The DD Balancing Game

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Originally Posted by Foldypaws

It's the same strength as a BLM.

Your BPs without TP don't do the same damage as a BLMs spell for two reasons. 1) BLM wears a bunch of MAB gear and staves, on top of their traits. 2) The BPs aren't spells. They're elemental WS that just happen to share a name with spells.

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they should though(at least atm) simply because we can't fire off our BPs nowhere near as fast as a blm can with their magic. TBH though, I'd be fine with where my damage is right now, I just want more frequent use of my BPs than I do. I.E. give each BP their own cooldown, that will help out SMNs the greatest. I'm not saying my damage is crappy, my merit BPs without tp do 3k+ and full TP they do 4500+(without the set bonus procs which doubles those #s, but i have an extremely well-geared smn) which is similar to a blm. However, BLM can do roughly 5~8 spells in the time it takes for our Bloodpact: Rage to recharge, and then they can just erase their hate. So I think if they aren't going to change the BP system, they should definitely increase our damage, but if they DO change the BP system to each BP has it's own CD, then the damage can stay the same.

*shrug* I'm just explaining that the mechanics are consistent. Not saying that makes them *good*, or that they shouldn't change, just that they do match up.

I leave my balance complaints for THF and DRG these days >_>

heh I would like to see some love for DRG :< i miss my dragon!

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Originally Posted by Sutiban

NIN = DPS nin would use Innin. I don't know about others but my nin gets enmity really quick standing behind a mob and doing a critical hit every hit add into that doing a ws about ever 10 seconds and now the DPS nin is actually Tanking. Defeats the purpose of using Innin at this point. Innin should have an enmity - effect on it so the nin can focus on elemental spells(if it already does and/or has this, then it needs boosted). San spells don't do any where near the same dmg as Tier 3 BLM spells so they need a slight boost. NIN also has the most Catagory 2 merits to pick from. Sange, Nin Tool Expert, and 6 elemental San spells....need to balance the # of "abilities" in Cat. 2 and/or make the 6 San spells learnable from ra/ex scrolls that need to be quested and add 2-4 more abilities to get from the gap the san spells would make. I wouldn't mind seeing an actual Throwing weaponskill(or a couple) that can be learned via merits....would actually make Sange useful since it would use up the shadows you have left to throw something(up to 5x dmg on ws if you have +2 boots).

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Oh man, how did I miss making fun of throwing ninjas the first time I replied to this.

Innin actually has a -enmity effect to it, the problem is that every mob in the game is either so weak you can't use Innin, or so strong even with Innin you do crap damage and should of played a different job. The only correct answer to fix Innin, is to allow it's use from the front.

San spells are sort of in the same group as Innin, and suck. You shouldn't be using them except for trying to proc in voidwatch, and I along with most ninjas think we have enough to do and don't want nuking to be made super good, it's fine how it is, if you really want to use it, no one is stopping you, but it's less effective then meleeing.

Ninja has the worst catagory 2 merits to pick from, you're required to put 1 into each san spell for Voidwatch, and sange/throwing is absolutely terrible and not worth using at all, and there is no reasonable way to fix this, so the rest you dump into ninja tool expertise. Higher damage san spells doesn't help anything, so you might as well try and save some gil.

As for why sange/throwing isn't useful:
I've posted the math like 15 times int he ninja forum already, and I don't feel like looking for it again, but you lose damage by throwing, and you also loose damage by using sange as opposed to just meleeing. So don't ask for it to be better, it just isn't happening because of the nature of ranged attacks and how they work. Also, throwing weapon skills cannot be added, SE said so.

I do agree completely with your statement of 'remove san spells from merit catagory2 and give us something useful,' its pretty aggravating that NIN merits (tier 1 and tier 2) are such crap and completely useless.

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Originally Posted by Foldypaws

It's the same strength as a BLM.

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replying to clear confusion.

let me 1st remind you about nukes. unlike blms, 1 element is not stronger than the other for summoners. this further contributes to why blms nuke higher. all avatar tier nukes have exactly the same damage output (excluding said mobs resists), and same said for merit magical pacts.

2nd, avatars do not have a magic attack bonus trait. if they do, than it's the same as a drk or a sch. magicial pact damage varies with tp. the tp stands in for the trait. but as you know 1 element is not stronger then the other so even with 300% tp, blms still perform better. if you want the same mab as a blm theres only 1 thing you can do, get nirvana.

in continuing with se's smn tradition of giving smn tier 2 nukes at level 10 and tier 4 nukes at level 60, i think se should give smn tier 6 nukes at level 99.

sure they'll all do the same damage but it will sure make blms jealous. ;)

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Originally Posted by rufuslupus

2nd, avatars do not have a magic attack bonus trait. if they do, than it's the same as a drk or a sch.

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No, you're wrong. On two counts. 1: DRK and SCH don't get MAB traits. 2: You can easily test how much MAB avatars have natively by looking at the damage change from adding Avatar MAB merits.

At level 95, adding 5 avatar MAB merits increases magical BP damage by ~ 7% (1.5/1.4), not 10% (1.1/1.). You can verify this with gear with avatar MAB on it as well.

BLM have 40 MAB in traits at 95, just like Avatars.

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Originally Posted by Foldypaws

No, you're wrong. On two counts. 1: DRK and SCH don't get MAB traits.

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thx for explaining the joke in that closing sentience.

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BLM have 40 MAB in traits at 95, just like Avatars.

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but then wouldn't fervor ring that gives ifrit "magic attack bonus" not work then?

your saying that the avatar already has the mab trait without merits, so the trait given by that ring shouldn't be granted because ifrit already has it.

of course if it does stack that just means that se messed up the english translations on avatar bonus granting items. the ring should really say +4 mab.

Fervor Ring gives Ifrit MAB +2 as far as I know. The wording on the item is confusing and misleading, like many other items.

I dont think drk is under powered there pretty good at damage ppl just dont know how to control there damage lol

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

I dont think drk is under powered there pretty good at damage ppl just dont know how to control there damage lol

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We can be very good at damage dealing, but it requires a lot of high-end gear and knowing the job more than in-and-out. Timing your swings so that you keep swinging through your casting animations is 1 example. knowing exactly when you should use certain abilities(looking at you Souleater and lolScarlet Delirium...) as well as, if you want to be considered a good DRK, being able to stun any TP move that needs to be stunned.

But back to the point, it's just so much easier to be a good WAR, SAM, DRG, MNK, or any of the other melee for 2 reasons: They don't have to worry about spells(unless it's for Utsusemi, but that's easy). Then they have extremely favorable WS stat mods and mostly better WS fTP mods(i.e. Guillotine is .875 across the board, Pentathrust is 1 across the board, or Drakesbane, or Raging Rush, or just about any other decent and better WS has better mods than most of what DRK has by comparison). Something that DRK needs is an easier time and less gimmicks, instead of frantically trying to do everything that the job is capable of(while trying to keep impeccable timing to not mess up their DPS swings). The idea behind the DRK was sacrifice for gain, being a Spellsword of sorts and a glass-cannon, but the sacrifices we make aren't proportional(Souleater, for example, may do exactly as it says it does, but we die that much faster instead of killing our mob). However, WAR is a cannon with little downside and can tank with basically no sacrifice. SAM can be as well and can tank. DRG can be a cannon as well, with very little hate gain and can heal fairly well. MNK can be the high-powered machine gun that can tank. Ninja is Ninja, if you're good you're good; if not, learn to be good it's not hard. THF is like ninja, but more damage. BLU is a monster if it spams spells(and is geared well), a very good staple if being conservative. BLM is also a monster than can wipe it's hate then start being conservative. RNG is very powerful and idk why more people don't play it as well as COR(other than the BS prices for ammunition).

Maybe make the gains greater for the sacrifices that DRKs make. not too much, just a little boost would be nice. Some ideas that have recently popped up for DRK seem nice, but they need to be executed correctly.