This argument is stupid. I responded to a post stating that nobody did X by saying that people actually did do X. Come on man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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01-07-2015, 05:38 AMdetlef
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01-07-2015, 06:07 AMPlumbGameThere is no alternatives to an SE level capped 75 server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonjustin
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01-07-2015, 06:09 AMPlumbGameThis is true, WoW, touted for being the most casual MMO on the planet, has DD jobs waiting in DF queues for more than an hour sometimes (even 2+ hours at times), to also have people just leave it when they get in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
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01-07-2015, 06:25 AMShiraiAnd you truly believe that this will happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by PlumbGame
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01-07-2015, 06:39 AMPlumbGameGiven the direction several MMOs have gone and releasing servers not only to what people are requesting here, but they were vastly more successful than the current servers, it's in the realm of possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirai
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01-07-2015, 06:54 AMDazusuTo be fair, it was pretty friggin popular and supported at least 5 parties (which was a fair amount back then). Goblin Anglers down the bottom of the cliff. Goblins at the top of the cliff, and 2-3 parties on Catoblepas spread around the zone. Soon after CoP was released, it was consistently packed until ToAU arrived. At lease on Ragnarok where I was at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Not everyone was hip to the mechanics of the game back then. It was popular to have two DD and a BLM magic bursting. "Melee burn" was something for King Vinegarroon and not much else, so even though the zone had less mobs, they went a lot further because groups typically took longer to kill them.
Bibiki Bay was usually the first port of call. If that was jammed, my groups would usually head up to Sky and drudge it out on Aura Statues or Weapons.
After ToAU it was pretty much deserted aside from the odd BLM soloing Goblin pets. -
01-07-2015, 07:33 AMAlhanelemWhat works for one MMO doesn't always work for another. SE hasn't even commented on the idea so I wouldn't consider it in any realm of possibility until some kind of dialogue is opened on the issue. They will most likely shoot it down because they won't have the resources to commit to progress development on two separate versions of the game. I'm not telling you this to imply that it's a terrible idea, I'm only telling you this because I don't think it's realistic in the grand scheme of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by PlumbGame
The biggest issue is you can't just freeze the game at some point where it was just level 75 with X content. They'd have to develop new content or rework content created for the normal game. So they'd essentially need a whole other development team to maintain this special server. And the hardcore fanbase of any MMO is the top 5% of players at best, so they'd be devoting a LOT of resources to please a very small portion of their playerbase- because without spending those resources, the "classic" server would get old pretty quickly. -
01-07-2015, 10:06 AMPlumbGameNot only was my comment not intended for the direction of your argument, your argument is irrelevant and has been put to rest in multiple of the threads you say the same thing in. Of course nothing is ever an absolute certainty. I can't just say because X person over there won the lottery, I will therefore win the lottery. Given the success of MMOs though that have procured such success creating such nostalgia, that you can could also procure the same success. Also given the population size of current servers, it isn't weather you could hit a 3/4k pop, it's if a server like this could be financially more viable than this garbage size of a pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Your right, a classic server would get old pretty quick. Tell that to all the people playing on project 1999 for everquest that hits pop sizes significantly higher than FFXI servers do right now that the same content they not only did in 1999 was lame, but the content that the same content they are rehashing for 3 years now is getting old pretty quick.
I find it amusing though, that SE the king of re-releasing most of not just their FF titles, but there SE titles in general, rely on gambling that you guys will pick them up, which most of you probably do, but apparently can't re-release an XI server from the beginning, or they are supposedly going to shoot themselves in the foot. -
01-07-2015, 01:02 PMBurnNotice
I've seen too many good players resign because how HNMs brought conflict among LS members and between friends. Back when I had a character on Siren, I was in an elite LS and seen people get booted from the ls for having poor gear....and these where the same people at camping HNMs all hours of the night, making claims.....trying to be loyal to the LS.....just to watch people get drops that they didn't earn or sometimes didn't need at all. I lost two of my friends in that elite LS and others lost friends from their elite LS too. It got to the point where I was suppose to get a drop from Nidhog, I wanted for everyone to pass on the item except for a lady friend, and intentionally passed on the item so she can have it. I did this because she gave her all everyday to that LS and then some. When she got the item, the some members raged and leaders got upset at her and booted her the next day. When that happen, I was done with the LS and with this game for about 2 years after that.
The only reason I came back because of the great changes that occurred. This game needs to be player-friendly. I am not saying it needs to be on easy mode, but I rather have it go in the direction where you can solo and get the finest gear and get the best weapon in the game (like soloing Empys, Mythics, and Relics) and do content that requires 6~36 ppl for super exclusive items for upgrades and each person having their own coffer or examining a coffer like VWs for their spoils. -
01-07-2015, 02:07 PMAlhanelemHey man, you brought it up. Don't bring up things you don't intend to talk about.Quote:
Not only was my comment not intended for the direction of your argument, your argument is irrelevant
Like I said before, what's good for one game isn't necessairly good for another. In the prime example I'm aware of, EQ1, the throwback servers were successful because of how massively they ruined the game, particularly in the making of EQ2. I don't think anything in particular ruined FFXI, I think it is more a victim of age than anything else. I'm quite sure that the first MMOs like Ultima online (pretty sure it's still running) do not have the populations they once had, but that has nothing to do with their game being bad and everything to do with people just moving on after playing for so goshdanged long.
I know I at least personally left for a while just because I was getting bored and new content just didn't have the same spark it used to. A small part would also be broken jobs (in my view) that weren't getting fixed. Many of my gripes have since come to be fixed and I came back. I can tell you now that if those things didn't happen, nothing, and especially not a classic server, would have brought me back.
I also had a similar experience to this. I also had an LS that was pretty significantly damaged after we were doing 30 man dynamis groups and funneling all the currency to one person. As soon as he finished his relic, he jumped servers. That's not to say that the HNM camps and such didn't have their moments, they did- but they also often brought out the worst in people. Today in the game I see significantly more friendly and cooperative behavior between players in the game. I feel like the stuff the OP wants to bring back (and this thread was almost certainly started as a troll btw) are one of the reasons for the decline of the population, not one of the benefits that maintained it.Quote:
I've seen too many good players resign because how HNMs brought conflict among LS members and between friends. Back when I had a character on Siren, I was in an elite LS and seen people get booted from the ls for having poor gear....and these where the same people at camping HNMs all hours of the night, making claims.....trying to be loyal to the LS.....just to watch people get drops that they didn't earn or sometimes didn't need at all. I lost two of my friends in that elite LS and others lost friends from their elite LS too. It got to the point where I was suppose to get a drop from Nidhog, I wanted for everyone to pass on the item except for a lady friend, and intentionally passed on the item so she can have it. I did this because she gave her all everyday to that LS and then some. When she got the item, the some members raged and leaders got upset at her and booted her the next day. When that happen, I was done with the LS and with this game for about 2 years after that.
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01-07-2015, 09:18 PMDazusuI'd argue that the stagnant end-game content was the reason for the decline (though there were a lot of dicks in end-game as has been pointed out; but similarly dicks exist now too - they aren't exclusive to one type of content).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
The most noticeable decline in players that I recognized was about 6 months into Abyssea when people realised what it actually was, and what it was going to do the game. Just my personal anecdotal observation. (FYI: I enjoyed Abyssea, this isn't an Abyssea bashing statement). -
01-08-2015, 12:59 AMPlumbGame
SE even said their biggest regret was abyssea, so I take anyone saying that anything aby and on was better for the game with a grain of salt.
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01-08-2015, 01:41 AMAlhanelemThe reason they had regrets about abyssea was it suddenly made people feel a lot more powerful and therefore it was hard to make future content live up to the excitement that abyssea initially offered. We've only just now semi-sort-of caught up to the sort of power abyssea gave with its special buffs. Since that's happened though, other content in the game is now more able to appeal to people than it might have been otherwise. The updated BCNM fights for instance have you wield that new power while also throwing in a bit of nostalgia with the fights not being substantially altered from the originals (Which I liked better than the artificial power caps of level restriction effects).Quote:
Originally Posted by PlumbGame
It's really not fair to include everything after abyssea as part of the problem. Abyssea (while fun at the time) was (in the long run) a problem, but that doesn't make everything after it problematic. thus, change your sentence to "..abyssea was good for the game..." (which I didn't say) instead of "...Abyssea and later on was good for the game..." and then I would agree with the statement. The power granted in abyssea made future content harder to enjoy. Had abyssea not existed, we probably would have enjoyed the other content that came after much more.
But the real point here is that any pop decline has little to anything to do with HNM drama and everything to with the add-on scenario approach they took instead of just releasing a proper expansion with content that was all made to fit together- which they eventually did but not before they screwed other things up. -
01-08-2015, 01:48 AMzataz
not to change the subject but ive got video proof of a person poping tier 3 back to back to back without losing there ki >.>
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01-08-2015, 04:40 AMRubicant82
75 cap is now and forever will be dead and gone.
If you don't like it maybe you should go find a privet server to play on. rumor has it there are several out there that, and most of them are made for ppl who want to experience the old game.
Though with populations of ~100 people good luck with that. Plus SE hunts them and shuts them down anyway.
Everyone is can have their own opinion, but the game "back then" was a nightmare.
so much so that it was dying. People did not have the time to commit to the game like they did anymore. People were going towards more casual gaming because their real lives were getting busier.
Then the FFXIV debacle happened and in order to save this game SE gave us what everyone though would be the last installment; Abyssea.
Then what happened? the game though not gaining popularity stopped losing as many players. This band-aid provided enough of a stop that SE decided to launch a new expansion.
The "old ways" are how you kill a game. There is most likely less than 200 people who would want to play on a server that was capped at 75 and maybe had up to abyssea, with a few of the finer tuning job adjustments of post abyssea. I wish you the best of luck getting a server. But I hope to god that SE doesn't go back to the old ways with new content. They random number generator for augments and NM drops is already enough to drive people insane. I could only imagine how many people would quit if we went back to the tyranny of Tanaka days. -
01-08-2015, 04:45 AMDazusuThat's the first thing you've ever posted that I've wholeheartedly agreed with, and I couldn't have said it better myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
This game has declined more in the past 2 years (in the way of people online and actually being active) than it has the 9 years prior. There's so many things you could attribute it to. The release of XIV? The release of other new MMOs? People growing up? The truth is, everyone has their reason for moving on, all of those reasons are different - and given that SE doesn't even poll people who quit for their reasons (like every other pay-MMO I've ever played does), I doubt we'll ever truely know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicant82
But to describe the game back then as "dying" is laughable, IMO. -
01-08-2015, 06:49 AMPlumbGameHears rumors, yet apparently knows population sizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicant82
Don't be so ignorant in assuming that A. Everyone knows about X private servers (which you aren't even aloud to bring up here), and B. They bring the same experience. I'm going to assume by your comments that you know EXACTLY what you are talking about, not just hearing rumors, you would also know of the millions of issues that exist on these so called private servers.
Let's also assume that they did create said servers. You imply you have to play on it. At the rate these server pops are declining, there will soon be less than 200 players. I'd rather take the 200 players on those kind of servers than the 100 that will probably be around on each server in a year at this rate. -
01-08-2015, 09:11 AMAlhanelem
I don't really think enough people fill out those exit surveys in any MMO for them to provide valuable data. I expect a majority of the actual responses would be useless comments like "this game sux" and "you are horrible" rather than meaningful feedback.
I could be wrong but that's based on my personal experiences with humanity. -
01-08-2015, 09:12 AMPlumbGameThat's true, I usually don't fill those out, they would definitely be useful though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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01-08-2015, 07:38 PMDazusu
If I was running an MMO, and my MMO held out at 3K active users per server (concurrent) for a good 9 years; then suddenly dropped to 600~ concurrent, I'd want to know why definitively; even if only 5 in 100 exiting players leave worthy comments.
The problem with SE is they presume to know what everyone wants/likes. They don't. This is much must surely be evident to everyone on these forums given how player feedback was disregarded for the longest time.
XIV V1 proves how much SE knows about what players want/like. They didn't take alpha feedback about that game seriously either. It got as far as release in its dire state. -
01-09-2015, 03:27 AMAlhanelemThat's not really what happened. The player decline was a LOT more gradual than you're implying, and it certainly did start sooner than 9 years.Quote:
If I was running an MMO, and my MMO held out at 3K active users per server (concurrent) for a good 9 years; then suddenly dropped to 600~ concurrent, I'd want to know why definitively; even if only 5 in 100 exiting players leave worthy comments.
Also, they seem to be aware of some of the things that may have been damaging to the game in the long term. They found it was a mistake to send players on a huge and crazy power trip with Abyssea because then future content wouldn't be able to live up to it. As I wrote past, they should have just released a proper expansion like Audolin instead of all those little add on scenarios which don't have much cohesion between them. They also seem to realize that their design direction with certain systems has left something to be desired, because they're now making changes to the game that people have pleaded for which would have been unheard of years ago. Like with PUP for instance, three years ago I never would have believed that SE would realize how far behind PUP was and that even giving them A+ skill wouldn't make them a number 1 DD. I myself never did many BCNMs because of having to walk 10 miles between each run, and i never believed that SE would make it easier to get to them or make it easier to try again when you lose (by being able to set an HP nearby). I never believed that SE would add the new 1-hour to give SMN 30 seconds of AWESOME, or that they would add an ability that opens up avatar solo skillchains and yada yada yada. In Audolin, they've made a few iffy decisions but they've also done a lot of wonderful things that I never expected they'd do.
One factor is simply the game is old. Even wow has had a gradually declining playerbase (though there's a spike upward with each expansion), just they had a much, much larger one to begin with so it isn't as obvious. Other old MMOs dont have the number of players they used to have either, just because they're old. You have to realize that not every reason is a problem or defect that can/will/needs to be address by SE for survival. Some of it is natural.