Odin

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

Exactly my view regarding Odin and our 2hr abilities in general. They clearly have no idea how typical SMN feels about SMN's 2hr (Alexander being the only real useful thing out of all now).

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Yeah. I really feel like there's absolutely no reason for Astral Flow to be so horrible. It detracts from what SMN have stood for in pretty much every FF game to date... Except XII and XIII.... they handled summoning HORRIBLY in my opinion. Maybe it stems to the concept of the way SMN are from XI.

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Yeah. I really feel like there's absolutely no reason for Astral Flow to be so horrible. It detracts from what SMN have stood for in pretty much every FF game to date... Except XII and XIII.... they handled summoning HORRIBLY in my opinion. Maybe it stems to the concept of the way SMN are from XI.

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Summoner's can't be too powerful because it will break the game.

I think with the recent game changes, instead of making avatars like Odin that at one point in 2009 was all the rage because it would deal 9999 damage and knock 10% off the grind NMs to speed up kills, they should revise summoners to be more self sufficient and boost astral flow as an extended ability.

So shift the discussion away from (the next wasted 2hr Astral flow avatar with 1 buff or 1 ability) to a more powerful class of avatars that can be used for an extended period of time with the use of Astral flow.

Imagine Odin with regular summon perp, summonable only with Astral Flow, but sticks around for the duration until he is killed, dealing decent damage, perhaps with certain Wards and Rage pacts that are considered 'useful' to the group.

That would make Odin useful and AF useful and desirable without breaking the game.

Now, apply this idea to other new avatars.

It's not about being too powerful through. It's about doing the relative proportionate damage. I'd be fine right now at 95 if an astral flow blood pact does 3 to 3.5k of unresisted damage to a regular mob that's weak to it. 2k to 2.5k at the most against NMs weak to the element of the per astral flow blood pact. When you consider the average damage (I don't have the math on this. >< Can refer to others for it.) on average blood pacts, it's not to much to ask for them to do at least 500 - 1k more damage over average blood pacts with out consideration of blood boon. I shouldn't be doing 2.6k average with a merit blood pact and 1.5k with an astral flow.

On to that, I some what agree. I don't mind having 3 minutes to control avatars like Odin under astral flow vs just one use per 2hrs (or less with COR 2hr, revits, or ISL in abyssea). Honestly, if he could prove his worth over other avatars, I wouldn't care if we couldn't even control his actions directly with a set AI. Go in, trample stuff, use one or two blood pacts then finish with the two hour ability if he's uncontested some what like the espers in FFXI. That would make him unique enough in his own right. Of course, that would never happen. Apparently Odin is useful some where, according to the Rep. I guess it comes down to figuring out where.

I haven't used Odin in a long time, but does it still take up to 10% damage on most NMs?

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Originally Posted by Dekusuta

I haven't used Odin in a long time, but does it still take up to 10% damage on most NMs?

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I think that's 10% at the most and those are generally weak to dark element. Kinda working off what I've been told. I used Odin against an NM once and cried. D:

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Originally Posted by Soranika

I think that's 10% at the most and those are generally weak to dark element. Kinda working off what I've been told. I used Odin against an NM once and cried. D:

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Yeah Odin is most effective when NM is fresh as the damage formulae appears to be based on actual HP not total HP and it appears to decrease in damage exponentially below HP% thresholds. Unscientific but when we used to Odin spam certain NMs, NM below 80% health is usually see weak returns.

That said, 3-4 SMNs have opened Odin against Odin (Einherjar) before and we took 15~25% off (I can't remember if it was 15 or 25%) but it did shorten our run significantly.

I'm just not sure how the rules are now.

easy fix for odins 2hr.... change it altogether so odins usual 2hr is darkness AoE like all the other avatars but has a chance to instant kill, say for example you use odin to deal darkness aoe to a group of 10 mobs, and ends up with 7 mobs taking darkness dmg and 3 of them being instant killed, can also use it this way for single mobs like having a 30% chance of instant kill and 70% chance dmg. NM targets obviously only take darkness dmg.

there ya go... FIX

Seriously are ppl nit-picking? None of the suggestions will make odin any better and nothing is wrong with it to begin with. His narrow path is better, helping him not miss on humungous pulls. Odin is better to use for killing slept adds that you didn't want than any other avatar. IF any avatars need a change its the celestial ones >_>

Also i think he was designed the way he is so 4-10 scrub smns cant just role in and take off 40% of a nms hp that would be dumb, I'm glad he dont turn nms into easy mode >_>.

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Originally Posted by Soranika

Maybe it proves Odin was just a fanservice for us to shut up about "SE, y u no give us new avatars?"

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No. Odin was to give us "New avatars that can stay out longer", don't you see it? At least that was what we all were waiting for those 2 years it took to add them.

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Originally Posted by Zemarin

Seriously are ppl nit-picking? None of the suggestions will make odin any better and nothing is wrong with it to begin with. His narrow path is better, helping him not miss on humungous pulls. Odin is better to use for killing slept adds that you didn't want than any other avatar. IF any avatars need a change its the celestial ones >_>

Also i think he was designed the way he is so 4-10 scrub smns cant just role in and take off 40% of a nms hp that would be dumb, I'm glad he dont turn nms into easy mode >_>.

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Yup, ain't nothing wrong with Odin in that my regular BP will do more dmg on a more consistent basis without it being a once every 2 hr ability.

In any meaningful cases where an SMN 2 hr ability is called upon now, it would be for Alexander and wont be Odin.