Weapom Skill Adjustments: What we have and what we need

That's a possible back piece. Surprised it didn't show up in the Store TP gear listings on ffxiclopedia.

Still, the difference is actually negligible. Considering thegear choices, I'd rather not try and work out the match, but at a glance at what the gear setup would be comparing a tactical mantle build to my build, I think my build would offer a little more power since you'd save a lot more +ATK that way and even have 1% more DA while not losing much other than Refresh while TPing.

Besides, you'd end up wasting STP using that back piece using the setup I have unless you completely replace another +6 STP, which would be the Tathlum with either Rose or Hoard. You'd need another+1 STP anyway to hit 33. Sure, you'd gain benefits of having some better gear in the slots that were replaced, but I think all of that gear added up won't beat out my way using Chivalrous or Attila's. At least with Chivalrous you get more than just +1 STP.

I'll do the math later. Like I said, this is at a glance.

one thing that i'll need to know is this: is quietus a 1 hit ws like cata? If it is then you have a fairly serious problem. one hitters are notorious for fucking up our xhit builds if you go for a pure dmg ws set.

with a 502 delay scythe add all the gear you listed + tactical thats 20.8 tp per hit (19.9 per hit without tactical).

Boy i don't envy you. 513 delay on apoc makes this much easier.

what are you ws'ing in with quietus?

Quietus is 3-hit. I also don't have it yet. I said I'm working towards finishing it. However it shares the same properties as Guillotine, so I'm just using my Guillo build for it when I get it.

well, with the gear you listed + tactical i get 20tp/swing (without carbonara)with a 513 delay scythe. if quietus is 3 hit then you should be able to use a pretty normal ws build and be fine.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Quietus is 3-hit. I also don't have it yet. I said I'm working towards finishing it. However it shares the same properties as Guillotine, so I'm just using my Guillo build for it when I get it.

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OMG LOL stfu kagato Q is a SINGLE HIT that deals triple Damage.

you WILL NOT 5 hit it w/o tactical mantle.

and your one of the people that always is saying our weaponskills are bad you dont even know what our weaponskills are


btw
Single hit
fTP 3.0 40% STR 40% MND
100%tp
10% defense ignored
200% tp
30% defense ignored
300%tp
50% defense ignored

20.8x4=83.2
meaning you need to get 17.8 tp from weaponskill to 5 hit WITH a tactical mantle durring TP

with just rajas ring brutal and rose strap you only get 17.0tp from weaponskill unless you double/triple attack you would need another 6 STP in waponskill gear to 5 hit meaning you would need to even WS in tactical mantle or other gear accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Jar

OMG LOL stfu kagato Q is a SINGLE HIT that deals triple Damage.

you WILL NOT 5 hit it w/o tactical mantle.

and your one of the people that always is saying our weaponskills are bad you dont even know what our weaponskills are


btw
Single hit
fTP 3.0 40% STR 40% MND
100%tp
10% defense ignored
200% tp
30% defense ignored
300%tp
50% defense ignored

20.8x4=83.2
meaning you need to get 17.8 tp from weaponskill to 5 hit WITH a tactical mantle durring TP

with just rajas ring brutal and rose strap you only get 17.0tp from weaponskill unless you double/triple attack you would need another 6 STP in waponskill gear to 5 hit meaning you would need to even WS in tactical mantle or other gear accordingly.

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thats my problem with catastrophe and why I have to use carbonara in my build. Its either that or use red curry bun and ws in some funky stuff.

btw, friend of mine has Redemption. He's well geared and all that knows the math. but quietus is so bad that 1 week after getting it he started on caladbolg lmao <_<

yeah i have to work around all wierd with Torcleaver with a STP atma to get the 6hit to work inside abyssea but its just so worth it <3

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Originally Posted by Dart

btw, friend of mine has Redemption. He's well geared and all that knows the math. but quietus is so bad that 1 week after getting it he started on caladbolg lmao <_<

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Yeah i did the math on redemption before I started my caladbolg and well as you can see i picked Caladbolg lmao

<3 caladbolg

honestly i'm probably going to be lazy and just use scorpion queen inside to maintain 6 hit, and just 7 hit outside and not mess with it. My spellcast is too long as is.

yeah 7hit outside isnt to bad the low delay makes it about as fast as 6hiting a scythe

yea im with dart 7hit it outside and maybe 6hit it or hope for DA/TA procs inside ive looked at everything i think i could and im pretty sure 7hit is gonna give better results considering sacrifices to 6hit

perhaps the next version update will introduce gear that allows us to 6hit it with capped haste, who knows

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Originally Posted by Dart

btw, friend of mine has Redemption. He's well geared and all that knows the math. but quietus is so bad that 1 week after getting it he started on caladbolg lmao <_<

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That's a shame, but I think it might see an update much like other Weapon Skills.

Also, I misread the wiki entry as a triple-attack. It's actually triple-damage so that means it's a single-hit.

But you said you get it without carbonara. I'll probably just pick up a tactical mantle for outside abyssea so I can eat a red curry bun, but inside abyssea I'd rather just stay with Atheling and eat a carbonara since reaching caps is too easy inside of there. I'm just not in any real rush.

Ultimately the big kicker is whether or not Souleater will be a full-time ability or not. If it is, I don't care how much -ATK gear I'd have on in order to gain STP.

And besides, I'll certainly know what to do once I obtain the thing. Right now is just speculation. There's only one or two DRKs on my server with Redemption and they're japanese, so consulting them is...well, lol.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

That's a shame, but I think it might see an update much like other Weapon Skills.

Also, I misread the wiki entry as a triple-attack. It's actually triple-damage so that means it's a single-hit.

But you said you get it without carbonara. I'll probably just pick up a tactical mantle for outside abyssea so I can eat a red curry bun, but inside abyssea I'd rather just stay with Atheling and eat a carbonara since reaching caps is too easy inside of there. I'm just not in any real rush.

Ultimately the big kicker is whether or not Souleater will be a full-time ability or not. If it is, I don't care how much -ATK gear I'd have on in order to gain STP.

And besides, I'll certainly know what to do once I obtain the thing. Right now is just speculation. There's only one or two DRKs on my server with Redemption and they're japanese, so consulting them is...well, lol.

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Looking at this You have NEVER capped attack inside abyssea or even tried too. it is not at all easy to cap attack.

On anything that matters your not hitting the attack cap even inside of abyssea, on higher Tier NMs even with last Resort I really notice the huge difference in lack of damage with torcleaver because obviously I am not hitting the attack cap.

999 does not = Capped attack, people knew this at 75. Attack actually goes higher than 999, its just that 999 is all that we can see. Ps2 Limitations!

After I 85 my Almace this week im going to actually build redemption just to have it, my scythes sitting at the chloris stage. Friend of mine has the Fake Empyrean/Quietus Scythe the WS really is not all that great :/

Ah, well perhaps the Redemption itself will make up for it. I've noticed that a lot of people who say the scythe and WS suck are usually basing it off the WoE/Fake version.

Personally, I don't care that much for Quietus anyway. I'm more in it for the weapon itself. Insurgency is really the scythe Weapon Skill that I like, but wish was better. Since I misread that quietus is triple damage and not triple-attack, that opinion is even more solidified than ever. I wouldn't be surprised if I still use Guillotine with Redemption.

Regardless, there are options. One way or another, the amount of Store TP needed needs to be met. I'll just say "the hell with it" and get everything and just test combinations myself. Personal experience and trustworthy sources are leagues better than hearsay and speculation. So yeah, I'll take the time and get the mantle and I'll still get everything else. Worst case scenerio is I sell some items back on the AH. Oh noes. :|

Anyway, appreciate talking with you, Dart. I just don't want this to turn into a topic about Redemption builds so I wanna cut the conversation here.

we do tend to get sidetracked don't we? Totally jar's fault /jarsignal

Liberator goooooooooooooooooooooo, I know Kirschy likes hers alot, in my opinion its the strongest scythe at the moment, hoping SE makes Mythics easier to obtain I would love to build one.

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Originally Posted by Dart

we do tend to get sidetracked don't we? Totally jar's fault /jarsignal

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If kagato Stoped barfing stupid i wouldn't have to correct him lol

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Originally Posted by Gradd

Liberator goooooooooooooooooooooo, I know Kirschy likes hers alot, in my opinion its the strongest scythe at the moment, hoping SE makes Mythics easier to obtain I would love to build one.

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Seriously? This is the first time I've heard anyone bring it up positively.

Most people are foolish idiots when they talk about liberator and don't realize its full potential.

At 75 it parsed on par with Apoc(without capped haste gear), the Key to all Mythic weapons is being able to ride the 300% OAT effect, this is what makes Ryunohige the monstrous weapon that it is for DRG. Kirschy would use insurgency keep the 300% AM up then spam guillotine during its duration, then right before it wore making sure to have enough TP to renew the AM. Now you can cap haste with it which pretty much guarantees it is better than Apoc. The 90 Lib has a 15% boot to Insurgency as well, so you would be spamming that instead of guillotine during AM.

on paper it can keep up, but practical application has shown otherwise. I'm not saying its a terrible weapon by any means mind you.

Thats what I'm understanding, Dart. However, let's see what it's 95 and 99 version brings to the table.

ive actually heard this too about liberator, not sure on which forum, was probably bg cus i rarely checked ffxiah before recently, but yea it was all about being able to throw the AM back up at 300tp just after it wears

Catastrophe

Problem 1: No longer full benefit from the Haste effect as regular gear will reach the cap.
Problem 2: Damage too low, a tiny dagger vs a monster blade which should do the most dmg?
Problem 3: If user is at 100% HP before WS, the drained HP will have no effect.

Solution 1: Put Haste aftermath in its own category which can reach a new "90% cap". (Or place it in magic)
Solution 2: Amplify the damage compareable to polearm/gkt/gaxe.
Solution 3: Surplus HP drained to be added to next attack as additional damage (similar to how Souleater is added, other additional effects will also proc with it) or stack it with Drain2 for a higher max HP.

Race plays a role in dmg of guillotine and insurgency so buffing one and not the other would only lead to no balance between respective races as far as dmg gos.

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Originally Posted by Habiki

Race plays a role in dmg of guillotine and insurgency so buffing one and not the other would only lead to no balance between respective races as far as dmg gos.

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i laughed pretty hard at this one

race means almost nothing bro

When inside abyssea nothing matters can go naked and out dd any dark on warrior why are you guys all so against raising the potential of all the weaker weaponskills just because some are quested and some arent doesnt mean they all don't need attention. I guess noone skillchains anymore so why have more weaponskills that are capable of doing damage.
SE just fix redemption forget about everything else only people who put 3 days into building their weapon should get to do good damage according to most everyone.

Apocalypse is amazing simply because of the disgusting low manning and soloing opportunities it brings to the table.

..................../sigh

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Apocalypse is amazing simply because of the disgusting low manning and soloing opportunities it brings to the table.

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yea right... You're only gonna do DC-T and even then you got huge downtime and even may end up with depleted mp. Cata do not make solo better. A DRK takes 100-200 dmg so the 300-600 drains from WS will only sustain you for a short time. Solo means no buffs! It's prob better to go /SAM, save TP, put up dread spikes, drain2, hack it down as fast as possible with a high dmg WS and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Madawc

yea right... You're only gonna do DC-T and even then you got huge downtime and even may end up with depleted mp. Cata do not make solo better. A DRK takes 100-200 dmg so the 300-600 drains from WS will only sustain you for a short time. Solo means no buffs! It's prob better to go /SAM, save TP, put up dread spikes, drain2, hack it down as fast as possible with a high dmg WS and hope for the best.

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Actually, solo means you're probably DRK/RDM, so you have your own Cure III, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Aquaveil, Blink, and Enelement spells (except Enlight).

guess what, I got all that. Still no go.

what i want is a change to great sword skill shockwave. (i know its an old one but ive only just strted lvling great sword and i noticed this one in particular could be better)

first off they should change it from radial to cone, like a breath spell seeing as you only swing the great sword in front of you. second i've noticed that the sleep effect doesn't always land and the tp effect says it only effects the duration. ..so 300% would be full duration...if the sleep actually hits! so i think the sleep effect should be 100% on non-dark/sleep resistant mobs. finally i think it should be made ranged so that once you sleep the monster you dont just hit it and wake it right back up.

if they made these changes i think it could pick up more use when soloing if you get aggro seeing as dark knight doesn't get sleepga, say if you aggro 3 monsters you could shockwave them, kill one then sleep the second with the spell when it wakes back up and move onto the third one.