Pre Abyssea: Whatever happened to that Warp-Taru in Whitegate?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Most people agree with you Thehobo, as you can see by looking at any random page in the General Discussion forum. Someone said you can still do old events, and while that's true, the incentive for most of those is gone, at least to a lot of people. We had to cancel Dynamis often lately, because most people didn't wanna join, and we couldn't even get one full party together. And while that may be doable (I believe we were 7 when we won Beaucedine a while ago), it's not quite as profitable and not nearly as fun. I miss the days when you had to throw 20+ people at events and try to coordinate that giant mess. I didn't get a chance to do the new Dynamis yet, but I hear it's harder than it used to be. While that sounds nice, the incentive to do it is even less than it used to be, so getting people will be even harder.

Will have to see how all of that turns out. That's something I really miss about the old days.

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Prior to the update, there were pickup Dynamis /shout runs every single day on Asura. Along with some Sky NMs, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, MMM, and so on. Just about everything but Limbus.

I think most people in the General Discussion hopped on the anti-Abyssea hipster bandwawgon without regard to what actually happens in-game. Abyssea is the popular, prime content in FFXI right now, so some people just have to be contrary for the sake of being hip and contrary.

Oh, so Garrison isn't phased out? And all the people who level through Abyssea understand their job as well as someone who grinded through Bibiki Bay and learned something new about the job every day? Did you even read where I said AF1 is NOT obsolete? Is there. Read it. As a matter of fact, it's in what you reposted. I understand there's a lot of people in Abyssea for many reasons, and again, you're assuming that I'm saying that's all they do. Why must you continue to assume that I'm bashing Abyssea? All I am saying is that there are a lot of elements that have been phased out partially or completely. The idea of running around with the use of Crags and OPs was all we had. Now you don't even need teleports anymore except for Limbus/Sky and maybe certain ways to travel. (Zitah, etc.)

What about all the quests that we used to do for gil? Gil isn't even relevant anymore. Hell, people still complain if you're wearing Perle gear. And that's obtained IN ABYSSEA.

How about Besieged? I remember when it was a challenge to be one of the 700 people allowed into Al'Zahbi during this time. Now we're lucky to have ~100.

How about searching for people that were similar to your level? Level Sync ruined that. Not that it didn't make it much easier, but the point remaining the same. The game is easier and less challenging. (Refer to the first post, yet again)

You didn't address any of this? And none of this is incorrect.

And I assume that the idea of AF1+2 doesn't sound appealing? As I said in my first post, to be a step under AF3+1/2. Maybe make it less time consuming but make it proportionally not as good.

See, Arcon understands what I mean. I'm not here to condemn. I'm here to provide new ideas and possibly spark new ideas from the discussion. I may be slightly off on SOME of the things I am saying, as I do understand for your jobs AF may be more useful than to me, but I will not say I'm wrong.

I don't understand why you and the others cannot seem to help facilitate as opposed to directly say I'm instantly wrong about everything. Being here since before Chains of Promathia, I find it hard to be completely wrong. Players who have been here as long as I have can see the change. And AGAIN, I love Abyssea. But why can't you understand it's not perfect?

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

Oh, so Garrison isn't phased out?

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Didn't think anyone cared. I don't.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

And all the people who level through Abyssea understand their job as well as someone who grinded through Bibiki Bay and learned something new about the job every day?

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I was terrible at this game despite grinding through Bibiki and Moon until I discovered BG. It has nothing to do with where/how you level and everything to do with what you learn outside of the game.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

Did you even read where I said AF1 is NOT obsolete? Is there. Read it. As a matter of fact, it's in what you reposted.

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k

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

I understand there's a lot of people in Abyssea for many reasons, and again, you're assuming that I'm saying that's all they do. Why must you continue to assume that I'm bashing Abyssea? All I am saying is that there are a lot of elements that have been phased out partially or completely.

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Like Expeditionary force? Protip: People still do Dynamis, Einherjar, Limbus, Sky, Sea, Assaults, Nyzul, and Salvage.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

The idea of running around with the use of Crags and OPs was all we had. Now you don't even need teleports anymore except for Limbus/Sky and maybe certain ways to travel. (Zitah, etc.)

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So? World is bigger. We have more teleports now. Why is this bad?

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

What about all the quests that we used to do for gil? Gil isn't even relevant anymore. Hell, people still complain if you're wearing Perle gear. And that's obtained IN ABYSSEA.

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Quests were never great for gil. You can do them now and get about the same amount of return on them as you did in the past.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

How about Besieged? I remember when it was a challenge to be one of the 700 people allowed into Al'Zahbi during this time. Now we're lucky to have ~100.

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Those 100 are about as strong as 700 in the past so why does it matter?

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

How about searching for people that were similar to your level? Level Sync ruined that. Not that it didn't make it much easier, but the point remaining the same. The game is easier and less challenging. (Refer to the first post, yet again)

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There are fewer people playing. If we had to search only for people our level, we may never level up. Level sync had its drawbacks, but there was a damn good reason they implemented it.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

You didn't address any of this?

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Just did.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

And none of this is incorrect.

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Beg to differ.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

And I assume that the idea of AF1+2 doesn't sound appealing?

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No. Not really. To heck with rehashes of old armor.

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

As I said in my first post, to be a step under AF3+1/2. Maybe make it less time consuming but make it proportionally not as good.

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Welcome to AF3+1. That's what it's there for. The same goes for Sky Gear +1 and all the other nonsense they've already implemented.

So you're saying experience isn't needed to play a job? If you read about it online, you're be a pro?

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Originally Posted by Thehobo

So you're saying experience isn't needed to play a job? If you read about it online, you're be a pro?

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That's exactly what I'm saying. Assuming, of course, the person reading has half a brain. That is a very important assumption that people tend to gloss over.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

That's exactly what I'm saying. Assuming, of course, the person reading has half a brain. That is a very important assumption that people tend to gloss over.

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Theoretically you're (almost) right, as usual. Practically, as usual, you're wrong. And as usual, you're insulting. To play a job correctly, you don't necessarily need experience. Most of the information is available, you just need to piece it together. However, if, for example, you've never played a mage before, you won't get a feeling for the timing, you won't know spells go off before 100%, you won't be able to accurately judge the maximum casting distance, you won't be able to react quickly in dire situations, you won't be used to your new macros, you may have trouble targeting party members if you've never done it before. Those are just a few example, same can be applied for melee jobs, trouble judging melee/WS distance, trouble using macros, timing Utsusemi, etc. And 30 minutes isn't even enough to comprehend the complexitiy and implications of Tabula Rasa.

Thehobo, personal advice, you'll have a better life if you ignore what Greatguardian is saying.

To get back on topic, Kaduru-Haiduru has bought every relic, mythic and empyrean weapon from the imperial silver coins he got, sold his account for fifty billion dollars, bought Square-Enix and has since been responsible for making Vana'diel a more accessible place, implementing the Explorer Moogle, Retrace Staves, teleport earrings, Horst warps, daily free Instant Warp Scrolls, reduced cost for Instant Warp Scrolls and reduced recharge time for all warp/teleport items.

Everything you mentioned is clearly documented. Max casting range is 21'. Max melee range is 6'. I could go on.

I also included "30 minutes of practice" in my post to clear up those tweaks. It does not take hours and hours of playing to get used to macros or the quirks of the magic system. Your post really consists of nothing more than "Sure, in theory a smart person can do this. But it never happens because no one is smart enough."

Arcon, personal advice, you aren't going to succeed making a case that assumes people aren't smart/skilled enough to do something. Some aren't. Some are. I already made that distinction. It's not my fault if there are more people are unable/unwilling to learn how to play FFXI than those that are.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Theoretically you're (almost) right, as usual. Practically, as usual, you're wrong. And as usual, you're insulting.

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I disagree entirely. He's not incorrect or insulting. He's being blunt and to the point.

Any mildly-intelligent, competent player can indeed learn to gear, macro, and play any given job within a few hours. Perfecting play takes a long time and much experience, but it takes only a matter of hours to competently gear, macro, and play a job. It takes even less time given a player is familiar with the style of the job.

I'm no expert RDM, but soon after dinging level 90, I jumped right in and played RDM while farming Abyssea with friends. I did fine, and I've been researching and improving since then.

I agree with both Eeks and GG on this one. Learning to play a job isn't hard if you've kept your eyes open. Whether it's online documentation or observing others who play competently, most jobs are fairly easy pick-ups. For example, I leveled BLM recently. The only nuking experience I had was on my RDM, which is usually used for healing, debuffing, etc. I don't nuke often on RDM. On top of that, I'm used to faster casts, lower damage and thus lower emnity gained, etc. In other words, I had barely any idea of how BLM worked just from my own personal experience.

However. From observing others and asking questions (why is it that no one does this these days? They assume they're right and that they're awesome, and then people tell them they're wrong and suddenly they're flaming) I've quickly picked up BLM. Heck, there are still things I need to learn, for sure, but most of that is the more complicated math stuff. For example, my friend and I were talking about Goetia Mantle vs. Searing Cape in and out of Abyssea, and he started going on about how Goetia might be better because of fINT caps or something. I was clueless; I'm not a mathematician.

Things I learned in the space of one party: how hard I can nuke without pulling hate to myself given my gear, keeping up buffs fulltime and learning to keep alive in the event that I do pull hate (Mana Wall, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Blink, Stuns, etc) while the mob is killed off or hate is regained, etc. Maybe these are little things, but there are also finer points to it to that you just pick up as you go along. However, I've been told I'm a competent BLM; I'm not the best, as I still have a lot of gear to get yet and some trials to do, but at the same time, it didn't make more than maybe an hour, hour and a half tops to learn a job.

Also I've been doing Limbus and Salvage runs a lot lately. Valefor's a bit dry on Dyna runs (though it may be changing depending on the new content) and Sky/Sea's a bit underused, but that's partially 'cause I can solo/duo most of the content (JoL, Kirin, etc don't count, as well as some of the higher jailers. They're still a bit shy of soloable!) and I don't bother making groups when it's just easy now. Unfortunately that's what level cap increases do; they make things easy. I still do Besieged for IS (I need it for all my Salvage Runs; though I really should just stop being lazy and walk to one of the entrances instead of warping) as well as skillups (I was getting skillups at 90) so that's not phased out as much as you'd think either. I think Valefor usually has the Astral Candescence, but I haven't actively been observing it.

My point here is yes, some of the older content is becoming less-used, but part of it is because it's just a case of "been there, done it." Most of us have beaten Omega (though you'd be surprised on Ultima... too many people wanted Homam > Nashira), we've slain the Sky Gods and Kirin and gotten our shiny Abjuration gear. A large number of us have done our ZMs or CoP missions, or have done Besieged to the point where we see "Oh, an attack is coming? Meh, someone will deal with it." It's just... old content. You can't just revive it by adding new gear; it's still simple, it's still things we've all done a number of times before. That's just how it is. :|