BST ready/sic/reward range

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Originally Posted by Olor

I wouldn't be. We still can't gear for both master and pet. If they want us to engage they have to make us stop choosing which of us is going to whiff.

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15 yalm was SMN range before this ridiculous change so you would still have to run in but you need to time it. It's very doable while 5 yalms is just not doable either engaged or running in.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

15 yalm was SMN range before this ridiculous change so you would still have to run in but you need to time it. It's very doable while 5 yalms is just not doable either engaged or running in.

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Summoner does stupid high damage every 30 seconds. Bst does avg. Damage every 10 seconds. You can't run in and out in any meaningful way.

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Originally Posted by Olor

I wouldn't be. We still can't gear for both master and pet. If they want us to engage they have to make us stop choosing which of us is going to whiff.

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Being able to engage is ok, but beeing forced to is not.

Melee is alot more fun on other jobs, Beastmaster is, well, the king of beasts. And as such it's fun to through it on stuff, perform some actions with your beast and feel the power of it.
It's a bit boring in today's bst groups, yes, but solo or lowman it was fun and rewarding.
The range is part of it.
And this aspect is broken for me now, completly. You are in a cage now, not a master anymore.

... this besides all technical facts.

Best thing ever...

Hardcore BST players are already adjusting and picking up new ways to play. Bandwagoner's are falling off or attempting to really adjust. If you all truly love the job so much as you claim you do then you can adjust and figure out a way to work the system.

Try BST BST COR GEO WHM BRD You can melee and fight with your pet. You just cant be lazy and unprepared anymore and beat any content by never dying. I know you might have to learn what pets do what instead of Blackbeard Randy or Scissorleg Xerin spam everything. Its false that you cant play the job anymore and its false that it was always intended as a solo job. This is or was a MMORPG if your not sure what that acronym means look it up. Good BST will and can find spots in parties that work. Think outside the box.

I also think the change to SMN was stupid but then I melee on SMN so I guess I am weird.

Please don't insult other players.

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Originally Posted by Keido

Best thing ever...

Hardcore BST players are already adjusting and picking up new ways to play. Bandwagoner's are falling off or attempting to really adjust. If you all truly love the job so much as you claim you do then you can adjust and figure out a way to work the system.

Try BST BST COR GEO WHM BRD You can melee and fight with your pet. You just cant be lazy and unprepared anymore and beat any content by never dying. I know you might have to learn what pets do what instead of Blackbeard Randy or Scissorleg Xerin spam everything. Its false that you cant play the job anymore and its false that it was always intended as a solo job. This is or was a MMORPG if your not sure what that acronym means look it up. Good BST will and can find spots in parties that work. Think outside the box.

I also think the change to SMN was stupid but then I melee on SMN so I guess I am weird.

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I can see you live in a fantasy world. If BST needs 3 Buffers to be viable then it is broken. 3 Slots in a party just to give BST and Pet a chance at actually hitting the Monster. Do you know how ridiculous that is? Even with your fantasy setup of COR, GEO and BRD you will not hit anything on Zi'tah T2 NM's. Either the BST or the Pet will whiff not to mention they will be without a pet and dead in under 5 minutes.

Your fantasy setup might work for CP parties but not for end game content.

I got it. Add a 1200 jp gift that increases sic/ready and reward distance to 20'. The career bst's already have 1200 while the bandwagons only went to 100 and wouldn't care to spend the time to go up to 1200.

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Originally Posted by Keido

Best thing ever...

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And when they tell you NIN can only cast spells when you are 24 yalms away because your too powerful being able to use shadows near a mob... that would be the best thing ever right?

Taking a normal function and making it unusable is not the best thing ever, its poor design and needs repaired. BST is not playable for anything of value after this nerfdate and it needs undone.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

I can see you live in a fantasy world. If BST needs 3 Buffers to be viable then it is broken. 3 Slots in a party just to give BST and Pet a chance at actually hitting the Monster. Do you know how ridiculous that is? Even with your fantasy setup of COR, GEO and BRD you will not hit anything on Zi'tah T2 NM's. Either the BST or the Pet will whiff not to mention they will be without a pet and dead in under 5 minutes.

Your fantasy setup might work for CP parties but not for end game content.

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Not to mention that replacing one of the BSTs with a BRD and / or a WHM is a decrease of 33%~ in damage.

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Originally Posted by Keido

Best thing ever...

Hardcore BST players are already adjusting and picking up new ways to play. Bandwagoner's are falling off or attempting to really adjust. If you all truly love the job so much as you claim you do then you can adjust and figure out a way to work the system.

Try BST BST COR GEO WHM BRD You can melee and fight with your pet. You just cant be lazy and unprepared anymore and beat any content by never dying. I know you might have to learn what pets do what instead of Blackbeard Randy or Scissorleg Xerin spam everything. Its false that you cant play the job anymore and its false that it was always intended as a solo job. This is or was a MMORPG if your not sure what that acronym means look it up. Good BST will and can find spots in parties that work. Think outside the box.

I also think the change to SMN was stupid but then I melee on SMN so I guess I am weird.

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There will always be ways. But do they make sense? If you have whm cor geo brd you would take bst x 2 as DD? This is totally outside the box, here you are right. Would rather fill up the spots with 2x Blu and get powerful light SC with CDC back to back + its much safer. Magic barrier, barrier tusk, saline coat, ...all can be set while still having awesome damage output. Not to mention mighty guard. But maybe its "Hardcore" to go the inefficient route, what do i know.
Learning about pets? Seriously? You mean stuff like elemetal resistance, sc properties, damage type i'd assume. This is occassionally good to know, yes. But mostly tiger and grasshopper simply pulls ahead. That's why you see them so often.
I agree, Bsts can still find spots in party, but only on lower content. Like a D battlefield or a unity, above that it gets hairy. Reason see above.

At the end i think you also might have to learn a bit about the game mechanics before you want to teach everyone, what is possible and what not. And how we have to accept a job breaking adjustment because we love the job. And if we don't we do not love it? It's really weird.

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It wasn't all that cool being known for our 2-hour and nothing else.

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Still beats nothing.

The bottom line is that if BST was all you had to bring to the table, you likely weren't getting many events cleared.

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Originally Posted by Keido

Best thing ever...

Hardcore BST players are already adjusting and picking up new ways to play. Bandwagoner's are falling off or attempting to really adjust. If you all truly love the job so much as you claim you do then you can adjust and figure out a way to work the system.

Try BST BST COR GEO WHM BRD You can melee and fight with your pet. You just cant be lazy and unprepared anymore and beat any content by never dying. I know you might have to learn what pets do what instead of Blackbeard Randy or Scissorleg Xerin spam everything. Its false that you cant play the job anymore and its false that it was always intended as a solo job. This is or was a MMORPG if your not sure what that acronym means look it up. Good BST will and can find spots in parties that work. Think outside the box.

I also think the change to SMN was stupid but then I melee on SMN so I guess I am weird.

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Well, I have played BST a lot during the good old days, and I have a few things to say. If this job was never intended as a solo job, then why did SE do nothing for how long to force it into a party? They could have made adjustments to this job and made it into what they "intended" a long, long time ago. Instead, BST was pretty much The preferred solo job. Why, in fact, I chose it as a main. I think I was in all of 5 or 6 parties til 75 for exp, maybe 2 weren't all BST. I can only remember 1.

Secondly, BST and DRG are the only jobs I get enjoyment playing most of the time. As DRG has pretty much been ignored and lol'd since I started playing, I rely on BST to get things done. It isn't that I cannot find ways to make it work if I have to, it's that I shouldn't have to, and this update/nerf makes the job unplayable to me. I have breifly tried twice, and it's aggravating, annoying and just plain pisses me off. It isn't Beastmaster anymore, they should change the name to Beastslave. That range is ridiculous. If me playing the job is no longer enjoyable, I should find some way to make it work and do it anyways? Get real man. That is one high, high horse my friend.

Besides that, not a viable job for so much content now, pretty much useless.

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I also think the change to SMN was stupid but then I melee on SMN so I guess I am weird.

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Rest of your comment notwithstanding (hardcore BSTs are complaining about this too,not just "bandwagoners"), it's not that weird. The problem BST faces (SMN faces it as well, it's much less of a problem for PUP) is that it's difficult to find a setup where either your pet or yourself won't wiff too much on anything that matters. Most gear doesn't provide accuracy for both, food is one of the few things that does. If you can get enough accuracy, usually you're compromising your pet's effectivness in some way.

But what it all boils down to is these changes are mostly a message from SE: "BST get up close or GTHO, SMN stay far away or GTHO." Neither of these things are good messages. People should be able to play in whatever style that suits them, as long as it doesn't totally break the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Rest of your comment notwithstanding (hardcore BSTs are complaining about this too,not just "bandwagoners"), it's not that weird.

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It's not just BSTs who are complaining. I have BST at 15, it's been 15 for years, and I'm complaining about the nerf. 'cause it was a bad idea. Good intentions, maybe, but a bad idea.

If SE wants people to do things other than spam one specific job constantly, they should do something that rewards players for NOT doing cookie cutter stuff. I've thought of an idea for instanced content that would work, I think, and could probably be made to work with force popped NMs:

Each time the content is entered/popped, the server makes a note of what jobs are being used. Just simple internal counters for each content, each one gets incremented once for each player on a job. When the content is cleared, the server compares the party composition to the most used jobs for that content, and then, the fewer jobs are in that 'most used' list, which would probably be top 6 or 8, the drop rates/drop quality increases.

People who want to spam idiot-proof fail-safe strategies like PLD with RNGs, or all BST, or whatever is 'the correct way' to do content can still clear the content. But people who go in with odd job combinations and still manage to clear the content get more and/or better rewards.

This would either force people to accept that half the strategies they use are NOT optimal strategies, or even, dare I say it, FUN strategies, and change their tactics up if they want to get the increased rewards. And it would also keep a constant (in theory) shift in the meta-game as far as job combinations for content goes: if everyone is doing one or two strategies that represent the majority of clears, with the same jobs, those will be the baseline reward rates for drop rates and loot quality. So there will be an impetus for people to find and use other strategies that do not use those job compositions. However, once those strategies are found, and widely used, those will become the baseline, and there will need to be another 'shift', either back to the old strategies, or to new ones.

It might eventually set up into a cycle, but at least it provides incentive for the community to not rehash stale, boring ways to do content.

Can we get a comment from the devs? Do they realize what funny thing they did there? And maybe have some plans to overthink that?
It is my favourite game and i think they mostly do a good job. I also see the balancing problems and i can imagine how hard it can be to do the right in this matter.
But this adjustment is just wrong, in many ways. You cannot do this to that job, cannot let the master run after the dog. It's like putting a warrior in a tutu. You know... the core.

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Originally Posted by machini

It's not just BSTs who are complaining. I have BST at 15, it's been 15 for years, and I'm complaining about the nerf. 'cause it was a bad idea. Good intentions, maybe, but a bad idea.

If SE wants people to do things other than spam one specific job constantly, they should do something that rewards players for NOT doing cookie cutter stuff. I've thought of an idea for instanced content that would work, I think, and could probably be made to work with force popped NMs:

Each time the content is entered/popped, the server makes a note of what jobs are being used. Just simple internal counters for each content, each one gets incremented once for each player on a job. When the content is cleared, the server compares the party composition to the most used jobs for that content, and then, the fewer jobs are in that 'most used' list, which would probably be top 6 or 8, the drop rates/drop quality increases.

People who want to spam idiot-proof fail-safe strategies like PLD with RNGs, or all BST, or whatever is 'the correct way' to do content can still clear the content. But people who go in with odd job combinations and still manage to clear the content get more and/or better rewards.

This would either force people to accept that half the strategies they use are NOT optimal strategies, or even, dare I say it, FUN strategies, and change their tactics up if they want to get the increased rewards. And it would also keep a constant (in theory) shift in the meta-game as far as job combinations for content goes: if everyone is doing one or two strategies that represent the majority of clears, with the same jobs, those will be the baseline reward rates for drop rates and loot quality. So there will be an impetus for people to find and use other strategies that do not use those job compositions. However, once those strategies are found, and widely used, those will become the baseline, and there will need to be another 'shift', either back to the old strategies, or to new ones.

It might eventually set up into a cycle, but at least it provides incentive for the community to not rehash stale, boring ways to do content.

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I don't think punishing people for using popular strategies is the best approach here.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't think punishing people for using popular strategies is the best approach here.

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Please reread what I said. People who continue to use popular strategies would have the same drop rates and drop quality they always did. People who use unpopular strategies would receive increased drop rates and drop quality.

Under that system, people could continue to do things exactly the way they have been doing them and never notice the change, unless their strategy became unpopular, in which case they would see their loot improve.

This isn't punishing people who use cookie-cutter strats. It's rewarding people who don't.

To give a possible example with possible values, let's say for each job in your party/alliance that is not one of the 8 most popular jobs, drop rates go up 10%.

So if you have an entire party of unpopular jobs, and you clear something where the normal drop rate for an item is 20%, that goes up from 20% to 32%.

That's not punishing people for doing what's popular and tried and true and tested. That's rewarding people for doing stuff differently.

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Please reread what I said. People who continue to use popular strategies would have the same drop rates and drop quality they always did. People who use unpopular strategies would receive increased drop rates and drop quality.

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That's not punishing people for doing what's popular and tried and true and tested. That's rewarding people for doing stuff differently.

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This isn't punishing people who use cookie-cutter strats. It's rewarding people who don't.

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I know what you said. That's still a punishment. You're telling people that to get the best drop rates, they have to change their team comp. I know you see it as a bonus, but a bonus for doing something can also be seen as a penalty for not doing something. Don't single me out here, you know very well that if they did this, there would be people complaining that they're forced to not play the job they want to play because what they want may not drop if they do.

I realize also that you're proposing something dynamic, where if playstyles change, what will constitute atypical will change and what will give or not give the bonus will change. It's not a terrible idea, but it will probably result in a rotation of cookie cutter builds instead of just one- Use one build til it stops giving the bonus, change the team comp, use that til it stops giving the bonus, repeat. And what if there are very few viable team comps due to a fight's mechanics? Then nobody can get the "bonus."

I don't think we should mess with drop rates or tell people what team comps to use at all. That's not what's broken here, if anything's broken at all. We're talking about a probably unnecessary balance change for one job because it was being used in certain counters in a possibly unexpected way. That's a flaw of the content itself, not the job, because it hasn't been a problem in the years leading up to this point. The content should be made by SE knowing what sorts of strategies may be possible. I realize with their low budgets these days they might not be able to test as many team comps, but this is something that should have been anticipated.

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Originally Posted by Arthos

Can we get a comment from the devs? Do they realize what funny thing they did there? And maybe have some plans to overthink that?
It is my favourite game and i think they mostly do a good job. I also see the balancing problems and i can imagine how hard it can be to do the right in this matter.
But this adjustment is just wrong, in many ways. You cannot do this to that job, cannot let the master run after the dog. It's like putting a warrior in a tutu. You know... the core.

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At the very least they have to recognize that pets have their own hate lists and run around making it pretty well impossible for the master to do anything but run around. It's ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Malthar

I got it. Add a 1200 jp gift that increases sic/ready and reward distance to 20'. The career bst's already have 1200 while the bandwagons only went to 100 and wouldn't care to spend the time to go up to 1200.

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I am not a bandwagon BST, I don't even have 100 JP yet. I barely ever have a chance to play for a long time and when I do it seems like JP parties want you to already have most of your JP before you get JP.... I don't understand it. So I slowly solo the things and I think I have like 20 now.

Just fix the range, it's ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I know what you said. That's still a punishment. You're telling people that to get the best drop rates, they have to change their team comp. I know you see it as a bonus, but a bonus for doing something can also be seen as a penalty for not doing something. Don't single me out here, you know very well that if they did this, there would be people complaining that they're forced to not play the job they want to play because what they want may not drop if they do.

I realize also that you're proposing something dynamic, where if playstyles change, what will constitute atypical will change and what will give or not give the bonus will change. It's not a terrible idea, but it will probably result in a rotation of cookie cutter builds instead of just one- Use one build til it stops giving the bonus, change the team comp, use that til it stops giving the bonus, repeat. And what if there are very few viable team comps due to a fight's mechanics? Then nobody can get the "bonus."

I don't think we should mess with drop rates or tell people what team comps to use at all. That's not what's broken here, if anything's broken at all. We're talking about a probably unnecessary balance change for one job because it was being used in certain counters in a possibly unexpected way. That's a flaw of the content itself, not the job, because it hasn't been a problem in the years leading up to this point. The content should be made by SE knowing what sorts of strategies may be possible. I realize with their low budgets these days they might not be able to test as many team comps, but this is something that should have been anticipated.

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As it stand right now, very few people get to play the job they want, unless that job is PLD, COR, WHM, GEO, BST, or RNG. Throw in the occasional thief whose only purpose and reason for being there is to run in, hit the mob once, and run out.

Do you know how much new content I have done as a DNC? Vagary, Sinister Reign? Absolutely zero, I get verbal abuse for even asking if people will take a mythic dancer. Even for job point parties. Nevermind that I can put out an insane amount of damage (I've been doing job point parties for people in my LS. With just me and a single GEO, we can get 30~40 job points an hour, without COR rolls), nevermind that I have good survivability, or any myriad of other considerations. "DNC is a **** job" and I am a "**** player for playing it" and I "wasted a mythic" on a "**** job". These are all things I have heard before. I am routinely turned down for content that I can duo, or, sometimes, solo. I have no need for any more Rem's 1-5s, as I have around a hundred of each last time I check, but I'm not above joining a PUG who needs help for a N run (which I can solo) or a D run (which I can duo with a PLD or WHM), because DNC "isn't a DD job" and is a "**** job" and "loldnc".

You do understand right now that part of the reason there's a "problem" with BST is that now people very rarely want anything but BST? The vast majority of shouts for DDs I see are for BLU and BST, and BLU seems to only be useful for capacity points parties.

You might think my system is a 'penalty' -- you're wrong. What is a penalty is playing one of the roughly 15 jobs in this game that are completely useless for most content, not because they're actually useless for the content, but because no one will take them.

My system would at least provide an incentive to mix up what jobs you take occasionally, and it would reward people for doing content with the more than 7 jobs.

There has definitely been a witch hunt for BST simply because they became an overly popular job. I've heard a lot recently about "good they are a solo job" and "a pet shouldn't be out damaging me" and a bunch of other nonsensical vitriol. Where was all this rage when SE announced before any changes that they wanted pet jobs to be the top damage because of the added maintenance of a pet? I actually heard more of the playerbase being thrilled for BST.

When they announced the distance change. I was fine with being pulled into a range, but not this close. This was a really intense nerf. BST pet AI does its own thing when there are multiple targets and it is especially painful on large targets to have to be right beside the pet essentially to activate abilities.

I tried to do Legion on BST this past weekend and after a few attempts was like nope I'll jump on BLU. The size of the mobs + my pet switching aggro frequently, forcing me to chase it down or constantly mash for it to attack my current target is a bit much.

This game has gone through many bandwagon phases but BST has such an overwhelming level of toxicity behind it. I don't even see reasoning in counter arguments. Just a lot of "suck it up babies and adapt" type comments that I've never really seen behind any nerf before.

Do I think there were some adjustments to be made? Sure. But I think it was a little bit more complicated than a blanket nerf. I think as it was said, had more to do with content making players adopt safe strategies and DD balancing in general.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

This game as gone through many bandwagon phases but BST has such an overwhelming level of toxicity behind it. I don't even see reasoning in counter arguments. Just a lot of "suck it up babies and adapt" type comments that I've never really seen behind any nerf before.

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This is what I don't understand. And frankly - if I was a dev, I wouldn't be doing what people with that sort of attitude were calling for.

I just leave this here.

http://i.imgur.com/jpS4sRJ.jpg

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You do understand right now that part of the reason there's a "problem" with BST is that now people very rarely want anything but BST?

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This doesn't even bother me that much because for years and years BST has been the black sheep of the FFXI jobiverse. Not popular, weak outside of solo, and on top of that people hated BSTS because of the power they used to have over EXP parties (dumping mobs on EXP parties they didn't like, BST armies taking a year to kill HNMs while everyone stands and watches, etc), which might have something to do with the JP reaction. BST deserved a chance to be good, but seems like as soon as people realize it can be useful, it gets crapped on. Since it went on largely unmodified without being popular for a long time, to me, it's the content that's to blame for the situation.

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You might think my system is a 'penalty' -- you're wrong

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No, I'm not wrong- it's subjective without any right or wrong (Think glass half empty vs glass half full). Any "bonus" can be seen as a penalty for those not getting said bonus, especially when the lack of bonus comes from the job they like to play just happening to be part of a popular strategy and not through any fault of their skill or knowledge. To me, a bonus is something that is earned for some sort of accomplishment- in most other contexts a bonus to the person that obtains it is seen as a penalty to the person who can't obtain it. There is not much accomplishment in using a team comp that is less than the most popular, as generally the popular team comp in my experience is the one that clears the content the fastest and not necessarily the one clearing it the most easily. Most fights have many viable team comps that don't get used only because they won't win as swiftly.

We're probably going to have to agree to disagree here. I don't think using a team comp that isn't "cookie cutter" is something that should be rewarded with better drop rates. It especially shouldn't be a bandaid for balance issues, like "oh, we know X Y and Z jobs suck for this content, so if you beat the content with it, we'll give you more stuff". Instead, they should either make the content so XYZ jobs don't suck on it, or they should fix the problem with the job that makes them suck on it.

If they implemented your suggestion, the people who main the jobs that happen to be popular for a lot of content will be upset that just becuase their job is popular, they have to take lower drop rates than people who play less common jobs.

By definition, the baseline is the baseline. If you make 1000 dollars a month, that is your base pay. If you get bonus pay for doing something that benefits the company particularly well, that is a bonus. You are not penalized for not going above and beyond and out of your way to do something.

This is quite literally tautology, and you are wrong, please stop. You are wrong by definition, and you are even wrong by common use of the concept.

That picture Skyrant posted isn't even the worst situation I've seen.

I think it might be to do with Taru's being smaller, but on a Taru mule I was in a direct straight line with my pet in front of the mob.
Me at probably close to minimum distance. I had run in after setting pet on the mob. (A large pot, so mob size might be a factor too.)
And my tiger pet behind me at what would be maximum melee distance we can assume.

And I got the out of range message.

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By definition, the baseline is the baseline. If you make 1000 dollars a month, that is your base pay. If you get bonus pay for doing something that benefits the company particularly well, that is a bonus. You are not penalized for not going above and beyond and out of your way to do something.

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I don't think you have a good grasp of the mentality of MMO players.

If it's an event where rare/valuable drops are desired, whatever offers the best drop rate *will* become the "baseline" and anything else will be deemed "inferior"; that's just the way the playerbase is

It goes with pretty much anything else in the game where something can be rated against others. If you are not the best DD, it means you're a terrible DD, etc.

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By definition, the baseline is the baseline. If you make 1000 dollars a month, that is your base pay. If you get bonus pay for doing something that benefits the company particularly well,

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Like I said, to me, there's a difference from being rewarded for good performance and skill and being rewarded for something that has nothing directly to do with skill and performance. Also, I could be denied a performance bonus at a job just because the boss doesn't like me and not because I'm not doing a good job, which makes it seem like a penalty.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Like I said, to me, there's a difference from being rewarded for good performance and skill and being rewarded for something that has nothing directly to do with skill and performance. Also, I could be denied a performance bonus at a job just because the boss doesn't like me and not because I'm not doing a good job, which makes it seem like a penalty.

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If you think beating, say, an Avatar II fight on VD with WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR isn't harder than doing it on PLD RNG RNG WHM BRD COR, I don't think we have anything further to discuss.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I don't think you have a good grasp of the mentality of MMO players.

If it's an event where rare/valuable drops are desired, whatever offers the best drop rate *will* become the "baseline" and anything else will be deemed "inferior"; that's just the way the playerbase is

It goes with pretty much anything else in the game where something can be rated against others. If you are not the best DD, it means you're a terrible DD, etc.

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Yes, I'm a mythic DNC, and I routinely tell everyone else in my linkshell to not even bother leveling DD jobs, they're all **** compared to me and to not even bother trying.

Oh wait, I don't do that.

That sort of mentality that you are possessed of is part of the problem with this community.

Actually, I'm gonna go ahead and continue to bite here.

Examples, continuing with Avatar II fights, since these are where I have actually had people get upset that "wrong" party set ups do better than the "correct" ways.

Virtually every Avatar II D run I have been on that I have not personally put together has been PLD RNG RNG WHM BRD COR. The very few that were not that were various strategies relying on Scherzo which rarely seemed to work for one reason or another.

PLD RNG RNG WHM BRD COR works. It is kind of hard to screw up. It's also really slow, and not very good, and doesn't get a high TH value for good rewards.

So people start trying other set ups. Maybe they eventually realize that a DD/RUN DD/RUN DD/RUN WHM BRD COR set up with DDs who understand the concept of -DT gear works, and faster, and you can even bring along a THF for high levels of Treasure Hunter. So now we have things other than PLD and RNG being taken. Sure, those are probably gonna be mostly MNK and SAM, knowing the community, along with THF, but you will also have the occasional WAR, DRG, or lolDNC. So now have the job diversity rising from 5 jobs, to, still a core of WHM BRD COR, but those remaining three slots can be varied, which means that more people are getting to play more jobs than just the same old thing every time and might actually get to play jobs they enjoy playing and clearing content at the same time than having to play jobs they don't enjoy but are the only thing they can get to clear content on because that's the 'only' way it's done.

So now, once people realize that, wow, you can actually clear those fights with other set ups than the PLD and RNG set up, you have a greater variety in jobs taken. And since everyone is taking WHM BRD and COR still, there will be an impetus to find other things that can fill those slots. Take a good SCH instead of a WHM, GEO instead of BRD, maybe a SMN instead of COR. Mix it up.

So now, not only is their greater variety in what jobs get taken, which means more people get to play the jobs they actually want to play, but they're also getting better rewards for doing that.

There will, of course, be a search for set ups that give the best rewards, but that means that people are purposefully trying to create compositions out of little-used jobs.

Which means that... horrible thought... people are getting to have fun, and are encouraged to try to be new and inventive, and to take those people who play jobs which they previously would have verbally abused them for asking to come as, and trying to find ways to make more and more non-traditional set ups work.

It's become pretty clear at this point that without incentive to do things new, differently, and inventively, we're going to spend the rest of the life of this game doing nothing but throwing the exact same things at content until the servers go down.

I am up for trying out different combinations but I am on during JP prime time.

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If you think beating, say, an Avatar II fight on VD with WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR isn't harder than doing it on PLD RNG RNG WHM BRD COR, I don't think we have anything further to discuss.

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We can list all kinds of arbitrary job combinations. Some will be "hard" and some will not. But that's beside the point because you didn't say "only stupidly deliberately hard job combinations will award the bonus", you said anything other than the most popular combination(s) will award the bonus. Your example is ridiculous hyperbole.

If only something utterly ridiculous (and probably impossible) like you said would award the bonus, then it would be pointless to have in the first place. There's no way that would have the desired effect.

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It's become pretty clear at this point that without incentive to do things new, differently, and inventively, we're going to spend the rest of the life of this game doing nothing but throwing the exact same things at content until the servers go down.

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We don't need incentives for this. Find like minded people who want to try something different like you and go to town. This isn't even a balance issue- some jobs are better for some fights just by the nature of the fight itself.. If you want to make more job options available, then adjust the fight itself, not the rewards or the jobs.

This discussion doesn't belong in a thread about BST anymore, your suggestion doesn't even have anything to do with that at this point.

I am not sure what the point is about arguing about a system the devs would never implement (even if they wanted to, I just don't see how)... either way it's not on topic. BST was not OP when we had range. Lots of jobs were getting invited to things. If jobs aren't getting invited - I support buffing them.

But really I just want to be able to have fun on BST again. Current range is NOT FUN AT ALL.

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Originally Posted by Morovich

I just tested it out yes you can be behind the mob you just need to be in range.

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It all depends on how large the mob is.

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Originally Posted by Chrianna

It all depends on how large the mob is.

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Indeed my friend

I sincerely hope we get a response from SE.

Mysterious 90 minute maintenance going down right now..

Fingers crossed guys and gals ^^

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Originally Posted by Frankbrodie

Mysterious 90 minute maintenance going down right now..

Fingers crossed guys and gals ^^

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I'm guessing it has to do with campaigns that ended today etc. but sure, fingers crossed.

Yeah no such luck.. F8 and ready range remain the same.