WS gorgets, are they still worth getting?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

As I said, I didn't mean it in that way, it's still not wrong though, because something actually is getting smaller: the damage bonus in relation to your base damage. If you thought I meant the fTP bonus is different, then you simply misread,

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to me it could be read like that that is why i was stressing to comment you mean the final damage comparisons are " diminishing"/ final percent gains.

I do not mean to sound like i am trying to pick fights but I like to be clear.

But when talking about specific weapon skills, the fTP bonus given through use of gorgets/belts doesn't necessarily directly increase weapon skill damage. Say a weapon skill like Penta Thrust. The fTP bonus simply increases the accuracy of the weapon skill. If your accuracy is already capped, using a gorget would be a waste, and you're better off using more Attack/STR/(insert specific WS mods here). Is this not true?

Furthermore, weapon skills like Raging Rush which fTP increases the chance for the WS to critical hit. The use of a gorget on these WS can be debatable depending on the situation which you use them. Abyssea is a good example of a place where use of a gorget/belt on this WS is not really necessary. You would benefit more, again, from boosting your STR/Attack/DA/other WS mods.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

But when talking about specific weapon skills, the fTP bonus given through use of gorgets/belts doesn't necessarily directly increase weapon skill damage. Say a weapon skill like Penta Thrust. The fTP bonus simply increases the accuracy of the weapon skill. If your accuracy is already capped, using a gorget would be a waste, and you're better off using more Attack/STR/(insert specific WS mods here). Is this not true?

Furthermore, weapon skills like Raging Rush which fTP increases the chance for the WS to critical hit. The use of a gorget on these WS can be debatable depending on the situation which you use them. Abyssea is a good example of a place where use of a gorget/belt on this WS is not really necessary. You would benefit more, again, from boosting your STR/Attack/DA/other WS mods.

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* Element: None

* Skillchain Properties: Compression-Icon.gifCompression

* Modifiers: STR:20% ; DEX:20%

* Damage Multipliers by TP:

100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.00 1.00 1.00

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Originally Posted by Frost

Depending on the weaponskill, and how many hits the weaponskill is, and off-hand; they can typically provide anywhere from ~2% raw damage to about ~10% damage to a weaponskill per piece; so 4% - 20% paired, and a presumed ~10-20 Accuracy solo/paired respectively.

.......

For multi-hit weaponskills like Evisceration, it has 5 hits plus the off-hand; only the first is modified. The fTP on the wiki is only the first hit, all other hits are locked at a 1.0 fTP.

If you were subbing nin, using Evisceration, equipping both gorget and belt, you'd get a 1.2 multiplier for the first hit, and 1.0 for the trailing 5 hits, or a complete fTP of 6.2 which is a 3% increase roughly, as well as 20 accuracy. Arguably, an alternative could be Love Torque and Warwolf Belt. 3% raw Weaponskill damage, 7 conserve TP and 20 accuracy, or 10 dex, ~17 accuracy, and 5 Str. I dont' have the math right now to show which is better, but the margin is going to likely be negligible between the two outside of Abyssea, and heavily in favor of the elemental Gorget/Belt inside due to the amount of raw starts provided.

But that's just Evisceration, others are more clear.

Addendum/Edit: I believe they were proven to stack btw, so it's not an Either/Or situation. Use both.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

It's quite right, one addition:
Since the fTP value depends on the TP at which the WS is performed, so does the bonus from the gorgets, while STR/Attack will always give the same boost independant of TP.

This, again, depends on the WS itself. There's WS with constant fTP (low fTP like Raging Rush or high fTP like Sidewinder), and WS with heavily rising fTP (like Steel Cyclone).

Raging Rush 100%: 1.0, torque/belt bonus: 10%
Raging Rush 300%: 1.0, torque/belt bonus: 10%

Sidewinder 100%: 5.0, torque/belt bonus: 2%
Sidewinder 300%: 5.0, torque/belt bonus: 2%

Steel Cyclone 100%: 1.5, torque/belt bonus: 6.6%
Steel Cyclone 300%: 3.0, torque/belt bonus: 3.3%

So you see the damage bonus dimishes with higher fTP. The precise bonus is always (fTP+0.1)/fTP. Now let's assume 10STR for Steel Cyclone would give 5% damage boost. That would mean that at 100% it would make more sense to use WS gorget, however at 300% the 10 STR would be a larger damage boost. A general formula to determine the tipping point would be
(fTP+0.1)/fTP = 1 + x
<=> fTP = 0.1/x
where x is the percentual increase in damage. So if we say 10 STR would give Steel Cyclone a 5% damage boost, then the tipping point would be fTP = 0.1/0.05 = 2. Which means before fTP = 2 (under ~220%TP), a WS gorget would produce better results, after fTP = 2 (above ~220%TP), the 10 STR piece would do better.

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I must have skipped over some posts. Also, I'm not the greatest mathematician, I'm only skilled in counting how many drinks I've had, and smashing faces. Also, I speak/read/write English very well for an American.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

I must have skipped over some posts. Also, I'm not the greatest mathematician, I'm only skilled in counting how many drinks I've had, and smashing faces. Also, I speak/read/write English very well for an American.

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np, got your answer? XD

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

But when talking about specific weapon skills, the fTP bonus given through use of gorgets/belts doesn't necessarily directly increase weapon skill damage. Say a weapon skill like Penta Thrust. The fTP bonus simply increases the accuracy of the weapon skill. If your accuracy is already capped, using a gorget would be a waste, and you're better off using more Attack/STR/(insert specific WS mods here). Is this not true?

Furthermore, weapon skills like Raging Rush which fTP increases the chance for the WS to critical hit. The use of a gorget on these WS can be debatable depending on the situation which you use them. Abyssea is a good example of a place where use of a gorget/belt on this WS is not really necessary. You would benefit more, again, from boosting your STR/Attack/DA/other WS mods.

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To give a direct answer, fTP always related to damage. The fTP value of weapon skills like Penta Thrust and Raging Rush simply isn't affected by TP, but that doesn't make it less relevant in calculating damage. For example, Penta Thrust's Accuracy increase with TP is completely unrelated to the fTP value.

Ah right. I understand what you're saying now. I was confusing myself quite a bit there lol. I gotta lay off the bottle for a while :rolleyes:

When I thought fTP, obviously I was thinking of TP mods, not the actual damage rating at each tier. Kind of embarrassing actually ><

Regardless, I was going to get at the point of answering the OP, but I sidetracked myself. The answer to the OP is yes! Elemental gorgets/belts are very much worth getting.