Why Can't you use Grips when using H2H?

Grips were introduced to try and counter balance the 2 handed update. SE nerfed two handed weapons due to people complaining they were too strong. Then SE realized they nerfed it too much and so introduced grips to correct the mistake rather than just reversing the update. However, the players who benefitted the most from the addition of grips were mages.

Seeing as how mnk weapons are not considered two handed weapons, they were excluded from the two handed nerfing, and so did not have any reason for a counter balance through grips.

That is the history of the 2handed nerf, and grip introduction as I remember it from 2006-2008.

You can't use grips with hand to hand because they don't count as 2handed weapons. They're teachnically dual-wielded 1-handed weapons - There's an invisible weapon in the offhand slot which is what gives you your second attack. As a result, you can't put anything there.

Hand to hand does not get the 2-handed attack/accuracy calculation, either. The game does not treat them as 2-handed weapons, simple as that.

2-handers were never "nerfed". They were initially considered weaker, so SE buffed them to 1 stat = 1 attack/accuracy. They decided that was too much and lowered it to 3 stat = 2 attack/accuracy. This is still above the original state. They buffed 2h, then they partially removed the buff.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You can't use grips with hand to hand because they don't count as 2handed weapons. They're teachnically dual-wielded 1-handed weapons - There's an invisible weapon in the offhand slot which is what gives you your second attack. As a result, you can't put anything there.

Hand to hand does not get the 2-handed attack/accuracy calculation, either. The game does not treat them as 2-handed weapons, simple as that.

2-handers were never "nerfed". They were initially considered weaker, so SE buffed them to 1 stat = 1 attack/accuracy. They decided that was too much and lowered it to 3 stat = 2 attack/accuracy. This is still above the original state. They buffed 2h, then they partially removed the buff.

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The 2007 2H buff also made 2H weapons partially ignore defense and level difference, about a month later SE realized how overpowered this was (a couple 2H melee could mow down Fafnir in less than a minute) so they scaled this back (although 2H still have an advantage here) and lowered ACC/ATT to 4:3 instead of 1:1.

Grips were introduced with the initial 2H buff not later.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

The 2007 2H buff also made 2H weapons partially ignore defense and level difference, about a month later SE realized how overpowered this was (a couple 2H melee could mow down Fafnir in less than a minute) so they scaled this back (although 2H still have an advantage here) and lowered ACC/ATT to 4:3 instead of 1:1.

Grips were introduced with the initial 2H buff not later.

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This!
grips were introduced when mnk was top DD then dual wielder and 2hander were "weak" DDs, adding them to mnks would have been stupid as it was to fix 2hander (they over fixed it and had to came a little back but thats another story)

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Originally Posted by hiko

This!
grips were introduced when mnk was top DD then dual wielder and 2hander were "weak" DDs, adding them to mnks would have been stupid as it was to fix 2hander (they over fixed it and had to came a little back but thats another story)

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And MNK is still top DD.

I always thought H2H weapons should just fill up both slots (one knuckle in each box).

I too noticed the taru Fomor with two different H2H but I know MNK is top DD but I know PUP isn't.

Thanks for your inputs.

PUP is perfectly fine. Their biggest issue post-Abyssea was a lack of an Automaton crit WS, and even that's getting fixed in a week.

Just as soon as I can wear black belt you can use grips.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

H2Hers should just be happy that they can wield their best weapon in both hands :p, unlike dualwielders who can only the best weapon in one hand.

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I see this differently.

1) if you use Spharai, for example, the triple proc is only on the main hand
2) on Final Heaven, as in howling fist and many mnk weapons skills, the off hand blow uses a lower ftp adjustment and is much lower damage.
3) the hades sainti +1 bonus of +9 acc applies on each attack, but it essentially is the same as a dual wielder having 2 weapons with +4.5 acc each, or one weapon with +9 and the other with zero. This makes h2h weapons look more powerful than single weapons that a DW uses, but it's clearly misleading.

In short, in some cases, you have a really good main hand weapon, with a vanilla off hand one, and in particular poor off hand on weapons skills. It would be great if the game treated the off hand AS IF it was the same weapon in both hands, but often times it doesn't.

While I think it's true that many of these decisions SE makes are designed around fear that mnks will be too strong, I wish I could see more logic in it than knee-jerk thinking:

1) h2h damage, delay, grips treated like dual wielding users
2) hasso, seigan treated like dual wielding users
3) /nin sub, DW enhancements NOT treated like dual wielding users
4) shield treated like dual wielding users
5) second weapon NOT treated like dual wielding users