DRK is 3x more OP than vanilla WAR's Ukko's Fury

Anyone understand that? it's all just numbers to me with no explanation of what they mean

He's copying from Moten's sheets, absolutely no context for where those numbers came from thus their open to manipulation / interpretation.

One thing I really don't like about Moten's sheets is there is no time limit. It's assuming a monster with infinite HP. Thus damage is averaged over the period of it's recast rather then over the actual length of the fight. Take a proper zerg, the NM is dead in under 3 min. Soul Eater's damage should then be averaged over the length of 3 min instead of it's recast of 6 min (if it was even taken into account to begin with). LR / Berserk / Aggressor and such should be counted full time as the entire fight was within their duration.

Also the context of this argument needs to be taken into account. As a job WAR tends to be more powerful then DRK over longer durations, DRK tends to be a monster in short burst damage scenarios. The only exception to this is during a MS / Savagery zerg which is once per 2hrs. The argument though was that WAR as better with a Ragnarok then a DRK was which is pretty false. There is nothing about Ragnarok that favors WAR over DRK, DRK's higher skill gives it more Attack / Acc with a Rag.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

w/ Legion we found DRK would destroy WARs mainly cause we PDed every mob and you can use Mighty strikes once but you can use Souleater every 5-6 mins.

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Teach your WARs to cycle Blood rage and you can keep it up 100% of every fight, that levels the playing field between WAR and DRK white damage, but WAR still has the superior 2 hour, Stronger WS, and sometimes loltomahawk.

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Originally Posted by saevel

The argument though was that WAR as better with a Ragnarok then a DRK was which is pretty false. There is nothing about Ragnarok that favors WAR over DRK, DRK's higher skill gives it more Attack / Acc with a Rag.

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A 99 Ukon is also better than a 99 Ragnarok for WAR, except for some situations where mighty strikes is active. I dunno why you guys keep talking about GS WAR, but thats not what good WARs use 99% of the time.

And ya, Ragnarok is only better for WAR than DRK when Mighty Strikes is up, normally its not.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Anyone understand that? it's all just numbers to me with no explanation of what they mean

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+1

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Originally Posted by Meldity

i'm getting kind of tired of seeing the endless drk's with great swords in jueno from the community forcing it down their throats.

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I also get tired of seeing people try and do the best they can, and not using lame scythes just cause they look darker and more goth/emo/whatever the crybaby kids are into and calling it these days like its a new trend.

Why are people complaining that Dark is overpowered.... than Warrior. Big fckng deal lol. Some jobs are better for some situation, and a well geared player who knows how to play their jobs well always overpower the bandwagon ones. Next you know, all these haters will complaint about Perfect Defense and Embrava is overpowered, and then soon, Whm is overpowered as healer as well.

Taint those numbers mean very little to me since there's no context honetsly i'll just put it down to an opinion I disagree with.

Either way i think the point your trying to make is

When Haste, Atk and Acc is capped WAR > DRK with Ragna which is something i couldn't clearly tell ya cause in my experience of those place WAR will use a ukon over a ragna

But in most cases attack matters ALOT considering resolution attack penalty on the WS

w. attack bonus dif and skill it's 75 attack boost over WAR (13% attack bonus since it's applied before buffs)
then another 40-70 attack from endark.

Then your looking a even bigger difference when DRK is /WAR and i'm not talking about stacking LR and berserk i'm talking about staggering the recasts so that you always have a attack bonus up meaning at the least your couple 100 attack over a WAR and at other time you have 100+ 25% attack bonus over WS

As for acc it's not so hard to cap but there are still times it matters and when it does matter i'm sure DRK will pull ahead vs a Ragna WAR.

As a summary in my opinion

When Attack, Acc or haste (any 1 of the 3) matters the DRK is better with a gsd than WAR with a gsd outside of 2hr

And from all the new content i've seen Limbus, Legion, Odin V2 ect attack and accuracy matters alot and there are mobs there that use dispel so haste matters as well.

As for WAR w/ Ukon vs DRK w/ Ragna i'd rather not discuss that on a forum lol

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Then your looking a even bigger difference when DRK is /WAR and i'm not talking about stacking LR and berserk i'm talking about staggering the recasts so that you always have a attack bonus up meaning at the least your couple 100 attack over a WAR and at other time you have 100+ 25% attack bonus over WS

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This depends on the situation. In zergs / smash fights you always stack berserk / LR as staggering them has no benefit. The fight should be over in 3min. Legion is the exception as it's nothing but a series of PD zergs and thus you will have a time when your damage goes down, that's the only time I would recommend staggering berserk such that it wears right when LR is up again.

For Ukon vs Rag, that really depends on the target. Rag has higher WSC and total fTP, Ukon can crit. If your target has a ton of LCF (120 for example) then the spike in pDiff from critical Ukon's will have them doing more then Res's.

2.2 - (1.05 LCF) = 1.15 as the highest cRatio you can get. A crit would make it 2.15, an 86.95% increase in damage before CAB it taken into account. That's where Ukon get's its strength from, those massive crits, especially on the first hit.

i was basing it off the situation i believed taints numbers were aimed at of a drawn out fight cause in a 1-3 min fight outside of using 2hr DRK has more of an advantage so i was discussing the case when DRK would actually be competing with WAR which is a drawn out fight.

Personally i have LR and SE recast merited 5/5 most of the time cause in general it's better for me tho it's not hard to switch for legion or playing /SAM considering the 30 merit cap and u only need 15 merits to switch.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Teach your WARs to cycle Blood rage and you can keep it up 100% of every fight, that levels the playing field between WAR and DRK white damage, but WAR still has the superior 2 hour, Stronger WS, and sometimes loltomahawk.



A 99 Ukon is also better than a 99 Ragnarok for WAR, except for some situations where mighty strikes is active. I dunno why you guys keep talking about GS WAR, but thats not what good WARs use 99% of the time.

And ya, Ragnarok is only better for WAR than DRK when Mighty Strikes is up, normally its not.



+1



I also get tired of seeing people try and do the best they can, and not using lame scythes just cause they look darker and more goth/emo/whatever the crybaby kids are into and calling it these days like its a new trend.

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I'm getting tired of people eyeballing on resolution dmg but aren't looking their white dmg/speed.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

i was basing it off the situation i believed taints numbers were aimed at of a drawn out fight cause in a 1-3 min fight outside of using 2hr DRK has more of an advantage so i was discussing the case when DRK would actually be competing with WAR which is a drawn out fight.

Personally i have LR and SE recast merited 5/5 most of the time cause in general it's better for me tho it's not hard to switch for legion or playing /SAM considering the 30 merit cap and u only need 15 merits to switch.

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Considering your using a -8% attack weapon skill, the extra 10% attack on LR tends to be worth more then 60s recast on SE, especially as you won't be riding SE outside of PD / Fanatics or if you got your own dedicated WHM.

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Originally Posted by Detzu

I'm getting tired of people eyeballing on resolution dmg but aren't looking their white dmg/speed.

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I'm not entirely sure what I said that you have a problem with, or why you think you can talk about 'eyeballing' and provide nothing to prove you're right, but perhaps you could be more specific and then get back to me so I can prove you wrong. All I'm saying is:

For WAR, Ukkos Fury will pull ahead of Resolution unless youre using mighty strikes, because it has a superior TP set or hit build or both, and will do barely less actual damage, which will amount to more damage over time because you will do more Ukkos than you would of done Resolutions.

Having WARs and using Blood rage on every mob in Legion will keep up with/surpass the gains from using Souleater every third mob.

The best WAR will outparse the best DRK.

Which of these do you have a problem with exactly?