[Soap Box] {Lock On} & general charity shouts

Anyone paying for a chance to lot an item they want, or even paying in advance, is a moron.

Does anyone really use the Lock On translate term like this? I've never seen it used like that on Shiva, and it is a major abuse of the auto translate.

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Originally Posted by Toggles

Inb4 'you don't have to join the shout'

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Why do you ask the questions to which you know the answer?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Does anyone really use the Lock On translate term like this? I've never seen it used like that on Shiva, and it is a major abuse of the auto translate.

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On Sylph at least, lots of players use Lock On to mean that an item is not lottable, both English and Japanese speaking player's alike. I don't think that I would call it a major abuse of the auto-translate feature though.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

I have to say I have never heard of that happening, at least on my server. Whenever I've been doing a zone boss for w/e reason, and someone is there asking for win, I've invited them np, and I don't know anyone who's charged the person needing the win before inviting them. Agreeing with that part, if someone is standing there @ pop spot asking to join for win only, and get told they need to pay, that's a pretty shitty thing to do.

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I would like to introduce you to Malekith on the Asura server. He's constantly shouting for things like:
Ironclad Pulverizer {Atma of the Razed Ruins} {Do you need it?} Items reserved.
WAR NIN THF {Can I have it?} 50k Alliance spot for atma. Free for first WAR NIN and THF.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

I would like to introduce you to Malekith on the Asura server. He's constantly shouting for things like:
Ironclad Pulverizer {Atma of the Razed Ruins} {Do you need it?} Items reserved.
WAR NIN THF {Can I have it?} 50k Alliance spot for atma. Free for first WAR NIN and THF.

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Oh I'm aware, I wasn't really thinking so much of shouts, more of someone needing win and standing by pop spot asking groups for an invite just for the win, only to be told they want money for it. But yeah, those shouts you're referring to - eh, well, if people actually PAY for that then... Meh.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Does anyone really use the Lock On translate term like this? I've never seen it used like that on Shiva, and it is a major abuse of the auto translate.

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They occasionally use it on Bismarck as well. It's usually a X if taken, and O if open.

the text is so small.. why..

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Originally Posted by noodles355

"My group is retarded enough to think that this tool is a product of the windower team".

How about you take a mintue to re-read my post:

THIS IS NOT A WINDOWER PLUGIN.

WHAT YOU ALL WITNESSED WAS A PLAYER USING A DIFFERENT 3RD PARTY APPLICATION LIKE FFXIAPP OR WIZBOT.

You quoted me then tried to argue against me but didn't even apparantly read my post. My issue with your posts is that you accuse windower.net of offering plugins or services that are just not offered. In all cases what you saw was a player using a botting program like FFXIAPP or Wizbot. However, you slander Windower.net by suggesting this crap is available through them. It is not. You have done no research. You are starting trouble for no reason other than either 1) ignorance or 2) trolling. Sit down, shut up.

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Ok if we leave the method of cheating out of it can we agree that the playing field is not even it anyone is cheating? As in somehow folks can cheat to see mobs first or out pop folks?

As for locking things I don't mind if each person involved in the party is allowed to lock one item. However, when one person locks their item and invite other folks to fight over the rest of the drops it can be a lose lose for the multiple folks wanting the same item.

I remember joining shout groups and always being outbid by the same person. I'm not saying the guy was cheating but what is the chance he would win every seal that dropped in more than one group (six rare seals in a row)? I don't group with him if he is going for the same item as me.

I think if several folks are going for the same seals and its going to be a long group as in farming several pops, the drops should rotate so no one goes home empty handed after four plus hours.

I got super annoyed when I was in a group with a lot of folks from the same ls. I was going against one of their guys for seals and they promised to get mine after he got two. But after he got his seals the group broke up. To this day I won't group with any of them anymore. I can't trust them.

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Originally Posted by Neonii

I remember joining shout groups and always being outbid by the same person. I'm not saying the guy was cheating but what is the chance he would win every seal that dropped in more than one group (six rare seals in a row)? I don't group with him if he is going for the same item as me.

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hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaa

RNG

I've often asked this question, "who's the bigger moron, the moron that leads, or the moron that follows him?". It's the same thing with pay-to-win shouts. Despite the fact that I find the people who do that are unethical idiots, unfortunately they are the smart idiots. The bigger idiot is the one who actually pays for it.

In other words, the guy doing the shouting may be unethical, but the one who actually buys into it is a lazy fool. And there is a saying for that: "A fool and his money are soon parted".

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Originally Posted by Anethia

In other words, the guy doing the shouting may be unethical, but the one who actually buys into it is a lazy fool. And there is a saying for that: "A fool and his money are soon parted".

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Knowing how to spend the time you play in game and what your time is actually worth doesn't equate to "A fool and his money are soon parted". I'll pay a merc group 900k for 6 of a given +2 head/hands/legs/feet item I may need because I know in the time I spend to farm those same KIs and find the right jobs to do the given NM I would have made double that amount of gil if not more.

But feel free to tell yourself whatever you need to feel like you're better than me because you're getting stuff without using gil.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Knowing how to spend the time you play in game and what your time is actually worth doesn't equate to "A fool and his money are soon parted". I'll pay a merc group 900k for 6 of a given +2 head/hands/legs/feet item I may need because I know in the time I spend to farm those same KIs and find the right jobs to do the given NM I would have made double that amount of gil if not more.

But feel free to tell yourself whatever you need to feel like you're better than me because you're getting stuff without using gil.

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So your solution is to "get gill" and spend it all on things you can easily solo/duo? that indeed consititues a "fool and his money" i have almost every job caped out on +2 gear 10-12) and i didn't spend a single gill on either. and half of it i even duoed. that's a sad excuse and you know it. if you don't "have the time" to play this game then you should find something else to do. because that is all this game is, Time.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

So your solution is to "get gill" and spend it all on things you can easily solo/duo? that indeed consititues a "fool and his money" i have almost every job caped out on +2 gear 10-12) and i didn't spend a single gill on either. and half of it i even duoed. that's a sad excuse and you know it. if you don't "have the time" to play this game then you should find something else to do. because that is all this game is, Time.

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I'd love to know your secret for getting a guaranteed full 6 of a given +2 item from said NMs in less than 3 hours. Including KI farming and NM killing with a Duo.

Edit: Having time to play the game has nothing to do with finding the best use of said time. If in 3-4hour s I can gain 3-4 million gil spending 900k of said gil to get a +2 that I might have finished in the same amount of time and still having 2.1-3.1 million gil as a profit just seems like a better use of my time.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I'd love to know your secret for getting a guaranteed full 6 of a given +2 item from said NMs in less than 3 hours. Including KI farming and NM killing with a Duo.

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It's called knowing the right days to go and with right jobs, here is a hint: for best yellow procing chance, go on lightsday/darksday with a nin and whm, you will get the highest possible chance to proc yellow or. blm+dnc on other days. it's called careful planning. i duoed amalhuk on lightsday for example with nin+whm and proced yellow both times getting the 6/6 coins, of course it requires luck, but would that have happend on watersday? probably not, unless you got extreamly lucky and it was a nin proc, which has actually happend a few times.

it has worked well for me through most of my +2 low man farming, and during the days where my procing chances were lowest i would farm the KIs my self. i don't mind working for my stuff. oh and i also make gill in the process by npcing the junk in gold chests, so not only do i save gill, but i also add to it.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

It's called knowing the right days to go and with right jobs, here is a hint: for best yellow procing chance, go on lightsday/darksday with a nin and whm, you will get the highest possible chance to proc yellow or. blm+dnc on other days. it's called careful planning. i duoed amalhuk on lightsday for example with nin+whm and proced yellow both times getting the 6/6 coins, of course it requires luck, but would that have happend on watersday? probably not, unless you got extreamly lucky and it was a nin proc, which has actually happend a few times.

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Bolded the part that makes my method more practical. I zone, pay for drops, lot, and zone back out while having made more gil and wasted less time on luck because the merc group is usually doing 8-10+ of a given NM, brings all yellow procs for any day, and has a THF with TH 7.

Oh and did I mention I don't need to give my duo partner something beneficial this way, assuming it isn't a dualboxed character.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Bolded the part that makes my method more practical. I zone, pay for drops, lot, and zone back out while having made more gil and wasted less time on luck because the merc group is usually doing 8-10+ of a given NM, brings all yellow procs for any day, and has a THF with TH 7.

Oh and did I mention I don't need to give my duo partner something beneficial this way, assuming it isn't a dualboxed character.

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Ah right, you're correct, the obvious solution is to just throw gill at everything without lifting a finger (pun intended), i mean the entire point of this game is to just sit in town and shour "i got lots of gill, who wants to work for me while i do nothing" my apologies. after all, if you can't win, don't try. right?

Your method is not "practical" it's just being lazy. which is common.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

Ah right, you're correct, the obvious solution is to just throw gill at everything without lifting a finger (pun intended), i mean the entire point of this game is to just sit in town and shour "i got lots of gill, who wants to work for me while i do nothing" my apologies. after all, if you can't win, don't try. right?

Your method is not "practical" it's just being lazy. which is common.

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I don't think you know what practical means...

Your method:
1) Farm KIs needed to fight X NM 2 times
2) Go on a given time frame to better benefit Light/Dark Yellow !!
3) With Luck get a full +2 set from the given NM fights.

My method:
1) Make gil, much more gil than Merc group charges instead of farming KIs and personally fighting X NM.
2) Pay a group to give me better odds at items I want than your method.

Either way we're both working, just at different things, neither is being "lazy" as my gil doesn't grow on trees.

The big differences are:
You method gets you Yellow procs for 3 jobs when going on Light/Darkday.
Mine gets me all Yellow procs regardless of day and TH.

As I said my way is more practical.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Does anyone really use the Lock On translate term like this? I've never seen it used like that on Shiva, and it is a major abuse of the auto translate.

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Seen on Phoenix server though I have not yet seen JP using the term.. then again I don't stay around Jeuno long enough. :)

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I don't think you know what practical means...

Your method:
1) Farm KIs needed to fight X NM 2 times
2) Go on a given time frame to better benefit Light/Dark Yellow !!
3) With Luck get a full +2 set from the given NM fights.

My method:
1) Make gil, much more gil than Merc group charges instead of farming KIs and personally fighting X NM.
2) Pay a group to give me better odds at items I want than your method.

Either way we're both working, just at different things, neither is being "lazy" as my gil doesn't grow on trees.

The big differences are:
You method gets you Yellow procs for 3 jobs when going on Light/Darkday.
Mine gets me all Yellow procs regardless of day and TH.

As I said my way is more practical.

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You're method costs you gill and all you have to do is zone in and get the drops, my method gets me the drops without spending any gill. nothing in this game worth getting is "instant" why are you arguing time issues. in the end i keep all my gill for things that i can actually use gill wisly on liek crafting or really hard to get items that needs multiple crafts etc. you're just wasting gill on seals and +2 items..which i can never understand due to how easy it is to get. if you want to call it pratical that is great.

My point of this before it goes any further is, you are wasting gill on absurdly easy to get items.

Kind of like people who buy a scroll for 40k when a mob drops it 80% of the time, and all you have to do is go kill one,

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Originally Posted by Vortex

My point of this before it goes any further is, you are wasting gill on absurdly easy to get items.

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My point is you're wasting time getting absurdly easy to get items when you could make much more gil in the same amount of time.

Say your method got you 6 +2 items you need and made you 1mil in NPCables/Scrolls/PIs from random gold chests (I doubt you'd get anywhere near 1mil tbh outside of Heroes zones)
My method got me those same 6 +2 items and made me 2.1-3.1mil gil...

While I spent 900k that you didn't I also made 3-4 times the amount of gil leaving me at a 2-3 times profit of time to gil ratio compared to you.

As to the NM factor, well the first time I fight a NM its fun, the 2nd+ time I fight a NM its boring because I've already done it once. Do I fight NMs more than once? Sure, but that doesn't mean its practical.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

My point is you're wasting time getting absurdly easy to get items when you could make much more gil in the same amount of time.

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I can make 500k+ in 3-4 hours of farming only in abyssea, making gill is not a problem, so you can throw that part out. the diffrence is i don't waste it on dumb crap, like seals and +2 items.

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Say your method got you 6 +2 items you need and made you 1mil in NPCables/Scrolls/PIs from random gold chests (I doubt you'd get anywhere near 1mil tbh outside of Heroes zones)
My method got me those same 6 +2 items and made me 2.1-3.1mil gil...

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See above, this includes a vision zone. if you havnt noticed gill has lost alot of value latelty. so being "stinking rich" dosn't get you anywhere unless it's people like you who throw gill at anything to get everything. or making a relic, which i have no interest in. if i REALLY wanted to, the stuff i can duo people (like you) i can just get to pay millions, so IF i wanted to i can make about 3-5 mil multiple times a night, example i can duo rani, that alone right there is huge chunk of gill. thats IF i wanted, but i don't care.

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While I spent 900k that you didn't I also made 3-4 times the amount of gil leaving me at a 2-3 times profit of time to gil ratio compared to you.

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900k for a seals? unless it a set of 12x2-3 900 is a huge waste if you are paying for anything less then 12, so you also proved you over pay easily.

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As to the NM factor, well the first time I fight a NM its fun, the 2nd+ time I fight a NM its boring because I've already done it once. Do I fight NMs more than once? Sure, but that doesn't mean its practical.

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You're ratio isn't adding up in my case because i am quite comfy with low manning and as i said above i can make lots of gill if i really needed it that badly. so not only do i not waste gill on easy to get items, i can actually make more then you do in a shorter time, based on my exp with duing specific NMS. and my knowlegde of them, so once again, no your method is not practical, at least for me.

as i said, a fool and his money.

Who cares? He can just go do Dynamis and make more than 900k in 2 hours.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

900k for a seals? unless it a set of 12x2-3 900 is a huge waste if you are paying for anything less then 12, so you also proved you over pay easily.

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I've said +2s and have only been talking about +2s all along dunno where you're getting seals.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

You're ratio isn't adding up in my case because i am quite comfy with low manning and as i said above i can make lots of gill if i really needed it that badly. so not only do i not waste gill on easy to get items, i can actually make more then you do in a shorter time, based on my exp with duing specific NMS. and my knowlegde of them, so once again, no your method is not practical, at least for me.

as i said, a fool and his money.

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You said this:

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Originally Posted by Vortex

I can make 500k+ in 3-4 hours of farming only in abyssea, making gill is not a problem, so you can throw that part out. the diffrence is i don't waste it on dumb crap, like seals and +2 items.

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Quick question while you're farming for that 500k are you also killing the NMs required for the KIs to get to the NM for the +2s?

And I said I make 3-4 million in those same 3-4 hours, that's a difference of 2.5-3.5 million gil. Lets add in that 900k I "wasted" I'm still ahead 1.6-2.6 million gil over you... While I agree gil has little value it still has uses and my way gets me more of it while getting the items I want.

A fool parting with money while still walking away with more money than you got out of the same time frame with the same non-monetary rewards isn't really a fool.

I've fought every NM in Abyssea pardon me for not enjoying having to fight them over and over again, at least not all of them. I know strategies for them, some depend on luck, some depend on a lot of jobs, and some can't safely/consistently be duoed.

When a merc group can get you the items you need in a fraction of the time it would take you allowing you all that extra time to make more gil than they charge that is more practical. If you are morally opposed to take that route or just don't find it the fun way of acquiring said item(s) that's fine but has nothing to do with the overall practicality of a merc group.

Some people in this thread doesn't seem to understand exactly how money works.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I've said +2s and have only been talking about +2s all along dunno where you're getting seals.

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I guess i got that part mixed up considering neither are anywhere near difficult to get, nor worth wasting money on, my mistake on that. you also notice i said 12/12 when nothing actually needs 12 items, which i left in because i think it's funny and i don't know why i said that when most seals are 8/8 or 10/10 bodies.

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Quick question while you're farming for that 500k are you also killing the NMs required for the KIs to get to the NM for the +2s?

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No, i have been done with +2 farming for ages now, this is when i am doing mediocre stuff liek farmign dark rings or other augumented items, or hell even just farming something like an EE pop, it is not all in one zone,. and it depends on what im doing and why i was there in the 1st place.

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And I said I make 3-4 million in those same 3-4 hours, that's a difference of 2.5-3.5 million gil. Lets add in that 900k I "wasted" I'm still ahead 1.6-2.6 million gil over you... While I agree gil has little value it still has uses and my way gets me more of it while getting the items I want.

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Well good for you. my 900k stayed with me.

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A fool parting with money while still walking away with more money than you got out of the same time frame with the same non-monetary rewards isn't really a fool.

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You're spending gill on items not worth spending gill on, that imo is a fool. your view of it is obviously diffrent then mine, but to me, that is indeed a fool. or a sucker. take your pick.

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I've fought every NM in Abyssea pardon me for not enjoying having to fight them over and over again, at least not all of them. I know strategies for them, some depend on luck, some depend on a lot of jobs, and some can't safely/consistently be duoed.

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why do you play this then? all this game consists of is needless, nonestop grinding. of doing the same thing over and over again, you're doing something over and over to make that gill, and it is by the same defintion of fighting something over and over, unless somone is coming up to you handing you the gill. (we know what that is) only diffrence is i'm not spending any gill doing the same thing you are doing.

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When a merc group can get you the items you need in a fraction of the time it would take you allowing you all that extra time to make more gil than they charge that is more practical. If you are morally opposed to take that route or just don't find it the fun way of acquiring said item(s) that's fine but has nothing to do with the overall practicality of a merc group.

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There is that time thing again, seriously all this game is is TIME, weither it be by my working for my crap or you working for your gill to have others like me work for you to get you your gear. stop with the time factor because it is an irrelavent element to this dicussion, i doubt anyone just plays this game to stand in town and do nothing.

oh and no i do not find it fun giving somone money to do somethign i can easily do my self. so yea i am really opposed to this sort of thing, but to each his own. but thanks to people like you. i can also take advantage of making lots of gill by finding somone who will buy anything, such as your self. so really it works out in the end for both parts. you like spending gill, i like making it while saving as much as possible, to spend on things worth spending it on.

i don't care what you do with your gill honestly. but you'll have to agree that people pay insane, dumb prices for things not worth it, like vivid strap +1 selling for 8m+ and it's benefits are no where near worth that much, etc.

I don't think you understand how time = gil works. What exactly is worth wasting gil on? I mean heck I hope you craft all of your consumables or any of your non R/E gear because really they aren't "worth" wasting gil on... Oh and farm all of the items required for the synth because you'd be "wasting gil" if you don't farm the items. I can apply your logic to anything that doesn't make it practical logic.

The only real reason I play this game is to hang out with friends who don't actually live near me and help them with stuff they want to do, or team up and do something that sounds fun to all of us.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I don't think you understand how time = gil works. What exactly is worth wasting gil on? I mean heck I hope you craft all of your consumables or any of your non R/E gear because really they aren't "worth" wasting gil on... Oh and farm all of the items required for the synth because you'd be "wasting gil" if you don't farm the items. I can apply your logic to anything that doesn't make it practical logic.

The only real reason I play this game is to hang out with friends who don't actually live near me and help them with stuff they want to do, or team up and do something that sounds fun to all of us.

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I edited my last post at the end, you should understand now, this is just me personally.

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Originally Posted by Vortex

I edited my last post at the end, you should understand now, this is just me personally.

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I've actually known all along it was your personal opinions fueling your stance while my point was merely on practicality that's why i referenced a few times how the fun factor, moral factor, and even the value factor (don't think i mentioned this directly more implied) have nothing to do with practicality.

Personally I agree a lot of things have ridiculous prices for the actual benefit and somethings are very cheap in value (+2s offered by the merc group on my server falls into this category for me).

Calling someone a fool/moron/idiot etc. like the person I initially responded to did for making a practical decision annoys me because those insults are thrown around because of personal feelings and have nothing to do with the decision.

this argument reminds me of the days Rangers levelled woodworking to craf their arrows, mages levelled cooking to craft their drinks and so on... lol. Or fishermen who thought real fisher get their 10k moat carps on their own, and nowaday, real DD get their empyreands without breweing. lol. Fishing 10,000 carps teached you how to fish moat carps, nothing else. Killing 75 draguas tells you how to kill dragua, nothing else. Every abyssea NM gets boring after you killed it like 5 times.

Anyone serious about the game knows the most expensive parameter in the game is time, whether you are hardcor or not. What is my time worth? What's that other player's time worth? It depends on each individual. The best way to make money in the game atm for me is dynamis. I'm getting 300 coins ( 3millions) for 2 hours of my work and with 2 players + alts, so my time is worth: 1.5Million per hour.

Why would I bother camp sisyphus for example, and get one drop every 3 NMs with TH8 ( 1 hour) when I could do dynamis and buy 10 pops in the same time.

Why would a crafter gather all his mats through farming, mining, fishing, etc, when they are massively available on the AH?NPC vendors and he can easilly fund his craft with X BCNM?

Its called economy. One player finds its profitable to farm random abyssea POP items and AH them at the end of the day, and another player is really happy to buy it from them because his abyssea time is too precious to waste it farming. Etc.

Buying r/e item/titles/etc has been part off FF economy for long ( BB items yo).

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Some people in this thread doesn't seem to understand exactly how money works.

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I have to wonder if these people also grow all of their food in their gardens and raise sheep to turn their wool into clothing. You know, wouldn't want to waste money on things you can do yourself!

It also reminds me of the people who got angry at crafters for buying craft items instead of farming them themselves.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

I have to wonder if these people also grow all of their food in their gardens and raise sheep to turn their wool into clothing. You know, wouldn't want to waste money on things you can do yourself!

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Yeah, specialization is overrated. It's not like that's what enabled human societies to get where they are, or anything!

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

No idea why you get so worked up over this. Does it affect you in any way if someone is shouting in Port Jeuno offering boss win/atma/whatever for a price?

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I'm just an intense person who comes off as even more intense. Trust me, I'm not that worked about it, it's all relative.

About it affecting me, we're kind of talking about different things at this point because of the tangent trail from my OP. I made this thread mostly for three reasons.
1. I've been leaving groups far more than I'd like because of the old bait and switch.
2. Reading stupid 'screw you over' shouts and the ensuing flame wars is getting old; blocking shouts all together obviously isn't feasible. Blist can only hold so many names.
3.Lastly but mainly, I was hoping that there's at least one server out there where this stuff either doesn't exist(virtually) or happens with far less regularity.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Why do you ask the questions to which you know the answer?

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You completely missed my main question which I asked at least twice in the OP.(tip:it's at the beginning and end of the normal sized text) I mean, really, I asked a bunch of questions besides my main one yet all you focused on is the 'question' I didn't ask but had the answer already mentioned. Are we playing jeopardy? I never asked "what do you do/how do you deal with these stupid shouts" which is exactly why I said inb4 yet $*#!@s keep mentioning it, amazing!

Dare I bring up the term 'strawman' here. lol
*duck and cover*