Aegis > RUN

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivivivi

If you're talking about Aegis PLD's ability to withstand more damage, then you're correct. But I think what RUN brings to the table is the unique ability to both withstand a certain amount of magical damage, as well as dish out it's fair share. RUN (imo) has many more tricks to generate enmity than PLD. I think RUN isn't meant to be the sort of 18-person tank that PLD can be, but I think in 6-person content, RUN is a suitable tank that can also deal a fair share of damage.

---

Perhaps some day, that will be the case, but RUN's damage is sadly as lack-luster as their ability to tank. True, it does slightly better damage than PLD, but RUN's biggest calling right now is abyssea where a large number of the NMs use only 1 element of damage. RUN still lacks barlight and bardark for a number of these enemies, and even with over 300 resist to an element, these enemies still seem to have no difficulty landing status effects on a RUN. And RUN currently has nothing to gain from abyssea.

So yeah, RUN has a long ways to go.

At the moment, Rune Fencer is basically another job in FFXI's utility melee pile. Rune Fencer has a bunch of a magic damage mitigation abilities, but the job still can't tank anything that any other competent melee with competent support couldn't tank.

Merits and JSE will definitely help a trait and ability dependent job like Rune Fencer climb over a few Puppetmasters or Dancers in that pile, but I'll be shocked if those are all the job needs to climb out entirely.

Of course, nearly the same thing could be said about a Paladin without an Aegis or Ochain. If Paladin's progression is the standard for a job meant to tank from day one, there's a very real possibility that the lion's share of Rune Fencer's defensive ability will come from the job's Mythic weapon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

Doesn't rambling on and on about what job is useless get old...

---

Yes. That's one of the many reasons it be nice if nearly useless jobs were made a bit more useful.

If single-element bar- spells were sufficient, PLD/WHM and PLD/RDM would have discovered that a long time ago.

EDIT: Hell, PLD/BRD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Of course, nearly the same thing could be said about a Paladin without an Aegis or Ochain. If Paladin's progression is the standard for a job meant to tank from day one, there's a very real possibility that the lion's share of Rune Fencer's defensive ability will come from the job's Mythic weapon.

---

I do hope you're wrong about that. Not only are the mythics substantially more difficult to obtain than relics or empyreans, but a RUN's damage potential and ability to hold hate are tied directly to the base damage of their weapon. Since the game is going into vertical progression and it has been mentioned that this coming RME update will be the last, it won't be long before RUN's mythic would hurt them more than help them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Babekeke

Ummm... RUN's 'paper bag physical defense'?

My RUN has -47% PDT (-34% if I'm using Bereaver). Use the right food and you can have well over 700 def BEFORE cocoon or defender.

The only reason people see RUN as having 'paper bag physical defense' is because they're gearing to DD.

---

gearring to DD has a purpose. with very little to work with in the enmity department in todays Zerg-heavy environment the only thing we can do for hate is try to keep up on damage. It's going to be interesting to see where SE goes with our end-game JSE, if they add def likely our damage suffers and vice-versa. considering we are on the middle tier for armor-and to an extent weapon-I'm expecting a mix of the 2, leaving us lagging in both aspects, and probably hurting our enmity all around, an issue for an intended tank. Don't get me wrong, play the job well and we aren't as pathetic as some of the complaints would lead someone who has never played Rune to believe, but pld and nin are both ahead of us in tanking simply due to having hate tools to work with; yes, I know DD can take that hate and never let it go, it doesn't change that they are still ahead of us on grabbing it in the first place.

I just really wish SE would announce (as they are with geo) some of what they are planning so we could comment on it inteligently instead of having to guess or put out wish lists. I also wish they had done this sooner, first impressions are often the last impressions for many players, and since we were rolled out without merits, JSE and end-game weapons available that first impression is that we are weak in comparrison to the other jobs out there. Seriously, beast is just overcoming the XP thing that hasn't been a factor for like 8 years now, pup is just now starting to be written without the mandatory "lol" in front of it, and yes, I've heard "lol-run" already-that is NOT what I want out of one of my favorite jobs to play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I do hope you're wrong about that. Not only are the mythics substantially more difficult to obtain than relics or empyreans, but a RUN's damage potential and ability to hold hate are tied directly to the base damage of their weapon. Since the game is going into vertical progression and it has been mentioned that this coming RME update will be the last, it won't be long before RUN's mythic would hurt them more than help them.

---

Well, it may not be as hard as a current mythic. Just because they dubbed it a "mythic" doesn't mean it will be made in exactly the same fashion as previous mythics. In fact, I would bet it has an entirely new quest based in adoulin, very likely requiring large ammounts of bayld and plasm and nakuul kills and so forth. I think the term "mythic" was just used to imply that it would be a job specific weapon custom tailored for run (or geo).

I really don't believe that they'll manage to fix run up to be a tank, even when all's said and done. I feel like in the end, it will likely be adjusted to be what it is now, a support DD. Just a better and effective support DD. It is really hard to tell where run will be when all is said and done. They are still such a new and very unfinished job. I just know I'll be watching closely. One day it might be one of those jobs you find at least one of in each alliance.

......then... it's not really mythic, is it? If it doesn't use the same quest line as other mythic weapons, it's not a mythic. It will be given a new name just like how mythics aren't called relics and empyreans aren't called mythics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

*Yawn* Doesn't rambling on and on about what job is useless get old with you professional endgamers?

I've actually played the job, unlike you worthless theorycrafters from the forum that shall go unnamed, and see RUN as good in what it was DESIGNED to do: take magic damage that other jobs couldn't take and minimize any magical damage they might otherwise take.

---

Which is therefore one of the weakest niche designs you could use on a job that is essentially supposed to tank.

It'd be one thing if RUN, PLD and NIN had perks on top of being viable tanks for content, with PLD being sword and board, NIN being shadows and dodge and RUN being able to absorb/mitigate magic better than either. What appears to be the problem is that the job is seemingly designed to mitigate magic and only magic. And even then, as pointed out earlier, it is rather clunky.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

......then... it's not really mythic, is it? If it doesn't use the same quest line as other mythic weapons, it's not a mythic. It will be given a new name just like how mythics aren't called relics and empyreans aren't called mythics.

---

I don't see any particularly good reason why that's true. I believe "mythic" describes the nature of the weapon, rather than the way of acquisition. Keep in mind, this is the first time in ffxi history that a brand new r/m/e weapon has been added to the previously existing ones, and there's no written rule that states all future weapons must come from the same quest. Just food for thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calamity

I don't see any particularly good reason why that's true. I believe "mythic" describes the nature of the weapon, rather than the way of acquisition. Keep in mind, this is the first time in ffxi history that a brand new r/m/e weapon has been added to the previously existing ones, and there's no written rule that states all future weapons must come from the same quest. Just food for thought.

---

oh what is this here...http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

ps. i believe they will add mythics for run and geo in the past they have said the relics were made without pup/blu/cor/dnc/sch in mind so they dont get them. this cant be true of a weapon that is specific to your job~ unlike relics and empys there is more then 1 weapon of each type there are 3 dags, 3 swords, 3 staff, 2 h2h, 2 Marksmanship, 1 axe, 1 ga, 1 gk, 1 polearm, 1 scythe, 1 club, 1 katana. :) could always add a gs and another club