TH Procing

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There's no way to be attacking with TH+5 while an enemy has anything less than TH+5 on it.

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Different characters with different TH levels.

Simply put:

Using anything less than a total of TH14 total lowers your chance to proc from 13-14.

Using anything more than TH14 is not going to increase the chance to proc higher or faster to reach 14.

The above is clearly stated by the developer.

The following, can be assumed, that critical hits do not affect Treasure Hunter rate procs.

Furthermore:

Applying TH 8 then removing your TH gear, will lower your chances to proc to 9.

Applying TH 8 while using TH 8 total will reduce your chances to proc to 9.

Applying TH 8 while using TH 9+ total will maximize your chances to proc to 9. (Anything less will lower your chance, anything more will not increase your chance.)

Procing to TH9 then using TH9 total will reduce your chances to proc to 10.

Procing to TH9 while using TH10+ total will maximize your chances to proc to 10.

So on so forth.

This is clearly stated by the developer.

So if we are to make a random assumption, it can be determined:

TH8 when using TH8/9 total is 100 chance to be applied.
Procing from TH8 to TH 9 while using TH9 equipment grants access to the maximum "set rate" value of let's say 25%.
Procing from TH8 to TH9 while using TH8 or lower total reduces your chances to proc to TH9 from 25% to any value less than 25%, such as 20% in TH8, 18% in TH7 etc.

Or simply:

TH8 (Mob) TH9 (player) 25% chance. (The maximum set rate)
TH8 (Mob) TH8 (Player) 20% chance. (An example of the reduced rate)
TH8 (Mob) TH17 (Player 25% chance. (An example of utilizing additional equipment)

(The above values are simply for representation purposes, and do not reflect actual values in-game.)

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative?
3. If so, by what amount? In my example, I've assumed a 10% decrease or decay rate, just for illustration purposes.)
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). subjected to TH procs as described by Camate and illustrated below? (Can the base TH rate and decay rate differ between different content?)

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.
https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

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To my understanding of what is clearly stated by the FFXI developer, you have completely nailed this chart.

Thank you for your effort in creating it!

It looks correct and perfect. Great work!

I do not think critical hit rates affect the rate at which you can proc, per what is stated by the dev response.

Thank you so much for the compliment! Let's hope we get some confirmation from SE! I'm always here and happy to help other FFXI players. :)

You basically got it right. unfortunately there is less than 0% chance they confirm or answer anything.

What happened to TH+ from gear and traits capping at 8? Are you implying that 8 is only the max initial application and gear beyond +8 actually does increase the proc rate?

The first tag is capped at 8, the rate doesn't seem to be

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Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?

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Camate answered this and we quoted it already. Please, stop trying to imagine modifiers that don't exist unless you can provide evidence that they do exist. The dev response indriectly stated the only thing that modifies TH proc chance is not having enough TH.

Even the chart that you created, which doesn't include this as a factor, basically illustrates that. (Very useful chart btw)

As I said before, I'll be the first to agree with you that SE often has... unconventional methods for doing things, but if the devs say "this is how it works" its reasonable to assume that's how it works, unless evidence to the contrary is presented.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Camate answered this and we quoted it already. Please, stop trying to imagine modifiers that don't exist unless you can provide evidence that they do exist. The dev response indriectly stated the only thing that modifies TH proc chance is not having enough TH.

Even the chart that you created, which doesn't include this as a factor, basically illustrates that. (Very useful chart btw)

As I said before, I'll be the first to agree with you that SE often has... unconventional methods for doing things, but if the devs say "this is how it works" its reasonable to assume that's how it works, unless evidence to the contrary is presented.

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Your assertion about the Base TH Rate X is correct. However, I keep explaining your misunderstanding and it's not getting through. We know the Base TH rate X decays, but we do not know if it is linear, constant or otherwise modifiable or preventable. (It was also suggested on FFXIAH that TH procs occur on the mainhand only, but may occur on offhand double attacks or offhand critical hits (either by accident/bug or on purpose)

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We know the Base TH rate X decays, but we do not know if it is linear, constant or otherwise modifiable or preventable.

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Sure, but what's that got to do with critical hits? Nothing. It's just a theory someone threw out there. You need to test for it. Even if it's not linear, you should be able to prove its existence.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Sure, but what's that got to do with critical hits? Nothing. It's just a theory someone threw out there. You need to test for it. Even if it's not linear, you should be able to prove its existence.

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He keeps trying to explain to you that it would be extremely time-consuming, nearly impossible, to test the rate of the decay for TH without understanding which variables need to be isolated. Until you understand this, you are wasting everyone's time with your incessantly empty replies.

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He keeps trying to explain to you that it would be extremely time-consuming, nearly impossible,

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We're not talking about rate of decay here. We're talking about whether or not crit rate affects TH procs. Read Gwydion's original post:

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

1.) Does critical hit rate probably an increased opportunity for TH procs, when compared to normal auto-attacks?
2.) For each TH proc that occurs, will increasing the amount of TH in gear by 1 improve the chance of the next TH-proc to occur?
3.) Expanding on question #2: If I increase my TH in gear by 1 for every TH proc, I am maintaining the "gap" you describe above, so let's say: If I wear TH+5 and proc TH9, then I increase my gear to TH6: Can you tell us what improvement to the probability of TH10 proc occurs here? If the answer is none, we can stay in TH5 gear throughout the fight. If the answer is a very small probability increase, such as from 1% to 1.1% chance of that TH10 proc occurring, I think we deserve to know so we can play and swap gear accordingly.

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Where is decay mentioned here?
Also, you say it would be time consuming to test. Any good sample size would be (though it would go faster if people worked together). But you know, sooner you start, sooner you finish. If it's really that important to you, you'd do what it takes to find out, I would think.

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Until you understand this, you are wasting everyone's time with your incessantly empty replies.

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Sir, it is you who doesn't understand, and I am as entitled to partcipate in this discussion as you are and will not be suppressed. Do us all a favor too: Please don't represent anyone other than yourself. I'm speaking to Gwydion, and if he wants to he can respond, but you can not act on his behalf.

What I admittedly *don't* understand is why this is even being debated in the first place. How does this information help anyone? Let's just pretend crits are confirmed to affect TH procs, even though Camate basically already said nothing other than TH affected TH procs. What does this do for you? I don't see how this is even worth optimizing. When is it going to make a difference? I just don't see how this would have a meaningful impact, even if its true.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

What happened to TH+ from gear and traits capping at 8? Are you implying that 8 is only the max initial application and gear beyond +8 actually does increase the proc rate?

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The initial TH debuff you can apply to the enemy caps at 8.

Procing after 8, to then 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 (14 being the total cap of TH a enemy can be applied by a 1,200 job point THF) is "affected" by equipment.

You cannot "raise" the proc rate, as this is a set value.
You *can* however, prevent its decay.

Decay on TH Proc values happen when your current TH value in traits and equipment are lower than that of the enemies current TH debuff value.

As presented perfectly here:

https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

In other words, you want to be using a total of TH14 value if you wish to proc to 14.

If you wish to proc as high as you can prior to an enemies death, you also want TH14 total.

Anything above TH14 is not helpful, (as 14 is the maximum you can apply, and the "proc rate is set") and anything below 14 is not going to maximize your chances. You can still proc, but your rate will be diminished.

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Originally Posted by Dihlyte

Procing after 8, to then 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 (14 being the total cap of TH a enemy can be applied by a 1,200 job point THF) is "affected" by equipment.

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This thread is the first I've heard of this being true. Is this just common knowledge and I just completely missed it?

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Originally Posted by Catmato

This thread is the first I've heard of this being true. Is this just common knowledge and I just completely missed it?

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It's only affected in the sense that if you don't have enough, you're at a disadvantage. There's no benefit to having more than necessary.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

This thread is the first I've heard of this being true. Is this just common knowledge and I just completely missed it?

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Here is the quote from the deve we're gathering our information from.

The part I snip to includes the specific aspect we're referring.

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Originally Posted by Camate

When the value of Treasure Hunter placed on a monster and the value of the Treasure Hunter on your character are different, this will cause the growth rate to vary.

With that said, if you want to increase the Treasure Hunter value, it is best to utilize equipment that has the Treasure Hunter+ effect. By unequipping Treasure Hunter+ gear, you are essentially creating a gap between the value placed on the monster and your character, which results in an inefficient means for increasing the TH value.

There have been requests to make it so that it's possible to switch out TH+ gear after the TH effect is placed on a monster, but as there is a concern that this would reduce the value of equipment with Treasure Hunter+ and also takes away all the hard work some players have put into maximize their Treasure Hunter.

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Originally Posted by Dihlyte

Here is the quote from the deve we're gathering our information from.

The part I snip to includes the specific aspect we're referring.

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That's the same post I quoted here, but I still can't find any source, be it from the devs themselves or from community testing, stating that equipping TH+ beyond 8 has any effect on the proc rate or anything else.

Ultimately the implication is strong that TH+ is the only influencing factor. Unless evidence to the contrary is presented, I see no reason to believe any other combat statistics play a direct role in TH application.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

That's the same post I quoted here, but I still can't find any source, be it from the devs themselves or from community testing, stating that equipping TH+ beyond 8 has any effect on the proc rate or anything else.

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Please read.

You ask about TH+ 8.

The dev said, and I quote:

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when the value of Treasure Hunter placed on a monster and the value of the Treasure Hunter on your character are different, this will cause the growth rate to vary.

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TH is essentially a debuff.

When you use TH+8 total, and then proceed to proc to 9, and you remain in only TH+8 total, there is now a difference between your TH value and the enemies TH value.

This will cause the rate to now vary. As there is now a difference between your value, and the enemies value.

If you then proc to 10, and you continue to remain in TH+8 value, there is an even larger difference between your equipment/totals and the enemies total.

This means you encounter a decay, or a loss in your proc rate.

If I am in TH+14, and I proc from 8 to 9, there is no "loss" in difference. As stated by the Developer:

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Adding Treasure Hunter+ via equipment, or other means, will not increase the rate at which the Treasure Hunter value grows, as this is a set rate.

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So clearly it is being said, that using any TH+ total value below the current enemies value, will not "increase" the rate, but will instead "lower" the rate if your value is lower.

This is a source directly from the developer, clearly stating, that using anything below TH+14 when trying to proc to TH+14 will cause a reduced chance.

Using only TH+8 while trying to proc to TH+10 from TH+9, which:

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results in an inefficient means for increasing the TH value.

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In other words, it is "important" to use TH+ equipment, removing the need for TH+ equipment,

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takes away all the hard work some players have put into maximize their Treasure Hunter.

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Thus, they have no plans to change how TH+ equipment affects the system as a whole.

There is your source, that using anything lower than TH+14 will reduce your chances to proc to a total of TH+14 on the enemy.

If you are using only TH+8, trying to proc to 9, 10, any number past 8 will be reduced. As stated by the developer. The source you quoted is the source that says this very information.

You cannot raise the proc rate, but using a TH value lower than the enemies, will lower your chances to proc.

Using only TH+8 to try procing to 10 is inefficient.

Using TH+22 is no better than using TH+14, as 14 is the highest value you can proc.

This is the community now telling you TH+8 is not the most effective means by which attempting to proc to TH+14.

This information is also on BGwiki, and has been:

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Example 2: If you plant TH6 on the monster by pulling with your TH gear on and then swap to TH3 to kill the monster, there is a 3-level gap between your current TH level and the monster's current TH level. This makes it comparatively more difficult to proc (approximately a 2% chance per melee round).

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https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Treasure_Hunter

As well as FFXIcylopedia:

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The chance to increase your TH bonus greatly diminishes with each level of difference between the target's current Treasure Hunter effect and your current Treasure Hunter bonus. For example, if you apply TH8 on a monster, and then drop your TH bonus to 3 by switching equipment, further increments will be that much rarer.

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https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

Finally, adding the last bit of useful information:

In some instances, it is likely "better" to keep an enemy alive for longer, in an attempt to proc to TH+14.

It also is clear, in some cases it is "better" to use only minimal TH+ equipment to maximize damage to eliminate enemies faster.

The player must decide in these instances.

Hoping my post doesn't get buried with all of the detailed replies. This is the thread I'm hoping that SE responds to, with 13 likes as of this post:

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

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Originally Posted by Dihlyte

Please read.

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Why start off by being condescending? I'm legit trying to learn.

I've understood the concept from the start; it's not that complicated. I'm not disagreeing or confused with any part of how the upgrade system works, just the cap on TH gear.

Devs have said that TH+ from gear and traits caps at 8. You are saying otherwise. Everything you're basing your replies on assumes that the TH8 cap only applies to the starting point but is bypassed for upgrade procs.

From your own link at https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

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Treasure Hunter+ from equipment stacks with your Job Trait bonus, Atma of Dread, and Treasure Hound, and caps at 8 for Thief as a main job.

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Also at bg https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

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With THF as a main job, the effect of equipment, atma, and job ability bonuses on Treasure Hunter is limited to a base of Treasure Hunter +8

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Neither source makes any reference to procs bypassing this cap. Neither of them use example numbers for using anything beyond +8. From the start, I've been asking you where this cap bypass information came from.

Far as I'm aware the cap is 8, the examples depict how TH is impacted. so once you pass level 8, the gap increases between the TH on the mob and your TH level which makes it harder to proc.

But this discussion has mainly been about if there are any other factors involved (which no one has provided any evidence for, just a supposition that SE does things secretly/in weird ways therefore there must be secret variables even though SE said otherwise, and asking SE to answer questions even though they already answered them)

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Why start off by being condescending? I'm legit trying to learn.

I've understood the concept from the start; it's not that complicated. I'm not disagreeing or confused with any part of how the upgrade system works, just the cap on TH gear.

Devs have said that TH+ from gear and traits caps at 8. You are saying otherwise. Everything you're basing your replies on assumes that the TH8 cap only applies to the starting point but is bypassed for upgrade procs.

From your own link at https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

Also at bg https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter


Neither source makes any reference to procs bypassing this cap. Neither of them use example numbers for using anything beyond +8. From the start, I've been asking you where this cap bypass information came from.

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I'm sorry that was not my intention.

I felt you were not reading what was being said.

I believe personally that the developer cleared up any questions anyone could have.

For me, I will utilize a TH14 THF.

If you will utilize a TH8 THF perhaps that is more beneficial to you.

The important thing is to have fun!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But this discussion has mainly been about if there are any other factors involved

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Yeah, I didn't even touch that part of the discussion because I've never heard of crits or anything else changing the proc rate. Obviously in a very long parse, crits are going to have a slightly increased rate since SA and TA both force crits and have an increased proc chance.

I checked out FFXIAH forums where there's a current discussion with people smarter than me who have suggested that more than TH8 probably doesn't help.

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Originally Posted by Dihlyte

I'm sorry that was not my intention.

I felt you were not reading what was being said.

I believe personally that the developer cleared up any questions anyone could have.

For me, I will utilize a TH14 THF.

If you will utilize a TH8 THF perhaps that is more beneficial to you.

The important thing is to have fun!

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Their statement is you cannot obtain TH14 in gear. They aren't disputing that more TH is better than less, that's a given. Thus, once you reach TH8, you're always being penalized by a difference between your TH and that of the mob. And this would seem to be the reason people want to figure out how to optimize.

However, SE themselves said that only TH affects the TH activation rate. So unless SE is being secretly cryptic (like what is being assumed in some cases) there's nothing we can do to affect the proc rate positively once we get to 8. I do not think there is anything THFs can or need to do in order to optimize their game for their key purpose beyond obtaining the maximum TH from gear)

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

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Bumping in the hopes of a reply from SE. I'm concerned that NA FFXI players simply don't Like posts because they are resigned due to a lack of engagement from SE. We know you guys are super-busy and wear many hats, but please help us out. Thank you.

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I'm concerned that NA FFXI players simply don't Like posts because they are resigned due to a lack of engagement from SE.

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Or maybe we don't like posts because... we don't like them enough to do so? I think you overestimate both the number of people that actually care about this enough to go to SE on the issue, and also the potential impact of any discovery made here. If any modifiers do exist, they are tiny, otherwise you would be able to observe clear and noticeable differences between people with different stats. And in my casual observation, I've never seen any.

Crazy thought. It might also have something to do with the fact that only a small number of people actually post here and we've all already made our feelings known.

Bumping wont get you replies. Particularly when it's already on the front page.

All this time I still don't see anything that needs addressing. SE provided us all the answers. There is no secret modifiers to TH proc chance. If you truly believe that there is, then test for them. It's not hard to do and even if there is an RNG modifier, you can still confirm whether or not a modifier exists at all. "it's too hard" is not an excuse.

But I don't see it as necessary. As far as we can tell from what SE has already told us, the only modifier is the difference between your TH level and the TH level you are trying to reach. Please, for everyone's sanity, stop just assuming that secret unknown modifiers must exist just because they exist for something else. I'm not trying to attack you here. But if you want to make these arguments, you need SOMETHING to back them up.

Also: Let's just pretend you're right for a moment: How is discovering that XYZ thing increases proc rate by 1% going to suddenly make THF more relevant? TH is TH, people will take it if they can get it. Tell FFXI players everywhere why they should care about this.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Or maybe we don't like posts because... we don't like them enough to do so? I think you overestimate both the number of people that actually care about this enough to go to SE on the issue, and also the potential impact of any discovery made here. If any modifiers do exist, they are tiny, otherwise you would be able to observe clear and noticeable differences between people with different stats. And in my casual observation, I've never seen any.

Crazy thought. It might also have something to do with the fact that only a small number of people actually post here and we've all already made our feelings known.

Bumping wont get you replies. Particularly when it's already on the front page.

All this time I still don't see anything that needs addressing. SE provided us all the answers. There is no secret modifiers to TH proc chance. If you truly believe that there is, then test for them. It's not hard to do and even if there is an RNG modifier, you can still confirm whether or not a modifier exists at all. "it's too hard" is not an excuse.

But I don't see it as necessary. As far as we can tell from what SE has already told us, the only modifier is the difference between your TH level and the TH level you are trying to reach. Please, for everyone's sanity, stop just assuming that secret unknown modifiers must exist just because they exist for something else. I'm not trying to attack you here. But if you want to make these arguments, you need SOMETHING to back them up.

Also: Let's just pretend you're right for a moment: How is discovering that XYZ thing increases proc rate by 1% going to suddenly make THF more relevant? TH is TH, people will take it if they can get it. Tell FFXI players everywhere why they should care about this.

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SE's answers would tell us if we can prevent TH proc rate from decaying by increasing TH+ in gear by 1 for every TH proc we receive, above TH8. (i.e. Wear TH+5 to proc TH9 -> Wear TH+6, to proc TH+10, wear TH+7 to proc TH+11, etc.) OR Does simply wearing TH+11/12 cover all bases for TH proc rate decay?

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SE's answers would tell us if we can prevent TH proc rate from decaying by increasing TH+ in gear by 1 for every TH proc we receive, above TH8.

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Maybe I'm out of touch with the available gear, but I thought 8 was the maximum TH attainable from gear?

Regardless, the comments from SE strongly imply that the only factor here is the difference between the current TH on the mob and your TH level. Nothing is "decaying," their statement simply means a larger difference between those two numbers means a smaller proc rate. Considering they said that this is the only factor, there is nothing you can do to prevent the rate from getting worse, other than them releasing gear with more TH on it. I still see no evidence that there are any other factors at work, and frankly, I think SE's explanation is plenty clear.

My previous question remains though- why is this important? Even if there was some way to max out the TH bonus faster, I don't see how this makes THF more relevant. If you want to maximize TH you'll find some way to do it. the time it takes is mostly not important unless the time limit of the content is preventing it. And even then, more drop rate is more drop rate and if people can make something drop easier, they're going to take a THF regardless of how easy maxing the TH is. THF also doesn't have any jobs that compete with it for this effect.

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

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Based on yesterday's Primed for Vanadiel stream, this post got 13 likes, it would be nice if we could get an explanation from the development team about how to influence the rate at which TH decays.

There is no way to influence the rate other than change the difference between your TH and the TH on the mob, or by using SATA which is known to provide a significant increase for that one attack.

SE has already answered this question. Even though people have argued after just a little eyeballing that crits might provide a miniscule rate increase (Those people claiming this is true say its maybe a 1-2% increase), all the crit in the world isn't going to change how people use THF, nor would it be worth doing to somehow make THF more relevant.

The far bigger issue than all of this is the simple fact that TH simply doesn't work at all in too many fights where loot comes out of chests with fixed ratios or personal rewards where TH can not be used. Frankly, if you are looking for ways to up your THF game and become more wanted/relevant in content, it's going to have to be through improving the job's damage potential.

THere is nothing out there that contradicts what SE previously said on this issue. All we have is a few people in the community who have made a suggestion of some other modifiers, but no one has provided enough data or proof that a reasonable person could conclude that such a thing probably exists.

You are absolutely correct but you're wasting your time. Both of us have posted multiple times in this thread saying there's no evidence that anything but attacking with a total of TH+8 has any effect on the proc rate aside from SA/TA/Feint. They keep asking about modifiers that almost certainly aren't there or how much the TH proc rate lowers with progressive TH levels, which does happen but there's almost no need to know the exact math behind it; wear TH+8 to get the maximum effect (or max TH+ that you can wear if you think more than +8 makes a difference for some reason).

Thanks. I just think the crux of this is really just, even if I was willing to think that these claims were true, a slight improvement to THF's speed of capping TH is not going to be some miracle cure for people wanting THF in content, because 1) a lot of content doesn't benefit from TH very much no matter how much you buff it up, and 2) THF needs to be better at other things too.

I mean I could put this to the test on lilith or something, with tens if not hundreds of thousands of attack rounds trying to cap TH before kills if anyone thinks the effort of tracking crit hits would be worthwhile but I am entirely content with just leaving on TH gear when farming anything. I can check on it. I just feel like it's a very unlikely outcome that crit hits improve proc rate. I think that idea maybe comes from SA procs which are always crits.

I have the fix for TH. make it so any job with subjob THF can get up to TH8. that way a full set of volte can relegate THF to the dumpster forever.
Oh, wait, then in the subsequent update make main THF capable of TH12~14 directly. end this proc system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

https://i.imgur.com/0z5iy85.png

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Here's hoping that SE can answer the above questions for us. I would like to equip the correct armor, to prevent the TH proc rate from shrinking, as the mob's TH level increases. When I say correct armor, I mean, the stat that Camate alluded to, which is more TH+ AND...perhaps, any other stats that we players, might be unaware of. My humble and hopeful guess is that Critical Hit Rate also improves TH proc rate...but I'll never be able to confirm this myself. Please help us out SE! :)