Classic server, what's the argument against it now?

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Originally Posted by kaerin

Would they really have to do much other than make a new server, not allow transfers to it, and disable limit breaks above lvl 75? Personally I think that would be pretty cool and I'd make a character on it.

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No, they would have to shut down the current servers and force everyone to play like it was 2006 all over again. Or at least, that's how everyone here is reacting. In reality though, yeah that's all they'd have to do.

I dont see it happening, but yeah if they would do it I'd probably make a character on there ...would have to have some QoL adjustments though (cant see myself playing anymore without all those cool warps) and lvl sync.

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Originally Posted by vienne

I dont see it happening, but yeah if they would do it I'd probably make a character on there ...would have to have some QoL adjustments though (cant see myself playing anymore without all those cool warps) and lvl sync.

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And this is why it isn't likely to happen, a lot of people mostly want the old gameplay back but with the conveniences of today's ffxi.
It all adds up to the following:
http://theinternationalstudentcafe.c...ding-money.jpg
The main argument against a Classic/Legacy server is cold hard cash.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

No, they would have to shut down the current servers and force everyone to play like it was 2006 all over again. Or at least, that's how everyone here is reacting. In reality though, yeah that's all they'd have to do.

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Incorrect. It would require development work It's not simply a matter of loading up a server with old software. They'd have to update playonline, they'd have to update the SE management system, they'd have to somehow backport your characters since it's highly improbable they have backups of player data that far back. The game itself would still require some adjustments because even the people who want the classic server probably want to have certain improvements made (see 2posts above) outside the realm of content- it would require development time that would take the team away from performing whatever sot of updates they might do after the "fall of Dalamud." There is work involved. It's not like they can just press a button and give us a server from any moment in FFXI's past.

Work costs money, therefore, see the beautiful graphic above that illustrates the problem.

People who think that it requires no time/money to make a progression server are the trolls...

1) A progression server is 1000000x different than a 'old school' server, which is what people want.

2) All the examples of classic/progression servers from other game all keep modern amenities (in our case, level sync, RoE, Home Points) and you would have to go through RoZ and once a guild beats a sky god CoP would unlock, and once a guild beats AV, ToAU would unlock etc. Which is great in theory, except stuff like AV wasn't really beatable, and neither was PW in their original state without cheating. So do you go for the new versions of those bosses that people fight today, or the unbeatable versions from 'classic' times and just accept that no one will ever pass CoP (no toau, no wotg, etc)

3) Games like EQ have stated that it was a huge challenge to have classic servers. its not like you have a save state of what the code looked like back in 1999. Once they developed it the first time, going forward they made sure all future expansions could be coded into a progression style system, and i am willing to bet its the same with FFXI, there is no 'state 0' and it would require tons of time/effort (all of which they said isn't going to happen) just to get the game back to a state that is that old. Its not impossible as it can be done, but its not the 'effortless' easy money maker you make it out to be.


I would be willing to play on a progression server that kept modern amenities (home points, survival guides, RoE) but not on a classic server stuck in Pre ToAU (or Pre WoTG) state forever for the sole sake of 'how fun' it was to be 1 of 3 jobs that could get a merit party or the 1 lucky link shell leader who tricked 20+ people into building him a relic weapon. The grind to level may have been somewhat enjoyable, but the endgame content was awful.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

This would be an amazing idea OP.

I'm surprised after how much trolling Alhanelem does in every single thread posted that he isn't banned.

I'm more surprised that even after posted several times different success stories of many games where progression servers have worked or people enjoying earlier eras have equated to being more than the current era of the game, that people like him will argue that the validity is opposite and that there would be no way it would work here.

After the recent announcement of the games demise, it would be unfathomable for them not to take the opportunity to do this. It is an undisputable fact from experience with this through other games that this would be a success for SE. If they choose to do so.

It's so enjoyable to see though all the supporting evidence towards one. Apparently people like zachery and Zlhanelem think their word is fact though. Keep up the good fight!

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I'm not trolling anyone, I'm not breaking any rules, so of course I'm not banned. I'm more suprised you haven't been because you keep randomly appearing on this board just to slander me.

Last I checked, discussing an issue in a thread is not a crime. Just because I don't agree with someone and try to support my arguments does not make me a troll. You are being very rude and inflammatory naming names and pointing fingers while adding nothing to the discussion about the topic.

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Originally Posted by Roja323

People who think that it requires no time/money to make a progression server are the trolls...

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Actually, there are times where I'm not really clear which one is really what the OP wants. The problem with a "classic server" as ive been seeing it described is it stays frozen in one point in time. The problem here is that can only last so long before the people on it get bored from a lack of updates. That is definitely less of an issue for FFXI now than it would have been before recent announcements. But despite talking about a "classic server" the OP in this thread was using examples of "progression servers" in other games to support his argument.

I'm glad somebody here realizes that SE can't just wave a magic wand and make a classic server appear.

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I would be willing to play on a progression server that kept modern amenities (home points, survival guides, RoE) but not on a classic server stuck in Pre ToAU (or Pre WoTG) state forever for the sole sake of 'how fun' it was to be 1 of 3 jobs that could get a merit party or the 1 lucky link shell leader who tricked 20+ people into building him a relic weapon. The grind to level may have been somewhat enjoyable, but the endgame content was awful.

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What you describe would have been far more preferable to what the OP described. I fear it's probably still too late for such a thing, but had I been new or wanting to start over and such a thing existed, it might have been interesting to ditch the turbo mode and having to complete the content in order.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

Slander..... lol

You consistently troll these forums and anyone that stays around long enough knows it.

Don't also state this as "random". You know I'm one of the players that has a sub to this game that vouches for this in every thread that always gets created, since you troll in every single thread that is created with this idea. Well, I guess you might get lost with who you are trolling since you do it so much.

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I don't troll ANYONE. Just because my opinions are different from yours, doesn't mean I'm trolling. I don't post differing opinions on purpose; What I post is genuinely how I feel, and I'm sorry that you're unable to see that. You clearly don't know what the word troll means. And because of that, I'm going to do what any sensible person being attacked would do and should have done a long time ago.

At least you came out and admitted you blindly vouch for every thread you see just for the sake of doing so, and you also admitted you don't simply randomly appear to bash me, you categorically seek it out, which is harassment. The point of a discussion is to let your thoughts and opinions be heard. That's what I'm doing, no more, no less. You aren't doing that at all. Thus, I'm not going to engage you any further and I'm taking the appropriate steps to ensure that I don't have to in the future.

Although the OP and I have very strong differences of opinion, neither of us has been particularly rude, called anyone names, and while I don't agree with him, I do respect him for being as passionate about his opinions as I. I apologize to all the other participants of this thread for this brief digression from anything relating to the topic. Apparently being targeted for stuff like this is the price I have to pay for being passionate about a topic.

A 75 cap server would be so easy to implement. Like I said earlier, just make a new server, don't allow transfers to it, then remove limit break quests above level 75. Just leave everything else in the game and let the new stuff be added like normal. It would take very little development time, and there's lots of people who want a 75 cap server. SE would probably get a bunch of new money with this kind of server, the demand is obviously there.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

I'm inclined to agree. I respect other people's opinions, but that's all he's given me. When I asked for sources and data to back up his claims, he never provided any.

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I did provide sources, but because what I'm sharing is opinion and theory, it's not dependent on sources. I never once claimed that I was stating facts except where i provided sources of information (which you've apparently glossed over).

This is a discussion and I'm giving opinions, not facts. You have given both facts and opinions, although in some cases your interpretation of the facts you've provided is flawed. You've drawn conclusions from the facts you've provided that can not be asserted by those facts. E.g. you used the simple fact that there was more players and now there's less (Something any FFXI player could have told you without even referring to a source), which is absolutely true. However, you made assumptions based on those facts.

So I ask a question: Are you demanding that I prove that people leave the game for other reasons than "the game used to be more fun?" I'd be happy to conduct a survey if you'd like, but simple observation and talking to people will reveal that there are many reasons. I'm not refusing to provide sources, but you'll need to tell me what exactly you need a source for, because I'm not really trying to prove anything, I'm just giving my opinions. If you want a source for the fact that not everyone wants a classic server, i submit this thread as a source, because I'm not the only person in this thread that's skeptical of the idea.

As I said, I have respect for you because you've been a civil participant. But you've also been rather dismissive of viewpoints other than your own, just because you have "facts" that don't prove your hypothesis. I'm repeating myself here, but my problem is not your facts. My problem is your interpretation of them. You can't just say anything you want because you have XYZ fact. Let me copy what you've done to prove a point: It's a fact that it is 76 degrees F in my room right now. Therefore, the Yankees will win the next world series. While this is very "out there", the point is, you're making assertions that can't be made with the facts you've provided. You're asserting that because a couple other games implemented a classic server with good results, that FFXI is assured of achieving the same were it to do so. Your facts do not guarantee the suggested outcome.

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Originally Posted by kaerin

A 75 cap server would be so easy to implement. Like I said earlier, just make a new server, don't allow transfers to it, then remove limit break quests above level 75. Just leave everything else in the game and let the new stuff be added like normal. It would take very little development time, and there's lots of people who want a 75 cap server. SE would probably get a bunch of new money with this kind of server, the demand is obviously there.

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Beyond making a lot of content impossible, and disabling new spells and abilities, how does this make the game more fun? I'm not comprehending what it is about levels 76-99 that makes the game less fun by itself. This is just my opinion, not an asserted fact, but to me, the real strength of the 75-and-prior era, beyond what I've mentioned in the past, is the strength of the community. Everyone needed each other and it was the chatting and interacting with others and facing challenges together that made made the game fun. Leveling up by itself was rather boring. Doing it with others and cooperating to achieve a better result was what made it fun- In three words: The Social Aspect. The biggest problem I see now is just the social aspect is much weaker. This doesn't really have a lot to do with the level cap itself.

Since I'm being demanded to cite sources, I'd like to ask you to provide a source that indicates "the demand is obviously there." It takes more than the number of people posting in this forum (on this and past threads on the topic) to demonstrate the demand. That's far too small a sample size.

I'm enjoying the conversation as a whole, but people need to keep in mind we already know SE's plans for the future of the game, and the closest thing we are getting to a "classic server" is going to be the mobile game. It won't have all content at launch, so that's really about as close as you're going to get.

If demand wasn't there then these threads wouldn't exist. And neither would p****** s****** that have a cap of 75 and more people playing on them than some actual servers.


Edit; personally I can't wait for the smart phone version. Its going to be fun playing through the game again as it was released or however they do it.

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Originally Posted by kaerin

If demand wasn't there then these threads wouldn't exist. And neither would p****** s****** that have a cap of 75 and more people playing on them than some actual servers.

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This thread is not sufficient proof of demand. There are also people posting in it, and not just myself, that are against it. You also have no sources to prove your bleeped assertion, not that you could probably provide such a source without it getting deleted.

You've also not told me why the level cap itself is totally to blame for all this. That's nothing more than a theory and something that can't be proven. The game started with a level 50 cap, so why not go all the way back there, if more levels = bad?

Apples to oranges aside, I have nothing against them making a classic server. Worst case scenario it busts, and the people who left for it either quit or simply reactivate their current content IDs if they want to go back to the current state of the game.

Any concern about a divided playerbase as a result is semi-moot since that exact same issue is going to come around next year assuming FFXI Mobile doesn't get scrubbed. Sure, it may not exactly draw away the same players who'd leave for a classic server, but it'll inevitably draw some away, even if only temporarily. (I know I'll be looking into it when/if it releases, and I'm no special snowflake)

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Originally Posted by kaerin

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Edit; personally I can't wait for the smart phone version. Its going to be fun playing through the game again as it was released or however they do it.

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They've stated that they're attempting to recapture the spirit of Final Fantasy XI while rebuilding the client from the ground up for the mobile platform, and have specifically stated they intend to improve on things such as UI, the ability to solo, and the ease of getting a party together. I wouldn't expect it to be a mobile copy/paste of Final Fantasy XI circa 2002.

Because I only used this thread as evidence of demand right?

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Any concern about a divided playerbase as a result is semi-moot since that exact same issue is going to come around next year assuming FFXI Mobile doesn't get scrubbed.

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I admit I'm shooting in the dark here, but I don't think all the same people who would play a classic server would be the ones playing the mobile app. There is likely some overlap, but the mobile app will eventually get later-on FFXI content, so that won't last forever. Also, it could be less damaging to the current population because since it's on another device and it's completely seperate, you could play both at the same time- one at home and one when you can't be. :p

But at the present time, the prospects of the app don't seem great because they've done virtually nothing to promote it other than the announcement. They've done nothing yet to get us hyped for it or anything. Where are the social media posts, etc?

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Because I only used this thread as evidence of demand right?

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This thread is equally able to demonstrate a lack of demand. Demand greater than zero != sufficient demand to warrant research into the issue and/or action by SE. Which, in the course of approximately three threads on the subject, they've remained silent.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

So I ask a question: Are you demanding that I prove that people leave the game for other reasons than "the game used to be more fun?" I'd be happy to conduct a survey if you'd like, but simple observation

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If you could provide me with some relatively good examples of classic servers failing to retain enough players to thrive, I'd appreciate it. Something tangible to validate the idea that a classic server wouldn't be advantageous from your point of view.

I've read everything you've written so far, and while I see where you're coming from, I'm not yet convinced of the disadvantages of a classic server.

P****** s****** exist with the 75 cap and have more players than some actual servers. This shows that more than enough demand exists for a 75 cap server to exist. I'm not sure why you keep trying to ignore this anhelalhem but its the truth. Get over yourself.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

If you could provide me with some relatively good examples of classic servers failing to retain enough players to thrive, I'd appreciate it. Something tangible to validate the idea that a classic server wouldn't be advantageous from your point of view.

I've read everything you've written so far, and while I see where you're coming from, I'm not yet convinced of the disadvantages of a classic server.

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There isn't a sufficient number of games that have attempted this for data to be reliable. I'm not trying to assert to you that a classic server would inevitably fail. What I am trying to tell you is that a lack of notable failiures to date does not mean that success is guaranteed. I could win 100 hands of blackjack in a row, but that doesn't mean I'm going to win forever.

On a personal level I've already told you why a classic server wouldn't be advantageous from my point of view: I wouldn't play on it, because I like the way the game is now, and because you would need a time machine to get the actual kind of enjoyment I got out of the earlier verisons of the game. to cite my previous example: I love ballista. In the months following its release, I could play it as much as I wanted. But some people didn't like certain thigns about it and it wasn't easy to get into. A classic server would not solve this problem because people have made up their minds about the content and / or have already experienced their share of it. If I went to a classic server, it is highly unlikely i would be able to enjoy my favorite content from an earlier era the same way that I originally did 7+ years ago. I can't give you a source to prove why I don't find it advantageous, because that source is me. If you can assert that 3 examples of successful classic servers guarantees an FFXI classic server would succeed, then it's not unreasonable for me to assert that if I and a couple others don't find a classic server advantageous, then there are others who won't as well.

An author writing 5 books that all become wildly popular best sellers is not a guarantee that the 6th book he writes will be equally successful.
Apple making smash hit product after smash hit product does not guarantee they will never release a dud product that doesn't take off.
SE itself made so many successful games in the Final Fantasy franchise, that nobody thought they could possibly fail as hard as they did with FFXIV 1.0, but they did.

In other words: Past performance can be a good indicator of future performance, but it's not a guarantee. You seem convinced that there's no way it could fail by pointing to the lack of currently existing failiures. All I'm trying to communicate to you is that while it is certainly possible it could work, it's NOT GUARANTEED.

Really, the only thing I want from you is to accept that there is more than one reason why a player would leave the game. You seem to be of the opinion that the only reason in the world we could possibly have fewer players now than 10 years ago is because the game was in some way better back then. Nobody leaves an MMO for any other reason according to you. Personally, I have temporairly left the game on more than one occasion because I needed to save money and on other occasions because I was simply too busy to play. At some point in the future after content updates stop, I will likely leave the game because nothing new will be coming in to keep it fresh (And not because the newer content is poorly designed or bad- but because we simply have obtained all the enjoyment out of it. People lose interest in some things over time, it's only natural.)

I really want to know why you don't think that a classic server (or progression server, whichever it is you actually want as they're not the same thing) would be damaging to the latest version of the game. With their lack of development resources, I'm not yet convinced that they could adequately maintain two different versions of the game. The mobile version doesn't count because a different company altogether is maintaining that.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I admit I'm shooting in the dark here, but I don't think all the same people who would play a classic server would be the ones playing the mobile app. [...]

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I specifically stated in my original post that it wouldn't likely draw the same players that would leave for a classic server, and made no absolutes/conceded that the "division" could very well be temporary.

Not sure why the prospects of the mobile version matter, some people will like it, others won't. Some will switch entirely to the mobile version, others won't.

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Originally Posted by Isal

I specifically stated in my original post that it wouldn't likely draw the same players that would leave for a classic server, and made no absolutes/conceded that the "division" could very well be temporary.

Not sure why the prospects of the mobile version matter, some people will like it, others won't. Some will switch entirely to the mobile version, others won't.

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The only significance is it's really the closest thing we're likely to see a classic server (even then, its probably more like a progression server than a classic server, based on what we've been told so far). It's really just a side topic.

The only reason it worked back @ level 75, was because there were at least 3000+ logged in during it's peak periods. Do you think that there are 3k+ people who'd really want to play on a classic server? and if there is, would they actually stay subscribed to the game for more than a month or 2, once the nostalgia is out of their system?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

And.....?

He's not saying he didn't like the game. He liked the game in spite of what he saw as flaws looking back. And I agree they were flaws. There are so many enjoyable parts to the game, both back then and today, but the extreme grind and competing with 100+ people for the chance to fight a monster was really not the best part of the game to me. Even when I was doing it; the endless waiting around doing nothing didn't take long to outweigh the thrill of winning the pull (which was pure luck, pretty much)

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Yes that's exactly right. I enjoyed it in the olden days because I had a lot of friends to play with and a lot of free time to play. Waiting a long time for a party didn't bother me because I had a lot of time to do it. Partying a long time to level up didn't bother me either because I was in no rush. I didn't bother with the land HNMs, and did some Sky and Limbus stuff with friends. Nowadays, I can't fathom spending all day to gain roughly 30,000 experience points. My friends are all gone due to real life commitments and getting bored with the classic game. Exactly one left during the classic era, then returned during Abyssea, then left again in mid 2012 due to real life stuff. Several left to play Final Fantasy 14. NONE left because of the way the game changed due to Adoulin and Abyssea. This is despite your odd inference that all or most did.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

No, they would have to shut down the current servers and force everyone to play like it was 2006 all over again. Or at least, that's how everyone here is reacting. In reality though, yeah that's all they'd have to do.

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Strawman. Nobody said this. The prevailing thought here is "we wouldn't like it and we doubt enough people would to make a functional game". Making a classic server now is like Nintendo re-releasing Nintendo 64 games or Sony developing for the Playstation 1. It'd just be a bad business decision that would cost them time and money on a product that too few people want for it to be anything but a money losing proposition.

You seem to be of the mind that there is some massive throng of thousands of people just waiting with bated breath for this classic server to emerge, because they all loved the game in 2006 and clearly the only reason they abandoned this game in mass numbers was because of Abyssea and Adoulin. Not because of other video games. Not because of other MMOs. Not because they got bored. Not because real life meant they couldn't make the time commitment any more. But just because the game changed.

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Originally Posted by vienne

I dont see it happening, but yeah if they would do it I'd probably make a character on there ...would have to have some QoL adjustments though (cant see myself playing anymore without all those cool warps) and lvl sync.

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What I think would realistically happen, though, is that you, and maybe a bunch of other people, might make a character, be impressed by the novelty and nostalgia for maybe a month, then say "this sucks". Then the place would become a wasteland with so few people that even dedicated hardcore advocates like nekroturkey would abandon it because there aren't enough people to get anything done. Remember, you needed not only 18 people (or more for Dynamis) to get endgame stuff done; you needed 18 people willing to put up with hours of waiting around in exchange for virtually nothing. Good luck culling that from a base of a few hundred people spread out across different time zones and different languages.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

This would be an amazing idea OP.

I'm surprised after how much trolling Alhanelem does in every single thread posted that he isn't banned.

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Disagreeing with your personal opinion is not trolling.

Trolling is intentionally using inflammatory language and insincerely disagreeing with people to start a fight or trick people.

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Originally Posted by kaerin

If demand wasn't there then these threads wouldn't exist. And neither would p****** s****** that have a cap of 75 and more people playing on them than some actual servers.

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It would take several thousand people for a classic server to work. Less than a dozen people on a message board (I count, maybe 3 advocates) does not indicate demand.

What strikes me as incredibly amusing in this whole argument is that there's actually no need to build any kind of legacy server.
All the ingredients to make an artificially capped enviroment are right here, with all of today's QoL improvements.

All you need is a group of reliable people that want to start a legacy group with you.

Just go to any current server and make new characters and never do the level 75 limit break...Done. That costs SE nothing, is cheap/easy, and you can test the waters there. Just designate a server like 'hey bismark is the new legacy server', make a LS and try it out.

If you can get a full ls of people willing to do it, then dont expect SE to make a whole new server for it.

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Originally Posted by nekroturkey

Easy, because Abyssea wouldn't be an option. It was a product made by Matsui and the new development team when they raised the level cap. "Classic" would encompass everything from Tanaka-era.

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Abyssea came out in June 2010. Matsui wasn't Producer then, he wasn't even Director yet. Easily encompasses "Tanaka-era", since he didn't leave until 2012.

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Originally Posted by Zarchery

Disagreeing with your personal opinion is not trolling.

Trolling is intentionally using inflammatory language and insincerely disagreeing with people to start a fight or trick people.

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False, and considering that he has done the last part quite a bit is obvious. I also gave an example of one of his posts.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

What strikes me as incredibly amusing in this whole argument is that there's actually no need to build any kind of legacy server.
All the ingredients to make an artificially capped enviroment are right here, with all of today's QoL improvements.

All you need is a group of reliable people that want to start a legacy group with you.

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This exists among all MMOs, yet people don't do it unless their has been a progression servers made. This has been discussed to death in the several threads that always come up for this,

Back on topic

If we were to compare the demand to not demand based off the people that view this forums, just look at earlier threads. There has always been a higher demand for these servers than not, if you were to base it off these forums. Which any intelligent person would know is not a majority view of the playerbase at all, let alone a view for the people who don't even play the game anymore.

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/i...on-servers.21/

Take a minute and go through that pages and pages of threads there of people who haven't even been to their forums for like 13 years who just discovered their TLP. If you think these forums is any indication of demand or not demand, you guys are sorely mistaken.

The only thing you can really base the success of your product off is the success of other companies doing similar stuff. You can't use WoW clones as an example of it failing, because it isn't similar, this is still an FFXI product. Doing a progression server has worked for any MMO I've ever seen do it. Maybe there is some out there it hasn't worked for, but I haven't seen it. Also like many users have pointed out, there is a high demand for it on places we aren't suppose to talk about, and if any of you have taken a statistics class, that is more than enough sample size to support the idea.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

What strikes me as incredibly amusing in this whole argument is that there's actually no need to build any kind of legacy server.
All the ingredients to make an artificially capped enviroment are right here, with all of today's QoL improvements.

All you need is a group of reliable people that want to start a legacy group with you.

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Well, we're you're missing something that, admittedly, I've seen people asing for- being able to level sync to whatever level you want. It seems like that might not be a terrible compromise. While I've never really seen it as necessary and expressed such in threads about it, it could actually be a good step for nostalgia seekers.

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Originally Posted by PlumbGame

This exists among all MMOs, yet people don't do it unless their has been a progression servers made. This has been discussed to death in the several threads that always come up for this,

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Have you even tried?

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Have you even tried?

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I definitely don't have a dog in this fight (as I mentioned before) but I've never found the "create the experience yourself" argument to be very realistic. If this was any kind of game other than an mmorpg, maybe I could see a self-enforced ruleset like that being viable, but in a game like this, you end up isolating yourself to the rest of the community when you try to create artificial barriers. It's just not the same as having a server dedicated to that ruleset, where you have an mmo-sized group of others playing it with you. Unless you can somehow convince 100s to 1000s of others to restrict themselves along with you (and to keep doing so, despite constantly being tempted to join the rest of the server), you're going to be playing a very lonely game, and I doubt many want that in an mmorpg.

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Originally Posted by kaerin

P****** s****** exist with the 75 cap and have more players than some actual servers. This shows that more than enough demand exists for a 75 cap server to exist. I'm not sure why you keep trying to ignore this anhelalhem but its the truth. Get over yourself.

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Is this really true? I thought even the most populated ones had less than 100 total players.

The biggest problem with trying to force a server that doesn't have "new content" is that the game database is most likely a living database, it gets updated and they don't retain too many older versions. The same issue that Star Wars Galaxies faced. People wanted to play the version of the game before they broke everything but there was no way to restore it to that point. This is probably very likely true with FFXI as they continually changing the user local side dat file formats to try to prevent people from dat mining. I feel that there are aspects to FFXI at the level 75 cap that people enjoyed doing, and new MMOs have not take up yet.

At the point that Abyssea was released and the level caps increased, I think that FFXI was already at the point where it was starting to die off.

The level 75 cap was decided by Tanaka because of fear over convert being too powerful. If they had not placed that into effect a few months after NA release, I think the game would have developed more naturally over time with expansions. CoP lvl 80, ToAU lvl 85, WoTG 90. But we would have had a very different game experience as well.

What is the content you are after from "Classic FFXI"? Long grindy level parties? the end-game Group vs Group Raid Monster Hunts? Raiding Dynamis(large free roam raid instance)? Raiding Sky in an open world raid dungeon? I know that FFXI players never really called it Raiding but that is what it is.

Unfortunetly FFXIV has yet to implement these types of content. In Theory, they have GvG Raid Monster Hunts in the works. The other 2 I have no clue about.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Is this really true? I thought even the most populated ones had less than 100 total players.

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I've never heard of illicit servers having more players than the real ones have even now. And I'd bet money on a higher share of those players being multiboxed characters. Resorting to the underground is an involved process and it's not something just anyone will do, so there's a lot of barriers (even ignoring the legality barrier) to entry for a such server to even come close to matching the pop of real servers.

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The level 75 cap was decided by Tanaka because of fear over convert being too powerful. If they had not placed that into effect a few months after NA release, I think the game would have developed more naturally over time with expansions. CoP lvl 80, ToAU lvl 85, WoTG 90. But we would have had a very different game experience as well.

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I've pointed this out in the past- The main problem with the level cap rise is it came after several years and multiple expansions never changing the cap. If this happened more gradually and nautrally with each expansion, it probably could have gone over smoother. But I don't believe that the new levels themselves directly harmed the game, rather it was a myriad set of issues coming together. Abyssea being the biggest one, and not refreshing most existing content in the process of raising the cap (at least, not until it was far too late)

Come on guys, we all know people don't box or have mules on the real servers.

Most of the unofficial servers I've seen pages for have rules against multiboxing.

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Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

Most of the unofficial servers I've seen pages for have rules against multiboxing.

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I find that hard to believe, considering it's perfectly legitimate and allowed on the real game.

Those unofficial servers are usually running on a single computer, while the real servers run one world on multiple servers, with zones split between servers, as well as the AH being on a separate server. Official FFXI can handle 4000+ people being online on a server, but only about 700 people in a zone, like in Beseiged, because that zone runs on a different server to handle the load. Unofficial servers are usually running on a home computer, or a single server-grade computer, so they don't have the RAM and CPU resources to handle a huge population.

The operators don't want one person monopolizing CPU and RAM, and also, they have some old HNM-style spawns they don't want one person to be able to monopolize with multiple characters.