1,200 Job Points is too much!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Personally I prefer earning things on the job I"m earning them for. But the sheer volume is kind of excessive. I agree with job points being earned by the job. Otherwise they shouldn't be called job points.

My only issue here other than total number is just screwing over people who left. A bonus reward like this (which required no effort, was just totally free) isn't something that only some people should have. And if the number of job points needed wasn't so overkill, I might not have unsubbed in the first place.

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It's not really screwing people who left. It's rewarding people who stuck around. A customer loyalty program. Folks who stuck around pumped more money to the company; it is just that they would be rewarded for that.

You can build some crazy momentum once the bonuses start stacking.

+39% Mecistopins Mantle, +31% from Gifts, +124% from Records of Eminence objective (total +194%), and +150% from Trizek Ring. Then chain bonuses kick in.

http://mstabosz.com/bigcp.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ulth

I don't think you understand how the capacity point gifts work. The first one is 5% the second one is 7%, the second gift didn't give you 2% on that 5% it gave you another 7% for a total of 13%. So by the end of this one before they increase the cap to 20 you have an additional 285% from gifts. Then there is the 70% from missions, 50% from cape, ect.

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I ran some numbers. I don't think they're cumulative.

Going into last week's update I had 201 job points (200 JP and 29,999 capacity points) banked, with 550 spent. So totally maxed out. I dumped those, got some more Gifts, and wound up with a +25% bonus as the most recent threshold.

I farmed 350, dumped them all, and got up to +31% bonus.

I did two fights against an Aern in Escha Ru'Aun. Trizek Ring active both times. +194% bonuses from other sources.

Before: 3860 capacity points (no chain).
After: 4980 capacity points (no chain).

That's an increase of 1120 capacity points.

I dunno if I did the algebra right, but that seems to be a 29% increase.

Which seems weird because by your hypothesis I should get an 87% increase. By mine it should only be 6%. So where did 29% come from?

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Really I will be done with JP before I get enough silt for all the vorseals.

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Well that's mathematically impossible, since silt acquisition is directly related to XP rate, and XP is always gonna be higher than Cap points. I farmed up 350 job points on MNK since last update, had 201 banked, and still have about 100 to go. I had almost no silt to start with.... now I have all vorseals and key items.... and 236,000 silt.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

Which seems weird because by your hypothesis I should get an 87% increase. By mine it should only be 6%. So where did 29% come from?

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Probably you killed a lower level mob on second try, so a bit less capacity points. Looks correct to me, close to the 31% bonus you got.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

I ran some numbers. I don't think they're cumulative.

Going into last week's update I had 201 job points (200 JP and 29,999 capacity points) banked, with 550 spent. So totally maxed out. I dumped those, got some more Gifts, and wound up with a +25% bonus as the most recent threshold.

I farmed 350, dumped them all, and got up to +31% bonus.

I did two fights against an Aern in Escha Ru'Aun. Trizek Ring active both times. +194% bonuses from other sources.

Before: 3860 capacity points (no chain).
After: 4980 capacity points (no chain).

That's an increase of 1120 capacity points.

I dunno if I did the algebra right, but that seems to be a 29% increase.

Which seems weird because by your hypothesis I should get an 87% increase. By mine it should only be 6%. So where did 29% come from?



Well that's mathematically impossible, since silt acquisition is directly related to XP rate, and XP is always gonna be higher than Cap points. I farmed up 350 job points on MNK since last update, had 201 banked, and still have about 100 to go. I had almost no silt to start with.... now I have all vorseals and key items.... and 236,000 silt.

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That's not how percentages work. I'm going to use nice clean numbers to try and explain this. If you have a 200% bonus and it gives you 1000 points, then you get 50% bonus added to that for a total of a 250% bonus you will get 1250 points. You added 50% but only got 25% more points because 250 is 125% of 200.

As for the silt, do you have all the Vorseals unlocked? because I hear spoils goes up to 5 and those cost 50,000 silt each so that's 250,000 silt just for one category.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

It's not really screwing people who left. It's rewarding people who stuck around. A customer loyalty program. Folks who stuck around pumped more money to the company; it is just that they would be rewarded for that.

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It depends on how you approach it, glass half empty or glass half full. It can be seen as either a bonus for you or a penalty for me.

Also, about percentages, as per above, they stack additively, not multiplicatively.

E.g. if you have a 5 10 and 20% bonus, you have a total bonus of 35%. You aren't getting +5%, then +10% of the result, then +20% of that result.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

That's not how percentages work. I'm going to use nice clean numbers to try and explain this. If you have a 200% bonus and it gives you 1000 points, then you get 50% bonus added to that for a total of a 250% bonus you will get 1250 points. You added 50% but only got 25% more points because 250 is 125% of 200.

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I added up all the percentages from Gifts, Mantle, Trizek Ring, and ROE bonuses. Bonuses from Gifts were +25% Before spending my bank of 350 job points, the base with all these bonuses was 3860 capacity points on that aern.

After spending the points, I unlocked the 27%, 29%, and 31% tiers.

If your theory about the bonuses being cumulative were true, that would have given me an extra +89% capacity points. Points before would have been x, points after would be x + 0.89x, or 1.89x. With a base of 3860, that would come out to 7,295 capacity points.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

I added up all the percentages from Gifts, Mantle, Trizek Ring, and ROE bonuses. Bonuses from Gifts were +25% Before spending my bank of 350 job points, the base with all these bonuses was 3860 capacity points on that aern.

After spending the points, I unlocked the 27%, 29%, and 31% tiers.

If your theory about the bonuses being cumulative were true, that would have given me an extra +89% capacity points. Points before would have been x, points after would be x + 0.89x, or 1.89x. With a base of 3860, that would come out to 7,295 capacity points.

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Um, are you sure that was the base? Are you forgetting that we're getting +100% right now from the double cap campaign? And possibly from whatever CAP ring you're using? In other words, im wondering if you think the other bonuses are multiplicative with that, not additive?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Um, are you sure that was the base? Are you forgetting that we're getting +100% right now from the double cap campaign? And possibly from whatever CAP ring you're using? In other words, im wondering if you think the other bonuses are multiplicative with that, not additive?

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The base included all bonuses prior to the extra 6% from the 3 tiers of CP+ gifts. Which would have been +688%.

I mean I'm open to the idea that I have math errors, but I'm not seeing any proof that the Gift bonuses are cumulative.

your math error is the "Base" is the amount of CP before any bonuses of any kind. All of the percentage bonuses add together and are based on that base amount.

so like a mob gives 100 CP. base. Your bonuses right now would be
+100% double cap event
+150% from that ring that I'm not allowed to have
+30% from reive bonuses (I don't know the actual combined totall off top of my head, this is made up)
+??% from gift bonuses (assuming cumulativity for the moment)
+80% if you've completed all story missions
+30% from HQ crafted cap cape (as an example)
all this all added together.

Please check again using the *actual* base. You can't remove the permanent bonuses, but you can extrapolate what the base would be without them.

The base is fine as it is. The numbers check for a +6% increase versus an 87% increase, relative to the current rate.

It's like a guy started his job with a salary of $50,000 a year, then after a year got a 5% raise so he was making $52,500. Then after another year his salary was again increased to $56,000. To figure out the percentage of the 2nd raise, figure it out based on the difference between $52,500 and $56,000, NOT the difference between the original $50,000 and $56,000.

I'll crunch some numbers when I get home, I have 2 characters I am CPing on right now, 1 with a 19% CP job gift, the other with a 29% CP job gift, otherwise their CP bonuses are all the same in any situation, all RoE CP bonuses received, 25% cape and 150% ring when CPing.

So in theory the one with the 29% bonus will either be getting 8% more or 125% more and by just eyeballing it looks to be the latter.

But if you wanna simplify by taking out all the bonuses that aren't permanent and tied to a job.

+124% from Records of Eminence.
+100% from double CP event.

If base CP for a mob is X and CP given for a kill is Y, and the total bonuses = 224%:

Y = X + 2.24X
Y = 3.24x

I just ran two tests. First on MNK, which gets CP boosts from having 1200 job points worth of Gifts, and next on SAM which has no job points.

SAMURAI:

Y = 848
3.24X = 848
X = 262

MONK:
Y = 2176
3.24X = 2176
X = 672

So if that's the base after removing all the non-removable bonuses, the only reason Monk is higher is because of all the Gifts.

So I'm getting an increase of 156% from the Gifts. 5 + 7 + 9 + 11 + 13 + 15 + 17 + 19 + 21 + 23 + 25 + 27 + 29 + 31 + 33 = 285

Well..... after running more numbers I'm even more confused.

Is the problem you're having is with CP fluctuating? With mob levels varying you'll not necessarily get the same base CP if you kill on one job, change and then come back and kill another.

In the situation I will test when I get home from work, I will have myself up to the 19% CP gift and my mule up to the 29% CP gift in the same party receiving CP from the same mob, so there can be no difference in CP values and I will be expecting a 125% better CP reward for my mule. From what I can see you're making it sound really complicated when it doesn't seem to be.

Hmm something didn't add up right, I compared CP from 12 kills and my mule got 132% more CP when the expected was 125%, is there any explanation of where that 7% could have come from?

Commitment, RoE bonus, Gifts, Corsair's Roll, +%CAP from Items are all multiplicative with each other.

No matter what I try I can't seem to replicate the difference in CP levels that I saw of 32%.

As far as I'm aware and correct me if I'm wrong but up until when you add the job gifts bonus, the CP should be the same right? So the difference being my mule at the time got the 21-29% bonuses and overall received 32% more CP.

Is there something I'm missing? I'm sure something is working as the values had a constant difference of 32% and I know it's not a big deal but I would like to understand how it works.

For those complaining about missing on the Trizek Ring, a list of all bonuses wouldn't hurt I guess :

- Completion of all Wildskeeper Reives through RoE: permanent +16% bonus.
- Completion of all Colonization Reives through RoE: permanent +27% bonus.
- Completion of all Lair Reives through RoE: permanent +10% bonus.
- Completion of San d'Oria Rank 10 mission: permanent +10% bonus.
- Completion of Bastok Rank 10 mission: permanent +10% bonus.
- Completion of Windurst Rank 10 mission: permanent +10% bonus.
- Completion of Rise of the Zilart last mission: permanent +10% bonus.
- Completion of Chains of Promathia last mission: permanent +10% bonus.
- Completion of Treasures of Aht Urhgan last mission: permanent +10% bonus.
- Completion of Wings of the Goddess last mission: permanent +10% bonus.
- Monster rearing cheers: 1 to 5% bonus depending on the cheer.
- Capacity ring: +50% bonus, up to 30k CP, 7 charges, 15min recast. Obtainable in exchange for 5000 sparks of Eminence.
- Facility ring: +150% bonus, up to 30k CP, 3 charges, 15min recast. Obtainable in gold coffers in Escha zones.
- Mecistopins mantle: +1~50% bonus. Obtainable in Vagary.
- Aptitude mantle/+1: +25~30% bonus. Craftable.
- Job gifts: bonus depends on job points spent.

This is accessible to everyone and just needs a little work. It represents a 124 to 128% permanent bonus and that is excluding rings, mantles and job gifts.

Now what do people who kept playing have on top of this?

- One or several Trizek rings: +150% bonus, up to 30k CP, unlimited charge, 2h recast. This is the same overall bonus as the capacity ring, longer recast, bonus lasts around 10~15 minutes when farming CP solo. People who got several of these have mules or got another one with the mog pell.
- Qultada trust: 8 to 24% bonus, although he busts most of the time.
- Kupofried trust: 10% bonus.
- Moghancement:bounty: 10% bonus.

And that's it, we have rings that you can have with sparks. And we have a bonus of 28 to 44% in CP gain depending on trusts used and the moghancement.
Add on top of that that you could, can and will be able to get the trusts and ring again if you missed them, I don't see how this is too much of a perk for people who stuck around or too much of a slap in the face for people who preferred to play something else.

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- Facility ring: +150% bonus, up to 30k CP, 3 charges, 15min recast. Obtainable in gold coffers in Escha zones.

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Never heard about this one. These the boxes that drop from normal enemies?

Yeah they come out of gold boxes in either Escha zone which drop from normal mobs.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Never heard about this one. These the boxes that drop from normal enemies?

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I've farmed about 500 JP in escha since the update and have seen one. It can't be recharged. 3 charges and it's gone. I wouldn't even consider this an option. Just a nice little bonus if you get super lucky.

How do you get Moghancement: Bounty?

I don't use Qutulda, though I do use Kupofried. I prefer to use Ayame, Kupofried, Ulmia, Koru-Moru, and Kupipi. Koru-Moru is a great buffer but a second rate healer. I back him up with Kupipi so he doesn't run of of MP so quickly. Less downtime.

Gonna need to get that moghancement as well.

IIRC the Clock (the furniture that gives Moghancement: Bounty) was a gift from that "Skillchain / Behemoth" event a couple months back. It's no longer available at the moment AFAIK

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Originally Posted by Siviard

IIRC the Clock (the furniture that gives Moghancement: Bounty) was a gift from that "Skillchain / Behemoth" event a couple months back. It's no longer available at the moment AFAIK

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Yup, this.

I don't know if I was extremely lucky or if they changed something without saying so but I just got a Facility ring from a brown chest in Escha-Ru'aun. The others I've got always came from gold chests.
Also, it seems the number of chests that can be up at any given time is very low. I used to leave blue coffers but ever since I started opening/destroying all chests they pop a lot more often, so more chance to get a gold one.