Cultural Lotting Changes, now with no risk of being closed

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Originally Posted by Rafien

Simple, when he casts lot on multiple items D2 him or boot him from the LS and party immediately.

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But their system is all about items being freelot; the person is just exercising their right to freelot.

SE's system of freelot is just a simple backbone to allow looting of items. It is the parties job to mange how they want to. When you go into a party you should ask whats the rules on loting and how are things dropped.

You exercise your right to freelot, I'll exercise my right to D2 you and kick you from the party/LS.

EDIT:
It's just plain ignorant to walk into a party and just lot on anything you want. A simple, 'Hey, can I lot on that, I need it for....'

Almost every party I've been to say go ahead and take it. I was in a party once when the tank lotted on an item I needed and we already agreed that I would get the item when it dropped. He did it in the middle of a battle and I was the healer.. I let him die than kicked him from the party, this was pre-adjustment to losing exp while dieing.

You know just bare with me on this for an idea that might even the stakes on lotting rules and to help prevent ninja lotters and all that jazz.

Basically the idea is rounded around a selection of rules which apply to the leader of the group.

General Rundown:
- When a party/alliance is formed the leader of that alliance will have the option to select one set of lotting rules.
- The leader can only do this once, once the rules are accepted they cannot change reguardless if a new leader takes charge without fully disbanding the alliance leaders party. (To prevent ninja editing by shady leaders.)
- If no rules are selected, they automatically fall to the current lotting system by default, the option to change this will remain however unless the leader selects the original lotting rules.
- If the leader of the group alliances with another party with or w/o a different set of rules already selected, the alliance leader's rules will supersede the other parties rules and will remain that way for the duration that individual party is formed.
- When lotting rules are selected by the alliance leader, all members will be given dialog saying so as well as new party members.
- An alliance/party cannot disband, nor any members zone or warp as long as there is treasure in the pool.

Checking/Selecting Lotting Rules:
- A new option will be added to the Party menu that allows all party members to check the current rules for that individual group or alliance.
- If no rules are selected the party/alliance members will be told so and that the original lotting rules or "free for all" are in play.
- The same option will be used to selecting the rules by the party/alliance leader.

Groups of Rules:

Original/Free for all:
- Current Lotting system.
- Anyone can lot anything.

Pros:
- System everyone is familiar with.
Cons:
- Still run the risk of ninja lotters, warpers, and alliance breakers.


QuarterMaster:
- All items fall to the individual who selected.
- The rule cannot be changed once selected, however the selectee can be changed to different individuals.
- NEW TWIST- The selectee will have the option to pass gear to the alliance pool, if he does not pass gear in the selected time all gear will automatically fall to him.
- NEW TWIST- While a person is under quarter master status he will be unable to zone/warp out of the zone without lotting/passing drops in his pool or until the gear autofalls to him.

Pros:
- Allows more flexability with Quartermaster, letting others have the option to select unwanted/unneeded r/ex drops.


Group Rules/Custom:
- Since most items are groupped into their own pool the leader will have the option of selecting from a small set of rules for each of these individual grouppings.

Groups:
- Synth Materials - Including food ingredients, beastmen armor
- AF/Relic/Emp related items - Armor, Weapons, Accessories, Seals, +2 items
- Scrolls - Including Dice, Pup attachments
- Consummables - Cooked Food, ammo, ninja tools, phantom roll cards
- General Equipment - Weapons, Armor, Etc.
- Misc. Groupings - Quest, currency, alexandrite, NM pop items
- Meds - Potions, oils, powders, ointments, etc.

- For each of these groups you have the option of selecting from this set of rules for each, each rule may not be avaliable for all groups however.

Restrictions/Rules:

- Level Requirement - Implement a level requirement in order for people to lot on said piece of equipment.
- You can only set the minimum level, if the gears level is lower than the minimum set, that items
level will be the minimum level.
- When in effect you must have at least one job that can equip that piece meet the minimum
level set, you do not need to be on said job.
- Items such as seals and +2 items are null and void of this rule.

- Free for all - All items within a group that has this rule will be lottable by all.

- Auto-fall - All items in groups with this rule will fall to random party members automatically clearing the treasure pool.

- Quarter Master- All items in this group will fall to a selected individual.
- All rules for Quartermaster see above.
- Quartermaster can only be used in Group/Custom settings once.

- Selection/Reserve - Similar to Quarter Master, however the alliance leader has full power over who gets what in said
group.
- Selection can only be used in Group/Custom settings once.
- The Leader can only select one item to take/give to individuals, turning to free for all rules after.


Pros:
- Enormous lotting flexibility

Cons:
- The complexity of the rule can lead to confusion.



The ideas still a work in progress and open to more suggestions, just keep in mind it would need to be taken with a grain of salt. There will be people who will ALWAYS be unhappy with whatever lotting rules that are out there, and there will ALWAYS be people who try and abuse the system through less than respectable means. The suggestions I put out there kind of tread on the main issues people have always had and hopefully circumvent most of the problematic instances in the bud. At least with rules like these everyone will have the option to see how lots are going to go, and nobody not even the leader will be able to circumvent them. If you don't agree with the current rules you can always leave, beyond that if you get "screwed" out of something a grand majority of it would be your own fault because everything was laid out for you.

why do we have to have a thread open like this that's entire existance is to argue over something that's pointless to argue over when the two arguing are from different servers, therefore they'll never interact in game, so Korpg and Katz can each go about doing their own thing and one will never interfere with the other.

Katz first started a thread over BGs player warning thread. Only reason to get all up tight over that thread is if they are the people stealing in the first place. I'm surprised he didn't make make a thread bashing the cross server app thread. In a game were all it takes is $26 to force a name change and server hop it is possible to interfere.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Katz first started a thread over BGs player warning thread. Only reason to get all up tight over that thread is if they are the people stealing in the first place. I'm surprised he didn't make make a thread bashing the cross server app thread. In a game were all it takes is $26 to force a name change and server hop it is possible to interfere.

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lol too much drama for my taste...I have better things to do with my time and money than interfere with ppl cuz of a post on a forum lol

Its really useful but 9/10 time if some one pulls anything worth getting thm on BG warning thread people will shout it in port jeuno. I have a blist full of said players and thanks to the merge adding new names to it.

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Originally Posted by Bubeeky

lol too much drama for my taste...I have better things to do with my time and money than interfere with ppl cuz of a post on a forum lol

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I'm probably reading ya wrong Bub, But the BG Warning section aren't threads created because of Forum posts. They're generally created because people do what the community would consider shady things. ("stealing" items, "ninja lotting", "Stealing" a linkshell bank and jumping servers, etc!)

Even after being created, they aren't directly meant to deter people from interacting with the warned player, Nor are they meant to try and be spread across all the interwebs. They simply stand as a warning or caution to those who would seek the knowledge.

Good thing katz can't delete any quotes.

So he's deleting his posts in ALL of the threads?

Wow, That seems rather... unusual...

Only way to save face now.

Removing myself from personal attacks and this forum. This forum supports personal attacks by members who see it fit to slander other users. I been called a coward, accused of stealing, accusing people who read "some people" as attacks on themselves. I would rather remove myself and my comments from such people in the future I will keep all suggestions to myself. Good luck everyone with discussing your views Im sorry I cant support the board that allows people to mock and slander other people.

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Originally Posted by katz

Removing myself from personal attacks and this forum. This forum supports personal attacks by members who see it fit to slander other users. I been called a coward, accused of stealing, accusing people who read "some people" as attacks on themselves. I would rather remove myself and my comments from such people in the future I will keep all suggestions to myself. Good luck everyone with discussing your views Im sorry I cant support the board that allows people to mock and slander other people.

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You started a disscussion on a topic that it was wrong for people to warn other players of "shandy" "unwanted" "dishonest" action that have happen to them and are simple helping other be informed.

Some of the Posters here my self included came to reason only reason any one could get mad at such a thread is a)they did something like what was being warned about b)some on they know did such a action and are not a outcast or c)all of the above.

Then you went on to say that there can be no stealing since free lotting is SE only option on lotting if not QM, and LS rules, other player agreements didn't mean anything. You later went on to say that your group agrees to sell and split gil items that drop which goes agenst what you posted before.

Debates are people attacking each other postions and for the most part thats what has happen.

I started a discusstion about the lotting system and whether people wanted changes to it and if they could change the lotting system what would the do. The attacks came as people wanted to discuss linkshell rules and the right to name and shame people rather than the subject matter.

Katz, you're the cause of the attacks and the attacks are being inflicted by you, on yourself.

If you're intelligent why would you be upset if somebody calls you a moron, on the internet? It's insecurities and lack of confidence that contribute to being insulted on the internet; it's obvious that you're insecure/unconfident when you have to use a mule, as your identity, to prevent any potential repercussions.

In any case, the lotting system is fine, as it stands. It allows for a great deal of flexibility and even if they did change it problems would persist; it would just be a huge waste of resources when they could be working on new content.

Slanderous statement breaches forum rules. Last time I checked being accussed of something that you didnt do is slanderous.

Katz, you really need to calm down..

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I'm probably reading ya wrong Bub, But the BG Warning section aren't threads created because of Forum posts. They're generally created because people do what the community would consider shady things. ("stealing" items, "ninja lotting", "Stealing" a linkshell bank and jumping servers, etc!)

Even after being created, they aren't directly meant to deter people from interacting with the warned player, Nor are they meant to try and be spread across all the interwebs. They simply stand as a warning or caution to those who would seek the knowledge.

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ohhhhhhhh I see now, thanks for clearin' that up, I've never seen or read a BG warning section before lol I just get notified by someone in game that <insert person name here> is bad to pt with or somethin'

Thanks Krab!

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Originally Posted by katz

Slanderous statement breaches forum rules. Last time I checked being accussed of something that you didnt do is slanderous.

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Why are you hiding the identity of your real character, if you don't have anything to hide? If you're going to do things that create suspicion then you can't really expect there not to be questions or speculation. Being so defensive only serves you by making you seem guilty of the accusation.

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Originally Posted by Azagthoth

Why are you hiding the identity of your real character, if you don't have anything to hide? If you're going to do things that create suspicion then you can't really expect there not to be questions or speculation. Being so defensive only serves you by making you seem guilty of the accusation.

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Im not hiding anything, its got screwed up again. Im a 56 nin.

When you make a thread attacking another site for having a player warning thread what do you think people would first think of if some one does that. Like if some one starts attacking DWI laws being to strict in a public forum, first thought would be geuss they drank and drive.

Now had you open with how do the JPs handle the same kinda of actions with out using such a thread you could have avoided most of the attcks. Then came the response of if SE allows for items to be free lotted then any rule plays make iother players can ignore them since SE will do nothing agesnt them. That is were the warning thread comes in.

there fixed....sighs or maybe not

I don't believe for a minute that your highest level job is a level 58 NIN and the second highest being MNK at 38; otherwise, you can't have much, if any experience with the lotting system.

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Originally Posted by katz

Slanderous statement breaches forum rules. Last time I checked being accussed of something that you didnt do is slanderous.

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You attacked my lotting rights. You also accused me of being unfair, since I respect mine and everyone else's lotting rights and you wish to change that. So, in respect, you also have committed slanderous statements.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

You attacked my lotting rights. You also accused me of being unfair, since I respect mine and everyone else's lotting rights and you wish to change that. So, in respect, you also have committed slanderous statements.

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Hence the deletion of anything that might have been slanderous or deemed as slanderous. I have never attacked anyones lotting rights. You can lot however you like, I have defended the rights of linkshells to set their own rules. What I have done is asked people to contain their comments to the Cultural lotting rules and how the system can be made better but time and time again keep putting words into my phrases that sound like I am against all of this and Im not. when I stated there is no ninja lots under the free lot system the whole population decided I was saying ninja lotting doesnt exist and that I condoned such actions. Trying to explain the differences became a personal attack at me instead of trying to understand what I was asking.

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Originally Posted by Azagthoth

I don't believe for a minute that your highest level job is a level 58 NIN and the second highest being MNK at 38; otherwise, you can't have much, if any experience with the lotting system.

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Played the game for 7 years, this is my second character once you have levelled all you want to you need a new character. I needed a better dd

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Originally Posted by katz

I have defended the rights of linkshells to set their own rules.

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You said that linkshells setting rules for lotting was against the TOS.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

You said that linkshells setting rules for lotting was against the TOS.

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Someone else probably mis quoted it. What I said was there is nothing in the game that can store rules for people to see and I even suggested putting a new linkshell menu in for them.

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Originally Posted by katz

Played the game for 7 years, this is my second character once you have levelled all you want to you need a new character. I needed a better dd

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Why do you need a new character when you'll have the same jobs available regardless. If you want a better dd then level a dd job? It doesn't really make much sense unless you were planning on dual-boxing. In which case, you're hiding your main character.

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Originally Posted by Azagthoth

Why do you need a new character when you'll have the same jobs available regardless. If you want a better dd then level a dd job? It doesn't really make much sense unless you were planning on dual-boxing. In which case, you're hiding your main character.

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If you have never tried it I recommend you do. There are differences between the races despite what people think about armour fixing it. The same armour on a different race does have an impact. I play the game to enjoy these differences and to see what I can do.

I remember shouting in PJ once if I could pull an Abyssea lot system onto Royal Jelly. Phalanx scrolls were 700k at the time, and I really didn't wanna pay that. 2 people responded it would be selfish to want the one scroll from any orb, but as long as I was giving away the much more valuable Ni it would be okay. For clarification, the lot system I mean is like this: "/sh Glavoid, Do You Need It? Shells X. All Else FL. /tell <me>". I actually did get 2 other people to join, but we didn't get any drops. The next day I bought it after all. The rules as they are now are just fine, even when some people don't play fair. I rest easy knowing that not everyone I see wants to stab me in the back. As long as everyone knows the rules, the rules work. This extends across all cultures and people, even in an online game.

There is no need for overhaul because the system leaves room for player application, and language barriers prevent a good amount of cross-cultural rule-breaking. People who speak multiple languages are also at least partially aware of the customs surrounding that language, and are more than happy to comply unless they are habitual rule-breakers. Warning lists in general are to both inform other players of wrongdoing and force the accused to make amends or face dire social consequences. The only concrete reason to want a change is to create unfair advantages that don't rely on the ever-present faults of humanity.

ith the intention of improving the experience of the game for all participants, if a post includes any of the following violations, we reserve the right to take action including, but not limited to, editing/deleting/locking/moving the content without notice, restricting your forum usage, temporarily suspending either your FINAL FANTASY XI Account or Square Enix Account, or permanently banning either your FINAL FANTASY XI Service Account or Square Enix Account.
Posting that constitutes discrimination against another forum member or group (also including forming groups for the purpose of discrimination), insults, slander, libel, harassment of a group or individual.

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Originally Posted by katz

Posting that constitutes discrimination against another forum member or group (also including forming groups for the purpose of discrimination), insults, slander, libel, harassment of a group or individual.

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You still posted slander towards me, regardless of deleting it or not.

The thing is, since you have no proof as to otherwise, it must be true.

So, this post is not slander since it is true.

If I did slander you then I can only apologize as it was unintentional. I dont recall ever saying anything personal about you unlike some of the comment you and others have said about me.

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Originally Posted by katz

If I did slander you then I can only apologize as it was unintentional. I dont recall ever saying anything personal about you unlike some of the comment you and others have said about me.

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Automatic slander again. We did not say anything bad about you and you are making accusations that we all made verbal attacks on you again. And since you deleted everything, you knew of your slanderous words just to protect you from the very rules you accuse us of breaking.

And the above is true, because it follows logically. So this post is not slanderous.

Taken from a quote with the quote context highlighted for those who keep accusing me of believing shouldnt write their own rules. "
There is nothing new about linkshell leaders giving out favours to favourite people. Just like there is nothing new about ninja lotter (IYO). As I have previously stated everyone who is in my linkshell has the right to lot on anything that drops. If you took part in the activity then it is fair that you can lot on it. It can be the first time it dropped, it doesnt matter, you helped it happen. This is a much fairly system than most linkshell run. I dont care if you want it to store in your mog house when someone else could be using it, your reason for wanting it is as valid as someone elses. This is in my opinion there is no such thing as a ninja lot. I can see a need for people who want to stop other people from lotting to have a system change. Maybe it would be better for leaders to say who cant lot or leaders to have the right to pass it from others. Ive seen examples where people argue over who has what rights and as you have all said you all signed up to the linkshell leaders rules so the linkshell leaders should have the rights to do what they want people will just leave if its a bad shell. I would like to see the quartermaster applied but dont see how it can work with ex rare gear.

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Originally Posted by katz

Taken from a quote with the quote context highlighted for those who keep accusing me of believing shouldnt write their own rules. "
There is nothing new about linkshell leaders giving out favours to favourite people. Just like there is nothing new about ninja lotter (IYO). As I have previously stated everyone who is in my linkshell has the right to lot on anything that drops. If you took part in the activity then it is fair that you can lot on it. It can be the first time it dropped, it doesnt matter, you helped it happen. This is a much fairly system than most linkshell run. I dont care if you want it to store in your mog house when someone else could be using it, your reason for wanting it is as valid as someone elses. This is in my opinion there is no such thing as a ninja lot. I can see a need for people who want to stop other people from lotting to have a system change. Maybe it would be better for leaders to say who cant lot or leaders to have the right to pass it from others. Ive seen examples where people argue over who has what rights and as you have all said you all signed up to the linkshell leaders rules so the linkshell leaders should have the rights to do what they want people will just leave if its a bad shell. I would like to see the quartermaster applied but dont see how it can work with ex rare gear.

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And since I don't need a change for the new lotting system, and you do, but the old lotting system had people steal drops from others, you have basically said that I am a thief! More slander!

Since I back linkshell distribution methods and you don't, and I don't want to change the system at all, and those who have such a linkshell distribution system must be a bad linkshell, you just called my entire linkshell and a lot of other's bad people! Even more slander!

When are you going to be satisfied with slandering everyone here?

The above post is not slander, since it follows logically and therefor must be true.

Your slanderous quote "On a personal note: Are you one who stolen stuff from others? You seem so adamantly against this current system, is it because you are on the "name and shame" list? "

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Originally Posted by Korpg

And since I don't need a change for the new lotting system, and you do, but the old lotting system had people steal drops from others, you have basically said that I am a thief! More slander!

Since I back linkshell distribution methods and you don't, and I don't want to change the system at all, and those who have such a linkshell distribution system must be a bad linkshell, you just called my entire linkshell and a lot of other's bad people! Even more slander!

When are you going to be satisfied with slandering everyone here?

The above post is not slander, since it follows logically and therefor must be true.

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Im not against linkshell distribution as the bolder underlined statement shows. I just dont operate it. You on the other hand are determined to make up stuff that I havent said (see bold above)

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Originally Posted by katz

Your slanderous quote "On a personal note: Are you one who stolen stuff from others? You seem so adamantly against this current system, is it because you are on the "name and shame" list? "

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Slander: To make a false statement against somebody to defame or create malicious insinuations towards another.

Since what you quoted was a question, not a statement, that is not slander nor was it a slanderous statement.