Any new HNM coming?

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Originally Posted by Natenn

then quit QQ

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You're the one crying that you can't use your bot to control the endgame anymore, you quit.

while I've never been one for competition for NM's, mainly because I really hate losing, I will agree that I do want a new HNM of some kind. reskin's of khim, cerb, and whatnot are just getting a bit old for me. a small part of me wants to see a giant, demonic, wyrm-sized bunny rabbit. but I think that's just from my first experience starting off the game. tried to fight one of the stronger bunny's in the back of Ronfaure Dx. pretty sure someone from Bastok wouldn't mind seeing a massive bee of some kind.....or maybe they would. they've already done a really big mandy and a giant worm. hell, I've not seen any snake-type mobs in this game at all, unless pieste's count. anyone else got any fancy ideas on some giant god-slayer looking monster that we could fight?, think we've squeezed all we can out of dragons since Shinryu.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

That guy is right, there are two sides to this: The people who wan't everything handed to them and the people who want to play a game that has an actual challenge. HNM made the game exciting, if you like doing things where theres no competition or difficulty to it go play a game like My little pony or w/e. People running around in full Perle aren't endgame. I busted my butt getting all my kings gear/D ring/$ from SW and DI drops. Now all i see is quitters crying not to make new HNM with long windows because they were bad at claiming, so many ppl quit this game because HNM died out giving the competitive ppl nothing left to do, i know 5 ppl off the top of my head who would be back if HNM came back. I liked camping cause having the drops not many ppl had meant something. With abyssea things like Twilight gear are more common so theirs no prestige to them or those titles. I want things to be hard, not the easy boring stuff that abyssea has brought.
And i know ppl botted because enemy were on DS daily Purr

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Whats funny is you keep talking like HNM had some level of challenge. THE ONLY CHALLENGE HNM EVER PRESENTED WAS CLAIMING AGAINST BOTS. If you found any other aspect of HNMs a challenge then I feel bad for you. KA, Argus, VE, LL, Hoo Mjuu the Torrent just to name a few all had the same level of challenge during the RMT/bot glory days. You had a nice run. SE let you rape your fellow players for a number of years without consequence.

You're not asking for any kind of challenge you're asking SE to keep in place a system that rewards cheaters far above anyone else. You say others who dont like world spawn bot competition should go play something else but its your crowd that couldnt handle FFXI the way it was designed. You had to break the rules to get ahead because you lacked the ability to do so otherwise or at the very least the integrity to do so without cheating. You're asking for the dev team to help you feel better about yourself through continued content that rewards only those who refuse to abide by the ToS. ??? is your new notorious monster buddy. Don't like it? QQ quit.

hey, i will be the first to admit, the first time i fought fafnir i was like "OMG IM TANKING FAFNIR"

then after the 150th kill i was like "heh, 8 mins, we can do better next time"



if you SERIOUSLY consider the world pop hnm's to be "hard" and "challenging" then your "hnmls" fails at life and should stop camping in the first place, wait, are you in Kazoku, cause to kazoku adamantoise was serious business

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Originally Posted by Natenn

then quit QQ

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No matter how you cry I'm not going quit. Especially since the game is pretty awesome right now. You have start realizing you're the minority here and your ideas are terrible.

In fact you should probably just start your own professional whack a mole league. You can call your friends randomly at all times of the day and night to play but only allow them to play for a minute every half hr. People can pitch in $15 a month to buy sweet prizes like hoodies, hats, and bo staves. Of course you only have 1 prize a month for every 10 friends (only giving them 1 if they come enough.) Damn that sounds awesome, oh wait...

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Originally Posted by Orson

No matter how you cry I'm not going quit. Especially since the game is pretty awesome right now. You have start realizing you're the minority here and your ideas are terrible.

In fact you should probably just start your own professional whack a mole league. You can call your friends randomly at all times of the day and night to play but only allow them to play for a minute every half hr. People can pitch in $15
a month to buy sweet prizes like hoodies, hats, and bo staves. Of course you only have 1 prize a month for every 10 friends (only giving them 1 if they come enough.) Damn that sounds awesome, oh wait...

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more like, you have one person that gets a prize 4 months in a row while everyone else gets the shaft

I meant "Then quit QQing" not quit the game. I never botted, don't spread lies when you don't even know me. All im trying to get across is this: Make something competitive for us to do, theres no glory to be had in abyssea, everything in there is a joke to kill. Im sorry if you took it the wrong way but up to this day the only competitive thing to do was HNM. Theres no real reason for LS to exist anymore outside socializing, with the exception of PW/AV(drops outdated anyway), everything can be done with 3-6 ppl at 90. And if something is to easy whats to brag about? Nothing, i made a Kanaggi solo, big whoop 200+ ppl on server have 1 to. I want to beat ppl at something , i have always loved competitive things.

Personally I love HNM, I love the competetive nature of them.

If you don't, and you prefer Abyssea - that's fantastic. No one is asking to take away your easymode. Infact, I hope they continue to add more of it. But for those of us who do love to be tortured, cater for us too. You don't want to be apart of it, then don't. No one is forcing you.

I'd be quite content if they added new HNM that was a challenge to claim, and even more difficult to fight; even if they dropped items which were readily available in Abyssea.

What the Abyssea fanbois don't seem to get is that most of us aren't after an NM which spawns every 21-24 hours that drops some uber fantastic best of the best item that only one person will get once a week. No, what we're after is a challenging fight and a competetive claim (this can be across several zones to alleviate any chance of botting).

For those of you who want disproportionate rewards in comparison to the difficulty of the fight, you will have Abyssea and your Abyssea-Dynamis matrix; for the what, 10% of the player base who do enjoy HNM, would it hurt to add one or two in? Just like DI and SW were added a couple years ago.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

I meant "Then quit QQing" not quit the game. I never botted, don't spread lies when you don't even know me. All im trying to get across is this: Make something competitive for us to do, theres no glory to be had in abyssea, everything in there is a joke to kill. Im sorry if you took it the wrong way but up to this day the only competitive thing to do was HNM. Theres no real reason for LS to exist anymore outside socializing, with the exception of PW/AV(drops outdated anyway), everything can be done with 3-6 ppl at 90. And if something is to easy whats to brag about? Nothing, i made a Kanaggi solo, big whoop 200+ ppl on server have 1 to. I want to beat ppl at something , i have always loved competitive things.

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I enjoy a challenge but camping isn't challenging. I think adding some tougher NMs would be fine but the reward to time spent ratio as it stands is very good right now. If they introduce new HNMs they should not only have gear drops but have a point, badge, seal system that rewards players cumulatively. Even if it's a relatively slow process of earning the gear from the points at least you are gaining progress and you won't be the person unlucky enough to random poorly consistently.

At this point in the game how do you make challenging HNMs? SE is already riding the monster damage output vs the player's ability to mitigate and heal that damage on a razors edge. There's very few ways to make a NM harder without making it nigh impossible or require silly gimmicks like AV. If you do make a NM like that then you better be able to kill it otherwise most people will write it off out of annoyance. Making groups throw more people at a HNM is a bad idea too. Players do not want to be reliant on a full alliance to play any more. Smaller groups are the way people have been doing everything for the last 2-3 yrs. Definitely any worth while LS wasn't tending to need more than like 6-8 people for the majority of events and NMs.

Finally for people care about e-peen, I really wish would just straight up leave the game. Most people do want the best gear for many reasons but just to want the best gear so you can rub it in peoples faces is an egotistical attitude. It's the poor sport that wins and then bad mouths the competition and professes their superiority. No one likes that person but because they have the anonymity online they seem to forget how foolish it makes them look. Fair competition is fun but when the game is all about who has the most free time, the most friends, and best the bots I have a hard believing that's fair. Odds are if competition is your main draw to this game you're either solely focused on that far too much or you just don't have the skills to play true competitive games like RTS, FPS, Sports, etc.

@Dazusu
You can't cater to both crowds because as our friend Natenn shows us the whole reason that people liked the world spawns was the bottle neck it created on the best gear in the game. People who enjoy abyssea and other events like that tend to hate the idea of other players preventing them from getting the best gear. So what then, you add the best gear to both? You really think that'll make people happy? It's possible but automatically the world spawn fans will spout off saying well we have to camp these NMs like hardcore so the droprates should be worse off the stuff that you can just fight any time. In turn that'll piss off the people who prefer instanced/triggered content because they'll be pushed to go fight both because the droprates are far better on the NMs. So it's just lose lose.

Also you can't prevent botting. Maybe in theory you can but SE has put little to no effort into stopping bots. Bots progressively got better and more common. If you think that you have an advantage over a botter for stuff like DI/SW then no one has explained to you what some of these programs can do. POS hacking and other blatant cheating aside you can set up your system to alert you the second a monster pops from any where in the zone. Even if you're a fully leveled Rng avidly hitting your widescan you're probably at a disadvantage. Everything that you do that you consider skillful can easily be replicated and probably done better by a program for the most part. Even if SE did take botting extremely seriously it would almost be impossible to stop.

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Originally Posted by Orson

If you think that you have an advantage over a botter for stuff like DI/SW then no one has explained to you what some of these programs can do.

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You're right, a legitimate player will never outclaim DI/SW vs packet ID scanner, or staggered bots. I don't need anyone to explain to me how they work.

I enjoy the claiming competition and the challenging/rare fights.

There's absolutely no reason both types of player can't be catered for. It was done in the past, it can be done now (Kings : Salvage, as an example).

It's evident that some people really detest the HNM/old end-game scene, and that's fine. It's definitely not for everyone. For those who do enjoy it, letting it die is a shame. Again - no one is asking for Abyssea content to be removed, or for less of such accessible content. Keep it coming; but throwing in the odd HNM every now and then isn't going to hurt anyone.

MMOs in general are designed for people with varying levels of free time - and content available should match that. If you don't have many hours to play - then there should be easily accessible content available. If you are fortunate enough to have more time to play - then there should be tougher content available too.

It doesn't come down to "not having skill to play an FPS", that's just silly. Is it really difficult to believe that some people just enjoy that type of HNM content? We all have our own tastes, likes and dislikes. Don't impose yours upon others.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

hey, i will be the first to admit, the first time i fought fafnir i was like "OMG IM TANKING FAFNIR"

then after the 150th kill i was like "heh, 8 mins, we can do better next time"



if you SERIOUSLY consider the world pop hnm's to be "hard" and "challenging" then your "hnmls" fails at life and should stop camping in the first place, wait, are you in Kazoku, cause to kazoku adamantoise was serious business

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If you are talking about kaz on quetz i was one of the sack holders in there when Tony was around, and we never camped ada before d4. Also i hope they bring hnm back because you're tears are delicious.

kaz was on quetz cause they got tired of being the joke of bahamut, ask ANYONE on bahamut, i guarantee they will all say the samething

and im gonna go out on a limb here and say the only reason you didnt camp ada was because tony had everything he wanted from aspid, ask all his former minions from bahamut



and for all of you saying you want a "challange" go fight AV, or PW, world pop hnm's are a joke and have been for years

This Daz guy basically trying to tell me im a bad person for being competitive, i suppose everyone who plays sports are to cause theres always trash talk in something competitive, its a game RELAX. The pop warner type score a TD but get 15 yard penalty on kick off if you celebrate crap really irritates me.

As for never being able to beat a bot on SW/DI, i fought against at least 4 or 5 different LS and positive at least 2 botted since they had ppl where it died last waitin on death spot to move. You can talk botters up all you want i never lost to em, only LS who had ppl who could beat me was Kupo. (Pandemonium days) I never saw botters or heard of em using pos hack to get to NM first, any time i saw it claimed they would die in seconds cause they couldn't hold w/o shadowbind. Send those botters you QQ about to Asura id be happy to camp vs them.

If they had people where it died, they were doing it wrong.

Secondly, no one said you were a bad person for being competitive. That's part of why HNM were great - they encouraged competitive play. Good thing. Learn to read.

Finally who is QQing about botters?

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Originally Posted by Natenn

This Daz guy basically trying to tell me im a bad person for being competitive, i suppose everyone who plays sports are to cause theres always trash talk in something competitive, its a game RELAX. The pop warner type score a TD but get 15 yard penalty on kick off if you celebrate crap really irritates me.

As for never being able to beat a bot on SW/DI, i fought against at least 4 or 5 different LS and positive at least 2 botted since they had ppl where it died last waitin on death spot to move. You can talk botters up all you want i never lost to em, only LS who had ppl who could beat me was Kupo. (Pandemonium days) I never saw botters or heard of em using pos hack to get to NM first, any time i saw it claimed they would die in seconds cause they couldn't hold w/o shadowbind. Send those botters you QQ about to Asura id be happy to camp vs them.

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lol, cool story bro


you know what, you should sell your services, i mean the makers of all those bots were selling them, DUDE YOU COULD BE RICH, i mean with your mad botter beating skills, oh and by the way, since you sincerly believe that you can beat bots whenever you like, i have some land id like to sell you

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Originally Posted by Sureal

lol, cool story bro

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I like you.

well not on SW/DI anyway, on small pop area mobs yea but it broke even about. Don't be emo just cause you couldn't claim. I think your just bashing HNM cause you don't wanna lose. Put the haterade away bro.

lol, get over yourself, i was in one of the top hnmls's on bahamut for a very long time, Apkallu Vendetta, i fought everything enough, and there was no challenge in any of them after the first kill, and trust me, i claimed enough, and ill be the first to admit, i botted, cause you know what, YOU CANNOT RELIABLY BEAT A BOT, let me say this one more time, with emphasis, YOU CANNOT RELIABLY BEAT A BOT, and one more thing, ive heard the, im on ps2, excuse many many times by people who, /GASP, BOT, so im going to take all your posts and narrow them down


"/QQ I BOT AND NOW MY BOTTING DAYS ARE OVER AND I HAVE NOTHING TO DO ANYMORE BECAUSE I DONT HAVE ANY REAL SKILL IN THIS GAME BEYOND BEATING FAFNIR"


world pop nm's, as has been said over and over in this thread, are dumb, they do nothing but reward people who bot, anyone who says different is an idiot.

fighting these nm's was fun, the first few times, then it just got old and tired, being in an hnmls that camped everything i know firsthand, you have no game to play, you have no time to do anything for yourself, your camping hnm's AT least 9 hours a day, cause we all know when faf will pop, last window as always, you want a challenge, like i said, world pop hnms are not it, AV, PW, hell even dynamis lord was more of a "challenge" than any of the hnm's and that was only because you missed a stun and you were done, you miss a stun on faf and you can still kill him without thinking about it


one more time

WORLD POP HNM'S ARE DUMB AND YOU ARE DUMB FOR WANTING MORE OF THEM

kthxbai

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

You're right, a legitimate player will never outclaim DI/SW vs packet ID scanner, or staggered bots. I don't need anyone to explain to me how they work.

I enjoy the claiming competition and the challenging/rare fights.

There's absolutely no reason both types of player can't be catered for. It was done in the past, it can be done now (Kings : Salvage, as an example).

It's evident that some people really detest the HNM/old end-game scene, and that's fine. It's definitely not for everyone. For those who do enjoy it, letting it die is a shame. Again - no one is asking for Abyssea content to be removed, or for less of such accessible content. Keep it coming; but throwing in the odd HNM every now and then isn't going to hurt anyone.

MMOs in general are designed for people with varying levels of free time - and content available should match that. If you don't have many hours to play - then there should be easily accessible content available. If you are fortunate enough to have more time to play - then there should be tougher content available too.

It doesn't come down to "not having skill to play an FPS", that's just silly. Is it really difficult to believe that some people just enjoy that type of HNM content? We all have our own tastes, likes and dislikes. Don't impose yours upon others.

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Ok so let's see would you be fine with them putting in an extremely hard monster that you camped for 1-24 hrs with no spawn window? Then they make it so that if you fought that NM you can't fight the same NM that is instanced that you can pop every day? I'm talking the exact same drops and the exact same challenge just one spawns and one is instanced. You could put out the hardest NM in the game that had a 1-72 hr window and despawned after being up for 3 hrs but if it dropped the same gear as something that took you 1-72 hrs to farm a pop for you'd think this was unfair.

No, you don't like that? Of course you don't because the heart of your competition isn't about fighting over claims it comes from the wish to feel elite by getting the best gear that no else has access to. Sure maybe you couldn't spend quite as much time farming other portions of the game but it didn't block you from enjoying other content. Some players simply just do not have the time to camp stupid NMs that have obscene spawn schedules and putting the best gear on them is a slap in the face to those players.

Basically it's like I said you can't cater to both sides. Everyone actually enjoys playing the game as opposed to watching other people play the game. It will be impossible to find a balanced middle ground between these 2 ways of playing. Given that the majority of players will never get to take advantage of a truly bottlenecked HNM system you have more upset than happy players. So unless you can come up with something that is fair to the rest of the community world spawn style HNMs will never be popular with the majority. If SE does bring them back they will have a massive outrage on their hands to satisfy a tiny group of players.

As for it being about competition. You should realize, that as an individual you are not important when it comes to competing for HNMs. If you really have been claiming the majority of NMs it isn't skill. You're either extremely lucky, the rest of your server sucks, and/or you cheat like crazy. The HNMs you're talking about are just a contest of who has the most free time, the most friends, and the best bots. Argue all you want that it takes skill but you're just deluding yourself. The only thing that might take some skill is holding the NM until the mass army gets their so you can kill it before it rages.

If you actually were looking for challenge then you'd play real sports or games that actually relied on you having a quick reaction time like RTS, PVP, and FPS games. This game is terrible for PVP experiences all it has is the ability to stop other players from enjoying content. Which in most other MMOs is considered griefing!

You just admitted to botting, breaking ToS on SE official site, great job sir. Apkallu Vendetta? never heard of em. Bar AV i killed everything legitimately when the cap was 75. You need to calm down, all im sayin is id like some new content to compete for. You don't see me all up in abyssea threads damning them do you? Anything worth having is worth fighting for, otherwise everyone would have same gear ect.. Don't sit there and QQ about fairness and then come out and tell me you yourself bot. see: hypocrisy.

Simply answer me this Natenn. Would you be ok with competitive HNMs that had the same armor as instanced/triggered counterparts? Keep in mind that to be fair the time it takes to camp and fight the NMs would be approximately set at about the same either way you pursue. Then after that ask yourself. Outside of hardcore players that will just end up doing both for faster drops will anyone be doing the competitive HNMs?

GREIFING. not GREIVING. Two totally different words with toally different meanings.

Well there buddy, that defeats the purpose no? maby give the world pop one the /EX drop?

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Well there buddy, that defeats the purpose no? maby give the world pop one the /EX drop?

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"The purpose" being what? HNM monopolization, the thing that we're all trying to avoid?

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Well there buddy, that defeats the purpose no? maby give the world pop one the /EX drop?

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And there you have it the true reason you want "competition."

Whats wrong with wanting competition? I fight against third party tool users, i fight the good fight, easy out = no thanks.

@ Surreal, believe what ever makes you feel better friend. You do you, And im gonna do me. Don't camp new content if/when it comes if you dont like it, I'm sure they'll add stuff that appeals to your interests.

only one r please, thanks

I neither like or hate HNMs, but the general consensus is they suck. With the things are going, SE would rather appeal to the masses rather then a few hardcore players. I could be wrong and they add in HNMs next update, but i wouldn't count on it.

one thing i have yet to see mentioned, who is holding you back from camping fafhogg/kb/aspid/tiamat, you want you hnm's they are still there

you can get your ls and have claim wars, you can have one of them bot and you can outclaim them and rub it in and be all like "I BEAT BOTTERS ON MY PS2" and no one will care

/facepalm
whatever dood lol. I hope they add new set of kings or something at 99. You can QQ about the idea all you want. You just wanna have the last word in.

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Originally Posted by Sureal

one thing i have yet to see mentioned, who is holding you back from camping fafhogg/kb/aspid/tiamat, you want you hnm's they are still there

you can get your ls and have claim wars, you can have one of them bot and you can outclaim them and rub it in and be all like "I BEAT BOTTERS ON MY PS2" and no one will care

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Some people already have A:hands and W:Body and hauticlaires, so what incentive do we have to continue going to those outdated monsters though we enjoyed the content while it was still relevant

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Originally Posted by Fondle

Some people already have A:hands and W:Body and hauticlaires, so what incentive do we have to continue going to those outdated monsters though we enjoyed the content while it was still relevant

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The same incentive to enjoy outdated concepts such as contested world spawns with day-long respawn times

OMG lmao that sig is absolutely perfect for that post my good sir.

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Originally Posted by Orson

Stuff

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You just took what I said and twisted it about several different ways to make it sound absurd.

They could make a world spawn that pops every 5 minutes after death. That's accessible, no?

At what point did I say I wanted to spend 1-24 hours, or 1-72 hours camping a HNM?

For the players that don't have "time to camp stupid HNMs", there exists 9 whole zones of Abyssea. Fantastic!

What you're saying is (I'm paraphrasing you understand): "There shouldn't be any content that I don't agree with, or have time to do myself."

having world pop hnm's is broken, no matter what you do to it, if you have them spawn in the wild every 2 mins, there will be a ls that bots every claim, end of story

i really dont get why people are so against force pop nm's, the only, i repeat, THE ONLY thing you are "losing" is the claim battle, you still get the challenge of the fight, and /gasp, you actually get to fight, instead of standing in one spot for 3 hours hoping you didnt just waste your day, this game is not just for endgame players, its for everyone, some level 15 war newb pays the same money that you pay to play, why shouldnt they get a chance to experience everything, what makes you better than him, me, or anyone else, world pop hnm's advocate a distintion between players, those who bot and those who dont (and those who claim everything on ps2)

the first time i ever saw someone running around with a koenig cuirass i still remember to this day, i started playing at pc launch waaaaay back when, so when i got to jeuno the first time it was all level 40ish characters and such, prolly 2 weeks after i got to jeuno i saw a japanese player named Cobra wearing a koenig cuirass and i about drooled on myself, it took me a while longer to get to 75 and to get into a ls that actually attempted hnm's, but getting to camps we soon found out that a japanese ls fantastic impromptu basically had a complete stranglehold on all things endgame, this lasted for years, because not only did they have the best bots, but of course the had the ping as well from being in japan, this got incredibly frustrating, it wasnt until i was in a ls that said to hell with it, we want this gear too, that we did what we had to, we all got ps2's..., wait, thats wrong lol, like i said, we did what we had to, but we still couldnt get a steady claim rate until FI broke completely, literally 4-5 years of complete domination in endgame, bahamut was, being the first server online, very heavily comtrolled by japanese players, this was not fun, and put a deep resentment in me towards a few select players

i will be the first to admit that in the real world there are people that you just do not like, but this is a game, you should not literally hate people just because of what they are doing, THIS IS A GAME, i pay my money to do everything in this game, unless you want to contact SE and ask them to have some players pay less than you so you can have access to parts of the game that others do not, world pop hnm's need to die in a fire

sorry if thats a tad incoherent, its 8 in the morning

I feel bad for you guys from bahamut. We had an oldschool member that was with us for a couple months before vanishing back to WoW and the stories he would tell of bahamut in its infancy were far worse than anything I had personally experienced on Asura. Between your JP dominance than the later UAE shells I would hear about I kinda have pity for ya. Though granted like yourself I was and still in one of those LS's that took beyond the normal means to get those claims for drops and I have spent my time in the aery, dom, VoS, and pre-pandy merge through the past zones doing all forms of world spawns.

The trend in this MMO and what seems to be shown in others is less of the creation of the contested world spawns and more the ability to allow everyone equal access regardless of when their play schedule allows for. It worked for EQ AC and AO but that was almost a decade ago and the greater masses of players in the MMO market are sitting between casual and dedicated with a small hardcore fanbase. I really doubt a complany these days is going to go out of their way and re-alienate the larger fanbase to appease the few.

By no means am I personally against whatever current end-game SE decides to give us post 90 as already I am more than blindly ablidged to anything they give us be it another 3 king world spawn scenario or abyssea-esque time/reward system. Just stating that world-constested spawns are a dinosaur of MMOs, just as much as the holy-trinity of classes DD/healer/Tank. Though thank god the mindset of most of the community these days is to blend that dd and tank.

god, i completely forgot about Sisteforsek, or sister*bleep* lol, god they were horrid, they just did not care at all, bought characters, had all the bots, charaters got banned, GO BUY ANOTHER, and good lord were they terrible, wiping to fafnir was a reoccuring theme with them

For asura we either drove the JPs out with our heavy NA linkshells with bots or they really had all the drops from those mobs. Will and Armada were the only JPs worth a damn. Will only camped if their members needed something and Armada were tools. Altimus was the guy that joined us for a bit. Not sure if his name is known much these days. Though he might be back playing on bahamut now.

lol, yeah he is, he was in Apkallu Vendetta with me

All this talk about unbeatable botters gettin me excited i wanna fight em to