A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. From the original post I was under the impression that the TK wasn't being equipped for the entire duration of the fights. I also was making an assumption that a person would go for direct accuracy and attack boost over STR/DEX since only half of the stat actually goes to attack/accuracy anyway therefore more expensive to me but I suppose it still can be effective when str is compared to vit or dex to agi. I also made the assumption that triple attack % would be merited as well as critical hit and a person would have access to Assassin Charge so those wouldnt be as much of an issue. My fault for making those assumptions. In additon I dont really use anything that boost stats beside the pepto bismal armor from abyssea so I'm USED to doing WITHOUT those things on the regular.

2. Ok good point but I usually just dont ws and save the tp until reaching a decent mob to use it on then WS, then switch but that may not work for everybody I suppose.

3. Again making another erroneous assumption of being in the party and other ppl are still dealing damage along side with you. In the grand party damage/attack round 9 dmg/ attack round isnt that bad and even solo with thief high evasion and probably all the other evasion gear i'm sure many other ppl have as well. Again my fault for assuming but I guess i'm one of those ppl that have grown comfortable with dealing less damage and enduring longer battles as a result but not everybody has the stomach or patience for that so my mistake.

4. I was confusing how TH actually works versus how I would like it to work and have been lobbying for this change to TH alot lately. In any case I wasnt talking about the TH trait itself but the new effectiveness increases that raises TH 3 to 4 to 5 and so on if you are main thief without any equipment like the TK. Again sorry if I wasnt clear/specific enough.

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1. There is no assumption that will change the fact that equipping thief knife for however short of a duration == less damage.

2. Your hurting your damage even more by doing this.

3. Other people being in your party doesn't make it OK to suck.

4. Less TH is less TH no matter how you slice it. Starting out at a lower number will always mean you end at a lower number.

Please delete or change your posts. We really don't want anyone reading them and thinking that is how things work.

You basically said that you assumed everyone doesn't mind being gimp. You assumed wrong. And..

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

........NVM [Ignore the ignorant]

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.. that's not ignoring.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. From the original post I was under the impression that the TK wasn't being equipped for the entire duration of the fights. I also was making an assumption that a person would go for direct accuracy and attack boost over STR/DEX since only half of the stat actually goes to attack/accuracy anyway therefore more expensive to me but I suppose it still can be effective when str is compared to vit or dex to agi. I also made the assumption that triple attack % would be merited as well as critical hit and a person would have access to Assassin Charge so those wouldnt be as much of an issue. My fault for making those assumptions. In additon I dont really use anything that boost stats beside the pepto bismal armor from abyssea so I'm USED to doing WITHOUT those things on the regular.

2. Ok good point but I usually just dont ws and save the tp until reaching a decent mob to use it on then WS, then switch but that may not work for everybody I suppose.

3. Again making another erroneous assumption of being in the party and other ppl are still dealing damage along side with you. In the grand party damage/attack round 9 dmg/ attack round isnt that bad and even solo with thief high evasion and probably all the other evasion gear i'm sure many other ppl have as well. Again my fault for assuming but I guess i'm one of those ppl that have grown comfortable with dealing less damage and enduring longer battles as a result but not everybody has the stomach or patience for that so my mistake.

4. I was confusing how TH actually works versus how I would like it to work and have been lobbying for this change to TH alot lately. In any case I wasnt talking about the TH trait itself but the new effectiveness increases that raises TH 3 to 4 to 5 and so on if you are main thief without any equipment like the TK. Again sorry if I wasnt clear/specific enough.

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You know very very little about THF and this game. When you see a topic like this that you don't really understand, instead of taking the time replying to it using your gut you should learn about the conversation we are having before you decide to take part in it and end up being wrong on a level that is rarely seen.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

1. There is no assumption that will change the fact that equipping thief knife for however short of a duration == less damage.

2. Your hurting your damage even more by doing this.

3. Other people being in your party doesn't make it OK to suck.

4. Less TH is less TH no matter how you slice it. Starting out at a lower number will always mean you end at a lower number.

Please delete or change your posts. We really don't want anyone reading them and thinking that is how things work.

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1. No arguments here totally agree
2. I disagree if the mob is so weak that using a ws can one shot it with the ws and also preventing th from procing on the mob then to me that is a viable solution since it will probably be dead in like 30 seconds anyway for the nexxt mob. You are effectively saving that damage for the next mob and still giving a chance to maximize drops.
3. Assuming one is dual wielding going from 80 damage between 2 daggers to 71 damage from 2 daggers is hardly sucking and is still considerably contributing to killing the mob and building tp all the same unless either of the weapons have some sort of latent or additional effect like "occassionally attacks 2 -4 times" and that isnt even counting the natural triple attack with or without merits.
4. That is why I wish they expand the effectiveness effect of main thief to the entire zone and not just the mob like how composure where it only wears off after 2 hrs or when you zone so people can just do away with the knife altogether

As for the rest of that I will neither delete or change any of my posts as nothing I said is politically incorrect, racist, sexist, agist, derrogatory, hate speech or anything else protected by law and well simply put you dont run me. Take it up with the mod or something because that is the only way it is getting changed or deleted. -_-

How you play down "You only lose a bit of DMG" is beyond me. Also how are you going from 80DMG to 71DMG? Swapping out a STR Kila+3 to a Thief's Knife loses 17DMG and 10STR. The 10STR will equate to another 2-3DMG meaning you're losing 19-20DMG, and the 17DMG on the weapon means you drop 2 weapon ranks on that offhand wepon. That is absolutely huge. Playing it down so much like you are suggests you have done no research into how the game works.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

How you play down "You only lose a bit of DMG" is beyond me. Also how are you going from 80DMG to 71DMG? Swapping out a STR Kila+3 to a Thief's Knife loses 17DMG and 10STR. The 10STR will equate to another 2-3DMG meaning you're losing 19-20DMG, and the 17DMG on the weapon means you drop 2 weapon ranks on that offhand wepon. That is absolutely huge. Playing it down so much like you are suggests you have done no research into how the game works.

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Not only that, this is still Lv95. At 99, and further down the road, more better daggers will be available. However, the fact that Thief's Knife has TH on it won't change. Which means, to get the most out of TH, we'll be forced to gimp our damage more and more with every further update. He's completely understating everything without any evidence at all.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

1. No arguments here totally agree
2. I disagree if the mob is so weak that using a ws can one shot it with the ws and also preventing th from procing on the mob then to me that is a viable solution since it will probably be dead in like 30 seconds anyway for the nexxt mob. You are effectively saving that damage for the next mob and still giving a chance to maximize drops.

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If it dies in 30 seconds, you are not procing any treasure hunter increases after the initial hit. If it take longer to kill, you should have wsed.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

3. Assuming one is dual wielding going from 80 damage between 2 daggers to 71 damage from 2 daggers is hardly sucking and is still considerably contributing to killing the mob and building tp all the same unless either of the weapons have some sort of latent or additional effect like "occassionally attacks 2 -4 times" and that isnt even counting the natural triple attack with or without merits.

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See noodles post below

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

4. That is why I wish they expand the effectiveness effect of main thief to the entire zone and not just the mob like how composure where it only wears off after 2 hrs or when you zone so people can just do away with the knife altogether

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At least we agree that the knife sucks.

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Originally Posted by CapriciousOne

As for the rest of that I will neither delete or change any of my posts as nothing I said is politically incorrect, racist, sexist, agist, derrogatory, hate speech or anything else protected by law and well simply put you dont run me. Take it up with the mod or something because that is the only way it is getting changed or deleted. -_-

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I didn't tell you to change / delete it because it was derogatory, inflammatory (although judging by the responses it is to thiefs), racist, or sexist. You should delete / change it so that other people don't get the impression that it is true, and end up looking silly on another thread by repeating it. However, if you just like evoking angry responses and spreading fodder, by all means continue. Just know that everyone wants you to stop.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

You basically said that you assumed everyone doesn't mind being gimp. You assumed wrong. And..



.. that's not ignoring.

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I guess I need to rephrase that for clarity sake. What I am saying is that not every has access to or even want or feel a need for the best armor to get things done. Sure it probably would be best and wise but that doesnt exactly mean it is necessary to have. I guess I am just a glutton for pain though and don't expect others to endure what I do but I like experience near death victories myself and feel like I earned the kill instead of flat out owning mobs.

And that was apparently a failed attempt at humor BUT considering the lengthy post I had typed up before I deleted it and just posted that it kind of is ignoring him for me considering that fact.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

How you play down "You only lose a bit of DMG" is beyond me. Also how are you going from 80DMG to 71DMG? Swapping out a STR Kila+3 to a Thief's Knife loses 17DMG and 10STR. The 10STR will equate to another 2-3DMG meaning you're losing 19-20DMG, and the 17DMG on the weapon means you drop 2 weapon ranks on that offhand wepon. That is absolutely huge. Playing it down so much like you are suggests you have done no research into how the game works.

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Sorry I didnt respond sooner as I didnt see this post way down here. If one is referring to the individual damage you are dealing yes 17 dmg is alot of damage but come on most of the time you will only use the dagger for a few hits anyway before unequipping it for it to not really be that big of an issue. The only thing I will say and admit is I am unsure of what happens when u unequip the dagger after procing to a higher TH level. For instance if with the dagger equip I am at TH4 and I proc to TH level 5 then unequip the dagger will the TH level reset? I never noticed this because usually I never unequip the dagger in the first place if the goal is to increase the chance of a specific drop. Again I am probably more willing to accept the lower damage trade of to increase my chances of the drop so I dont have to be bothered with that mob again if I dont have to than other people so I can understand people wanting to unequip the dagger back for more damage. An alternative would be to increase your attack with meat mithkabobs but not everybody has cooking that high i imagine or want to either.

In any case I was including the fact of have Triple attack rate merited up, as well as miscellanenous gear and having assassin's charge for on demand triple attack as well. For the most part auto attack is nothing but a "place holder" for WS where the real damage is dealt anyway which is what everybody want to do anyway. Because I image most ppl just want to Dancing Edge, Evisceration, and Rudra's Storm their way to victory, the auto attack damage dealt is less of an issue anyway since the tp gain rate kind of averages its way out with the exception of "occasionally attack" stuff and latent effect stuff where the damage increases. The overall auto attack damage dealt is still relatively high when you factor in all those things especially when you are dual wielding and triple attack has the chance of procing for each equiped weapon.

Look I get it everybody wants the most base damage possible but correct me if I am wrong even to this day people still dont exactly consider thief as a "True Damage Dealer" anyway and daggers still have the lowest base damage of all weapons at the same level anyway so wtf is anybody crying about anyway? In addition if we talking about abyssea mobs..... really? With all the atmas and bs that crank up overall damage ... seriously? In any case it isnt about how much you indivdually deal to the mob anyway and people need to put their egos to the side and remember it is about the team working to defeat a common threat. Oh and I didnt even factor in Sneak and Trick attack either since I mainly solo and rarely use it. OOh and omg almost forgot in abyssea how the faster you kill mobs the higher level the mob respawns though there is probably a limit to it that I am not aware of and knowing SE style.

I guess I am just a little more willing to make trade offs and deal with things as they are than maybe other people are and that is why it "seems" as if I down play stuff to you guys as I have a higher tolerance for certain things than other people. For instance if I know the mobs strongest move only deals 600 damage even if it critcal hit I am more willing than most people to leave my around liek 750/1400 hp than others as I know I have the tp to heal back up fast. In fact I get kind of pissed of people use thier mp to heal me before that point, LOL. Guess I probably would be better off as a Paladin then huh, lol.

Oh in additon to all that but you can agree to disagree if you like but if keeping and maintaining damage was important wouldnt you be better off with a "lowers defense+15" dagger anyway than a str and attack stat boost since essentially reducing the mob defense essentially increases not just your damage but the party damage as a whole anyway? I mean everybody is so busy with the "who has the biggest $%%^ contest" over damage that is more important improve the PARTY overall damage than the whole "look at me look at me and the damage I do" bs that they forget about the party. Geez let go of your egos and focus on the party and just take the hit already. The party wont die because the output of the party goes from 550damage per attack round to 533damage from swapping out one little dagger.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

1. If it dies in 30 seconds, you are not procing any treasure hunter increases after the initial hit. If it take longer to kill, you should have wsed.



2. See noodles post below



3. At least we agree that the knife sucks.



4.I didn't tell you to change / delete it because it was derogatory, inflammatory (although judging by the responses it is to thiefs), racist, or sexist. You should delete / change it so that other people don't get the impression that it is true, and end up looking silly on another thread by repeating it. However, if you just like evoking angry responses and spreading fodder, by all means continue. Just know that everyone wants you to stop.

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1. Yea it is always a judgement call that is never really easy to make. Sometimes it is a good call sometimes it not such is life.

2. Yea I saw and replied. LOL I'm pretty sure people wont like it but that just how I see things so I'm sure there will be plenty of detractors.

3. Well yes but I was thinking more along the lines as the Treasure Hunter implementation stinks. If it was up to me I would keep the traits as it is as I have no problem with the trait itself and how it works. My concern is how the Treasure Hound effectiveness is implemented an being limited to just the current mob which is the real source of the problem. Personally I think this would be better:

Name: Connoisseur

Increases Treasure Hunter effectiveness and lowers evasion.

• Obtained: Thief Level 55
• Recast Time: 15:00
• Duration: 30-90 minutes

This would prevent it from being accessable as support job and increase drop rates from levels 55-90 when Treasure Hunter III becomes available which is really where all the good stuff to raise your crafts up start to become a factor. It would do just like composure and the effectiveness level wouldn't reset until you zoned. This would render the knife useless yes but then people can quit crying about it and use thier better weapons all the time.

4. Ok well in my short life so far, one thing I have learned is that just is no pleasing people and no really "right" way to say things. Some people will always be offended no matter how you preface or phrase what you say. Even still if there is a right way to say something it still wont change the fact that what is being said will still hurt none the less so at this point in my life I really dont see the point in wasting the energy trying to do that for annonymous people on a forum that I never see in game anyway. While I'm not here to cause a riot, I damn sure am not hear to stroke people egos, kiss a$$ or manage people emotions and reaction to what I say that is their job as a "Mature" adult, NOT MINE.

In any case, despite what it may seem or how it is interpreted some people are determined to see things a certain way no matter how contradictory the evidence presented before them is so save yourself the stress and ignore it.