Aren't pets dismissed at the start of a fight with confrontation status? If so, why not have confrontation status just boost the Wyvern to maximum power (or have an item that does this as a latent...) if this isn't already done?
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Maybe the longer we keep the same Wyvern alive in a single zone, the EXP bonus HP/Attack/Resistence can occur naturally? Or make gear that enahnces "Call Wyvern" with each piece acting like +250 EXP was gained when we Call Wyvern, the full set could give the full +1000 exp bonus parameters when we wear it while equipping Call Wyvern. Maybe a set effect for 5/5 DRG relic +2?
Yeah SAM and THF have 13 abilities and we have 11, I don't see how we have reached the cap. It feels like we got nothing 96-99 while mages got spells and other jobs received useful trait buffs like another tier of DW or Shield Mastery or MDB. How can they give SAM job abilities almost EVERY update, including JA's for old level caps(Like when they gave SAM Konzen-ittai at level 65 when the level cap was already 90 for several months and when SAM was already very powerful). I hope they decide to give DRG some more job abilities since half of our job abilities are old jumps or relate to our wyvern.
Speaking of Wyverns, they are MASSIVELY useless in Voidwatch outside of procing(pure luck by the way). Do you know how much damage a Dragoon's Wyvern contributes to say a Qilin fight? 0.5% total damage. Why do we even have Wyverns? Just delete wyverns and make us better melee attackers, our wyvern either dies one AoE when Steady Wing is down or we die when Fanatic's Drink is down and lose our Wyvern. When it's alive its ONLY use is for enhanced TP gain for Spirit and Soul Jump because wyverns hit VW mobs for 15-30 damage. Ironically that's the same damage my Wyvern used to deal to KIRIN at 75.
I must commend you SE, you managed to attain balance at 99. By balance I mean, most jobs are exactly as strong at 99, and by extension; useful, as they were at 75. The jobs that were amazing, useful and strong at endgame content at 75 are still the best at 99 end game content while weaker jobs are still not as strong as they could be.
How do we have 11 ability recasts? I count 9.
Call Wyvern
Ancient Circle
Jump/Spirit Jump
Spirit Link
High Jump/Soul Jump
Super Jump
Angon
Deep Breathing
Dragon Breaker
2Hrs shouldn't count since they share recasts across all jobs, in which case SAM and THF only have 12 abilities.
Pet commands also shouldn't count, since if they do BST has far more than 12 abilities.
I'd postulate that the developers mean to say that they have reached the 12 ability recast limit, or have just about. At Lv.75 when they must have decided to linked Spirit Jump with Jump, we had 8 abilities, we know they planned on adding 3 new abilities since they did. That would have put us on 11 abilities meaning they'd need to link something to open up more room if they planned to add two new abilities, so perhaps they've had something like a Stance ability in the works for about a year? That's the only explanation I can see, assuming it's not just another bogus excuse or there's something I missed.
I think they should rework some abilities as pet commands, assuming I'm right and they don't impact this recast cap. I really cannot see why Spirit Link and Deep Breathing are job abilities, they really should just be pet commands considering the effect the pet.
Failing that, change Spirit Link into a DNC style ability or again, a Stratagem style ability. In short, make it a single ability recast for all Wyvern related abilities, the name is certainly ambiguous for it.
Give it a 5 minute recast. Make it a Lv.1 DRG unique ability. Stick Call Wyvern, Empathy and Deep Breathing under it. Split the current effects, we can use it to heal the Wyvern at Lv.25, transfer its TP to us at Lv.50 and so on. Even add some new aspects to it. Frees up space for more recasts. Lowers the recast on Call Wyvern. Only issue I can see is if it doesn't work like Stratagems we're at a loss technically, but I wouldn't mind that too much for extra job abilities that I might use. Probably needs more work, but I certainly wouldn't mind Empathy and the TP transfer being separate from the healing aspect.
Either you count two-hour abilities (which I don't believe you should), then SAM has 13, THF 14, DRG 12. Without SAM has 12, THF 13, DRG 11. Camate's post was specifically targeted at the recast times for those abilities and THF has two abilities that share the recast-timer (Steal and Despoil), as well two abilities with a shared, but mixed recast timer (Collaborator and Accomplice). If they count that as one it would mean DRG has even less than 12 (9, if I didn't miscount somewhere), since some of their jump-moves share timers. And if you consider that, maybe pet-abilities count as job abilities for this too (to my knowledge they posess all the qualities of regular job abilities, only directed at your pet)? That would possibly bring DRG back to 12, depending on if any of those share their recast timer (I'm not a DRG, so I don't know). If none of them share timers, it should even be at 13. I probably missed something though.
I blame half-assed explanation that he was given to serve to us on a rust-encrusted platter.
SE being lazy SE as usual.
Approve this message if you think Tanaka should be booted from everything involved with electronics.
Greetings :)
Just wanted to give a bit more information in regards to recast timers and some other feedback we have been seeing.
Maximum recast timer slots
The maximum number of recast timers is currently set at 12 recast timers, but we do have plans to increase this number in the future. However, this adjustment requires quite a bit of time and we appreciate your understanding in the meantime while this is worked on.
Interchanging abilities
Next, in regards to the request to remove existing abilities and split recast timers.
It wouldn’t be impossible to remove abilities, but the following must take place in order to make it happen:As such, removing an ability would be a last resort (removing abilities has that large of an impact).
- Reevaluate parameters and numerical values
- If adjusting the numbers is not enough, reevaluate the effects themselves
- If the abilities are still unsatisfactory, consider removing abilities
Angon
In regards to Angon, the development team is looking into adjustments so that the lowered defense effect stacks with other defense lowering effects.
Call Wyvern Recast Timer
After discussing your feedback for a lower recast timer on Call Wyvern, the development team mentioned that they do not have plans to lower this any further and will be making adjustments to this via abilities and usable items.
All we ask is for one more job ability that simply increases our attack by a moderate amount for a moderate duration at the cost of something like critical defense or critical evasion so that we can overcome the weakness of our multi hit weapon skills like Drakesbane and Pentathrust on high level targets. I understand why there is a penalty for multihit weapon skills because they can be very powerful against lower level targets but understand that Chant du Cygne, Resolution, Raging Rush and many other weapons' multi hit weapon skills do not suffer this penalty. Before the addition of these new level 99 weapon skills, the only weapon skills that had an Attack Penalty were exclusively Penta Thrust and Drakesbane while other damage dealers had not only the absence of Attack Penalties on their weapon skills but actually had Attack Bonuses!
I can't understand why there is "Defense Ignored Varies with TP" is present on Wheeling Thrust and Camlann's Torment when many weapon skills have hidden effect of "Ignore Defense" via a built in Attack Bonus Multiplier. Tachi: Yukikaze/Gekko/Kasha also ignore some defense just like Camlann's Torment and Wheeling Thrust, but it's not variable with TP. So those weapon skills Ignore Defense, deal status ailments such as Blind/Paralyze/Silence with 100% accuracy unless the target is immune AND deals increased damage with TP. Whereas Camlanns' Torment also has Ignore Defense but it's variable with TP which means it's basically the same base damage at all levels of TP.
Remove the attack penalty on Drakesbane and adding a job ability that boosts our attack and I guarantee you, 99% of the DRG community will never ask for anymore adjustments, and I'm willing to bet you we would gladly sacrifice Healing Breath IV for it(because Healing Breath III already heals almost 800 HP with the proper gear and close to 1300 with Deep Breathing which is more than enough for a melee job, compared to Chakra which heals half that and once every 3 minutes compared to 1 minute.) Giving us Healing Breath IV is excessive and is honestly a slap in the face to SCH and RDM who were told they will not be given Cure V(which heals less than Healing Breath III mind you) We don't really need Healing Breath IV, though it's welcomed anyway, but we'd gladly give it up for an Attack boosting job ability or a trait that allows us to occasionally ignore defense that stacks with weapon skills because Healing Breath III is more than sufficient already, healing us or a party member for 800-1300 HP for no cost to MP or enmity for our Wyvern, compared to Cure V which costs significant MP, or waltzes which cost significant TP.
Most Dragoons won't admit it because we don't want any buffs to our job removed but the talk amongst the DRGs is that Healing Breath III is already excessively strong for its cost with Restoring Breath and that Healing Breath IV even if it heals 100 more than Healing Breath III will be very potent for a melee class job and we'd rather the job adustment energies being focused on making Dragoon a better damage dealer rather than a novel DD/Support hybrid. The fact that there's so much gear out there that enhances Healing Breath III further weakens the need for Healing Breath IV. Perhaps if you grant Healing Breath IV a stoneskin effect like Cures under the WHM ability Afflatus Solace, it may have more utility or even a potent but short term Regen but to give us a stronger instant Cure ability when our current one already heals up to half or more of our entire HP seems like too much. Rather have buffs to our attack and weapon skill damage than to heals.
As for splitting Job Abilities, some feedback:
-Combine: Release/Dismiss/Leave/Deactivate into 1 job ability timer and make it universal across all jobs like 2 hour abilities but with differing recasts.
-Combine Sepulcher/Dragon Breaker/Arcane Crest/Hamanoha into one recast.
-All Circles into 1 recast, lower the recast to 3-5 minutes as well.
-Make Deep Breathing and Spirit Link into Pet Commands.
Hm, so 55% Def down with 2 hour now and Bravura WAR and DRG BFF?
Also I like how I type out a huge ass list of concerns and he still won't reply. Especially about Camlann's Torment.
Ya, maybe just adjust Camlann's Torment already... the deffence ignored is so low, it's lower than wheeling thrust which is retarded for a emp weaponskill.
It starts at 10% def ignore when wheeling starts at 50% as far as I now. It should just ignore damage resistance instead of defense, that'd make it unique and useful as Hell. And it just needs to be flat out stronger and scale better.
Maybe they can look in to upgrading Gungnir's Defense down proc and upgrade to be more potent or equal to the relic +2 hands hands(25% defense down right?)for the 99 stage 1 version. Would be nice also for that to stack on top of other defense down abilities. Angon + Gungnir = 50% defense down would be... awesome.
Pretty much the only good update I've seen all 3 weeks.Quote:
Angon
In regards to Angon, the development team is looking into adjustments so that the lowered defense effect stacks with other defense lowering effects.
You're better off using tachi: ageha, because not only is it 30% def down but it lasts 3 minutes. IMO That is pretty cool because it's stronger than angon AND my relic gungnir ws additional effect AND it lasts 3 minutes. Stacks with angon though. Not bravura.Quote:
Hm, so 55% Def down with 2 hour now and Bravura WAR and DRG BFF?
Also I like how I type out a huge ass list of concerns and he still won't reply. Especially about Camlann's Torment.
Not exactly relevant to Dragoon, but I'm happy to hear "This will take some time but we're doing it anyway!" from the Development Bros in general. It's very optimistic compared to the all-too-familiar "This will take some time so we're not doing it!"
Now would be the perfect time to make Angon a unique Defense Down effect so I hope that plan goes through. The Defense Down from Tourbillion is a bit higher than Angon's Defense Down (but not nearly as accurate) and more people are able to make a Gungnir than ever before (and sadly, the Defense Down effect is one of the best things on it).
Anyone know anything about what Healing Breath4 gives?
I don't think it's been added to the test server yet, I was on two nights ago and the DRG changes werent in place just yet.
I'm glad SE is raising our attributes!! I suggested this YEARS ago back in 2004. I could never understand how or why a DRG can 'Jump' so high yet our evasion and parrying were lower than a THF or NIN, heck even a PLD was more adroit than us. I figured if we could Super Jump hundreds of feet in the air, maybe our footwork would be better than a Paladin's to be able to dodge some more hits than them, especially since we wear lighter armor than them too! DRG always should have had higher evasion. It's nice that our Parrying is higher too since we've always had ridiculous amounts of parrying gear available for some reason(Schiltron's Spear, Wyrm Mail, Drachen Gauntlets, etc.) The HP bonus is pretty good too and I'm surprised SE uses the letter-grade shystem, I thought that was a player term.
Attribute Ranking Adjustments :
•HP will be raised from C to C+.
•Evasion skill will be raised from C- to B.
•Parrying skill will be raised from C to B-.
:)
I bet we can get SE to change Spirit Surge's STR Bonus to an Attack Bonus since they made numerous adjustments to Tabula Rasa on the test server(Increased its duration like twice and changed Kaustra/Embrava MP, potency,duration)
The STR bonus is decent but on strong mobs which is what we'd be using the ability on, an Attack Bonus would probably be a lot better, maybe 15-20%. This stacked with the defense down from angon or Jump would make up for SE deciding against increasing the duration to 90 seconds. Or even if they opt out of the Attack Bonus, at least let Angon stack with the Defense Down from Spirit Surge Jump.
Howdy!
Just wanted to pass along some insight into some of the changes that were made to the previously outlined dragoon adjustments.
Cure Breath Adjustments
We’ve decided to remove “Petrification (Lv 99)” from the list of possible status ailments that Cure Breath can remove.
At first, since there were comments asking to increase the status ailments that could be cured with Cure Breath, we were looking into improving the benefits to the party when white mage is your support job; however, at the same time we thought that there are almost no cases that you would not be petrified when the rest of your party was petrified.
After releasing the information and reflecting these changes on the test server, we received the same feedback on the forum and as a result made this decision.
We will be adjusting the priority order of the status ailments that Cure Breath cures at another time, so again, if you have request for this please let us know.
Dragoon Adjustments
With the shortened recasts on Jump/High Jump/Spirit Jump/Soul Jump, dragoon's damage was increased. Also, with the addition of Healing Breath IV, there will be a good deal of healing power.
However, when activating Healing Breath, you need to stop attacking (mainly auto-attack) and cannot deal damage. In other words, the more frequently you activate Healing Breath, the less damage you deal, so because of this we enhanced dragoons’s defenses.
I'm confused here. Then what happens in the cases where we are not /WHM??? Maybe we /WAR, /SAM, /BLU, /RDM, etc, etc. What happens if we're fighting off the side and only the tank (or 1 other person) got petrified? Now, having the ability to cure petrifiication would off load that from the mage. Either because we might not have one that has stona or perhaps just so they dont need to cast stona? I'm lost as to why this ailment is removed from the list because of when we /WHM??? Do the DEV expect DRG to be /WHM if they ever use Healing Breath?
I'm beyond confused at that statement you made and the logic makes absolutely no sense at all.
Its amazing how often peoples first reaction to things on this forum is to be outraged. The job just got a HUGE buff. Just frigging be happy, or at least learn to talk constructively. I know Camate wants to say this but he can't :-)
The point seems pretty clear to me. Remove Petri would rarely be used. It would not be completely useless, but I can't imagine many cases where it would come up, particularly when I'm DRG/mage. I approve of this change, although it would be nice if we received a different remove breath at 99 to replace it *cough*silence*cough*. For now, I'll take my unexpected defensive skills and be content.
Just wanted to note that I edited my post above for clarity.
It's not that each Jump was made more powerful, but the overall damage output of dragoon.
To be honest I can't see how the enmity removal of the target behind us will be useful for High Jump or Super Jump. Usually Dragoons are placed in parties with other damage dealers in voidwatch fights and thusly we're unable to utilize High Jump to say remove hate from a BLM that pulls too much hate since they're in a different party in the alliance. Furthermore the mage will probably be way out of range, unless the distance for high jump is like 15-20'.
Perhaps a implementation of High Jump to make it more worthwhile than before is making it Stun/lower target's accuracy/flash/interrupt spells with greater frequency, or something of the sort. The reason being that since 2005 I have NEVER used Super Jump during Spirit Surge to reduce the enmity of the person behind me in my party, nor have I ever heard of an account of any other DRG doing so either. Even if it removed half of their enmity, it's a very rare condition and is difficult to use with having to align myself with the player who has unwanted hate and the target, especially because when people have hate they tend to run away or kite.
Remove Petrify would allow us to heal Petrification status on other subjobs besides /WHM though! /SCH doesn't learn Stona because it's level 50. I was hoping we would get it so that I can sub RDM or BLU and still remove petrify on others.
Just gonna post this here since people seem to be focusing on pointless petrify arguments. I'm assuming most people will want to remove doom before any other ailment. As it is right now, it looks like plague/disease will take priority.
Also the enmity removal greatly benefits RNG. I'm not sure why Ophannus is saying that you need to be in the same party when TA+High Jump does work to remove enmity at the current time. Trick attack works on any alliance member. Decoy shot also works on any alliance member. It's quite possible that the enmity removal will not work on alliance members, but it would be rather strange to basically nerf an aspect of DRG that they already currently have with TA.
Sorry if this was worded weird...
Basically, whenever you are activating Healing Breath (i.e. by using a spell of some sort), you are putting a hold on your damage output. Therefore, the more you use Healing Breath, the less overall damage you will be dealing. This is all that paragraph meant. Not that dragoon's damage was being nerfed because of Healing Breath.
I really don't understand the reasoning of this. DRG is getting improved HP, eva and parry because... They're stopping to have their wyvern heal. I'm a career DRG and I really find this reasoning to not make any sense. DRGs wouldn't be pulling more hate from healing more often, to cause them to need better defenses. Also the amount of time swapping into either HB proccing gear, or HB potency gear doesn't slow you down enough to warrant more defenses. If anything, the DRG's more HP actually just helps the soloing DRG stay alive longer simply because they can HB sooner instead of later. Also DRGs and wyverns don't generate very much hate from HB.
The period of time that a DRG spends using HB really does not significantly drop a DRG's damage output. We're not talking about a DRG putting a stop to everything to cast "Cure IV", but using either Restoring Breath or casting fast spell (and low on MP) like Dia. So the amount of time where the DRG is actually not attacking is usually no longer than half a second at most.
The increased HP, eva and parry really should be there because of the shortened jump recasts, not for the DRG slowing down for a split second to HB. DRGs will be jumping and WSing significantly more in the same period of time as before, causing them to pull more hate. Making it so that they need to have better defenses because their offensive capability has increased, not their healing ability.
I think their logic is "We want to give Dragoon better innate defenses because it sacrifices some amount of offense for some amount of utility (the amount varying by support job). Defensive abilities are also a form of utility, so we're enhancing those to go along with this theme."
Which makes sense but moves Dragoon more towards Dancer and Blue Mage territory. I think most Dragoon players would prefer MOAR! POWAH! instead.
Hopefully the'll adjust our damage output from weapon skills too. Frustrating seeing a Corsair which is a support-type job doing 2300-2700 damage Last Stands but my Stardiver/Drakesbanes have a hard time breaking 1800.
It does not take half a second to cast a 1 second cast unless you swap for fast cast gear aaaaaand HB gear which would take a toll on haste TP gear and ultimately DPS.
Maybe not by a whole lot but if you want to get technical the statement is true.
Now if this is their logic then i hope they also look into DRK's issue with Casting vs DPS :)
I'm loving the extra little defense boosts, all boosts are welcome, though a part of me is worried SE will now say "Well the reason you arent a more damaging job is because you have better defenses than the rest." or something along those lines. Its very obvious that DRG lacks behind the strongest DD's in the game right now, and I think a lot of us would still prefer that gap to be smaller (ways to strength our WS! ways to raise our attack in general!)
So what, are you saying you don't want to have better stats? Who cares what the reasoning is? You're getting more HP, evasion and parry. Why would you complain about that?Quote:
I really don't understand the reasoning of this. DRG is getting improved HP, eva and parry because... They're stopping to have their wyvern heal. I'm a career DRG and I really find this reasoning to not make any sense.
The reasoning, to be more specific, is that in order to help you take a little bit less damage so you don't need to waste as much time using healing breath. That combined with a stronger healing breath means less wasted time casting a spell to use it, and therefore less DPS lost. Get it now?
Good update but SE fails realize with abyssea and vw the 20 minute recast timer on call wyvern still doesnt cut it even with steady wing and enhanced wyverns defense. Dragoon needs its pet as much as puppetmaster who gets duex ex automata and beastmaster gets a 5 minute recast timer. All these new breaths dont help when your waiting 18 minutes cause a ga/ja spell 1 shot ur wyvern
Also the wyvern breaths proc system in voidwatch is horrid. You get all the right jobs for procs and you see extremely weak to wyvern ice breath and all you do is the same breath over and over. Then your pet dies trying to proc and your timers at 15 minutes............
Honestly I could careless about more evasion and parry on DRG. You shouldn't be tanking anything. If you pull hate, you need to shed it. If you can't shed it, 10 evasion and 15 parry isn't going to save you. DRG was never and will never be a job that is meant to be tanking on any level. It has always been a job that does great damage, while supporting the rest of the alliance, without holding hate. If you're not holding hate, you're not getting hurt. If you're not getting hurt, then you having higher defensive stats for doing healing breaths makes no sense.
Yes, "moar iz butter" but that's not what I'm addressing. The reasoning of giving DRG more defensive stats because DRG has a better Healing Breath and status curing breaths is pretty flimsy. I'm saying that if DRG's getting better stats so that it takes less damage, it should be because they're better DDs now, not because they can spend half a second to HB and generate hardly any enmity from it.
Hello ! Thanks for this update, this is really great ! Lot of people ask for more damage output and I can really undurstand that. I feel so sad when I remember the lvl 50=>60 period, when I was the most powerfull DD of the party (or alliance sometimes). It's not like that anymore.
We can WS really often. That sure. But our WS are very weak and don't have any debuff capacity like SAM. So yes, we can spam WS, but we still are mediocre DD.
I think the way to improve our WS damage is too make some adjustement on Elemental Breath. Why can we have Elemental breath IV ? Like Healing Breath ? Also the Smiting Breath ability is almost useless. The damage of my Wyvern breath don't worst the time I spend to cast it.
A much stronger Elemental breath could raise the damage output of WS for /sam or /war. And make a stronger difference beetween offensive and defensive Wyvern. (My English is not perfect, I'm sorry for that).