Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I do this all the time.

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My friend and I as well, and so does the LS I'm in as well. Maybe it doesn't work for him and that's the real problem?

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Originally Posted by Zagen

That guy must have missed the lesson on sleep nuking during all that EXP he got, oh wait...

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Guy also thought that haste gear lowered provoke recast, thats a totally different story.

yeah right guardian i don't believe you lol

Hey man, I learned while leveling RDM the old way people like haste and refresh! I also learned that if I cure people they stop dying!

In all seriousness... absolutely nothing done from exp grinding will contribute to make someone a better player. I can guarantee you that if you give me any job I do not have currently with the correct gear (note not choices, I will know what to use) I can play that job better than majority of the server within 3 hours. It basically comes down to how quickly someone can adapt and learn given new situations. I'm sure some people will disagree with me but some players are just stupid with the choices they make and it's as simple as that; no amount of grinding will make a stupid player any less stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kazen

Hey man, I learned while leveling RDM the old way people like haste and refresh! I also learned that if I cure people they stop dying!

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Hmmm I learned that if I didn't cure them they died and would complain less about needing haste while it was still on them...

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

yeah right guardian i don't believe you lol

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Look, there's 3 types of people in this game. 1) People who can think for themselves, who can develop strategies on the fly given information. 2) People who can't come up with strategy, but can follow orders. 3) People who are retarded and can't even follow directions.

It's not that difficult for type 1 people to figure shit out without weeks of grinding some shitty job outside abyssea

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Originally Posted by Nacht

Look, there's 3 types of people in this game. 1) People who can think for themselves, who can develop strategies on the fly given information. 2) People who can't come up with strategy, but can follow orders. 3) People who are retarded and can't even follow directions.

It's not that difficult for type 1 people to figure shit out without weeks of grinding some shitty job outside abyssea

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This ^.

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I really want to know how you can think research and reaction time aren't the 2 most important things in this game.

If you are leeching I assume you have basic understanding of game UI and mechanics. If you can't pick up a job from reading then you must have a hard time absorbing information or you are too lazy to bother. The only thing that experience does for you is to teach you to respond better in crisis.

Regular exp parties do not teach you how to gear for a given situation. Argue all you want that it doesn't matter but having the best gear and merits for every job is important. You rarely see people learning this by just playing. The people that do usually spend hrs upon days testing things under controlled environments.

Reaction time is not relient on training in exp parties either. Even a new player will have a good or bad reaction based on their experience with videogames and possibly other things. What they will need to learn is what to react to and how to react to it. Again that boils down to research or instruction especially in endgame.

The only thing exp parties do is make you better at exping. On that note I believe that biggest lesson exp parties taught was to exclude all jobs that weren't popular because they slowed down exp.

Hm. I really am quite surprised how many people are against raising the required level to 70. Hell, even I leeched my summoner to 90, but because my only other 90 was white mage. I'd drive my friends crazy asking them to kill things for me. A little bit of insight into a game developer's mind: It is NEVER good when any part of your game is rendered obsolete. And it is not the fault of the players. They will do whatever it takes to level up as fast as possible, which is perfectly fine. So players preaching to players about what they should do is stupid. SE has made a bad decision which has now caused so many people to cheat their way to the top.

As a side thought: I had been wondering why the hell I have been getting an abnormal amount of praise on my white mage, who was 75 before CoP. Well, I guess I know why now.

And wow. 100+ pages.

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Originally Posted by Orson

The only thing exp parties do is make you better at exping. On that note I believe that biggest lesson exp parties taught was to exclude all jobs that weren't popular because they slowed down exp.

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If it wasn't for abyssea there'd be a lot less pups running around because they couldn't get exp pts. Oh wait that is a negative on abyssea leeching. =/

I will say this after talking in the other thread

I would have preferred of SE making entry 70 or 75 in the first place. When I herd entry to it was 30 I was very confused.

Now that it is 30 people will defend it in saying that is how it should be. If it is changed to 70 or 75 would the damages be reversed? I really do not know if it is a good idea at this point.

I will say this though. I think its better for the new player if abyssea is 70 or 75, that could be part of the reason of lack of new people, even though we been getting lack of new people for a while.

I would like to know why SE thought it was a good idea to make it 30. I want to hear from developer, not player theory.

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Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel

Hm. I really am quite surprised how many people are against raising the required level to 70. Hell, even I leeched my summoner to 90, but because my only other 90 was white mage. I'd drive my friends crazy asking them to kill things for me. A little bit of insight into a game developer's mind: It is NEVER good when any part of your game is rendered obsolete. And it is not the fault of the players. They will do whatever it takes to level up as fast as possible, which is perfectly fine. So players preaching to players about what they should do is stupid. SE has made a bad decision which has now caused so many people to cheat their way to the top.

As a side thought: I had been wondering why the hell I have been getting an abnormal amount of praise on my white mage, who was 75 before CoP. Well, I guess I know why now.

And wow. 100+ pages.

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The amount of people leveling up new jobs was slowly dwindling to nothing, normal exp pts were already not that common right before abyssea came out. FFXI was designed for group play and the population of the game isn't what it used to be, which is making it harder to find groups. So of course they have to change things to accommodate the new smaller player base.

Imagine if they decided to announce the level cap change from 30-70 to enter abyssea in the next update.
Everyone would rush to burn every job they could/wanted to 90 before the update. Then after the update, no one would exp anymore, because most people have what jobs they want leveled up.

Its too late to change it now. You can argue whether abyssea 30cap was a bad/good idea, but changing it after being out this long is a definite mistake.

no use arguing with the lazies who want it all handed to them XD

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

no use arguing with the lazies who want it all handed to them XD

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Please attempt to use capitalization and punctuation. It takes far less effort than exping the old way.

just proving my point lol

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

just proving my point lol

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Was your point: people are lazy and want to read grammatically correct sentences?

I thought you enjoyed doing things the correct way. I just assumed that the bad grammar and such was because you were in a hurry to get your post done. If this is incorrect I apologize.

reading is effortless :P and if your reading your not too lazy but still . . . . lol i am typing like this to prove a point XD which you are falling in it just like everyone else will i am sure lol

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

reading is effortless :P and if your reading your not too lazy but still . . . . lol i am typing like this to prove a point XD which you are falling in it just like everyone else will i am sure lol

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The only point I'm seeing is that you are retarded.

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

reading is effortless :P and if your reading your not too lazy but still . . . . lol i am typing like this to prove a point XD which you are falling in it just like everyone else will i am sure lol

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Sure you are, keep trying to play it off like you meant to do it like that.

My opinion of lazy are the people unwilling to research their job, not the people who remove the pointless grinding.


edit - too bad pictures can't be posted here, this would have been a perfect opportunity to post that winning by losing troll pic.

like i said still proving my point . . . . .

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

like i said still proving my point . . . . .

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that you suck at trolling?

people that complain about grinding in an MMORPG, I will always find that funny. I don't care how you rationalize it, leveling that fast without experiencing the job properly, makes the player of that job poor. You can do all the research you want, but until you experience the job for itself, you have learned nothing, and no leveling from 30-90 in Abyssea is not experiencing the job.
Now for the players that do PL from 30-90, then go skill up, research the job, and then practice on mobs to learn some of the finer points, they are not as bad, and at least it shows that you are trying. Problem is, most do not do this.

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

reading is effortless :P and if your reading your not too lazy but still . . . . lol i am typing like this to prove a point XD which you are falling in it just like everyone else will i am sure lol

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So you are admitting to trolling? I think that's against the rules.

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

reading is effortless :P and if your reading your not too lazy but still . . . . lol i am typing like this to prove a point XD which you are falling in it just like everyone else will i am sure lol

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I read somewhere that reading gives you brain cancer.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

I read somewhere that reading gives you brain cancer.

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I read that on the radio one day last week I think while I was tanning.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

You can do all the research you want, but until you experience the job for itself, you have learned nothing, and no leveling from 30-90 in Abyssea is not experiencing the job.
Now for the players that do PL from 30-90, then go skill up, research the job, and then practice on mobs to learn some of the finer points, they are not as bad, and at least it shows that you are trying. Problem is, most do not do this.

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I'd rather start experiencing the job at 90. Take the following 2 players as an example.
Player 1 takes 2 weeks to level a job to 90 then takes another week experiencing the job, getting seals, etc.
Player 2 takes 1 day to level a job to 90, takes the rest of the week to skill up the proper skills, then uses the next two weeks experiencing the job, getting seals, etc.

Both players play the job the same amount of time. Player 1 has had 1 week of playing at level 90. Player 2 has had 3 weeks minus 1 day playing at level 90.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

people that complain about grinding in an MMORPG, I will always find that funny. I don't care how you rationalize it, leveling that fast without experiencing the job properly, makes the player of that job poor. You can do all the research you want, but until you experience the job for itself, you have learned nothing, and no leveling from 30-90 in Abyssea is not experiencing the job.
Now for the players that do PL from 30-90, then go skill up, research the job, and then practice on mobs to learn some of the finer points, they are not as bad, and at least it shows that you are trying. Problem is, most do not do this.

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How is it hard to learn a job? If they can't learn a job from playing it at 90 for a while, they wouldn't have learned it from leveling up 1-75 in normal exp
I'm seriously thinking people are forgetting how exp pts were. 80% of the time it was full of people who were horrible.

I don't recall many 75 knowing much about their job after they were done exping. It wasn't until they went endgame and started doing things with other 75s that they started to learn their jobs.

edit - I think what people are confusing is that normal exp pts 1-75 is not the same as endgame experience. Its a different style of play.

I guess the only way to find out if they could fully benefit from the job is give them a random job take them to abyssea at lvl 30 then have them go do something that job could normally do that isn't insanely hard but isn't insanely easy either, also have another person lvl a job the normal way and see what happens. . . . i bet you anything the person who lvled normally whether they lvled solo or by party based would succeed in 90% of the things required of that job. FFXI was built on a party based system which still holds true to Abyssea. . . But the game now caters to the player that wants everything NOW. The game used to cater to players who wanted to have fun in a party based and social environment who felt pleased with the accomplishment of there hard work to get something specific. Not only does partying build the edge on your job but also sharpens your skill to an ever changing group of people with infinite outcomes and possibilities . Not every party is the same so you learn something new every single party. With the tips and techs you learn from partying whether it be solo based or in a group are far superior to those who lvl a job in a day and study.Although it is true you learn way more advanced skill end game most of the chizzling and seasoning is done through your lower lvl partying.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

people that complain about grinding in an MMORPG, I will always find that funny. I don't care how you rationalize it, leveling that fast without experiencing the job properly, makes the player of that job poor. You can do all the research you want, but until you experience the job for itself, you have learned nothing, and no leveling from 30-90 in Abyssea is not experiencing the job.
Now for the players that do PL from 30-90, then go skill up, research the job, and then practice on mobs to learn some of the finer points, they are not as bad, and at least it shows that you are trying. Problem is, most do not do this.

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I can sort of see that for a complete noob this might be the case but let's not kid ourselves. More than 99% of the people that are leeching probably have leveled a mage and a melee job to 75 most have leveled Whm, Blm, War, Nin, and every other common sub to 37 pre-abyssea. What can't you learn in the first 30 levels of the game that you will learn in a party to 70-75?

Completely ignoring that are you saying you couldn't just glide through regular exp being completely awful? That's the point that people seem to be missing. There were a plethora of Brds, Rdms, Sams, etc. that were basically power leveled by getting multiple parties and they'd keep getting invited even if they were terrible. Now if you really want to get down to the heart of it. The fact of the matter is it's just the terrible players have a far greater variety of jobs to suck at.

+75 yes plz

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

I guess the only way to find out if they could fully benefit from the job is give them a random job take them to abyssea at lvl 30 then have them go do something that job could normally do that isn't insanely hard but isn't insanely easy either, also have another person lvl a job the normal way and see what happens. . . . i bet you anything the person who lvled normally whether they lvled solo or by party based would succeed in 90% of the things required of that job.

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Umm dude, it really depends on the person. Also Way to use opinionated percentages.

I've known countless people who have abyssea burned jobs and are ten times better than other people I know that have leveled the "old way."

Its all about how much effort the person wants to put into the job. Not how they gained exp.

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Originally Posted by jeffanddane

I guess the only way to find out if they could fully benefit from the job is give them a random job take them to abyssea at lvl 30 then have them go do something that job could normally do that isn't insanely hard but isn't insanely easy either, also have another person lvl a job the normal way and see what happens. . . . i bet you anything the person who lvled normally whether they lvled solo or by party based would succeed in 90% of the things required of that job.

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You clearly don't realize just how retarded people can be. Whether or not someone succeeds is entirely based on whether or not the person is retarded or not.

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Although it is true you learn way more advanced skill end game most of the chizzling and seasoning is done through your lower lvl partying.

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No. All you learn is how to act during a lower level party.

Prior to mid January, I had never leveled a melee job past SJ levels. I leeched Nin from 49-90. I also PL'd myself on ninja (along with other linkshell members) while dualboxing a whm and didn't bother tanking to get to 49 (prior to abyssea). So prior to mid January, I had no experience tanking mobs.

A couple weeks ago I dual boxed Yaanei Nin+Whm with little to no trouble. Where did I learn the skills to succeed at this? Dual boxing seals and other shit at 90.

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Granted, yaanei isn't the most difficult mob in the game, but that's the most recent example that I could think of.

Obviously players should have to go back and play like the "good olde days"; I don't mean that players should go back to the colibri parties etc... we should go beyond that! Let them experience the true hell of leveling to 75 in Moon/Krt when it took a lot more exp to get to 75 than it does now and you did so at 5k/hr at best. Oh the joys of the game before the addition of worthwhile gear and acc food. What fun is was to fight the same weapon type mob for over a minute.

I would hope it's obvious but I have my doubts on the merits of some of the posters here to pick up on sarcasm. I highly doubt most of them had the "true" FFXI experience as they call it. Maybe that experience has made me one of the "elite" they like to categorize us as, however, I feel that it honestly doesn't make a difference. I have a strong suspicion that the same people here arguing for the cap to be 70-75 are the same people who can't even figure out the most basic of game concepts of haste gear, stp gear, gear swaps, etc. I also have a suspicion that the people for this are also the same group of people I see taking 18 people to mobs like Shen and dying horribly.

Isn't making baseless stereotypes fun? You can claim you need to grind to develop "true skill" all you want, but it won't make it anymore true; much like your choices to tp in str gear wont let that be superior to tping in haste.

in a way i agree. almost every zone in the game that is not abyssea sits empty and unused it would be nice to see them have purpose again.

Can one of you idiots give me one plausible reason why you should have the right to force your obsolete way of leveling on us. In the end we have no right to ask you to leech your jobs and your free to level your way.

Once again, if your so tired of seeing old zones empty. Then fill them yourselves; people sometimes like to cool-down from abyssea; or want to conserve stones or just want nostalgia.

Do it your damn selves before forcing it on the rest of the population

This thread got civil or is it still a stupid argument?

lol i do fill the zone myself i often walk around in those empty zones. how do think that i know they are empty lmao.

They should just raise the minimum level to 90 and make it cost 500K gil to enter..

I'm tired of all those underperforming jobs lower than 90 leeching exp off all us hardworking max level people.

It's not right and we need to take a stand !!1!!one