Stop Player Bashing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

Yep. I'm a lost cause. Now stop bashing me.

(IE: saying I'm a bad player and calling me a moron... maybe not you, but others have).

---

FACT: saying you are a bad player is not bashing you, it's simply stating a FACT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

I don't know many people who want to see others do better with anything in life if they don't like that person. You must be special if you honestly feel that way.

---

Apparently not, since i've seen numerous people here insult you, and still offer you advice to help you improve yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

FACT: saying you are a bad player is not bashing you, it's simply stating a FACT.

---

No, it's an opinion Rog based on very little fact. They don't know me on the game, they haven't seen me play on the game. all they know is what gear I wear and they say I'm a bad player. That's not a fact. And the fact that most of you have that horribly confused makes me question the true intelligence of said players outside of their little game mechanics world.

its not even a point of principles anymore its just plain stubbornness

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

No, it's an opinion Rog based on very little fact. They don't know me on the game, they haven't seen me play on the game. all they know is what gear I wear and they say I'm a bad player. That's not a fact. And the fact that most of you have that horribly confused makes me question the true intelligence of said players outside of their little game mechanics world.

---

You've told us enough to know that you are a bad player. Regardless, stating such is NOT bashing you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

You've told us enough to know that you are a bad player. Regardless, stating such is NOT bashing you.

---

Well, I take it as such. Obviously, my understanding of the English language is different than yours. One of these days, I'll find some kind of mistake you make to call you a bad player over and see how offended you get. I bet it won't feel very good.

"You've told us enough to know that you are a bad player."

My response to that is a big hearty F You, btw. As nice as you've been with many of your other posts, that one was shitty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

Well, I take it as such. Obviously, my understanding of the English language is different than yours. One of these days, I'll find some kind of mistake you make to call you a bad player over and see how offended you get. I bet it won't feel very good.

---

Everyone makes mistakes, that's fine. I'm no different. I make mistakes all the time. That isn't what makes someone a bad player. You are a bad player because you intentionally go out of your way to do poorly, even though you know exactly what you need to do to improve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

Well, I take it as such. Obviously, my understanding of the English language is different than yours. One of these days, I'll find some kind of mistake you make to call you a bad player over and see how offended you get. I bet it won't feel very good.

---

I don't think you can handle criticism at all. Constructive or otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

"You've told us enough to know that you are a bad player."

My response to that is a big hearty F You, btw. As nice as you've been with many of your other posts, that one was shitty.

---

That's ok. I'm not here to be nice. I'm here to have fun, to educate those that know less than me, and hopefully learn a thing or two from those that know more than me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

Everyone makes mistakes, that's fine. I'm no different. I make mistakes all the time. That isn't what makes someone a bad player. You are a bad player because you intentionally go out of your way to do poorly, even though you know exactly what you need to do to improve.

---

I do not go intentionally go out of my way to do poorly. I'm just seriously done with people like you. I might as well be done with these forums. I bet you're so hardcore, your mom brings you a bedpan to shit in like in that South Park WoW episode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HFX7686

I don't think you can handle criticism at all. Constructive or otherwise.

---

You're welcome to believe that. I've already told you I don't care what you think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

That's ok. I'm not here to be nice. I'm here to have fun, to educate those that know less than me, and hopefully learn a thing or two from those that know more than me.

---

Guess that change of M.O. will help in your last bastion of forum hope? Not making it sound negative, just missed reading some of your posts on other forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

I do not go intentionally go out of my way to do poorly. I'm just seriously done with people like you. I might as well be done with these forums. I bet you're so hardcore, your mom brings you a bedpan to shit in like in that South Park WoW episode.

---

You do though. Between not using haste gear, not using <stpt>, trying to balance a tp/ws set without swapping gear, etc, you really do.

I wish, my mom stays out of the basement :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loir

Guess that change of M.O. will help in your last bastion of forum hope? Not making it sound negative, just missed reading some of your posts on other forums.

---

What? What change? That has always been my motivation for posting on both alla and bg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

You do though. Between not using haste gear, not using <stpt>, trying to balance a tp/ws set without swapping gear, etc, you really do.

I wish, my mom stays out of the basement :(

---

I actually use <stpt> when I'm using my collaborator/accomplice macros. My whm is only level 45 and haven't played it in months. I have no other reason to use <stpt>. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to balance a tp/ws set up without swapping gear. I think Fondle is right. I think you guys really take the gear portion of this game way too seriously that you call people bad players over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

I actually use <stpt> when I'm using my collaborator/accomplice macros. My whm is only level 45 and haven't played it in months. I have no other reason to use <stpt>. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to balance a tp/ws set up without swapping gear. I think Fondle is right. I think you guys really take the gear portion of this game way too seriously that you call people bad players over it.

---

What? You said you weren't aware of it earlier.

There is something wrong with trying to balance a tp+ws set. They require vastly different gear, and it is impossible to get a reasonable set that is good for both. The only way to do even decent at either, is to use different sets for both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nepharite

Its like people using ace's/askar helm over w.turban back in the day.

---

W.Turban is 5% haste with +30 HP&MP while Ace's is 4% haste with +7ACC, +4STR, and -7EVA. The ACC+7 was a good reason to obtain that piece for the sacrifice of 1% of haste. What's the point of haste if you can't hit? More chances to hit? 1% wasn't worth the difference. Askar Helmet is 4% Haste with +4STR/DEX/VIT. I can consider that a poor choice of wearing with effort to obtain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

On a limited budget you should always upgrade things in order of cost efficiency. If you have a kraken club, and an nq ruby ring, you're doing it wrong. However, if you don't have much money, a ruby ring may be a good piece, depending on situation, etc.

If there is something better than what you have, that is easier/cheaper to get, than you are doingitrong. Example: trying to get a dalmatica solely for the refresh, even though pluviale is much easier to get.

Basically, you want to get reasonable NQ gear (which is incredibly cheap), and then upgrade it as you are able to, starting with whatever gets you the most for the least gil/time. At no point should you ever downgrade anything. As long as your base sets are good, this will always be acceptable.

Base sets should be pretty simple: tp should be haste > acc/da > atk > etc. Ws sets should take advantage of appropriate modifiers, and/or atk+acc, as appropriate.

---

You never know, they may have gotten lucky enough to own a Kraken Club as a casual player, lol. (Even though I know a party doing that BCNM wouldn't allow someone to keep such an expensive piece for one person unless the party made a deal or the current owner became untrustworthy.) I never considered Dalmatica as a very good item in my opinion, so I'll give you that. And loading up on WS modifiers should be a given too. But you brought up TP>ACC when I believe you should have enough ACC, like I was implying earlier in this post, where you hit 80-100% of the time, then load up on haste.

Sorry that I disagreed with some of the examples, but I am more understanding of what was meant when you said "intelligent" gear. Guess as long as teaching others how to properly gear themselves is understood, they are informed and can make their own decisions based on what is actually beneficial.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

What? You said you weren't aware of it earlier.

There is something wrong with trying to balance a tp+ws set. They require vastly different gear, and it is impossible to get a reasonable set that is good for both. The only way to do even decent at either, is to use different sets for both.

---

I said I wasn't aware of <stal>. Go back and look if you don't believe me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JagerForrester

You never know, they may have gotten lucky enough to own a Kraken Club as a casual player, lol.

---

Of course. However if they don't sell it, then they are doinitrong. Getting a drop, and then not selling it is exactly the same as buying it. In either case you have x gil less than you could have if you either didn't buy the item, or if you sold it after getting the drop.

Quote:

---

But you brought up TP>ACC when I believe you should have enough ACC, like I was implying earlier in this post, where you hit 80-100% of the time, then load up on haste.

---

I was trying to give a general rule of thumb. If your acc is low, then yes, acc can in fact beat haste.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

I said I wasn't aware of <stal>. Go back and look if you don't believe me.

---

I'll take your word for it. It's ok though, you can just replace <stpt> with <stal> in my last post, and it will apply.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JagerForrester

W.Turban is 5% haste with +30 HP&MP while Ace's is 4% haste with +7ACC, +4STR, and -7EVA. The ACC+7 was a good reason to obtain that piece for the sacrifice of 1% of haste. What's the point of haste if you can't hit? More chances to hit? 1% wasn't worth the difference. Askar Helmet is 4% Haste with +4STR/DEX/VIT. I can consider that a poor choice of wearing with effort to obtain.


You never know, they may have gotten lucky enough to own a Kraken Club as a casual player, lol. (Even though I know a party doing that BCNM wouldn't allow someone to keep such an expensive piece for one person unless the party made a deal or the current owner became untrustworthy.) I never considered Dalmatica as a very good item in my opinion, so I'll give you that. And loading up on WS modifiers should be a given too. But you brought up TP>ACC when I believe you should have enough ACC, like I was implying earlier in this post, where you hit 80-100% of the time, then load up on haste.

Sorry that I disagreed with some of the examples, but I am more understanding of what was meant when you said "intelligent" gear. Guess as long as teaching others how to properly gear themselves is understood, they are informed and can make their own decisions based on what is actually beneficial.

---

And this here is a perfect example of gear OPINIONS that don't make people bad players. Just as he said, people need ACC, otherwise haste does no good if they can't hit the mobs. I mean, somebody could have a great informative post about how haste mechanics work. But if everybody on the server all wore the same exact gear, this game would be boring as hell in many ways. That doesn't make me a moron, stupid, an idiot, or a bad player for not doing things a certain way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

And this here is a perfect example of gear OPINIONS that don't make people bad players. Just as he said, people need ACC, otherwise haste does no good if they can't hit the mobs. I mean, somebody could have a great informative post about how haste mechanics work. But if everybody on the server all wore the same exact gear, this game would be boring as hell in many ways. That doesn't make me a moron, stupid, an idiot, or a bad player for not doing things a certain way.

---

He said that if people need accuracy then they can sacrifice the haste. But if you don't have a problem with the accuracy then go with the haste. That isn't an opinion, just another math equation.

Your argument against wearing haste gear is now reduced to not wanting everyone to look the same?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HFX7686

He said that if people need accuracy then they can sacrifice the haste. But if you don't have a problem with the accuracy then go with the haste. That isn't an opinion, just another math equation.

Your argument against wearing haste gear is now reduced to not wanting everyone to look the same?

---

Uh, not exactly. But if you had it your way, everybody probably would look the same so everybody plays the same, everybody is happy, everybody is whatever... Yeah. Ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

Uh, not exactly. But if you had it your way, everybody probably would look the same so everybody plays the same, everybody is happy, everybody is whatever... Yeah. Ok.

---

There's a reason so many people use the same gear: Because it is the best.

I think part of the problem is we have a mixture of people from alla, ffxiah, and bg. Those three places have very different posting styles... it may take some time for us to develop a style for the official forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshi

I think part of the problem is we have a mixture of people from alla, ffxiah, and bg. Those three places have very different posting styles... it may take some time for us to develop a style for the official forums.

---

lol, I think the problem is most people don't realize beck is just bored/trolling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshi

I think part of the problem is we have a mixture of people from alla, ffxiah, and bg. Those three places have very different posting styles... it may take some time for us to develop a style for the official forums.

---

I can't speak for ffxiah, but alla and bg weren't really that different. This is pretty much par for the course of both bg and alla.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshi

I think part of the problem is we have a mixture of people from alla, ffxiah, and bg. Those three places have very different posting styles... it may take some time for us to develop a style for the official forums.

---

But I post on all three!

I even post on KI (if someone posts in mnk forums) and wiki from time to time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

and wiki from time to time!

---

I enjoy watching idiots make fools of themselves as much as the next guy, but i don't think i could manage that :(

Lol I post on xiah and read bg... I avoid alla because it seems to often be full of bad info. It seemed to me that alla was a bit more friendly and accepting of strange ideas and casual players with this kind of bizarre subculture for forum ratings whereas bg is much more about math and neat things you can do in game and xiah is just a post whatever you feel like kind of place.

Quote:

---

Stop Player Bashing

---

I agree, I'm getting sick of people that start off with name calling as if that makes a point. I also wish some people wouldn't flip out over nothing and start using CAPS and rant like I've seen happen.

It reminds me of old threads on fan sites where one thread has an ok but not spectacular build being criticized by a player with the best of the best, and then later some player using absolute crap or half naked gets given some advice then rants for hours about "the elitists" because he thinks its the same thing.


And if my above text has somehow offended or insulted anyones intelligence in ways I can't comprehend, there is this handy ignore feature; you can use that and never see my text again and then we can't possibly bother each other.

For people who have seriously crossed the line, there is a report feature. It's that small triangle with an exclamation point at the bottom left of each post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoshi

I avoid alla because it seems to often be full of bad info. It seemed to me that alla was a bit more friendly and accepting of strange ideas and casual players

---

Maybe years ago, but not really anymore.

Ahh I see. I haven't tried to use alla since maybe 2007... My favorite forum was ki and once that died I pretty much lurked at bg.

Yeah, if you go back earlier than that, alla was actually pretty terrible with the false information, etc. Now it's really not much different than bg. Quality of information is more or less the same. New information is overall definitely quicker on bg, but it always gets reposted to alla, without the 500 page threads.

Oh I see... I'll have to start lurking on alla as well then ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vinc

lol

Itt: facts = opinions.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

I really think you're one of those people who just like to "hear yourself talk".

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

So you're the one the OP is trying to protect.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

Tired of hearing yourself talk yet? I bet you make yourself laugh.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HFX7686

That's really stupid.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

Btw, please don't let us keep you up all night. It's important to get a good nights sleep before class.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HFX7686

I think you're a lost cause.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

You've told us enough to know that you are a bad player.

---

All of this in a thread that was supposed to encourage people to be nice and respectful to others. Something that everyone agreed upon when signing up, something that's mentioned loud and clear (and twice) in the General Forum Rules and shouldn't even have to be discuss. Something that actually can't be discussed, yet people are still going on about it.

I would seriously like some moderator intervention sometimes, some of the comments people have made (both in this and countless other threads) clearly violate the rule about being respectful to others and I don't see a reason why this should be tolerated. And no, I don't mean everyone whom I've quoted above, although none of these posts were nice, but some of them were downright insulting. And that should not stand in this official forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

That's ok. I'm not here to be nice.

---

Clearly. However, whatever your intentions for posting here are, it is still a rule that makes no exceptions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

However if they don't sell it, then they are doinitrong.

---

There is no doing it wrong in this regard. While there might be a way to deal more damage with the amount of money you have (both in cash and potential), that is not what's right or wrong. People play for different reasons, I once geared just to see how many attacks I could do in the least amount of time. On PLD. That was neither efficient nor effective and I was very well aware of that fact. However it was what I wanted to try. When I asked people what the lowest delay weapons were a PLD could use people immediately assumed it was "wrong" and started telling me what I should use instead. People always make assumptions about a person's intentions and values and most commonly identify them with their own. But that's not respecting my own decisions, I didn't impose them on anyone, I didn't assume they were "right". So who are you to tell me it's wrong how I wanna play?

I know you meant wrong in the sense of getting most out of your job for the potential money you have, but as I said, that's not what everyone cares about. What if someone just wants to feel like posessing something extraordinary, something that not many others have? Judging from what I read from you so far I'm pretty sure you'd immediately consider them needy and irrational. But what if they're just after achievements? Having decent overall gear or having one exceptional piece of gear and leave the rest out, and slowly build it up to meet their potential. What's wrong with that if that's how people wanna play?

And even if it was true, if they were really needy and irrational, pointing it out would belittle their feelings. Unless they go around and start telling everyone how great of a melee they are with their Kraken Club and 117 club skill, no one should look down on them for playing how they do.

You're making a general assumption, saying if people don't sell it they're wrong. That's not just false but also extremely unhelpful. I don't know why people would even say that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rog

FACT: saying you are a bad player is not bashing you, it's simply stating a FACT.

---

Whether it's being a fact or you pointing out it's a fact is very different. Naturebeckles never once assumed she was a great or even good player, she stated a few things about her gear and that she didn't know about <stal>. Even if the things she posted weren't satisfactory to some people, pointing out she is a bad player (which you really can't tell from what she has said) without any motivation (other than them disagreeing with you) is bashing. It is disrespectful and belittling of their abilities.

I really believe a moderator needs to step up and remind people of being nice occasionally, and intervene when it gets too far (which has already happened imo). This forum is already starting to go down the BG path, a gathering place for elitists who care about nothing but being right, ironically even when they're wrong. And that's not a place I'd like to see the official forums end up in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

And if my above text has somehow offended or insulted anyones intelligence in ways I can't comprehend, there is this handy ignore feature; you can use that and never see my text again and then we can't possibly bother each other.

---

Wait, what.... there is such a beautiful feature?

I would just like to come in here and give my opinion on the matter, as probably the majority of my posts are going to be considered "bashing somebody".

Pointing out flaws in logic, no matter how you do it, can be perceived as rude or disrespectful. It can't be avoided, especially when people claim their opinions on a matter are correct when all other evidence says they are not. On top of that, said people will go around spreading their opinions as fact or otherwise spread false information. That right there is the real crime, and if nothing is done about it then where would we be?

I, myself will explain something in a calm matter, as respectful as possible once. If the person continues to argue their obviously false opinions/views with me then I will degenerate into throwing insults eventually. So that is probably where most of my "bashing" comes from. It doesn't start out that way, but will get there eventually if people are being retarded.

Unfortunately there is no cure for stupidity, you can only point it out when it happens, otherwise people walk around thinking they are, well, not stupid. While there is nothing wrong with that in of itself, when they start presenting facts or opinions as correct when they are clearly incorrect, that is where I draw the line and have to say something.

EDIT: Apologizing in advance if that made little sense, late, tired, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuishen

Pointing out flaws in logic, no matter how you do it, can be perceived as rude or disrespectful. It can't be avoided, especially when people claim their opinions on a matter are correct when all other evidence says they are not. On top of that, said people will go around spreading their opinions as fact or otherwise spread false information. That right there is the real crime, and if nothing is done about it then where would we be?

I, myself will explain something in a calm matter, as respectful as possible once. If the person continues to argue their obviously false opinions/views with me then I will degenerate into throwing insults eventually. So that is probably where most of my "bashing" comes from. It doesn't start out that way, but will get there eventually if people are being retarded.

Unfortunately there is no cure for stupidity, you can only point it out when it happens, otherwise people walk around thinking they are, well, not stupid. While there is nothing wrong with that in of itself, when they start presenting facts or opinions as correct when they are clearly incorrect, that is where I draw the line and have to say something.

---

I don't disagree with that (although no one in this thread, for example, deserved it), but if that's the case and they don't wanna learn, report it to the mods. Excerpt from the General Forum Rules:

- Please do not post false, fabricated and/or fictitious information. It is unconstructive and will only confuse others. Please be careful with what you post and keep in mind that your words can affect others more than you may expect.

If someone is blatantly posting false information, that is indeed a violation of the forum rules, and as such should be dealt with by moderators, not other posters. Or well, it can be dealt with by them as well, as long as they adhere to the rules themselves. People shouldn't have to feel the need to resort to vigilante justice, which is why I encourage a stronger moderator involvement in here.

On the matter though, many of the things that have been mentioned in here are, in fact, opinion and not wrong or right.

I'm 60% sure that most of what I was referring to doesn't fall under that category, and the other 40% is not having faith that the mods will do anything constructive, given the track record with GMs and FFXI.