Dancer Suggestions: Round II

In all honesty it wouldn't seem particularly broken or unbalanced to have a Flourish that causes Dispel, of course it can get resisted just like Violent Flourish. I imagine it to be very similar to that one, physical accuracy for the hit to land, magical accuracy for the dispel effect to occur.
Altough that would kinda break consistancy with Flourishes... all 3 groups have 3 flourish inside, making so one of those groups has 4 would make the OCD in me cry!

PUP already has a mana-free dispel that's pretty effective btw, without any particular restrictions.

I want Wild Flourish to take priority over skillchain properties from weapons so I can land it in Voidwatch without "having no effect" or making everyone turn around. The only time I get to proc with this is when it is white.

I wont annoy you today Asymptotic, at least not a lot. I don't agree with split timers BUT some of the other Ideas in this thread are tempting! On a sidenote: ever thought we should get Portia's 2H ? And Lilisettes Dagger Stance lol....

Im curious as to what SE expects us to solo at this point. Most content at this point that actually matters short of currency farming is much too hard for dnc to solo, unless you intend to give us the boost nessecary to do so, which I highly doubt seeing as ppl find dnc to somehow gain a bit of over-poweredness from even the slightest boost. So if you would be so kind as to specify on what you intend on us soloing that would be great, so I can not get my hopes up in assuming that one day you will realize that we are in need of the nessecary boost to bring dnc out of the solo only job class(Would love dnc to be wanted more for VW and other large scale battles like sch has now become).

Halle-frickin'-lujah! Fan Dance is gonna decrease waltz recast times? To heck with saber dance, I'm going fan 5/5!

Yeah, the ability that kills half of your support ability (no sambas) and increases your enmity! Saber 5/5 will still be standard due to Etoile+2.

Interesting question here, because on reflection, it's not quite clear to me, especially knowing that this has been translated: When saber dance increases the "effect duration" of sambas, does that mean:

a) The "samba" effect lasts longer on the DNC, or
b) The "daze" effect lasts longer on the target?

I suspect it is the former, but the latter could have some interesting possibilities.

We would like to assume #1, but you never know how SE will botch things, Wesa!

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Originally Posted by Wesa

Interesting question here, because on reflection, it's not quite clear to me, especially knowing that this has been translated: When saber dance increases the "effect duration" of sambas, does that mean:

a) The "samba" effect lasts longer on the DNC, or
b) The "daze" effect lasts longer on the target?

I suspect it is the former, but the latter could have some interesting possibilities.

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Sorry for the confusion! The adjustment is a), the duration of the "samba" effect will last longer on the DNC, not the targets daze effect. ^^

So then the question on my mind right now is: When will the 96-99 JA's for Dnc (and pretty much every other job aside from Blu and a handful of other jobs) be implimented. The roadmap lists a handful of jobs that are getting particular adjustments, but no word on new abilities other than SMN getting Cait Sith.

I know they don't usually put JA/Spell implimentation on the Roadmaps but considering how long it's been since the 99 cap increase and how few jobs got any new abilities I really do hope that we won't have to wait until 2013 to see the non-merit level-up abilities. My boyfriend is a Blu so it's been a bit of a bitter subject haha...


Also where is that Ternary Flourish usability growth/gear we were told about in October?

It's sitting in the corner with the Pet: Treasure Hunter+ gear.

I got to thinking about some changes to help dnc performance in vw/end-game settings. I would like to see more AoE buffs in regards to atk boost, dbl atk, crit rate, acc boost. I am fully aware that the steps we have give a majority of those boost, which I still believe as dnc main our steps should be a bit more potent than /dnc, but i digress. I just want to be able to further boost my parties dmg rate and maybe even add some dmg reduction moves. I dont expect these abilities to be too potent but I do want them to be easily noticable by eye if you understand what I mean. I think someone brought up the conversation of aura effects for dnc, but SE said that auras cant be over-written. For the most part even if a mob applies an effect such as atk dwn for example it would just reduce the potency of the arua till the effect was removed. So the issue of it not being able to be over-written is a moot point. What you could also do is potentially make this a alliance wide effect and stack with multiple dnc, something like cor and rolls. One problem that i am seeing here though is that auras (as we have seen with the vw bodies) have a small affect radius and could cause an issue if making a alliance wide effect unless you slightly made the radius larger. These auras can be put in one category like all our other abilities and be limited to one up at a time. The trade off for these dances is, of course, tp and possibly have a base duration of sambas without duration boost gear. The duration would leave room for adding gear similar to samba gear. Adding abilities like these would be a much welcomed improvement to the dnc arsenal and putting it in its role of a melee support job by not only improving its own performance but also improving the rest of the parties performance like we were made to do, thats our job to support our party while adding a bit more dps in the mix. Please consider this SE I think most ppl will agree on these ideas and feel that these will fit the dnc role perfectly as well.


P.S- I know cor rolls dont go alliance wide i was just using them as an example for effect stacking.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Contrecorps: As long as you are not the center of attention, you expend finishing moves to reduce the amount of damage you take. (Recast 5:00, Duration 5:00 or until you are the top of the enmity list.)

When taking damage from an area of effect attack, this "stance" would strip the Dancer of Finishing Moves and reduce the damage taken by some percentage depending on the number of finishing moves remaining. If the Dancer takes hate the effect would wear off immediately. I'd think it would be something like 15% per finishing move (75% for a full 5). Obviously only a Dancer with Terpsichore could keep up with the demands of an extremely AoE-heavy fight this way, so an ability like this would have the added bonus of adding viability to that weapon. This ability would also force the Dancer to manage their enmity quite carefully as to not remove the effect by taking hate, as well as make very smart decisions regarding the timing and usage of finishing moves.

This is a pretty radical and new idea, but I think it's a great solution that would add new aspects to the Dancer's role in many situations. It would also go great with the TP draining ability that gives party members an effect, because it would allow the DNC to much more safely keep this up. I don't think it's overpowered because other classes which support can keep themselves safe by just staying out of range. A Dancer simply does not have that option.

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If you don't mind, I'd like to have a small discussion with you about this proposed ability.

I like the idea you're going for when it comes to this ability, but it seems to lack some balance to it. Dancer in this "mode" could effectively mitigate at a full 5 Finishing Moves practically any and all damage coming towards them. It's not hard to continually stack Finishing Moves in most situations unless Step Accuracy against the mob you're fighting is a major factor even without a Terpsichore. With that and the notion that less damage taken means less waltzes and less enmity gained overall, this ability seems to take a turn from aiding a Dancer's already well-padded survival skills to making them impossible to kill so long as the circumstances are met, especially with any Damage taken gear stacked onto the build.

It's a great idea, especially in a magic damage situation where Dancer's will usually eat dirt faster than most front-lines, but it seems a little too overpowered for practical use with a five minute duration on a five minute timer. Perhaps lowering the percentage it removes or decreasing the duration a bit?

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Suggestions for Job Abilities

[SIZE="5"]Something Completely New![/SIZE]

The following two abilities are designed to give use to some of the flourishes that we have mostly forgotten about as high-level Dancers. It's also aimed at solving the problem where one flourish in a category particularly outshines the others, preventing the others from seeing usage, ever. Perhaps breathing life into some of our old abilities is the key to solidifying the role of the class? I put them on a shared recast timer for balance concerns, but I think the 2nd ability will be much more popular than the first. Maybe separating them wouldn't be overpowered after all?

À ma guise Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with Glissade]
The next Flourish may be used without expending finishing moves.
** For finishing moves which can use differing numbers of finishing moves, it would use the lowest amount. It might be interesting to enhance this ability with a piece of equipment, adding one finishing move to the effect. The name means "As I please."

Glissade Dancer LV99 [Recast 5 minutes, shared with À ma guise]
The next Flourish may be used without resetting its category's recast timer.
** This ability would also give the other Flourishes III besides climactic some viability. It would open up a lot of possibilities. The name "Glissade" means to run two dance moves together in one fluid motion, so it's obviously meant to be used to combine Flourishes (Byrth pointed out that Striking/Climactic/Ternary are mutually exclusive, so they would have to be changed to not share the same buff slot, but I don't think that's too horrible of a fix to make?):

1.) Reverse ---> Step/No Foot Rise --> Building: would allow Dancers to buff the closing weapon skill of a solo skillchain.

2.) Ternary Flourish + Climactic Flourish --> This is pretty self-explanatory! Would certainly give a potential use to Ternary!

3.) Ternary Flourish + Striking Flourish --> Would result in a 4-hit attack, and allow enhancement from the Charis Casaque to the first and second hits. Also, then you wouldn't need to feel inclined to add a Quaternary Flourish. (Seriously, please don't give us a Quaternary Flourish)

5.) Reverse --> Step / No Foot Rise ---> Reverse Great for generating a large amount of TP very quickly, if needed.

6.) Wild Flourish --> Reverse Flourish --> Solo 2-step Skillchains. (Wild --> Evisceration --> Transfixion ---> Evisceration/Dancing Edge --> Distortion) etc.

There are countless other combinations, of course but I figured these were the ones best worth mentioning.

I have made my suggestions for the "TP-draining ability which gives party members some kind of effect" in the other suggestion thread multiple times, so I'm assuming Camate has already relayed that information :)

[SIZE="5"]Flourishes IV[/SIZE]

Since I'm assuming Flourishes III is over (seriously guys, It's over, time to move on!), we should start looking forward to Flourishes IV. Since Flourishes I were utility abilities, Flourishes II were self-enhancement abilities, and Flourishes III were aimed at increasing damage output, Flourishes IV should be party support abilities. Also, since it's Flourishes IV and presumably the last flourish category ever, I'm going to go crazy and put *4* flourishes here, one which is very silly, but could be fun.

Glittering Flourish: (3-5 Finishing Moves): Reduces the damage nearby party members take from a single magical attack. [Target: Self. Range: 20'] Reduces damage from the next magical attack by 30-40-50% (depending on number of finishing moves). Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits. (Recast 1:30) [PLEASE HAVE THE ANIMATION SHOWER THE PARTY WITH GLITTER]
Prismatic Flourish: (2-5 Finishing Moves): Restores MP to the target party member [Target -Party - Cannot target self]. 5-10-20-25% MP recovery (depending on the number of finishing moves). (Recast 2:00) Potential to enhance this amount with gear and/or merits.
Tactical Flourish: (1-5 Finishing Moves): Restores the target party member's TP [Target - Party - Cannot target self]. 10 -25 -50 - 75 - 100 TP depending on the number of finishing moves expended. (Recast 2:00)
Arcane Flourish: (1 Finishing Move): Imbues your next attack with forbidden and poorly understood magic. (Recast 30s? 1m?)

Arcane Flourish would have a very unhelpful description, just for kicks, really. It would double the damage of your next normal attack (would not double the damage of a weapon skill) and attempt to inflict a random status ailment from a predetermined list. A critical hit under Arcane's effects would inflict more powerful status ailments. I haven't decided what sort of additional effects would be attached to arcane, but you could consider: defense down, magic defense down, evasion down, magic evasion down, critical hit evasion down (for normal hits) and more powerful effects such as strong slow and paralyze for a critical hit. You could use climactic to guarantee one of the better effects.

These are just my ideas for Flourishes IV, but I'd like others to give some ideas too :D

[SIZE="5"]Addressing the Dangers of the Front Lines[/SIZE]

The best thing I could come up with is sort of a stance. I actually think it's pretty neat, so maybe you'll like the idea too? Of course, one of the problems with reducing the damage taken by a Dancer is that it's already a good soloist, so you'd have to make it an ability that doesn't work solo, and I designed this ability with that in mind.

Contrecorps: As long as you are not the center of attention, you expend finishing moves to reduce the amount of damage you take. (Recast 5:00, Duration 5:00 or until you are the top of the enmity list.)

When taking damage from an area of effect attack, this "stance" would strip the Dancer of Finishing Moves and reduce the damage taken by some percentage depending on the number of finishing moves remaining. If the Dancer takes hate the effect would wear off immediately. I'd think it would be something like 15% per finishing move (75% for a full 5). Obviously only a Dancer with Terpsichore could keep up with the demands of an extremely AoE-heavy fight this way, so an ability like this would have the added bonus of adding viability to that weapon. This ability would also force the Dancer to manage their enmity quite carefully as to not remove the effect by taking hate, as well as make very smart decisions regarding the timing and usage of finishing moves.

This is a pretty radical and new idea, but I think it's a great solution that would add new aspects to the Dancer's role in many situations. It would also go great with the TP draining ability that gives party members an effect, because it would allow the DNC to much more safely keep this up. I don't think it's overpowered because other classes which support can keep themselves safe by just staying out of range. A Dancer simply does not have that option.

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i like all of these

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Originally Posted by Andreah

If you don't mind, I'd like to have a small discussion with you about this proposed ability.

I like the idea you're going for when it comes to this ability, but it seems to lack some balance to it. Dancer in this "mode" could effectively mitigate at a full 5 Finishing Moves practically any and all damage coming towards them. It's not hard to continually stack Finishing Moves in most situations unless Step Accuracy against the mob you're fighting is a major factor even without a Terpsichore. With that and the notion that less damage taken means less waltzes and less enmity gained overall, this ability seems to take a turn from aiding a Dancer's already well-padded survival skills to making them impossible to kill so long as the circumstances are met, especially with any Damage taken gear stacked onto the build.

It's a great idea, especially in a magic damage situation where Dancer's will usually eat dirt faster than most front-lines, but it seems a little too overpowered for practical use with a five minute duration on a five minute timer. Perhaps lowering the percentage it removes or decreasing the duration a bit?

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It wears off as soon as you reach the top of the hate list (Contrecorps refers to the "corps" or "body" of a ballet - the backup dancers). It's very difficult for a Dancer to actually do anything and stay under the radar. We cap hate pretty quickly through auto-attacks.

As an extension, it would have no effect solo because you'd always be at the top of the hate list.