to see more usefulness for Enfeebling Magic before melee skill. I find meleeing dull. While others may like to see this, this kind of enhancement would do nothing for my personal game play style.

playing since May 2005, RDM was my 1st Job & my 1st love in this game. I melee'd in every party from dunes to 75 (before composure & enspell2's) I had several repeat invites to PT's & many compliments on my ability to keep up the enhancing/enfeebling, all while scoring decent dmg (using enspells to exploit mob weakness & capitalize on weather/day is key). and yes there were those ppl that would endlessly complain & complain, but I chose to perform as front line RDM & did a damn fine job at it. (& composure makes this even easier)
So I say all the power to any RDM that wants to do so, as long as they can multitask. Some ppl just have a hard time multitasking up there, but I actually found it easier to dispel when I was up close.
The only time I backlined RDM was on Anticans & Imps, silencega is the worst.
Currently my RDM is 90 full merits & good gear, & I always look for opportunity to get in there & swing.
in closing, some of the best RDMs I've seen are those who embraced their Melee skills, not just the Mage skills.

It really wont help much outside abysea... But even with a crappy garudas dagger i was able to drop well over 1k aelion edges on RDM with standard nuking atmas.

If you ever are using Aeolian Edge, use a Martial Knife. Nothing else even comes remotely close.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Genralzod

So I say all the power to any RDM that wants to do so, as long as they can multitask. Some ppl just have a hard time multitasking up there, but I actually found it easier to dispel when I was up close.
The only time I backlined RDM was on Anticans & Imps, silencega is the worst.

---

Multitasking is fine, but there's only so much that can be done once you start to focus on the front line (specially if you're crazy like me and used Flat Blade to interrupt casts or TP moves). I'm perfectly fine with landing the occassional cure. I'd help deal with status effects if I could baseline (I go /DNC because Healing Waltz is a wonderful thing to have because of silences and other nasty effects that need to come off ASAP). That's totally different from having to run a buff cycle while front-lining.

That's kind of why I had that idea about splitting roles. You melee and enfeeble with occassional cures while in the front, and heal/buff while in the back.

I think that if we are masters of fencing, then we should be able to dual wield. If red mage had dual wield besides going /nin or /dnc, we could choose other subjobs that could enable us to WS selection.

It would also be cool if RDM had a way of casting -aga version of buffs, in a way similar to sch, then we could be front of the line, and still buff and enfeeble. Boom, I've solve the problem on how to fix RDM.

I have a Khanda+2 OA2-4, and i am working on another at the moment. Outside of Abyssea when i am in yellow hp, i equip the fencers earring [ latent effect: +5 enspell dmg under 100tp] and get atleast +100 additional damage on top of my initial attack as RDM/DNC. When i have too i'll have the potential of doing +200Add.dmg, on top of an initial, lets say, 200-400 dmg for a total of ~600 dmg. No atma, and depending on the mob.

I think Red Mage should get gear that adds damage to en spell, similar to how the fencer earring works, except without the latent effect. Would even be cool to get a trial weapon that added +25Add.dmg to your enspell.

That's the Fencing Ring that adds +5 enspell damage.

Also, just to stop you before you get any further...The Khanda +2 is rare, you can only have 1.
While your idea does sound nice and all are you really losing that much damage comparatively by replacing one of your weapons with a dagger and actually getting a good weapons skill?

Now if we happened to get an elemental sword WS natively that would be a whole different story on the other hand.

Just sub nin like a good boy and dual wield the new and old anhancing swords.

Wow, stupid fingers tonight. >.<

I Disagree with allowing us to dual wield, we are a jack of all trades, if they give us every thing we need then we would just be a melee job that casts spells :P. Yes, it would allow us other sub job options, but honestly i feel needing the sub job to allow us additional melee support is something that should be. However our own lack of melee support is the issue. We should have a little bit of everything. the issue is most of our abilities are only for magic purposes. Hence why i believe we should get unique melee boosts, our own set of JA/JTs that take advantage of what rdm melee already has going for it.

After looking through Update History. I noticed that rdm had its skill rank in its weapons increased at curtain times as well as curtain skills removed (Marksmanship) assuming these increases were a full rank it seen one dagger skill increase and 2 sword skill increases making it C dagger and D Sword Initially, This explains the lack of Weapon Skills for sword, Due to most initial jobs having the WSes it is missing had B- or higher. It should be noted that only 2 jobs currently do not fit that criteria now, rdm and cor. Its possible SE missed this when increasing skill levels. As they slowly worked there way to making rdm the sword wielder it is now. Its most notable that SE originaly intended them to be a dagger user, hence why we start the game with a dagger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyrsos

a big (about 100%) boost to en-spell damage or en-spell cap would be perfect, since it would enable us to do more damage in a way that is specific to our job, and has its quirks, advantages, and even specific gear (Enhancing Sword +1 <Can I have it?>).

and it wouldn't be too much of a change in game mechanics or existing gear requirements. in fact something that could probably be changed and tested for any of the future minor upgrades.

maybe tier III en-spells?

---

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! since replaying some of the older FF games I stopped to think "why the heck doesn't En- spells crack with major damage and cost a lot more to cast like this?"


When I first read about En - II spells I got worked up and then when I saw the result the balloon popped right in my face.
Imagine seeing +100 per hit from Enfire with Joyeuse for example. I would love to see that for 250MP or more. Sure this would totally rebalance the way the game is played.
In FFXI, RDM has always been a defensive melee at best. So sad... my first 75 and I never want to play it now that BLU is around.

Who else has been told to come as w/e job you want to an event you show up RDM/NIN and then everyone says "man, you need to /WHM for more healing support!" Screw that!

Oh snap! maybe PLD can hold hate with no /WAR... /stagger... lol no one can imagine that!

Crank up En- spells like the old days!!
Crank up En- spells like the old days!!
Crank up En- spells like the old days!!

Honestly, if we're gonna prattle about native dual-wield, I'd ask for a variant befitting the whole fencing image. One where you can only equip a sword in the main-hand with a dagger in the off-hand. The perk? You can use WS from both weapon types. Any other weapon combo wouldn't work without the dual wield trait, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seriha

Honestly, if we're gonna prattle about native dual-wield, I'd ask for a variant befitting the whole fencing image. One where you can only equip a sword in the main-hand with a dagger in the off-hand. The perk? You can use WS from both weapon types. Any other weapon combo wouldn't work without the dual wield trait, though.

---

Interesting Idea, I like it, seems to complex to be implemented though sadly. not to mention SE would probably think its broken and wouldn't do it anyway. Also, the views when i clicked this thread this time was 3.333. just saying lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seriha

Honestly, if we're gonna prattle about native dual-wield, I'd ask for a variant befitting the whole fencing image. One where you can only equip a sword in the main-hand with a dagger in the off-hand. The perk? You can use WS from both weapon types. Any other weapon combo wouldn't work without the dual wield trait, though.

---

This certainly seems doable. Modern fencing is all about using a weapon in one hand with the other arm being used more for balance. Fencing during the era where duels were common included schools that taught use of a rapier, main gauche and cape (all at the same time). Definitely something to look into, provided the devs have any interest in helping the job become more like an actual fencer. I'll help with the in-game wording.

Escrime: Allows user to equip a dagger in the off-hand while equipping a sword in the main hand. Allows access to weapon skills for both weapons.

Just to tickle the imagination, should this be tiered and/or reduce weapon delay at all? I'd probably make it three tiers that give 8% delay reduction per tier (at max level this would be considerably behind Dual Wield, as DW5 is 35% reduction before gear, whereas Escrime III would give a total of 24% reduction but would be balanced out by the extra WS...kinda).

Meh i know how great the potential /nin is n all but i never really played it, just wasnt my style. untill lvl cap raise i usually stuck w/ /pld /drk, but now w/ lvl cap ive pretty well chucked /pld .. and cuz they removed our tank ability. /drk i get all the abs stat spells minus ACC. working on emp weapon for some CDC, abs TP, CDC fun~ not to mention rdm can survive using last resort + souleater, and w/ /drk sub u gain access to sanguine blade (/shakes fist @ SE for not giving rdm native access) 1.4k ish on SB after a LR+SE CDC would be pretty fun id imagine~ and you still get access to stun, weapon bash for emergency stun, drain and aspir (b4 ppl talk down rdm's dark magic skill, its a non issue... gear up properly like for any other rdm magics!) this play style would benefit more from fencer, wouldnt hurt to have more hybrid shields, or str8 up dmg shields for rdm. only thing more would be to fix our skill in sword, shield, parry (spose dagger too for ppl who still like dagger, but SE is leaning on sword for rdm), ive posted some other ideas thatd augment rdm's frontline needs w/o breaking it, and really arent all that unreasonable.

~* Fiory Janus Griever *~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duelle

This certainly seems doable. Modern fencing is all about using a weapon in one hand with the other arm being used more for balance. Fencing during the era where duels were common included schools that taught use of a rapier, main gauche and cape (all at the same time). Definitely something to look into, provided the devs have any interest in helping the job become more like an actual fencer. I'll help with the in-game wording.

Escrime: Allows user to equip a dagger in the off-hand while equipping a sword in the main hand. Allows access to weapon skills for both weapons.

Just to tickle the imagination, should this be tiered and/or reduce weapon delay at all? I'd probably make it three tiers that give 8% delay reduction per tier (at max level this would be considerably behind Dual Wield, as DW5 is 35% reduction before gear, whereas Escrime III would give a total of 24% reduction but would be balanced out by the extra WS...kinda).

---

I'd just make it a 15% reduction in delay. Nothing fancy. No real need to tier it. The ability to use Evisceration with a high-damage sword would go a long way in helping the conflict between our weapon selection and WS choices. I thought about refining the weapon types down to rapiers/stilettos for the combo, but that would basically eliminate the magian swords from use and our daggers are still meh.

I figured I might chime in with an idea:
How about a JA that is similar to composure and addendum.

Engarde: 30min duration 5 min recast
Enhances accuracy, attack, and non-direct spell damage, but Elemental and Healing magic become unavailable.
Also enhances ability to wield Swords.

Explained: It would greatly increase accuracy and attack. The enhances non-direct spell damage means that it would boost en-spell damage and damage from DOTs (Dia, Bio, Poison). Enfeebling and enhancing magic are unaffected so you can still enfeeble and buff. The trade off is that you cannot nuke, and your only HP recovery spell would be Regen since it counts as enhancing. Enhances ability to wield swords means that it would unlock sword WS that are not normally available to RDM (Specifically: Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade, Vorpal Blade, Sanguine Blade. Excluding Swift Blade because you cannot unlock it even if you sub PLD.)

This would give RDM the ability to put out some respectful melee with the trade off being that they lose the ability to heal or nuke. It also plays to the idea of the RDM as the jack of all trades able to literally fill any role, yet not be the optimal job for filling said role (other than enfeeb).

but...then we aren't versatile anymore.

I mean if we can't back-up cure or nuke when needed while meleeing that defeats the entire point of being a Red Mage.

Also I do like the idea where if a sword is equipped we can equip a dagger in the offhand. We would definitely need the ability to access the daggers WSs otherwise that would really defeat the purpose and I mean if Rangers can access weapon skills from 2 weapons at the same time I'm sure it's not terribly broken to access sword and dagger WSs at the same time. The only thing is I'm not sure if they could actually calculate WS damage with the offhand weapon meaning if they can't then we are doing our eviscerations with a sword...That could be an issue. It might just be easier to not limit which weapon is in which hand but still keep the requirement that it can only be done with a sword/dagger combo.

Since WS now use the main-hand's weapon damage rating, tweaking some kind of exception on that level isn't really needed. The only thing "broken" about using a sword's damage with dagger WS would be Evisceration, but if you're using a high damage sword, you're giving up the TP gain of something like Joyeuse, and RDM currently has no multi-hit daggers. Dagger jobs like THF and DNC have a number of daggers with over 40D in comparison, with abilities to help boost their WS. So, while we may come close at times, it's likely a good THF or DNC would still use it better. When you consider life outside Abyssea, Evisceration will also lose some steam since its potential drops off when your crit rate diminishes. The other jobs can fall back to Dancing Edge or, in the case of high DEF mobs, THFs can use SA/TA Mandalic Stab.

So, you're basically looking at a choice between individual WS power or WS frequency.



And yes, things that lock us from other things is not a help. Ideally, a RDM should've been opening SCs for heavier DDs and using MBs to help with their damage contributions and riding Convert/Refresh so we wouldn't have had to rest and thus lose TP, but the players basically perverted those abilities into a healer's tool. The rest of RDM's flaws building upon that didn't really help the situation.

You know what's versatile? More damage
You know what's a great sword/dagger skill? More damage

If base or enhanced damage isn't increased your fights will still forever and no one will want you to melee anyway.
En- spells need cranking up as a reward to sword/dagger use and a penalty to magic casting. That's how things work: you give up magic casting to focus on physical damage.
Melee VS. Magic

Why must RDM forever be not so great at anything BUT enfeebles? Should change the name to Enfeeble Mage. This fencing argument is ridiculous. Does a fencer need to poke you in the chest 400 hundred times to kill you?

I solo'd Khalamari on RDM and it took half an hour. Sure I can say I did it but I used one stone to get there. That is not efficient or cool. If an En- spell was in there backing me up for good 50~100 DMG ,as it should, the fights would not take as long and RDM would... oh /waitforit god-forbid be asked to come do melee!! Otherwise get in the back row and heal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Varchesis

You know what's versatile? More damage

---

Even if they did buff our enspells I don't see them buffing them that much, and even then it really wouldn't matter. With dual wield we can probably average 60-70 damage per attack round. That's not terrible, yet inside abyssea that damage averages under 10% of a good Red Mage's damage. Simply put enspells don't scale in abyssea like everything else does which means unless we get some enspells that scale don't expect them to really contribute that much inside abyssea, because for them to actually do a meaningful amount inside abyssea they would pretty much break the game outside abyssea.

(You should really put 2 merits into Dia III, an alliance wide +17.5% (minimum) attack boost is pretty big especially for a Rdm's damage)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersun

Even if they did buff our enspells I don't see them buffing them that much, and even then it really wouldn't matter. With dual wield we can probably average 60-70 damage per attack round. That's not terrible, yet inside abyssea that damage averages under 10% of a good Red Mage's damage. Simply put enspells don't scale in abyssea like everything else does which means unless we get some enspells that scale don't expect them to really contribute that much inside abyssea, because for them to actually do a meaningful amount inside abyssea they would pretty much break the game outside abyssea.

(You should really put 2 merits into Dia III, an alliance wide +17.5% (minimum) attack boost is pretty big especially for a Rdm's damage)

---

I disagree but, the concept of game-breaking is some sort of fear we all have. Abyssea is game-breaking cause it makes you not want to do any content outside of it. So, the point seems moot.

The game is broken. Who needs a RDM now anyway? :mad:

If RDMs want to melee more (which is the focus of this thread) then RDM melee needs to compete with other melees to deserve a spot. Why would that break the game?
There would be just one less SAM DRK BLU RNG WAR in the party...
Merits and enfeebles are not the answer I am sorry. Like I said just forget thinking about building gear for melee or SE ever giving you gear for melee because RDMs constantly show that they will take magic gear over melee gear anyway.

BSTs complained and got more of what they want. RDMs won't complain cause we have some notion of chivalry or fencing or Altana knows what... and the result is RDMs will be haste-healing-refresh slaves forever. Heck, even refresh is mostly moot in Abyssea. So Haste and backup heal 'cause you can't main heal against NMs like a WHM. Wait.. don't Haste cause we need to proc and ppl are already doing too much damage...
God, why am I the only one who sees RDM dieing slowly?

Want to see RDM melee one day? Ask for a real enhancement:
Crank up the En- spells like the old days!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Varchesis

There would be just one less SAM DRK BLU RNG WAR in the party...

---

A well geared Rdm already competes (if not beats) all but one or two of those.
I mean when you give examples for DDs why would you list 3 of the worst DDs in the game atm.

You have to realize, there's not just one way to improve Rdm DD. It's perfectly possible to improve it and STILL keep it in the style of the job.

(and are you really complaining about Red Mage's damage when you haven't build a Red Mage DD set O.o)

I'll take En- III with 30~60+ per hit over Dia IV any dang day!! And that's being conservative. Improving RDM melee means hitting harder and/or faster. For RDM that means Enhancing Magic or... enhancing sword/dagger DMG. Not enfeebling magic.

Here are the opposing scenarios:

RDM: "Hey guys, I have Dia IV. We can hit much harder now!"
PT Leader: "Nah, but we can do without Dia IV. RDM hits for crap. We need a DD."
RDM: /cry

=VERSUS=

RDM: "Hey guys, I have En- III. I can hit much harder now!"
PT Leader: "Sweet. That'll work. RDM hits about as hard as other DDs now and can support the party, too."
RDM: "Great! Let me gear up."


Greater En- spell damage. Can I have it?

Dia IV is a bad example considering it's really not that hard to cap attack. Saying that an enfeeble can't work is just not looking at a wide enough scope. For example if we got an enfeeble that caused the monster to take double damage from everything well...Red Mage would likely be the most wanted job. Now obviously that example would be over the top a bit, but enfeebling doesn't necessarily have to mean a defensive effect and it doesn't JUST have to mean defense down. There are weaknesses to enfeebles as well though, mainly that trash monsters die too fast. If a monster dies in 3 seconds that's hardly MP efficient to try and keep an enfeeble on every monster though at the same time you can debate if the increased killing speed at that point is really worth it.

Likewise, Enspells only affect the TP phase which Red Mage has generally NEVER had problems with. Red Mage throughout the history of FFXI has generally been one of the best DoT jobs. It's always been the Weapons Skills that blow us out of the water and it's been those Weapon Skills that always created the huge gap between Red Mage and other DDs (that and leg selection D:). Now with abyssea things have become slightly inverted now. Our Weapon Skills are actually decent but now our TP damage isn't so hot due to our enspells not scaling as well and the fact that we generally are forced to use a lvl 75 dagger in the main hand.

I'm all for T3 Enspells what their effect will be will depend a lot on where the content of FFXI is going imo. If we are going to keep atma then sure, create some broken enspells, but if they ever want to leave abyssea at some point either they will have to balance them so that they are insignificant inside abyssea or that they will have to scale with atma in someway (besides elemental affinity).

Yeah, you're right, Supersun. Blast it all to high heaven.
Blast it all to high heaven!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersun

Simply put enspells don't scale in abyssea like everything else does which means unless we get some enspells that scale don't expect them to really contribute that much inside abyssea, because for them to actually do a meaningful amount inside abyssea they would pretty much break the game outside abyssea.

---

Depends. I could see enspells scaling with attack power or weapon damage. Granted, weapon damage is not as big a factor in this game as it is in some other games, but is still an option. Enhancing skill could still be treated as a modifier of sorts, but no longer be the sole factor that determines enspell damage.

Quote:

---

RDMs won't complain cause we have some notion of chivalry or fencing or Altana knows what... and the result is RDMs will be haste-healing-refresh slaves forever.

---

I disagree. We don't complain because our class is one of the two classes in all of MMOs that embody internal struggle between enthusiasts of different roles. For every one of us who wanted to melee there were 20 who would stomp on us because they were happy with their instant invites to cure/refresh/haste. The facts the devs have favored that crowd without giving the melee enthusiasts much of a glance says quite a bit on its own. Doesn't stop people like me from talking about it, though. =P

As for the fencing thing, that's been part of our theme, and I certainly would want to keep it. As I mentioned elsewhere, we have rapiers, wear tabards and have hats with feathers in them; a magical version of the french musketeers.

That being said, I am a proponent of creating role emphasis depending on what the RDM chooses to do. I don't feel right out-right locking things like magic types, though. I'm more for empowering certain types of actions depending on what role the RDM has chosen to take up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersun

Our Weapon Skills are actually decent but now our TP damage isn't so hot due to our enspells not scaling as well and the fact that we generally are forced to use a lvl 75 dagger in the main hand.

---

Could use one of the two swords that give Chant du Cygne, or could use Twilight Knife.

I wouldn't consider CDC the norm and the twilight knife kills your enspells for that hit which for TPing at least is hard to justify an additional 7 weapon damage for 20-30 enspell damage.

your enspell overwrites the additional effect of twilight knife (if you don't care about getting additional hp/mp/tp from hits). and not to mention the 3% quad attack, it's not a lot, but it is extra damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Protey

your enspell overwrites the additional effect of twilight knife (if you don't care about getting additional hp/mp/tp from hits). and not to mention the 3% quad attack, it's not a lot, but it is extra damage.

---

Do they? I wouldn't know myself since I don't have one (have a CDC sword myself), but the wiki at least says that the additional effect overwrites enspells (not that I put a lot of faith in the wiki now days, but still XD)

yea i have both CDC sword and twilight knife. the main page is incorrect about enspells (as someone also mentioned on the talk page)

there, fixed the main page

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Satyr

Engarde: 30min duration 5 min recast
Enhances accuracy, attack, and non-direct spell damage, but Elemental and Healing magic become unavailable.
Also enhances ability to wield Swords.

Explained: It would greatly increase accuracy and attack. The enhances non-direct spell damage means that it would boost en-spell damage and damage from DOTs (Dia, Bio, Poison). Enfeebling and enhancing magic are unaffected so you can still enfeeble and buff. The trade off is that you cannot nuke, and your only HP recovery spell would be Regen since it counts as enhancing. Enhances ability to wield swords means that it would unlock sword WS that are not normally available to RDM (Specifically: Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade, Vorpal Blade, Sanguine Blade. Excluding Swift Blade because you cannot unlock it even if you sub PLD.)

This would give RDM the ability to put out some respectful melee with the trade off being that they lose the ability to heal or nuke. It also plays to the idea of the RDM as the jack of all trades able to literally fill any role, yet not be the optimal job for filling said role (other than enfeeb).

---

To give a more direct response, the idea is decent (I'd call it Bravazzo instead of Engarde, though), but our job is not one that would greatly benefit from a true blue shape-shifting mechanic (which is what your suggestion adds up to). "Nerfing" healing and nukes by increasing cast times or increasing MP costs would probably be better. I'd lean more towards higher MP cost just in case an extra cure would come in handy, while at the same time preventing people forcing the RDM to suddenly focus on healing while in the front (meaning the RDM would have to cancel Bravazzo and run to the back to actually start heals and support).

Nukes, on the other hand, would become inconvenient to cast due to higher costs, but I can bring in a suggestion I once made that would probably cover that piece of the puzzle:

Botta Majica- Instant. 1 minute cooldown.
Instantly casts one elemental spell through the equipped weapon in the main hand. Accuracy is determined by mainhand weapon skill. TP bonus to spell damage. Spells cast through Botta Majica count as a magic burst. Requires Bravazzo.

MP costs of spells cast through BM would be the baseline costs, provided Bravazzo's downside would be to increase MP costs on heals and nukes. This would make it the preferred way to land spells on enemies with hard-casting nukes as a secondary but less efficient option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cryptic

I think that if we are masters of fencing, then we should be able to dual wield. If red mage had dual wield besides going /nin or /dnc, we could choose other subjobs that could enable us to WS selection.

It would also be cool if RDM had a way of casting -aga version of buffs, in a way similar to sch, then we could be front of the line, and still buff and enfeeble. Boom, I've solve the problem on how to fix RDM.

I have a Khanda+2 OA2-4, and i am working on another at the moment. Outside of Abyssea when i am in yellow hp, i equip the fencers earring [ latent effect: +5 enspell dmg under 100tp] and get atleast +100 additional damage on top of my initial attack as RDM/DNC. When i have two* i'll have the potential of doing +200Add.dmg, on top of an initial, lets say, 200-400 dmg for a total of ~600 dmg. No atma, and depending on the mob.

I think Red Mage should get gear that adds damage to en spell, similar to how the fencer earring works, except without the latent effect. Would even be cool to get a trial weapon that added +25Add.dmg to your enspell.

---

if lets say you brake the average and do 4 attacks per round using that khandi+2 off hand, with capped enhancing magic(including merits/gear/day or weather) is 28 damage per hit so 112(132 with ring, + hollow earring, 144) damage extra per round. Now fencing ring that you use, your hp has to be less then 75%, if your in abyssea fighting nm's you are risking major trouble just for an extra 20 damage per round. Outside if you aren't tanking and the mob doesn't aoe the ring is fine then, but just means your gunna be pausing your tp build for even longer to cure yourself carefully to the right amount of hp. If you could use 2 Khandi's(rare so not possible) that would still be only 224 damage per round(264 with ring, + hollow earring 288)) and that's assuming every round you get the max 8 hits. The fact would be your base damage of the weapon on both hands would be 25 vs 54 from other weapons so all your damage is coming from purely enspells. Since you would only be spamming savage blade or death blossom(you would also be overgoing 100tp everytime aswell and neither of those ws damage increases with tp making many attacks wasted) /nin, compared to someone using evisceration, vorpal blade, CDC, sanguine, or AE you damage falls even further behind due to the ridiculous low base damage weapon and no real adequate ws. Further this by a rdm with proper double atk gear using real sword/daggers will push them even further ahead and you behind since OAx2-4 reduces the impact of double atk substantially. Put this all in abyssea and you couldn't dream to compare with anyone else.


Twilight knife originally did override enspells when it first came out they edited it to not.
I have been reading in this thread people who have been saying rdm has access to good mellee gear ummmm, have you ever built a rdm gear set and looked at the gear any other job has access to?(rhetorical question the answer is no) even brd can build a better tp/CDC set then rdm can, and it doesn't even have to bust its ass for gear(well brd uses daggers so, rng has better gear access still, and whm even more so as far as tping goes). If you want capped gear haste you have 1 choice for head, 1 choice for body(golaird, pure mage), 1(2 if you count hq vs nq)pair of hands(dusk), feet(see previous), Goading belt, king arthoros's belt, or AV's belt(goading being the only realistic belt for majority of players), and the legs are the only 2 choice piece, non of the haste pieces we have access to (except ASA legs) give any type of real bonus to dd(dusk hands and feet have all of like +4 atk so no that does not count). If you have every really tried to build a real rdm melee set your going out of the way for rare armor that really just can't compare to the armor other jobs have access to and the ease at which they get it. Most the gear also has no use except for this specific thing for rdm(unless you have war, or drg lvled aswell then Zelus has another use, haste belts are more important for other jobs so those those should be crossing over form your other jobs to rdm not from). Good luck telling your ls that your rdm(Almace or not) needs a zelas tiara over a warrior. That is actually the reason rdm fell behind in the DD department when TAoU came out and all this new holy crap dd gear came out rdm wasn't on but very very few pieces(but blu was on every single piece and even added to existing gear that looked like it had been made for rdm, but rdm can't use them). Until then rdm was very easily able to keep up with dd as it had access to comparable dd gear, with the release of blu mage SE basically forgot rdm could use weapons. When the lvl cap raised above 75 rdm could begin to wear actual nuking gear vs having to stack elemental magic skill + and this made nuking more a of a viable option for rdm, more so then the addition of T4. Only real new gear we got(outside of empy) was Zelas(which is what makes us finally able to reach haste cap),twighlight knife(which depending on your set up, like mine, can be completely worthless and just a trophy item) and chimaric flueret(which is an amazing sword). They had to stick us on the TotM swords because its our main weapon, Honestly I was amazed that they even remembered that. Also rdm and blu are the only Jobs with magic who don't get the magic damage to tp trait, which rdm should get it at the same lvl as drk. Blu mage should not get this trait as their spells are actually worth the time to cast(because you aren't gaining tp during this time), and mp use because the actually do damage and serve a purpose(Though with T4 access and real nuking gear(damage + not skill +) this has made nuking a more viable option), they also can bet set to use tp to further increase their damage.
Outside of haste while rdm may now have acess to some deceant DA gear my thf still has more da then rdm try's to reach(bar the combo of chimaric + double atk khandi) and 30% triple atk(with 5/5 set bonus) and my thfs not really even trying for the double atk part is just kinda a nice bonus.

I have put far more work into my rdm gear and its actually the most space consuming job since majority of its gear does not cross over due to the "best" gear we have access to being outdated and weak. I can put 10 hours into rdm gear for a 1% improvement(most of which would be hunting/farming for lvl 75 gear) or I could put 10 hours into any other jobs gear and get a 10%+ improvement.

If anyone remembers what rdm was like back in the NA release it was epic I won the Itour back in 05 against all the prince's(first na group to do it, possibly even first group of people to actually do it according to the ffxi developers at the event), and that was after a couple, but not all, of the early rdm mellee nerfs the commentator of the fights was bitching about me melleeing but I did my job perfect including perfectly timed chainspell raise/nuke and my knowledge of how to mellee on rdm allowed me to beat every other person play as rdm I went up against that day at the event. If I could find the vid, the commentator actually eats his own words. So yes I do know how rdm has progressed overtime.

I'd really have to agree with you on the point that RDM has really gotten the shaft on alot of newer melee gear. Specifically I remember that they purposely excluded RDM from wearing any of the VNM sets specifically for fear of overpowering RDM when VNM was first introduced. What's even more perplexing however they've more or less excluded RDM from future releases of gear that they normally had access too like Doublets and Harness armors.

I know SE has claimed in the past they are trying to increase RDM's melee capacity so they can do more frontline work, but it's awfully counter-productive to nix RDM on any melee orientated gear updates and lock them into a spell orientated setup.

remember when an aj used to be more than novelty gear? now rank it among rdms melee bodies.. where is it.. 3rd place at the lowest? yah... just an example of how our available gear is laughably behind the times. it makes me not want to play ffxi anymore. rdm is no longer the job that was sold to me all those years ago.

i'm hoping the inevitable emp armor+3 remedies this.

I can't see SE doing a 180 on the Empyrean set. I held out for some modest hope that the Composure set augment would've meant Haste and other melee perks, but so far it just seems like it's the duration bonus to others. Yay, but at the same time, boo.

If they somehow came to this design choice seeing how RDMs play, then it's unfortunate they've overlooked the whys of how that playstyle came to be, and instead all I can do is point them back to my earlier long posts about the cumulative issues against RDM melee.