My continued support of FFXI, and SE as a company.

I never said I got banned. Also I didnt report you for stating facts, I reported you for harassment. You dont really do facts too often by the way.

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

I never said I got banned. Also I didnt report you for stating facts, I reported you for harassment. You dont really do facts too often by the way.

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I hate to say it, but if they weren't satisfied with your performance they had a right to remove you unless you were paying for the privilege.

I see Bizarro deleted his post before I had time to respond. What a trooper.

Anyhow, so they technically didn't have the right to remove me under the ToS but I doubt that would be enforced. So instead of wasting my time calling a GM, I did the next best thing and alerted the playerbase to what amounts to a scam (although there are worse scams out there admittedly). Leading people on under false pretenses is scamming behavior. If they had been up front and just did gear check and asked for stats and denied me based on that, then that's no problem and if I had to, I would have formed my own party. But using people to sustain a run and then callously dumping people when it's convenient and when your alt/buddy needs is just wrong and if anyone doesn't realize that, then maybe they weren't raised right or something.

What part of the TOS entitles you to not be removed from a party?

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

What part of the TOS entitles you to not be removed from a party?

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I never said there was a part of the ToS that entitles me not to be removed. Read up and re-read what I had said please.

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

so they technically didn't have the right to remove me under the ToS but I doubt that would be enforced.

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Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying, can you clarify what you meant by this? Sounds like you're stating it's against the ToS to remove someone from a party.

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

I see Bizarro deleted his post before I had time to respond. What a trooper.

Anyhow, so they technically didn't have the right to remove me under the ToS but I doubt that would be enforced. So instead of wasting my time calling a GM, I did the next best thing and alerted the playerbase to what amounts to a scam (although there are worse scams out there admittedly). Leading people on under false pretenses is scamming behavior. If they had been up front and just did gear check and asked for stats and denied me based on that, then that's no problem and if I had to, I would have formed my own party. But using people to sustain a run and then callously dumping people when it's convenient and when your alt/buddy needs is just wrong and if anyone doesn't realize that, then maybe they weren't raised right or something.

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I didnt delete it, no idea what happened.

Based on our previous conversations you seem to have a grasp of the ToS, I'm curious where it defines, ". . .technically didn't have the right to remove me . .". Can you give us a specific line number or section where this is stated?

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Anyhow, so they technically didn't have the right to remove me under the ToS

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What? You can kick someone from a party for any reason as long as it doesn't constitute harassment or discrimination (i.e. kicking you because of race ethnicity whatever).

Kicking people from parties is a basic function of the game and is most certainly allowed under the TOS. It's only an issue if you are violating some other provision in so doing (i.e. harassing, as mentioned)

You'd be in for a particularly rude awakening if you tried to cite the TOS in an FF14 raid and the leader kicks you for performance. Sure, they technically can't use DPS meters as the basis (i.e. third party tool use) but if you're bad enough that it's observable to the human eye, then no- they have every right to optimize their group.

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Originally Posted by Beastorizer

(Which account am I on? Doesn't matter...)



Welcome to the Yoshi P Final Fantasy Era.



Imo (Just my opinion folks....), the failure of XIV ultimately damaged not only their revenue/earnings, but approach to Final Fantasy games from that point forward (It was not the Avengers which initially damaged SE.....). They began to abandon all conventional wisdom, for trendy mechanics. I challenge anyone to find a worst trio of successive FF releases this bad..........



XIV: Which initially failed

XV: Maybe the most hated FF

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woah woah, XV is a good game, story was good, would have been fantastic if they got to finish it, another example of SE shafting thier games.
was XV perfect? hell no, controls could be a nightmare but it was a fun game and i thoroughly enjoyed it.

13 should be here, i dont know WHY, i just dont get why they put so much money into that pants game and made 3, THREE of the darn things, just let it sit in its own dumpster fire please SE, it wasnt good, stop pushing it.

14 did fail initially, it was reborn with some promise and then swiftly started to throw itself off a cliff over time.
the jobs are mere shells of themselves, they removed everything that made the game interesting, subjob dealio is just gone now, skills are dumb and hollow... the game is basically WoW (yawn...) and the literally just keep taking story and content from other FF titles to shove into XIV to keep interest.... that just seems dumb imo.
i played through all of ShB and the entire time i was like "isnt this just CoP and Zilart from XI?" then im seeing XI models everywhere and when i was finally done with ShB story, i quit and resubbed to 11 again.

XI has more to do long term, 14 is boring, so very boring.
dailies are literally grinding out old dungeons over and over, leveling is literally old dungeons and doing your rotations OVER AND OVER and over and ...... you get it.
that isnt fun, that is borderline torture.

you are probably sitting there like "but in XI, its just fight and grind" in a sense you are correct, but youre missing out on something important here, XI made players connect back in the day, you would make friends, fighting any old mob for EXP was actually difficult to keep going and all in all, i enjoyed that, i dont have time for that now, but when i did, gosh it was good.
nowadays XI is fast to level and i get to change zones fast and mess with new skills and take things at my own pace and not feel locked into any dungeon or whatever just to level up, i dont mind this, i still have people to talk to, and thats the biggest thing i found between XI and XIV, people love to chat in XI, but in XIV, the servers i tried, it was just dead, no one wanted to talk unless you wanted to RP or they wanted something from you.
also Rotation? what's that? we do what we need to and we adapt, we change things up, its not the same 6 skills over and over, there is a ton of ways to do the same content and that is great fun.

XI WAS the highest grossing until a few years ago when XIV took over, but it took XIV over 6 years to do it, so yknow XI was and is doing well financially speaking.
and il say it now and every damn time, if they did crowdfunding for this game to get it updated or whatever, i guarantee they would get funds coming in from fans.
those that love this game, LOVE this game and i think thats so cool.
i wish the team behind XI now would realise how much of the west still love and play it, ive met so many, SO MANY EU and US players who adore XI, its a shame that the west doesnt see much of the fun stuff that the japanese get for the game.


also on the remark of XIV being more popular on its rebirth, you forget that XIV has a f*ckton and i mean a shedload of advertisement, even to this day. when XI came out, the only adverts i ever saw of it was in gaming magazines and even in those magazines back then, it was small and so rare to see, do you see adverts for XI now? no, and i havnt seen any adverts for FFXI in an extremely long time.
there is a vast difference to how XI was treated vs XIV on thier releases.

we could all harp on, day in and day out, but unless the team/SE stop faffing about and actually do something to help XI grow, we are stuck with what we get for now.

we all want XI to grow, we would love to see XI become more and more, just keep voicing it, keep letting them know, show SE how much this game is loved, maybe oneday they will see it the way we do, its a small hope, but you never know, XI has been in and out of maintenance mode many times, lets see what happens.

Some of you are arguing, and others are posting their thoughts on the matter, and for the latter, I am grateful.

I would have a lot to say,l but I am not a fan of people nitpicking my examples and trying to debate the minor details while ignoring the overall message, which is what I attempted to convey in the original post.

I want nothing more than to continue to support "Final Fantasy" the franchise that so many of us have devoted decades of our time and money to build from FFI to FFXI, FFXII and some others here and there removed or added by an individual.

One thing remains, that Final Fantasy as a whole stands for one thing, and the more recent titles are straying further and further way, albeit by different avenues, but as a whole still further than the previous.

FFVII was successful, not because of graphics, but because it had it all. A simple enough story to follow, with a vast world to explore with meaningful secrets, rewards, quests, hidden monsters, mini games, the whole nine yards.

What I do not get, is SE thinks they cannot make another game like that on modern hardware. They absolutely can. They just need to stop caring so much about graphics. You would think FFXIV 1.0, The Spirits Within, and other similar failures or short comings, coupled with the success of titles such as Minecraft or other low graphical games, would have taught them as much, but clearly not.

/shrug.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying, can you clarify what you meant by this? Sounds like you're stating it's against the ToS to remove someone from a party.

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I never said that. Scroll up. It was obvious I was referring to the specific circumstances in which it happened.

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Originally Posted by Bizarro

I didnt delete it, no idea what happened.

Based on our previous conversations you seem to have a grasp of the ToS, I'm curious where it defines, ". . .technically didn't have the right to remove me . .". Can you give us a specific line number or section where this is stated?

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Was referring to the specific circumstances in which it happened. It falls under In-game scams category.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What? You can kick someone from a party for any reason as long as it doesn't constitute harassment or discrimination (i.e. kicking you because of race ethnicity whatever).

Kicking people from parties is a basic function of the game and is most certainly allowed under the TOS. It's only an issue if you are violating some other provision in so doing (i.e. harassing, as mentioned)

You'd be in for a particularly rude awakening if you tried to cite the TOS in an FF14 raid and the leader kicks you for performance. Sure, they technically can't use DPS meters as the basis (i.e. third party tool use) but if you're bad enough that it's observable to the human eye, then no- they have every right to optimize their group.

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Some people need to read the context in which I was making the statement and stop trying to mischaracterize what others say. The circumstances in which it happened make it fall under In-game scams category of violation under the ToS.

My performance wasn't poor. It just wasn't what Euvedant/Lecroucond wanted. Please don't assume and stop spreading rumors. You don't know me so I'm not sure why you seem to be attempting to antagonize me with this stuff.

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Some people need to read the context in which I was making the statement and stop trying to mischaracterize what others say.

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What exactly is being mischaracterized here? You specifically and directly cited the TOS to say why you shouldn't have been kicked from a party. I can't think of any other context in which you could say that. If there is, well, that's on you for not being clear in your phrasing.

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My performance wasn't poor. It just wasn't what Euvedant/Lecroucond wanted.

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I'm not making any specific judgements about your performance, which is why I used the word "if." I wasn't there and I don't know how you did or what you did. But ultimately, if they weren't satisfied with what you were doing, they were entirely within the rules and their own rights to remove you. There are only very specific circumstances, such as the use of third party tools in making the decision, where it could potentially be a TOS violation.

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Please don't assume and stop spreading rumors.

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I'm not spreading any rumors. ?????????????

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Originally Posted by Tahngarthor

I hate to say it, but if they weren't satisfied

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Key word here is "if." But as I said, unless they are breaking some other rule, people can kick others from their party for any reason.

There is no rumor here to spread. I'm going entirely off what you have told us. I'm not pre-judging you, or really forming any opinion about you whatsoever. I'm merely stating the facts: If someone kicks you form their party, they don't want to play with you. They are free to make that choice. I'm not trying to antagonize you, only provide the facts.

Life sucks sometimes. I'm not saying you *deserved* to be kicked, I'm only saying they are within their rights to do so if they don't want you in their party- regardless of how well you did. And this is something I'm all too familiar with myself as someone who plays SMN rather unconventionally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What exactly is being mischaracterized here? You specifically and directly cited the TOS to say why you shouldn't have been kicked from a party. I can't think of any other context in which you could say that. If there is, well, that's on you for not being clear in your phrasing.

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You're mischaracterizing the context of my post. Specifically the fact that I was wrongfully kicked after investing time in the party and being misled under false pretenses what expectations were. I was perfectly clear in what I said.

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I'm not making any specific judgements about your performance, which is why I used the word "if." I wasn't there and I don't know how you did or what you did. But ultimately, if they weren't satisfied with what you were doing, they were entirely within the rules and their own rights to remove you. There are only very specific circumstances, such as the use of third party tools in making the decision, where it could potentially be a TOS violation.

I'm not spreading any rumors. ?????????????

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You said if I was "bad enough to the human eye" which was insinuating that my performance was bad. If they weren't satisfied they were within their rights to not invite me to another run after the potential 2 runs. That would have been fair because they didn't imply I was entitled to that by inviting me and not specifying beforehand.

Quote:

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Key word here is "if." But as I said, unless they are breaking some other rule, people can kick others from their party for any reason.

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They were breaking the in-game scams rule in the ToS.

Quote:

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There is no rumor here to spread. I'm going entirely off what you have told us. I'm not pre-judging you, or really forming any opinion about you whatsoever. I'm merely stating the facts: If someone kicks you form their party, they don't want to play with you. They are free to make that choice. I'm not trying to antagonize you, only provide the facts.

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You were saying my performance was bad. Thus spreading a pre-existing rumor and attempting to antagonize.

Quote:

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Life sucks sometimes. I'm not saying you *deserved* to be kicked, I'm only saying they are within their rights to do so if they don't want you in their party- regardless of how well you did. And this is something I'm all too familiar with myself as someone who plays SMN rather unconventionally.

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They are not within their rights to scam others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dihlyte

Some of you are arguing, and others are posting their thoughts on the matter, and for the latter, I am grateful.

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I'm not arguing. I got dragged into this topic out of nowhere.

Quote:

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You said if I was "bad enough to the human eye" which was insinuating that my performance was bad.

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Again: I said IF your performance was bad. I didn't say that I knew it was. I wasn't "insinuating" anything.

As I said multiple times in the last post: You can be kicked for a party for any reason. It's only reportable if you can connect some sort of harassment or abuse to it. Even then, it generally takes a long term pattern of behavior before SE will act on it.

I'm genuinely sorry that this happened to you, but as far as I can tell, no rules were broken.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Again: I said IF your performance was bad. I didn't say that I knew it was. I wasn't "insinuating" anything.

As I said multiple times in the last post: You can be kicked for a party for any reason. It's only reportable if you can connect some sort of harassment or abuse to it. Even then, it generally takes a long term pattern of behavior before SE will act on it.

I'm genuinely sorry that this happened to you, but as far as I can tell, no rules were broken.

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You were implying it by the context in which you used the phrase. I wasn't saying that if I was doing bad damage I should have stayed. You implied that I was. It is reportable if it is a scam. I'm sorry you aren't open minded enough to realize that rules could have been broken. Please read what others post before you respond. Thank you.

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You were implying it by the context in which you used the phrase.

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I implied nothing. You're reading too far into things.

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It is reportable if it is a scam.

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You haven't provided any evidence of a scam. Kicking someone becuase they don't feel they were contributing doesn't constitute a scam, and that's all you've given us to go on.

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I'm sorry you aren't open minded enough to realize that rules could have been broken.

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This isn't about being open or closed minded. You haven't provided any evidence that rules were broken. Aside from saying you were scammed, which you also haven't provided evidence of, I don't see any rule violations based on the information that has been provided up to this point.

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Please read what others post before you respond. Thank you.

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I read everything that was posted before responding. Thank you.

Pro tip: Don't accuse people of not reading. It just makes you look bad. In fact, the more I reread everything the more sure I am of my position. One thing is clear, the attitude you're presenting here doesn't instill in me a lot of confidence in your side of the story. You're making a lot of assumptions while rudely accusing others of the same.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I implied nothing. You're reading too far into things.


You haven't provided any evidence of a scam. Kicking someone becuase they don't feel they were contributing doesn't constitute a scam, and that's all you've given us to go on.


This isn't about being open or closed minded. You haven't provided any evidence that rules were broken. Aside from saying you were scammed, which you also haven't provided evidence of, I don't see any rule violations based on the information that has been provided up to this point.



I read everything that was posted before responding. Thank you.

Pro tip: Don't accuse people of not reading. It just makes you look bad. In fact, the more I reread everything the more sure I am of my position. One thing is clear, the attitude you're presenting here doesn't instill in me a lot of confidence in your side of the story. You're making a lot of assumptions while rudely accusing others of the same.

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It was clear as day what was being implied. All anyone had to do was read what you wrote. He didn't kick me because he didn't feel I was contributing. I was kicked because they wanted more profit from the whole thing and decided not to honor an implied agreement. That constitutes a scam.

Heres a pro tip: Maybe actually read what I wrote instead of trying to misrepresent things.

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It was clear as day what was being implied.

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I wasn't implying anything. You are making assumptions.

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Heres a pro tip: Maybe actually read what I wrote instead of trying to misrepresent things.

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Now who's not reading?

You are assuming things that aren't there. I haven't misrepresented anything.

You are being consistently rude and toxic towards me despite me making it very clear I wasn't accusing you of anything nor had I made up my mind. I've done my very best to communicate my thoughts in a clear manner without any hidden context or meaning, but you keep assuming th

But I have made up my mind now. Your responses to my posts have been rude and disrespectful, assumed meanings that simply aren't there, intended or not, and you seem to be assuming that I'm out to get you or something which is simply not the case. Until you provide some evidence to support your position, I am now assuming there is more to the story and you probably did something to make them want to kick you- not performance, but behavior.

You are assuming the worst in others and reacting negatively to people who didn't even have anything to do with your situation.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I wasn't implying anything. You are making assumptions.

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You were. You were implying that I was saying if my performance was bad that there still wasn't a problem with me joining anyway knowing that, which was never what I was saying at all. Don't misrepresent your past posts.

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Now who's not reading?

You are assuming things that aren't there. I haven't misrepresented anything.

You are being consistently rude and toxic towards me despite me making it very clear I wasn't accusing you of anything nor had I made up my mind. I've done my very best to communicate my thoughts in a clear manner without any hidden context or meaning, but you keep assuming th

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I haven't been rude but at the same time I'm not going to be friendly either to someone whos purposefully attacking me to score points with others.

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But I have made up my mind now. Your responses to my posts have been rude and disrespectful, assumed meanings that simply aren't there, intended or not, and you seem to be assuming that I'm out to get you or something which is simply not the case. Until you provide some evidence to support your position, I am now assuming there is more to the story and you probably did something to make them want to kick you- not performance, but behavior.

You are assuming the worst in others and reacting negatively to people who didn't even have anything to do with your situation.

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Yet more assuming from you. Big surprise. My responses haven't been disrespectful, you're just looking for attention and a way to stir the pot. Admit it. You're instigating things with people you don't even know and have no prior beef with. Good job!

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

Anyhow, so they technically didn't have the right to remove me under the ToS but I doubt that would be enforced. So instead of wasting my time calling a GM, I did the next best thing and alerted the playerbase to what amounts to a scam (although there are worse scams out there admittedly).

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I scrolled to your comment. I’m still confused how getting removed from the party is against TOS, please explain your logic so we can understand . Kthx!

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

I scrolled to your comment. I’m still confused how getting removed from the party is against TOS, please explain your logic so we can understand . Kthx!

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That quote was taken out of context. I never said it was. Don't stuff words in my mouth and actually read what I wrote. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

That quote was taken out of context. I never said it was. Don't stuff words in my mouth and actually read what I wrote. Thanks.

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what is the full context?

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

what is the full context?

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Re-read what I stated. I already stated the full context.

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

Anyhow, so they technically didn't have the right to remove me under the ToS but I doubt that would be enforced.

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What context are we missing that implies otherwise?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

Re-read what I stated. I already stated the full context.

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Link it please. I don’t see it.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

So you’re just avoiding our questions, just take the L and leave the conversation.

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I just answered the question. I think maybe you should stop trolling these forums. It's disrespectful to others.

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Originally Posted by Ahalee

I just answered the question. I think maybe you should stop trolling these forums. It's disrespectful to others.

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You might want to follow your own advice. I’m outta here.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

You might want to follow your own advice. I’m outta here.

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I don't troll other people. Not sure why you bothered to try to get under my skin for so long honestly.

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My responses haven't been disrespectful,

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I think you really should review everything you've posted here to evaluate why someone might say you're being disrespectful.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

what is the full context?

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They did LATER say that the reason for the TOS comment was because they felt they were being scammed. But there was no way for any of us to know that was what they meant prior to them mentioning that.

We can't read minds. We can only work with the words we're given.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I think you really should review everything you've posted here to evaluate why someone might say you're being disrespectful.

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I have and I wasn't being disrespectful. I think you should re-read what I posted.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They did LATER say that the reason for the TOS comment was because they felt they were being scammed. But there was no way for any of us to know that was what they meant prior to them mentioning that.

We can't read minds. We can only work with the words we're given.

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I had mentioned before that I wasn't referring to being kicked out of a party under any circumstances. I was just being less specific amount what exactly I meant by it. No one was asking anyone to read minds and it was clear I wasn't saying what you suggested I was.

I have to commend, and thank you for not continuing the shout drama lately. Outside of the other night, which as you well know I sided with you on, the channel has been back to merc shouts and the occasional ask for help/lfm.

Nothing and no one is ever going to convince you that you were wronged. Regardless of the logic that is used, or how many people tell you so. It is both sad and amazing, but obviously this is just you and your worldview /shrug.

Lets try this part one last time.

Sit down with me somewhere and let's go over sets to see where we can improve your output and survivability on DRG.

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Originally Posted by Bizarro

I have to commend, and thank you for not continuing the shout drama lately. Outside of the other night, which as you well know I sided with you on, the channel has been back to merc shouts and the occasional ask for help/lfm.

Nothing and no one is ever going to convince you that you were wronged. Regardless of the logic that is used, or how many people tell you so. It is both sad and amazing, but obviously this is just you and your worldview /shrug.

Lets try this part one last time.

Sit down with me somewhere and let's go over sets to see where we can improve your output and survivability on DRG.

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So, I personally don't feel that I ever started any drama in the first place. Looking back was doing the PSA shouts to try to deter people from joining Euvedant's party a mistake? Yes they were but only from the standpoint of it was a massive waste of my time and I could have been getting stuff done I actually wanted to do instead of getting ticked off for hours and hours at all the trash being spewed at me and then being further demonized by a fringe minority of the population and having that thrown at me as well.

Would I do it again if I had to do it over again? No way. I would have just let Euvedant shout and eventually tank his rep on a more protracted timeframe but the thing is I was genuinely caught off guard and my first instinct when I'm hit with all that vitriol is to fight back and respond defensively which contributed to a chain reaction of awful for hours on end. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say and in hindsight there is no way I'd do it over again knowing how much time I was going to waste and how pissed off I'd be with nothing to show for it whatsoever.

I'm not sure if that was a typo but I'm already convinced I was wronged. I've been convinced since it happened but the funny thing about the entire situation is that the vast majority of the /yells were not even me bringing up the issue. They were others bringing it up and then trying to pin the whole rehashed discussion of it on me as if I had brought it back up when I was just responding defensively to others' attacks against me.

I got a lot of people that supported me but I'm not gonna throw names out there because it's disrespectful to them and they get attacked. Funny thing though is none of it was supporting me over the Euvedant thing, it was more about how I was being ganged up on and attacked as viciously as I was; and I didn't mind that because I wasn't even that mad about the thing with Euve/Lec and Odyssey in comparison to all the unrelated insults and attacks that people were coming at me with out of nowhere that had nothing to even do with FFXI at all.

As far as gearing Dragoon. I appreciate the offer. I have read the Here be DRGs guide and having looked up some gear sets but I have been working on COR AF. As far as Dragoon though I am planning to upgrade gear based on that guide but I am always open to suggestions, just not attacks and I always have been.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I think you really should review everything you've posted here to evaluate why someone might say you're being disrespectful.

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This whole thread needs a chant: "Attica! Attica! Attica!"

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

This whole thread needs a chant: "Attica! Attica! Attica!"

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I don't get the reference.

What a shocker.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

What a shocker.

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I dont think most people would actually.

Pretty sure xi was their highest grossing game pretty sure i read that too but it was overtaken by xiv in 2014 or 16 cant recall

The deck is stacked in favor of MMOs as even a modestly successful one will earn more money over its lifetime than any non MMO will earn in sales. But at this point FFXIV has earned orders of magnitude more money than FFXI.

To be fair to the rest of the series, it would make more sense to look at sales. FFXI + all its expansions on all platforms (as each one is a sale) has probably outsold some of the earlier games but not more recent ones.