PUPdate is a fail ;_;

What I would like to know is why everyone is saying Power Cooler is useless. If it costs 1 Ice Capacity, then why not install it in the one remaining Ice Slot on Spiritreaver when everything else costs 2+? Also, the only Ice Attachment I use on Soulsoother is the Mana Booster because all the other Ice Attachments are useless on WHM bot. If my Automaton can use less MP when she decides to drop a 300HP Cure VI on somebody, sign me up. Less MP usage + Reduced time between casts? How is that a bad thing?

that is where i see it as useful, but only on soulsoother. Either way, some of these attachments just weren't thought out well, but that is par for the course for SE, they never think things through.

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Fire Attachment sounds like:
Consumes 1 fire maneuver to add 10 tp on deploy
Consumes 2 fire maneuvers to add 25 tp on deploy
Consumes 3 fire maneuvers to add 50 tp on deply

All of which are rather pointless since you will be giving up wind maneuvers for barrage or dark/lightning maneuvers for cannibal blade, and if you have burts your going to have 100 tp by the time you get 3 fire maneuvers up anyways.

Verdict: Total fail
Suggestion: Change to regain
0 - 3 fire maneuvers adjusts regain from 1 to 10

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Where are you people making these numbers up? I mean, unless you guys are psychic or actually work at SE, I don't think anyone can reasonably say what numbers are going to be. But at the same time, do you honestly think that a 3 fire maneuver TP gain is going to be worse than a /SAM meditate?

I'm all for preventing irrational exuberance, but that doesn't mean that we need to go to irrational pessimism. Here's the way I see it. When SE changes the game for PUP, they usually do so with new abilities and attachments. (See Icemaker and Economizer) And I don't think there's anyone here who believes these aren't potentially game changing. But before we go "it sucks!", let's wait until we get the attachments, k? I mean, the worst that could happen is that I throw those attachments with my Smoke Screen and Tactical Processor. Best thing that could happen is that I'll have to change my strategy around to bring out the best in my automaton.

And as far as AI issues go, when has SE ever announced changes to those? Remember when the automaton used to go for the weakest skillchain (e.g. level 1) possible when skillchaining? Yeah, they fixed that when they introduced the last set of automaton weaponskils. Or how about when automatons nuked only when there was a light and dark maneuver, and only used enfeebles with ice? They fixed that about the same time they introduced the Ice Maker.

My point is here is to not be so negative. Avoiding irrational exuberance is good, but going so far as to go into irrational pessimism isn't good. Let's try to keep an even head until after the update, k?

They ignored the AI issues for 4 years. Don't you think fixing it is something they should mention in an update? Don't you think the pup player base deserves that after all these years?

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Originally Posted by Keyln

Where are you people making these numbers up? I mean, unless you guys are psychic or actually work at SE, I don't think anyone can reasonably say what numbers are going to be. But at the same time, do you honestly think that a 3 fire maneuver TP gain is going to be worse than a /SAM meditate?

I'm all for preventing irrational exuberance, but that doesn't mean that we need to go to irrational pessimism. Here's the way I see it. When SE changes the game for PUP, they usually do so with new abilities and attachments. (See Icemaker and Economizer) And I don't think there's anyone here who believes these aren't potentially game changing. But before we go "it sucks!", let's wait until we get the attachments, k? I mean, the worst that could happen is that I throw those attachments with my Smoke Screen and Tactical Processor. Best thing that could happen is that I'll have to change my strategy around to bring out the best in my automaton.

And as far as AI issues go, when has SE ever announced changes to those? Remember when the automaton used to go for the weakest skillchain (e.g. level 1) possible when skillchaining? Yeah, they fixed that when they introduced the last set of automaton weaponskils. Or how about when automatons nuked only when there was a light and dark maneuver, and only used enfeebles with ice? They fixed that about the same time they introduced the Ice Maker.

My point is here is to not be so negative. Avoiding irrational exuberance is good, but going so far as to go into irrational pessimism isn't good. Let's try to keep an even head until after the update, k?

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Read the post, i said it sounds like, and thats mostly because of past experience. Unless it was 100 tp for 1 fire maneuver I dont see it being useful at all. Do I honestly think a 3 fire maneuver would be worse then sam meditate? I see it as a possibility, yes; do i know for certain, no. Look at economizer for reference.

Id hardly call it irrational pessimism, its more like logical guesstimation.

Would you agree/disagree that:
Barrage: Would be 10000% better if it didnt consume wind and as such didnt mess with haste/range acc?

Fire attachment: Wouldnt it be 1000000000% ^2 better if it was a flat regain, didnt consume maneuvers, and stacked with flame holder? We have tactical switch and burts, did we really need another way to feed our pet tp?

Ice attachment: Wouldnt it be better if it worked on both mages instead of just the blm? Since the blm always has 2x loud speakers and the whm rarely uses any ice attachments other then mana booster? Ice was just a poor choice considering its going to make your pet paralyze the mob instead of cure you.

you should be keeping a light up always anyways, so keeping up light and thunder, i don't see the issue there. Light, dark, thunder. cycle at start to chose enfeebles.

I'm just gonna make some "logical guesstimations" myself here.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Barrage: Would be 10000% better if it didnt consume wind and as such didnt mess with haste/range acc?

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If its a single Barrage shot (like with RNG), then it will probably have a hidden recast of 5 minutes. If its something more like Corsair's Triple Shot, that is still a recast of 5 minutes. That's 5 minutes you wouldn't have to worry about it eating another Wind Maneuver. Also, if you're macroing in Buffoon's collar and/or using/macroing Cirque Farsetto+, why should it matter if you have to use a 2nd Wind Maneuver to replace the one it ate?

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Fire attachment: Wouldnt it be 1000000000% ^2 better if it was a flat regain, didnt consume maneuvers, and stacked with flame holder? We have tactical switch and burts, did we really need another way to feed our pet tp?

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Let's think outside the box for a second on this one. Do you use any fire attachments on Mage frames? If I can cycle in a few fire maneuvers and Tactical Switch after the fact, that is more TP for me to do more damage. Life outside Abyssea and regain Atma. Think about it.

Additionally, this will probably have a few minutes timer. Again, likely 3 minutes if it is analogous to SAM's Meditate. Learn to work around the timers.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Ice attachment: Wouldnt it be better if it worked on both mages instead of just the blm? Since the blm always has 2x loud speakers and the whm rarely uses any ice attachments other then mana booster? Ice was just a poor choice considering its going to make your pet paralyze the mob instead of cure you.

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Why wouldn't it work on WHM? Just because I have an Ice Maneuver up doesn't mean my Automaton uses Paralyze every chance it gets. Damage Gauge + Optical Fiber + Light Maneuver still forces her to Cure VI me and my party members at 80% health. The typical AI program runs -NA Spell > Cure > Enfeeble.

Even if its on a 5 minute timer (which is perfectly logical), its still a pain for barrage to consume maneuvers, and that has nothing to do with overload, it has everything to do with screwing with ws order, wasting our melee time with having to reapply maneuvers, general pup shenanigans. This would not be bad if maneuvers lasted 3-5 minutes. Again, this has nothing to do with overload, because as you said with +2 body overload is no longer an issue.

I have regain earring, and I am well aware of life outside abyssea, but the entire usefulness of the fire attachment depends solely on how much tp it generates and how often its reusable. If its not enough to allow for a ws after a 1.2x tactical switch I still think its a complete waste and would rather have regain that doesn't consume fire maneuvers and actually stacks with flame holder. As is, I have no room for it on my mage/ranger/ve frames and nothing bout the attachment strikes me as wanting to make space for it. The key here is if it consumes fir manuevers you wont ever use it with flame holder which automatically makes this attachment complete fail for dd frames. And if you need it that bad that you are considering droping a DD fire attachment for it, get burts and save yourself the attachment slot and gain a whole lot more.

and here I thought the developers were actually starting to show promise, but they prove again they really have no clue about their own game. Not just on Pup, but the Ranger adjustment was pure fail too.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Even if its on a 5 minute timer (which is perfectly logical), its still a pain for barrage to consume maneuvers...

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So pretty much what you're trying to say is Automatons should have limitless Barrage and Regain while RNGs and SAMs have to wait for recast timers to be up?

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

...it has everything to do with screwing with ws order, wasting our melee time with having to reapply maneuvers, general pup shenanigans.

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It takes 2 keystrokes for me to apply a maneuver. This is how the job is played. We have to apply maneuvers to control the Automaton. Whether or not it screws with the time between punches, I really don't know and could care less. If you're getting that ornery over a split second of time that you're not punching things, you need to find a new hobby to focus your love of math.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

...but the entire usefulness of the fire attachment depends solely on how much tp it generates and how often its reusable.

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I agree with you there to a point. But I don't understand why you are so zealously attacking something you will know nothing about until May 10th at the earliest. The best we can do until then is theorize.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

If its not enough to allow for a ws after a 1.2x tactical switch I still think its a complete waste and would rather have regain that doesn't consume fire maneuvers and actually stacks with flame holder.

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Again, you're asking for us to have capabilities beyond that of other jobs and game balance. Back to back weapon skills? That'd be nice. If I sub /SAM, I only get 60 TP back instead of the 100/120 if I was SAM main. This attachment is, as I said is a previous post, likely the analogue to Meditate.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

As is, I have no room for it on my mage/ranger/ve frames and nothing bout the attachment strikes me as wanting to make space for it.

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And nobody is forcing you to use it.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

The key here is if it consumes fir manuevers you wont ever use it with flame holder which automatically makes this attachment complete fail for dd frames.

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Again, as I've mentioned in a previous post, there will likely be a recast timer for it. If it decides to eat a fire maneuver before Flame Holder, then it'll be something to work around and with like we've all had to do with the casting AI. If it relents to Flame Holder at certain TP percentages, rock and roll.

This is the first time PUPs have had two attachments that consume the same maneuver, and we're getting 2 (Flame Holder/TP & Replicator/Barrage). Only time will tell on how it works. Just calm down and enjoy the game.