Embrava should not give refresh effect, they should keep the regain effect. It is now last 90 x2.5 with AF3+2 hand, exactly 3 minutes, 45 seconds, MATH!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
They should add something new for RDM, revamped their spells so that RDM can buff the entire party or even alliance, isn't that one of RDM uniqueness - enhancing and debuffing the mobs plus crowd control?
RIP RDM
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10-24-2012, 03:47 PMLuvbunny
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10-24-2012, 03:49 PMDemon6324236
3.75min still isn't very long when a RDM can give you a longer refresh easily... and much more often.
Debuffing is... kinda RDM I suppose... Buffs is really COR, BRD, & WHM, not RDM, it may have included RDM in the past a bit but that went south as soon as all RDM spells were self only, and lol at crowd control. Crowd control is BLM Sleepga, BRD Sleepga, BLM Breakga, SCH Manifestation, RDM has very little for crowd control, and none of it really unique except our wonderful Gravity which sticks to nothing. -
10-24-2012, 05:20 PMLuvbunny
LOL so what can RDM contribute to a party or alliance now other than refresh 2 spells? It seems that SCH is taking over our buffing capabilities, and they can nuke way better and heal way better than RDM. Blm, Sch and Brd takes care of crowd control. And Blu is the uber melee mage jobs. I wonder what is the definition of RDM now?
What I am trying to get across is why SE is giving refresh effect to embrava? It seems that all things that used to be in RDM repertoire is given away to other jobs and rendering RDM moot to end game events. -
10-24-2012, 05:42 PMDemon6324236
A well geared RDM can give you a DD with the power to heal & access to magic damage if needed while providing some buffs to your other members, keeping your mages MP up if they do not have MP temps, and debuffs on mobs. Given, this is not often very helpful right now, but sometimes you can make it work, DDing can be done if you have good enough gear in VW, as I said in the other thread, I was 2nd & 3rd 6 fights in a row against Aello excluding 1 with a bad start.
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10-24-2012, 09:44 PMTrangnaiAnd sadly, you will still be outpraised by miles on any of the properly geared melee classes, still be out cured by miles by anything that can cast a cure outside of subjob, out buffed by miles on anything except refresh. If you're high in a priase it means one of two things, plyer doesn't know there job or there job isn't geared properly. granted you had a relic, which is a huge boost to any class. But it could also be the main DDs you had were holding back on fear of getting hate or something stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
Granted RDM is great for general peroprse roles, where they can preform everything at once. but people don't want that. they want a scapegoat, where they can grab a rdm to fill a role that isnt fillable. But the payer has rdm allowing them to fill role effecently without looking into other classes. Then again all i'm saying could be thrown out the window really, I haven't done much voidwatch as rdm. the ones i did do there wasent really a need for rdm. Maybe RDM is more capable on praises in VW then I assume, but it feels as if a little bit behind has become miles behind. Its something doesn't sit right with me, and justifying it by one persons achivements (for the good and the bad of rdm) is the heart of the problem. -
10-24-2012, 11:11 PMDemon6324236
Well to be perfectly honest imo there are not many good RDMs around. RDM is fairly good or bad, depending on the work put in and the level of your gear, if most people look at RDM & see it as subpar for most things then yes its going to be poorly geared by them & its not getting much of anywhere, but if you gear it up well enough it can put out. RDM is the 3rd best healer atm, SCH 2nd thanks to Rapture & Regen, WHM 1st thanks to Cureskin, and I suppose Cure V if its needed. DD power for RDM is not uber amazing, but Req has given it good numbers, Dia 3 does not only increase the RDM's DD, but anyone meleeing, which makes it more valuable, and buffs admittedly RDM loses in basically every way to any other job except in the case of Phalanx & Refresh if needed.
Imo RDM's don't get praise when another job is doing bad, but rather when the RDM is doing good. Often times you can see looking at the party as a whole if the party itself is whats sucking, or if the party is good and the RDM is simply keeping up. If everyone is bad & the RDM is keeping up then the RDM is doing nothing special, I mean yes, they are keeping up with bad DDs, but thats nothing, however if the party is doing well, and the DDs are DDing properly, and the RDM is able to keep up still, then the RDM is doing something right, rather than the others doing something wrong imo.
I may have taken what you said wrongly, idk, I admit I'm tired & I took sleeping meds about 3 hours ago so I wouldn't be all to surprised if they are fuckin with my head atm, but I hope that came across right. In the end when it comes down to it, RDM can offer very little that no other job can do, and in Alliance situations like VW or Legion, that does hurt the job, but thats why lowman things like Meeble Burrows make it shine, it can fill a healer role & a DD role in 1, it can even play crowd control a bit if need be, it can do none of this as well as other jobs, but it can fill them still, and when your party only can consist of 6 people it helps to have 1 player fill 3 roles instead of only 1. -
10-25-2012, 01:39 AMManaKingWhich is still not 5 minutes x 2.5 which is why you wouldn't waste a 30 minute ability on refresh unless you actually had a mage party that would need more MP. The reason RDM isn't everyone's mana battery anymore is they don't need it to be. They aren't replacing us with SCH, because that's not really our spot anymore, they are just putting SCH in it's place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
Yeah we know, we were nerfed before abyssea ever came out, we aren't the ones crying about nerfs because it's not happening to us. Go make another thread about how you deserve nice things for minimal work and reinstating chocobo blinkers prices so we can have a bloated economy. You'll get no sympathy from us since we never got any help from anyone else when our job was destroyed multiple times and you just stood around and watched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
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10-25-2012, 02:14 AMLuvbunnyLMAO, RDM + SCH + SMN are my favorite jobs when the level cap was at 75. When they nerf RDM to oblivion, giving addle to Whm, convert + refresh to everyone that sub rdm, and yet giving the job minimal gain, SMN + SCH ended being the two that are still good. Then the proposed nerf happened to those two jobs. I still fail to see why they ignore the RDMs thread, and refuse to give us a clear definition of what the job can and should be. I still think those youtube videos of RDM soloing everything at lvl 75 cap is to blame. When a job is working as intended in the hand of capable players and they can do the impossible, aka finishing contents, the nerf bats will swing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
FYI: don't really care much about blinkering fiasco, never really did it at all, it affect me none the slightest. But must they also make the cruor abysea gears non sellable to vendors?? I am not here to complaint about these. I am here to wonder why they keep giving RDM spells to every other jobs out there but not giving the job their own exclusive spells that make it stand out from the rest. When VW was introduced in its first few months, people actually bring out RDM again for tier 2 paralyze, slow, blind, bio 3 and dia 3 being one of the proc spells. And some mobs you want to chainspell stuns them. Then we pretty much dropped down and no longer needed once the zerg strategy is formulated and our spells no longer proc anything. -
10-25-2012, 05:30 AMTrangnaiYou're entirely right on this. Red mage is great when it comes to low-man content. The problem comes when a rdm wants get into EG such as voidwatch or legion or any of the new Alliance based End Game. Its especially difficult to get into said content when you can't get your gear up to par. This is relitively harsh for newer rdms and new players of all types, other classes however have abilities and traits that relieve that strain a little bit. where rdm does not.Quote:
Well to be perfectly honest imo there are not many good RDMs around. RDM is fairly good or bad, depending on the work put in and the level of your gear, if most people look at RDM & see it as subpar for most things then yes its going to be poorly geared by them & its not getting much of anywhere, but if you gear it up well enough it can put out. RDM is the 3rd best healer atm, SCH 2nd thanks to Rapture & Regen, WHM 1st thanks to Cureskin, and I suppose Cure V if its needed. DD power for RDM is not uber amazing, but Req has given it good numbers, Dia 3 does not only increase the RDM's DD, but anyone meleeing, which makes it more valuable, and buffs admittedly RDM loses in basically every way to any other job except in the case of Phalanx & Refresh if needed.
Imo RDM's don't get praise when another job is doing bad, but rather when the RDM is doing good. Often times you can see looking at the party as a whole if the party itself is whats sucking, or if the party is good and the RDM is simply keeping up. If everyone is bad & the RDM is keeping up then the RDM is doing nothing special, I mean yes, they are keeping up with bad DDs, but thats nothing, however if the party is doing well, and the DDs are DDing properly, and the RDM is able to keep up still, then the RDM is doing something right, rather than the others doing something wrong imo.
I may have taken what you said wrongly, idk, I admit I'm tired & I took sleeping meds about 3 hours ago so I wouldn't be all to surprised if they are fuckin with my head atm, but I hope that came across right. In the end when it comes down to it, RDM can offer very little that no other job can do, and in Alliance situations like VW or Legion, that does hurt the job, but thats why lowman things like Meeble Burrows make it shine, it can fill a healer role & a DD role in 1, it can even play crowd control a bit if need be, it can do none of this as well as other jobs, but it can fill them still, and when your party only can consist of 6 people it helps to have 1 player fill 3 roles instead of only 1.
Yes, but thats not our falt. There are plenty of MMOs that ensure that kiting tatics are more difficult on boss monsters of any type. SE failed to consider that and instead saw it as a tactic that wouldn't be abused.Quote:
LMAO, RDM + SCH + SMN are my favorite jobs when the level cap was at 75. When they nerf RDM to oblivion, giving addle to Whm, convert + refresh to everyone that sub rdm, and yet giving the job minimal gain, SMN + SCH ended being the two that are still good. Then the proposed nerf happened to those two jobs. I still fail to see why they ignore the RDMs thread, and refuse to give us a clear definition of what the job can and should be. I still think those youtube videos of RDM soloing everything at lvl 75 cap is to blame. When a job is working as intended in the hand of capable players and they can do the impossible, aka finishing contents, the nerf bats will swing.
FYI: don't really care much about blinkering fiasco, never really did it at all, it affect me none the slightest. But must they also make the cruor abysea gears non sellable to vendors?? I am not here to complaint about these. I am here to wonder why they keep giving RDM spells to every other jobs out there but not giving the job their own exclusive spells that make it stand out from the rest. When VW was introduced in its first few months, people actually bring out RDM again for tier 2 paralyze, slow, blind, bio 3 and dia 3 being one of the proc spells. And some mobs you want to chainspell stuns them. Then we pretty much dropped down and no longer needed once the zerg strategy is formulated and our spells no longer proc anything.
They didn't consider future buffs to the job and how they would allow rdm to solo content, but to nerf the enfeebling directly would break rdms ability to fill its role in other areas where they wanted it to be able to do such. So they ended up giving complete immunity to NMs over curtain enfeebles, however they fear buffing rdm due to the fear of omg rdm can solo stuff.
Its rather stupid when you see people constiantly soloing/low-maning content anyway. SE just needs to give up the ghost and buff rdm. there is nothing wrong with it being capable of soloing content at this point. -
10-25-2012, 02:46 PMManaKing
RDM isn't dead, as the post seems to over-exaggerate. It's just a job that gets almost nothing for free and is beginner friendly, but has nothing to get it to end game except hard work. The job may or may not get buffs in the next couple of months and it may or may not be relevant to new content in the new expansion.
It is relevant to low man setups and becomes more relevant when abilities like Embrava and PD get nerfed because they are crutches that people use when they want to Zerg and Zerg more. RDM offers cushioning with enfeebles so long as the mob isn't completely immune to enfeebling and can do things like Haste and Cure as well as contribute to DPS in one form or another. To SEs credit, there are more and more NMs that you can land enfeebles on.
Will people ever appreciate what RDM can do instead of just write it off? Who cares anymore, people are stupid. So long as RDM can be useful, people will play it and like it. So long as people play RDM well, other people can appreciate having a good RDM around. -
10-25-2012, 05:26 PMDemon6324236
My current problem with enfeebling is that 1 I want to use, which I have currently actually had a use for, is still unable to stick to anything I come across I actually need it on!
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10-25-2012, 09:16 PMLlana_Virren2005 called, they want you to know that this kind of RDM is the kind that's been dead, reanimated and now roams the world of vana'diel as a corse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
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10-25-2012, 09:34 PMTrangnaiI think you are ove exaggeratting what people ae saying, No, RDM isn't dead. But it is dying. Due to lack of a real update to the job. If RDMs role doesn't eveolve with the rest of the game people will eventually write it off entirely. RDM is still a fun, playable job. But I know I at least feel like not much has changed from the 75 days, except monsters now being immune to my enffebles even more and everyone else getting a slowing increasing gap on the job from where it stands with the rest of the jobs in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
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10-26-2012, 04:41 PMManaKingMy RDM is very much alive, I was pointing out that people talk sideways about things they don't play anymore because it requires too much work for them. Case in point:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trangnai
I can land enfeebles in Meebles and VoidWatch. Gain-INT is 25 free INT just waiting for you. It's not hard if you actually use your head a little bit. I'm landing Blind on Pil right now, first try, no elemental seal. Does Blind do anything against Pil? Obviously not, but at least you can land proc spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
RDM didn't get a lot of upgrades, this is true. But most people don't have decked out RDMs anyways. What's the point in listening to a bunch of people who aren't willing to gear the job? RDM requires more gear than almost any other job. We still need updates, sure, but most people's RDMs need work too. It's not fair to blame SE entirely for the state of RDM, since I don't know of almost any other RDMs on my server that are as well geared as I am.
I'll tell anyone first hand that RDM becomes increasingly powerful as you start to get closer to being well geared. Get an Excalibur, or Almace to 95+ and see what kind of a difference having weapons with actual damage on them does for your kill times. Don't have a good MAB set? What's stopping you? PDT, Enhancing, and Stoneskin sets. Start filling those out and suddenly your shitty RDM can actually do things and take hits to the face in plenty of situations.
Yes we still need updates, but we also need people to actually play RDM like they are serious about playing it. You can get into VWs as 2-4 + enfeebles if people need another BLM. I wouldn't suggest you go as a WHM replacement, but I hate healing anyways. You can even Melee some of the things so long as your TP and WSs don't look as crappy as 90% of all RDMs are. You can't half ass this job and expect good things. That's not how it works. -
10-26-2012, 04:49 PMDemon6324236I wonder if you count me in there... >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
This is so very true, and yet so few seem to understand or accept it!Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
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10-26-2012, 09:24 PMLlana_VirrenThe problem is that even the serious RDMs, as I used to be, got sick of a job that was being left behind. Congrats on landing Blind on Pil... but the issue isn't the accuracy of our spells on mobs it can land on... its that the monster is either immune to the spell, or the spell carries negligible, if any effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
Spending 2 years as a Hastebot for ToAU parties didn't help either, and having been overlooked on both Enhancing and Enfeebling spells (which we were championing through our prime years) further distanced players from the job.
What many people chose not to see, is that having a "well geared RDM" was the argument in 2005/2006 against letting a RDM do things outside of the typecasted role. This is 2012, going on 2013, and the job is not being played in anything other than solo (or tight-knit lowman groups) because the job has nothing to contribute to the game.
This is the cold honest truth about it, and anyone who thinks otherwise truly is living in the past. -
10-27-2012, 12:42 AMPsxpert2011I'm so sorry about this. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilia
Being a Monk and all, I think there's times we need to be concerned with our role and how we'll stack up to other jobs. Maybe SE is just throwing new jobs out there from new ideas and the community it labeling it "new XXX job" substitute.
Hopefully when adventurers get to learn the news jobs, it'll be clear no one is being replaced and forgotten.
Good luck to all you Musketeer RDMs! ;) -
10-27-2012, 11:33 AMAfaniaThe honest truth about RDM, and every "left behind" job in general, is the way FFXI job system is designed. If you really really NEED a job, that's due to certain job has 1 aspect makes the event goes MUCH better. Otherwise you don't need it. And whether that 1 aspect of the job is needed or not, depend on most optimal strat currently discovered by players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
You don't need debuff in VW with temps zerg fest with little problem on time, thus if you only do VW, then you don't need RDM.
You need CS stun and Dia3 in legion(not necessary for the win, but makes shit much easier), thus if you do legion, you need RDM.
There's a set of most optimal setup for VW, and for legion. And RDM just happened not be in optimal setup for VW, and be in optimal setup for legion.
This also apply to many other jobs. Before players discover SCH Embrava Nyzul strat, it was an unwanted mage job. Then they discover SCH makes NNI a lot easier, and that's how it become a must have mage job for NNI due to 1 aspect of the job.
I'd say it's too early to say GEO RNF is useless or not, or if it will make RDM even less useful or not. Because this completely depend on what game content coming after SoA.
If player found pt setup with RDM DRK WAR MNK best setup for SoA content, then RDM will be needed. If players found best pt setup is RNF GEO WAR SAM, then RNF and GEO will be needed. However, we can't really predict what's next game content looks like, nor what kind of optimal setup playerbase will tend to use, so it's hard to say. -
10-27-2012, 02:45 PMManaKingYeah, you're in there. You made not just 1 prestige weapon, but 2, you clearly aren't half assing your job. I'm not sure what your other sets looks like, but if you put as much effort into them as your melee sets then they are probably well off. If you haven't yet, you probably can rectify it pretty quickly, since you've at least learned how to do at least 1 part of RDM well. The rest take just as much time and are equally annoying to perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
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10-27-2012, 02:59 PMManaKingReally because in VW, Pil was just sitting their drooling on himself because I landed Blind. Previous to a couple patches ago, you couldn't land enfeebles in VW about 1/2 the time. RDM got left out because enfeebles couldn't contribute to playing the same proc games as other jobs could. Now they can. RDM isn't fixed, but at least the newer content isn't specifically made to exclude RDM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
Once again, offer 2-4 and enfeebles. Get invited to VW on RDM. A couple of months back, not so much.
Do our enfeebles do anything? Not really. Dia 3 against most. Against some things, they will cripple NMs, but not against anything you would bring more than a party against. Still better than not even being considered in the game at all.
Have fun not playing your RDM. Don't gear it. And certainly never let anyone know you ever liked it. That way everyone thinks that no one plays RDM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
I'll keep gearing my other jobs on my RDM and full-timing my RDM. Why? Because it's possible and fun. -
10-27-2012, 03:18 PMLlana_VirrenEven retired my RDM is better geared than most for magery. But inviting a RDM for 2-4 and enfeebles can easily be accomplished by me going on blm, subbing rdm (or sch) and covering MORE procs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
And if you landing Blind on Pil debilitated it as adequately as you say it did, I'd tell you to lay off the crack. -
10-27-2012, 05:18 PMBabekeke
With the new system and enough casts, you can probably land Blind on Pil as smn/rdm lol.
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10-28-2012, 02:46 AMManaKingProc = locked in VW, or do you somehow not know that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
Also get off your high horse, if you think your retired RDM is up to par then maybe you need to lay off the crack. Sure you can gear your RDM by gearing your SCH or BLM, but if you're not going to play your RDM, then why are you even here? You copped out and now you are trying to condescend on people that are willing to stick it out and play what they like instead of what is easy. Here's a slow clap to see you out you classy, classy gentleman/lady. -
11-21-2012, 07:45 AMDaydreamer
Redmage should be allowed to ARISE. I think these spells would give redmage new life.:cool:
"RefreshJA" Cast it more times on the team members to enhance its affect based on enhancing magic skill and gear.
"HasteJA" Cast it more times on the team members to enhance its affect based on enhancing magic skill and gear.
"PhalanxJA" Cast it more times on the team members to enhance its affect based on enhancing magic skill and gear.
"Potency aura" Increase Physical and Magical critical hit rates. critical hit rates will increase with enhancing magic skill and the number of times the effect is casted on the group up to cap.
They can be as expensive as you want them to be for balance but it would be a fun way to give redmage haste II in a sense, and it would be better overal by making it AOE just have to use MP to build its haste powers vs targeting 5 people to give haste II .
The same can be said about the rest and Phalanx II is just never going to really be very awesome. Fix Diablos phalanx and give redmage a phalanxJA that starts at the same dmg taken down and increases 3 points of damage for every recast up to maybe 12~18 points more of damage mitigated. still going to eat up alot of mp but RDM has a lot of MP to eat up.
RefreshJA, I think its fair and balanced even without talking about the final number values it will hand out. The redmage would still have to keep on top of the refresh powers, can still use refresh II for the party members you want to single out.
Despite the Hydra hat from a long long time ago. There is almost no other way to get the effect of potency besides abyssea / VW / brown casket items. Also I dont think potency effects Magical critical hit rates, let this one effect both of those. Its a fun and fair way to up the critical hit rates on players.
Overall I believe this set of Spells would increase the use of redmage and hopefully bring it back from the dead. While still maintaining balance and maybe even tipping the scales back in the players direction so long as you bring your redmage along. -
11-21-2012, 04:44 PMLuvbunny
Agreed, Arise and Meteor should have been given to RDM, and so is Embrava. Heck if they do not want to share Embrava, RDM should get Mighty Guard :P
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11-22-2012, 02:33 AMMageoholic
RDM would be better served by adjusting the mechanics of enfeebling and enhancing magic to actually affect potency, not new spells or abilities. You can't build a house without a foundation, and presently RDM's foundation in enfeebling and enhancing is decaying. When a BRD/RDM can do everything a RDM main can do just as well, in addition to all of its BRD stuff, there is a problem, and that problem isn't the abilities or spells RDM has access too. It is how those abilities and spells potencies are determined. A BRD/RDM gets a full 15% haste, it can cap a 29% Slow I and the ACC to land it!, fix the mechanics, then add to the job.
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11-22-2012, 11:47 AMLlana_VirrenI retired my RDM because being an MP battery was not fun, or advantageous to my time spent in the game. And despite your sensitive response, the fact of the matter is that RDM is not dying. It is dead. It has been dead for years, and will continue to be so.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
Suggesting that RDM is "fun" is misleading. It is fun if you like to play solo, or low-man with close friends.
RDM has and continues to offer nothing to end-game content, and for that reason I stopped having fun playing it. -
11-22-2012, 12:17 PMDemon6324236
I have fun playing my RDM, but then again I play it as a DD and a mage in one as few do. I do good damage and have no problem getting in parties with those who trust me to do my shit well. RDM is only dead if you either play it bad, or if you let it stay that way, I let my RDM live and gear it well, getting better each day. You cant expect RDM to just be a Refresh/Haste whore like before, play the job the way I have been and I can assure you, it will give you something worth playing.
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11-22-2012, 05:46 PMManaKingAnd cop out. See ya. Seriously, get out of here. RDM is still fun. You're just a quitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
Sorry you can't figure out how to play RDM in end game content. It's already been discussed. You clearly don't like playing RDM. Stop posting here. -
11-23-2012, 12:43 AMSNKNo offense but she's right. It's a dead job. I can't even remember the last time I was asked to gear up my RDM. For anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
Ever. -
11-23-2012, 01:33 AMDemon6324236
Because people don't specifically ask for it, its dead?
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11-23-2012, 05:26 AMsaevelIt's dead because there is nothing RDM can do that another job can't do better. Healing is for WHM, magic damage is for BLM, meleeing is for the pure DD's, White + Black magic is for SCH, hybrid DD / healing / crowd control is for BLU. All of them above can "enfeebled". Buffing / Party Support is for WHM, BRD, COR, SMN, and SCH, all can do everything RDM provides are more. Hell BLU/RDM can do everything RDM can do, while also doing AoE Haste most of the time (ST haste in between).Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
Seriously, no reason to use RDM ~ever~. It's a direct result of SE totally ignoring the job for years and giving it weak gear options combined with weak magic / JA / JTs. -
11-23-2012, 07:01 AMManaKingBecause a job is not asked for, it is useless. Excellent we have some more geniuses in here tell us the definition of what it means for a job to be dead in video game terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by SNK
It can still be played and be useful, but hey because no one shouts for one, they must be non existent. -
11-23-2012, 07:08 AMDemon6324236
See it as you will then, I don't see the job as dead, I see it as underused, because people don't understand how to use the job anymore to be effective. It is not more effective in any of those fields than the job that is supposed to be better in those fields, because its not meant to be. It can still do what it needs to, the only thing that needs improved is the ability to use Brave/Faith to focus our power on what we are doing the most of at the time, as well as fixing our shit merits and fixing our spell list by adding new tiers and buffing old spells which were broken with the cap going up, not to mention the spells like En-IIs that were broken to start. Past that, job is fine, which is why I still play it and recently have almost been playing RDM exclusively on Demonjustin.
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11-23-2012, 07:28 AMSpankWustler
Arguing that a job is valid because it "is useful" is just as extreme as arguing that the job is dead. Any game in FFXI can be useful, but there are 20 of the darn things, so it's a matter of which is more useful or most useful.
Even though combining Chainspell with Stun might come back in vogue once Embrava and Perfect Defense are adjusted, there's the counter-argument that two Scholars would have low enough Stun recasts for the entire event rather than a 120 (140) second burst of TONS'O'STUNS. Or, depending on the monster, the new Paladin or Thief SP might be a better solution by then.
Red Mage might be really great for that one thing, eventually, but it looks from a distance like the job has competition for a niche it doesn't even have yet.
Things like "useful" and "dead" are very strong terms and very subjective. "Fun" is even more subjective. Objectively, Red Mage is one of the least useful jobs in FFXI currently and it needs tools it does not have. -
11-23-2012, 11:45 AMOrdoric
what do you rdm elites want?
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11-23-2012, 11:46 AMLlana_VirrenThe problem is not that RDM isn't "as good" as the non-hybrids. RDMs aren't supposed to heal better than WHMs or deal more damage than BLMs or melee better than WARs. But that isn't the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon6324236
At 75-cap RDM was better than WHM because it could suspend its MP pool long enough to maintain haste and refresh cycles without losing the ability to also Cure. Once WHM regained its proper role as a master healer, RDM had no other "niche" to fill; for procs, a BLM/rdm can cover more procs than RDM/anything; for any high-intensity battlefield WHMs and SCHs could provide more survivability and enhancements than RDM.
So, the problem is really that RDM never had a niche to fill. Up until the 75-cap was raised, RDM was simply a glorified Pink Mage; used in place of WHMs due to MP management tools. Yes you could enfeeble things, but we're not in 2006 any more. The events that we do now do not need enfeebles, and if they do, BLM/rdm or WHM/rdm or SCH/rdm can still handle it.
RDM has nothing that it can offer to the game. To say that it is "fun" is OK, but just because something is fun for you does not mean it is relevant to the game. I'm sure some people have fun playing PUP, but you're rarely, if ever going to find someone going PUP to end-game events. -
11-23-2012, 06:48 PMCalatillaHere-in lies the problem, enfeebles need to be made relevant and tiered by skill, adjust enfeebles like they did with cures. Do that and RDM becomes relevant again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Llana_Virren
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11-23-2012, 06:50 PMManaKing
RDM just needs some buffs to any one of the many places it has become deficient since 75 to be more attractive and useful.
The list of what we want has already been made probably 50 or 60 times on the NA forums. Honestly, it's just negligence at this point that RDM is still in such obvious, bad shape.
Just because it's not anywhere near the strong side of the job list doesn't mean it's dead. It still has uses. It still has tactics to be used. PD/Embrava are going to be less effective. Which means CCS is going to be more useful for extremely dangerous situations. Dia III is still 5% more defense down than Dia II. If you have 33% less time in PD immunity, you better hope that you are maximizing your Zerg. -
11-23-2012, 09:16 PMsaevelCSS is good and dead for 90% of things you need them on. RDM only has an E in dark magic skill and due to the way skill caps raised after level 76 RDM's dark magic is so low that even stun's magic acc bonus isn't enough. SCH's on the other hand have B+ in dark magic with DA up, that is before their gear and staff options.Quote:
Even though combining Chainspell with Stun might come back in vogue once Embrava and Perfect Defense are adjusted, there's the counter-argument that two Scholars would have low enough Stun recasts for the entire event rather than a 120 (140) second burst of TONS'O'STUNS.
RDM @99 = 300 base Dark Magic Skill
SCH @99 = 404 base Dark Magic Skill
A level 110 monster had 450 base magic evasion, and gains another 7 for each level. This doesn't take into account any natural resistance to thunder nor any resistance (natural or accumulative) to the stun status effect.
So yeah two x SCH/BLM's can stun lock pretty much anything.