WS gorgets, are they still worth getting?

[Mirage]

How good are they compared to other gear, now that we have lots of lv75+ stuff?

I'm wondering if I should bother with getting a few more of them for some other WSes, but i don't know how well they perform nowadays.

[Kensagaku]

I personally feel yes. There's a lot of jobs that can still benefit from the gorgets, and they're much easier to get now. For example, a Breeze Gorget still rocks for Blade: Jin, and a lot of NINs use the Shadow Gorget for Blade: Hi. I also have the Shadow Gorget for Evisceration (Gravitation/Transfixion) which works out quite well. I've certainly seen higher numbers from still using them.

[Arcon]

It's a good question actually. Inside Abyssea your Attack will most likely be capped, so adding more won't help much, so WS gorgets should still be good.

Since there aren't that immensely great items for the neck slot yet, I'm not sure for outside of Abyssea (sea torques are still among the best), maybe Agasaya's Collar, other than that I don't know. However, I'm curious about Anguinus Belt vs. elemental WS belts. 15 Att/Acc is quite a huge boost, twice that of Agasaya's Collar. Then again, the belts also have Conserve TP.

I'd like to say they're about the same, but I'm really not sure. Someone would have to check the lolforums if any actual testing has been done.

[Rambus]

light neck, belt rules!

sooo much saved space, /dances.

[Andylynn]

Of course theyre worth using, accuracy, higher FTP mod (seeL Fudo, ridiculous FTP, above average damage), and the belts have conserve TP. They're greater than some of the other options, might as well, unless youre using an STP neck to maintain x-hit after ws.

[Mirage]

The main reason I asked was because someone told me it's not worth using both the belt and the gorget, so if you use the belt (which is better because of conserve TP), you should get something better for neck.

[Frost]

The main reason I asked was because someone told me it's not worth using both the belt and the gorget, so if you use the belt (which is better because of conserve TP), you should get something better for neck.

Depending on the weaponskill, and how many hits the weaponskill is, and off-hand; they can typically provide anywhere from ~2% raw damage to about ~10% damage to a weaponskill per piece; so 4% - 20% paired, and a presumed ~10-20 Accuracy solo/paired respectively.

I don't know the math for Empyrean weapons specifically, but I know for most every other weapon the gorget/belt offer more damage potential than anythign else available for the slots they occupy.

But if you want to work it out on your own, look up any weaponskill on the wiki, and look for the fTP. That is the raw final multiplier after all the math is done basically. If it's calculated to do 800 damage and that fTP is 1.5, it will do 1200. Adding a gorget/belt to that would up the fTP to 1.7, making damage 1,360.

For multi-hit weaponskills like Evisceration, it has 5 hits plus the off-hand; only the first is modified. The fTP on the wiki is only the first hit, all other hits are locked at a 1.0 fTP.

If you were subbing nin, using Evisceration, equipping both gorget and belt, you'd get a 1.2 multiplier for the first hit, and 1.0 for the trailing 5 hits, or a complete fTP of 6.2 which is a 3% increase roughly, as well as 20 accuracy. Arguably, an alternative could be Love Torque and Warwolf Belt. 3% raw Weaponskill damage, 7 conserve TP and 20 accuracy, or 10 dex, ~17 accuracy, and 5 Str. I dont' have the math right now to show which is better, but the margin is going to likely be negligible between the two outside of Abyssea, and heavily in favor of the elemental Gorget/Belt inside due to the amount of raw starts provided.

But that's just Evisceration, others are more clear.

Addendum/Edit: I believe they were proven to stack btw, so it's not an Either/Or situation. Use both.

[Arcon]

The main reason I asked was because someone told me it's not worth using both the belt and the gorget, so if you use the belt (which is better because of conserve TP), you should get something better for neck.

That argument is in itself flawed, since both stack. And the belt has better alternative options (does Conserve TP +7 make up for 8 Acc/Att? Science is tiring), so if anything I'd replace that. But it's hard to say without some real testing, they're probably about the same.

[Maquis]

It mostly depends on the WS you are using.

Single Hit WS, fTP modifier has more relative effect.

For example Tachi: Gekko.
Since you can easily hit fSTR cap in Abyssea and Gekko gets a 100% attack bonus (capping your PDIF) and adding the fact that your first hit in a WS has a huge accuracy boost, there isn't much you can add on gear that can increase the damage. Adding both Gorget and Belt, using maxed randomisers, in my calculations I came to an approximate 12% damage increase on 100TP for using both Belt and Gorget.

On Fudo, this changed to a 5% damage increase, simply because Fudo has a high fTP to start with and doesn't increase it that much relatively speaking.

If you want to go for the best gear set up for a certain WS, you will just have to do the calculation for that WS and then decide if it will be inside or outside Abyssea.


Example:
Lets say we have two weaponskills that use 1 hit. They do the exact same damage with maxed randomisers.

WS1: 800 damage
WS2: 800 damage

But, WS1 achieves this with an fTP value of 1.5. WS2 achieves this with an fTP value of 3.0.

If you were to add 0.1 fTP, this would result in:

(800 / 1.5) * 1.6 = 853
(800 / 3.0) * 3.1 = 827

The increase is low on this example, but you can see that adding 1fTP can have different outcomes based on the fTP value of the WS itself.





TL;DR; version:
- fTP addition is most noticable on single hit WS.
- Check if Abyssea caps you on stats.
- Low fTP on your WS? Gorget and Belt add more in %.



PS: First time I actually wrote this all down as math, so if wrong somewhere, please feel free to correct me.

[Arcon]

PS: First time I actually wrote this all down as math, so if wrong somewhere, please feel free to correct me.

It's quite right, one addition:
Since the fTP value depends on the TP at which the WS is performed, so does the bonus from the gorgets, while STR/Attack will always give the same boost independant of TP.

This, again, depends on the WS itself. There's WS with constant fTP (low fTP like Raging Rush or high fTP like Sidewinder), and WS with heavily rising fTP (like Steel Cyclone).

Raging Rush 100%: 1.0, torque/belt bonus: 10%
Raging Rush 300%: 1.0, torque/belt bonus: 10%

Sidewinder 100%: 5.0, torque/belt bonus: 2%
Sidewinder 300%: 5.0, torque/belt bonus: 2%

Steel Cyclone 100%: 1.5, torque/belt bonus: 6.6%
Steel Cyclone 300%: 3.0, torque/belt bonus: 3.3%

So you see the damage bonus dimishes with higher fTP. The precise bonus is always (fTP+0.1)/fTP. Now let's assume 10STR for Steel Cyclone would give 5% damage boost. That would mean that at 100% it would make more sense to use WS gorget, however at 300% the 10 STR would be a larger damage boost. A general formula to determine the tipping point would be
(fTP+0.1)/fTP = 1 + x
<=> fTP = 0.1/x
where x is the percentual increase in damage. So if we say 10 STR would give Steel Cyclone a 5% damage boost, then the tipping point would be fTP = 0.1/0.05 = 2. Which means before fTP = 2 (under ~220%TP), a WS gorget would produce better results, after fTP = 2 (above ~220%TP), the 10 STR piece would do better.