One thing that really pisses me off about the FFXI community

There are no short comings of the UI. It is perfect.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

What? Since when should it be counter productive to read an instruction manual? A good, well informed player should at least read how to interact with the game before diving head first. To claim the opposite is just plain asinine.

You keep claiming the UI is so convoluded, and contrived, but you hven't really given any examples outside that you just say it is. If you want a productive thread, come up with a comprehensible, coherent, logically sound argument; present it in a fashionable manner; and discuss the results. Do not insult those who think you made a poor attempt at presentation.

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No one reads manuals, and every game creator should always assume the players will not read it. Sorry, but i agree with him, anything that is not obvious, and needs to be explained should be explained within the game itself.

in a way i think Rog is right.

Its a good idea to cater to the llazy masses. Cause they are the majority. Maybe having basic things explained in the "Cutscenes" at the begining of the game.

How do other MMORPGs handle it? a Tutorial?

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Originally Posted by rog

No one reads manuals, and every game creator should always assume the players will not read it. Sorry, but i agree with him, anything that is not obvious, and needs to be explained should be explained within the game itself.

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That's one gigantic assumption. To claim -no one- reads guides, manuals, is just plain ludicrous. If the information is simply there in a small pamphlet right in front of your face, with you refusing to read it, and you can't understand how to navigate the game, then you are close minded.

Ok, but the vast majority of people never read any game manuals. The most likely people to read them are probably little kids who read them in the car on the way home.

I love how much "they" are stupid. "We" of course are perfect.

Sometimes i forget that not everyone watches RedLetterMedia reviews, Especially on Star Trek Movies.

But no, Really, How do other MMO's handle it? I guess it wouldn't be too hard to implement a "Tutorial" System in the first part. how to Heal, How to open Macros, How to access menu/items/Equipment screen, and how to Move wouldn't be too bad.

After that though.

I admit, FFXI has a shitty UI compared to other games, but there is really no point at all in fixing it now. It's way more work than it's worth. Plus, everybody who plays is used to it now, yours truly. It plays well with a controller.

Having a better more customizable UI would be nice, but honestly, out of the things I'd want for this game, it's at the bottom of my list. The only UI improvement I'd really, really like is a minimap.

The UI isn't great but I'm used to it. This thread is pointless.

Also if the game comes with instructions and you don't read them - you don't get any sympathy from me if you whine that you don't know how to do stuff. That said XI only sells as a download now, generally, so, there is no box to get instructions in.

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Originally Posted by Olor

The UI isn't great but I'm used to it. This thread is pointless.

Also if the game comes with instructions and you don't read them - you don't get any sympathy from me if you whine that you don't know how to do stuff. That said XI only sells as a download now, generally, so, there is no box to get instructions in.

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I bet no one in this thread remembers that, but from this point on its all they'll cite for reasoning.

On the topic of UI updates I would like to have a update to the macros. Think something was brought up in another tread bout them and I can't remember all of it. I understand if they couldn't add more lines to them cause of lolps2 but a command to add to the end of the macro to start the next one with the limit of it that it couldn't keep repeating it self and only could go up to 3 tops.

As for mini- map as long as i could turn it off when I didn't want or need to see it, I would have no problem with it.

In this thread: Why should user interfaces be intuitive when you can read the manual?

To me, it seems more like "Anyone who cares uses windower for the things they want." And anyone on 360 or ps2 doesn't know what theyre missing and most don't care lol.
Exp bars are annoying too, I don't want to be constantly reminded of how far I have to go, I hate that so so much.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Exp bars are annoying too, I don't want to be constantly reminded of how far I have to go, I hate that so so much.

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Information is annoying?

Me starting to thinks Rogs is simply playing the Devil's Advocate for fun.

It's probably because the topic is started with insults.

I personally like the UI the way it is, and I personally prefer this type of UI as to WoW's and all the other MMOs that have followed it.

That's not me being a child. That's just me disagreeing with you.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Me starting to thinks Rogs is simply playing the Devil's Advocate for fun.

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Actually, no. Not this time.

I do not understand why someone would be annoyed by relevant information.

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Originally Posted by rog

Actually, no. Not this time.

I do not understand why someone would be annoyed by relevant information.

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I think (Hope) He means "Cluttering your screen" kinda like how Pokemon has it under their HP bar.

I think its fine under the Status Tab as is.

If he's talking about having one at all, then yah i see your point.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I think (Hope) He means "Cluttering your screen" kinda like how Pokemon has it under their HP bar.

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That is an incredibly poor example.

But yeah, that can be annoying, depending on where it is.

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Originally Posted by rog

That is an incredibly poor example.

But yeah, that can be annoying, depending on where it is.

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Perhaps, First one that came to mind though. I'm sure this is when im suppose to ask "DO you have a better one?! "

And you do, Cause you know everything ever. but yah. Give me a better example cause I am kinda curious.

No sarcasm, I can't think of a game that Includes an Exp bar on the visual UI without requiring accessing some menu except Pokemon :|

Honestly I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around people not being able to figure out how to walk when they first started playing. For me I logged into the game the first time and hit the arrow keys when I saw that they controlled the camera I immediately tried the number pad since it also has arrows on it and I walked. Wow, not hard at all...if it took someone more than 30 seconds to figure out then they have bigger issues to work on than trying to figure out how play a game.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

Honestly I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around people not being able to figure out how to walk when they first started playing. For me I logged into the game the first time and hit the arrow keys when I saw that they controlled the camera I immediately tried the number pad since it also has arrows on it and I walked. Wow, not hard at all...if it took someone more than 30 seconds to figure out then they have bigger issues to work on than trying to figure out how play a game.

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It took me about 5 mins, but i was 11 at the time, and never really played any computer games before XI.

This is how i see the ff14 community hehe. Just stander fan boys/girls or what ever has though cat ears. This game (ff11) is to the point where you cant make much more changed with out making a new game altogether, so things are remembered as if one looks at there youth so there going to be a bloused view on it.

Has no one noticed the OP has stopped commenting? The troll did his job.....

That is not always an accurate indication of a troll.

The UI is not perfect but for it being designed for a controller in mind, it worked out well, as has FFXIV's (after some updates of course) Both these games where made for a controller as has the menus, but they keyboard controls are not too terrible.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

on a serious note, the UI is far from Perfect, But its also far from critically needing improvement. Right now half of the complaints about the UI are offered Via Windower, Truthfully SE could end the trouble if they just acknowledged Windower was okay to use.

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I can second this, if SE do not have time or w/e let players do it ( as long its not bot aps and so on) like wow does. I think wow even has a list of appoved aps or some list of accpected ones.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

What Friendly UI? How can it be user friendly if it doesn't Mimic WoW Piece for piece?

Stop talking nonsense.

on a serious note, the UI is far from Perfect, But its also far from critically needing improvement. Right now half of the complaints about the UI are offered Via Windower, Truthfully SE could end the trouble if they just acknowledged Windower was okay to use.

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maybe it is user friendly since it is better then ffxiv


there is this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l-Redundancies.
then the so called troll topic:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...t-and-mini-map

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Horrid example. The OP of that thread is an idiot/troll who spams the boards with 1-line threads. Anyone who's kept up with General Discussion at all is fairly sick of it; thus the responses.

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Why does it matter who makes the topic? why is it so hard to only talk about the issue despite who posts it? especially when it is a valid one.

as for main OP comment I think most people see FFXI UI has drawbacks, but it is not at the point of horrible where it needs to be redone like ffxiv. With that said I really do not get why you come out so aggressive in your OP.

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Originally Posted by Jackastheripper

Has no one noticed the OP has stopped commenting? The troll did his job.....

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I hope you realize it can be the other way around, some people are sane where they do not put up with crap, so he could of left from all the attacks.

Except for a split chat box and an option to drawn the UI 2x larger I wouldn't want to change anything.

I was being sarcastic on that "It cant be good if its not WoW!" bit.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Perhaps, First one that came to mind though. I'm sure this is when im suppose to ask "DO you have a better one?! "

And you do, Cause you know everything ever. but yah. Give me a better example cause I am kinda curious.

No sarcasm, I can't think of a game that Includes an Exp bar on the visual UI without requiring accessing some menu except Pokemon :|

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From time to time, I still play a decentish Diablo-clone by the name of Torchlight. It's fun when I'm in the mood to hack-and-slash through swarms of monsters for an hour or so.

It has an EXP bar along the bottom of the UI.

Diablo II does as well.

Thanks for reminding me of that game i now want to play. :|

IIRC, Rhianu is TaintedSeraphim from GameFAQs. He's been championing "proper design" on the FFXI board there for years, and leading to 500 post arguments over how everything should ideally work.

Read his threads there to see how this always goes. He's always against using an instruction manual out of the box, or even basic reading comprehension.

FFXI is user-friendly enough. I was able to figure out all the controls and menus I needed when the game was Japan-only and I couldn't read kanji yet. It behaves like most other FF games when using a controller. I don't know about the keyboard because I don't play any games with keyboard controls if I can help it.

There is lots of stuff that could be improved with the UI. Some of this is done by windower but then that isn't official.

For starters the UI doesn't show buffs / debuffs of your party or alliance members. Party frames don't have icons to show afflicted debuffs or doesn't offer any kind of color change to show a debuff.

Cooldown timers for my abilities would be nice.

When you target a enemy it shows very little information. No current HP/MP%, doesn't show what debuffs are on the mob or what buffs it may have on itself.

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When you target a enemy it shows very little information. No current HP/MP%, doesn't show what debuffs are on the mob or what buffs it may have on itself.

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Since when does it not show hp%? Also, mp% is useless, as the only mobs that ever run out of mp are drg wyverns, since they are war/drk.

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Originally Posted by rog

Since when does it not show hp%? Also, mp% is useless, as the only mobs that ever run out of mp are drg wyverns, since they are war/drk.

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I herd someone actally ran kirin dry lol

it does not show % hp you have to guess ( i am pretty good at it too)

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I herd someone actally ran kirin dry lol

it does not show % hp you have to guess ( i am pretty good at it too)

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That was like a 6 hour fight in 2005-2006 though, lol. It happens, but it takes ridiculously long. The only time it's ever really been implemented strategically was Aspir-spamming that Crawler BCNM30 way way back in the day.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

That was like a 6 hour fight in 2005-2006 though, lol. It happens, but it takes ridiculously long. The only time it's ever really been implemented strategically was Aspir-spamming that Crawler BCNM30 way way back in the day.

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I know but he said wyverns only, said nothing about practicality

Obviously it is possible to run anything out of mp, but realistically, it never happens on anything but wyverns, which have extremely little mp, due to only getting it from their sub job (which is drk, a low mp job no less). Everything else has stupidly huge amounts of mp. Knowing a mob's mp is really not useful.

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Originally Posted by rog

Obviously it is possible to run anything out of mp, but realistically, it never happens on anything but wyverns, which have extremely little mp, due to only getting it from their sub job (which is drk, a low mp job no less). Everything else has stupidly huge amounts of mp. Knowing a mob's mp is really not useful.

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oyru elementals/ worms..... back in the day anyway

not that useful but wow does it so why not? I think it would be a good thing to show buffs/debuffs on the mob though ( wow does that too)