No, I want 3 rings at least.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Because this issue is clearly "I want this gear, but SE won't let me have it, please let me have it because I'm paying"

Not sure what's the difference. If the game designer just doesn't want the player to get the item....just don't get it?

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Such a wonderful show of just how awesomely the point is missed. The point is to allow more than 1 of 12 items to be obtained. I don't see anyone arguing this has to be done for free or via the mission that grants the original. In fact, many times I've seen arguments about this over the last few days people have talked about using the 300k Bayld replacement price as a simple price tag for additional rings, possibly even 3M Bayld for additional rings. That, isn't asking for hand outs, that's asking for changes to shitty design.

If asking for a change to this design of only obtaining 1 of 12 rings at a time is by itself comparable to "hand me everything I want cause I said so" then I fail to see how any suggestion couldn't be held to the same standard. The thing is, you use this same stupid argument in so many threads it disgusts me, it's not a valid reason for not doing things, it's a simple excuse as to why anything shouldn't be done that doesn't even make sense because it's not even close to what's being asked for. You're comparing apples to oranges and then expecting everyone to accept oranges as being outrageous since everyone knows that apples are outrageous themselves.

I have 8 of the 22 jobs at level 99-- MNK WAR WHM BLM THF BRD BST SAM. MNK and WHM are my favorites that I put the most effort into gearing. THF I pull out if I wanna farm Dynamis, BLM sometimes if there's something that requires magic damage (I like it for Wildskeeper Reives especially Yumcax). SAM I just sort of play around with sometimes because I like the super fast TP build. BST I used to use for solo stuff but since Adoulin came out my MNK has been better so I retired the job. WAR I use rarely and only if I need to red proc something in Abyssea.

So you could say that MNK and WHM are my main jobs. Now I have to pick 1 out of 12 rings for one of those 2 jobs, because they don't really overlap and no ring will really be useful to both. So what I could do is puff up my chest, throw a tantrum, and say "I'm a paying customer! Gimme rings for both jobs!!" Or I could do what I am doing, act like an adult, and get one ring for one of the jobs (probably WHM; I am loving the look of that Woltaris Ring as a replacement for my Serket Ring) and stick with the current ring combination I have on MNK. Because it has been fine so far, and it doesn't instantly become no good just because, say, Karieyeh Ring now exists.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Such a wonderful show of just how awesomely the point is missed. The point is to allow more than 1 of 12 items to be obtained. I don't see anyone arguing this has to be done for free or via the mission that grants the original. In fact, many times I've seen arguments about this over the last few days people have talked about using the 300k Bayld replacement price as a simple price tag for additional rings, possibly even 3M Bayld for additional rings. That, isn't asking for hand outs, that's asking for changes to shitty design.

If asking for a change to this design of only obtaining 1 of 12 rings at a time is by itself comparable to "hand me everything I want cause I said so" then I fail to see how any suggestion couldn't be held to the same standard. The thing is, you use this same stupid argument in so many threads it disgusts me, it's not a valid reason for not doing things, it's a simple excuse as to why anything shouldn't be done that doesn't even make sense because it's not even close to what's being asked for. You're comparing apples to oranges and then expecting everyone to accept oranges as being outrageous since everyone knows that apples are outrageous themselves.

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I think what Afania is getting at is that all of you are not wanting to choose between apples or oranges... you want apples and oranges! The design isn't "shitty" as you put it. It's a great design. If you didn't notice, SE has a habit of saying "you can have this, but at the cost of this". If you have everything things cease to be interesting (which is why I don't like instant gratification people either). The thing that makes games (and life for that matter) interesting is having to make choices. But the thing is... the choice isn't permanent. If it was permanent, now THAT would be interesting; having to actually make a permanent strategic decision.... the thought is titillating. That would separate the real gamers from those who are here for just a little entertainment.

I'm all for limiting player decisions at times, since I like that sort of thing in an RPG.

I don't think it'd be bad to let us choose 2 or even 3 rings out of 12 though, given that the choice is usually between 3.

Whatever the case I know what I'm probably getting if I'm only allowed to have one (can we have some clarification if the Vocane Ring description is accurate, because it says something totally different in Japanese). I just don't think it'd be bad to let us have more than that. These rings are all very good but they arn't things that are going to make or break your jobs so I don't see any reason to be dramatic about it if they decide to stick with the one ring thing though.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Such a wonderful show of just how awesomely the point is missed. The point is to allow more than 1 of 12 items to be obtained. I don't see anyone arguing this has to be done for free or via the mission that grants the original. In fact, many times I've seen arguments about this over the last few days people have talked about using the 300k Bayld replacement price as a simple price tag for additional rings, possibly even 3M Bayld for additional rings. That, isn't asking for hand outs, that's asking for changes to shitty design.

If asking for a change to this design of only obtaining 1 of 12 rings at a time is by itself comparable to "hand me everything I want cause I said so" then I fail to see how any suggestion couldn't be held to the same standard. The thing is, you use this same stupid argument in so many threads it disgusts me, it's not a valid reason for not doing things, it's a simple excuse as to why anything shouldn't be done that doesn't even make sense because it's not even close to what's being asked for. You're comparing apples to oranges and then expecting everyone to accept oranges as being outrageous since everyone knows that apples are outrageous themselves.

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Because picking 1 ring out of 12 is not a shitty design IMO, I see nothing wrong with it. And I don't think "I'm a paying customer" is anywhere close to being a valid reason to ask for a design change. If you don't agree with the design, just say "this design could have been better" instead of "I'm paying, SE should listen to me, or else the game would die if SE doesn't listen". That's just not a good way to express opinion about game design.

I will probably go with Weatherspoon personally. It annoys me that I won't be able to have Orvail and Shneddick, as those are kind of "quality of life" rings, but I guess I'll have to make due.

If I was given carte blanche access to all rings, I'd be willing to store:
* Weatherspoon Ring - Fast Cast for all jobs and MAcc+10. This brings me up over 40% fast cast on my light armor jobs like THF and DNC for Utsusemi. Ichi will cast faster than ever! Pretty great.
* Orvail Ring - HQ Rate +1%
* Shneddick Ring - Movement speed... I hope this stacks with other forms of movement speed. Otherwise I wouldn't get it.
* Renaye ring - Refresh and 10 singing/geomancy skill!
* Haverton Ring - For Dancer solo
* Janniston ring - Best cure ring.
* Kariyeh Ring - I would essentially only be using this for Atonement, but I'd still keep it around.
* Vocane Ring - I do not know whether or not I'd use this. It depends on the translation.

I wouldn't be willing to store the other rings and wouldn't pick them up even if I could. So I'd personally be willing to hold 6~8/12 rings and I'm fairly satisfied with just Weatherspoon. If I could pick a second, I'd probably pick Orvail. If I did more Tier 0 synthing, I'd consider picking Orvail over Weatherspoon. As it is, though, I don't.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Because picking 1 ring out of 12 is not a shitty design IMO

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In this specific case it is. In another game, or a long time ago or even different types of rings maybe not. But this game is geared to playing multiple jobs, is in the end of it's years where it is pretty much expected you play multiple jobs (don't give me that I only play one job BS. A few might but that is few and a lot might put more effort into one but this will end up pigeon holing them and SE has been going out of it's way to make multi job gear options all around and expanding merits designing content that requires different sorts of tactics etc )and these rings are effectively only good for 1-2 jobs each. Heck a couple of them aren't even good for jobs and only would be picked by people who never actually fight anything. Even previous mission rewards were smart enough to only issue a few options that were a lot more general like tank/melee/mage rewards so that they would be useful to more jobs. Or made some of them really crap so there would be fewer really good options.

At the very least they should offer you the ability to swap rings for a reasonable amount (300k is kinda ridiculous). And from an SE prespective doing something like you can get extra rings at some absurd balyd cost like say 5 million would not really disrupt the game (not many would actually do that for more than 1-2 more let alone quickly) but would be a simple time sink to introduce

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"I'm paying, SE should listen to me, or else the game would die if SE doesn't listen". That's just not a good way to express opinion about game design.

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You're fixated on that one topic. So much so that you're dismissing everything else.

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first person i've ever heard of say that people don't have main jobs anymore.

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Nobody asks what your "main job" is. Now they as "what REM jobs do you have" or "what 119 jobs do you have". The expectation is that you have several very well geared jobs to participate in events with.

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So what I could do is puff up my chest, throw a tantrum, and say "I'm a paying customer! Gimme rings for both jobs!!" Or I could do what I am doing, act like an adult, and get one ring for one of the jobs

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No one is doing that. Someone is twisting the issue into that but that's not the argument for selecting 3 rings. This also isn't a negative criticism of SE or the development team. They do a great job creating a fun game. There's just opportunity to get more use out of the great rings they've created while at the same time maintaining a balance of game play and catering to the realities of todays game.

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I find it funny that people are complaining about not being able to get more than one ring. It's like a spoiled child getting something, but it's never enough. Some people aren't happy no matter what. But SE even catered to people like you, they made it so your choice isn't permanent.

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I'm far from the only one that didn't want reward choices to be permanent. There were plenty of "people like me" that asked SE to change it which they did. Just because they asked! How is it being a spoiled child when you ask for a change to the game? Also a service i've been paying for since the release. I think people have every right to ask for anything they want. It must be nice to be the only people on the Official Forum to never ask SE to change anything.

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I only play 1 job mostly

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I still play PUP for 95% of my online FFXI time.

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The two people making the most noise against multiple rings only play 1 job. There you have it.

Folks, it's not an insult to Square or the developers to ask for a change to the game especially when there is plenty of merit to do so. This game is a business and their business is to offer a service. It's not personal and they don't take it personal. If they had announced the end rewards and you could select up to 3 rings, would the same people be making all this noise against it? Would they be demanding to receive only 1 ring or is this more about whatever the development team does is the way it must be and should be and I don't want to offend the company. I have a feeling it's the later.

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Originally Posted by dasva

In this specific case it is. In another game, or a long time ago or even different types of rings maybe not. But this game is geared to playing multiple jobs, is in the end of it's years where it is pretty much expected you play multiple jobs

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You can still play your mage fairly well if you pick DD ring and vice versa. It's only a shitty design if you want to maximize all jobs.

Not allowing the player to maximize ALL jobs is not a shitty design in this game, it's been the design goal for ages. You get merit point system, WS limitation, and you have to make choice for all mission reward as well. Just because Rajas/Suppa/TP bonus moonshade are slightly more powerful than other options, doesn't mean SE didn't force the player to make choice before Adoulin exists.

So why complain now? Why don't you guys complain when SE introduce DM and merit point system? Isn't it obvious that the design goal of this game doesn't allow players to maximize all jobs?

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Originally Posted by Kincard

These rings are all very good but they arn't things that are going to make or break your jobs so I don't see any reason to be dramatic about it if they decide to stick with the one ring thing though.

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This. I bet when next ilv come some of them would be replaced and nobody would care anymore. Ppl want more than 2 rings so much to even go out and personal attack anyone disagreeing the opinion is just too over dramatic lol.

To be fair, I've complained about the merit point system several times. You could easily make the same argument here that I made there.

None of these rings are as important as uncapping Tier 2 job specific merits, though, so I'd rather not fight this fight.

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Originally Posted by Afania

You can still play your mage fairly well if you pick DD ring and vice versa. It's only a shitty design if you want to maximize all jobs.

Not allowing the player to maximize ALL jobs is not a shitty design in this game, it's been the design goal for ages. You get merit point system, WS limitation, and you have to make choice for all mission reward as well. Just because Rajas/Suppa/TP bonus moonshade are slightly more powerful than other options, doesn't mean SE didn't force the player to make choice before Adoulin exists.

So why complain now? Why don't you guys complain when SE introduce DM and merit point system? Isn't it obvious that the design goal of this game doesn't allow players to maximize all jobs?

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Since when was more than 1-2 all? I can functionally fully merit over half a dozen jobs. I mean if you want to argue something I wasn't saying I recommend just quoting yourself and arguing back and forth with yourself instead.

And those weren't slightly more powerful. They were vastly more powerful and yes that is a type of force.

Also I've complained about merits before... and lo and behold they have raised limits several times over the years... almost like as the years have gone on they have wanted players to maximize more jobs. As far as DM again it was suppa or bust so the only complaint was the others sucked for the most part.... though there was the trick of getting 2 some people did.

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I still play PUP for 95% of my online FFXI time.

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That means that 18 days out of the year, you're on another job and 347 you're on pup. I'd call that only playing 1 job.

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The problem with allowing players to buy more rings with huge amoungs of bayld or loldollars, is that the ring is a one-time gift given to you by the storyline Heroine. Arciela is not a shopkeeper who sells rings. She is a Princess, who gave you a ring because of your special friendship with her and the work you did to protect the kingdom. She does allow you to exchange the single ring for another by paying a fee, presumably the fee is because she has to ask another family to get a ring from their Treasure-House, and she will do that because she is your friend. But she is not an Ebay ring shop. That is Lore, and it means a lot to me, personally.

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I didn't know the last missions had been implemented. Congratulations on beating the expansion and choosing your ring a day before update. I wish I had the beta version of the last mission pack so I knew everything that was going to happen and so that I too could conjecture wildly at the mechanics of the implementation.

The problem with your statement about lore is that SE can make the lore anything they want. For example. "Thank you adventurer for helping me beat Evil Bad Guy X. Please select 1 ring from my collection as a reward". Now take that and just change it up a bit and ""Thank you adventurer for helping me beat Evil Bad Guy X. Please select 3 rings from my collection as a reward". In the case of purchasing Ploh Trishbahk you speak to him "For your continuing and monumental efforts to keep our kingdom safe, we have been authorized to present you with another ring from the royal collection, however we need X amount of bayld as proof of your deeds"

That was about the easiest thing ever and it can still mean a lot to you AND help you get off of just PUP once and a while.

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Originally Posted by dasva

Since when was more than 1-2 all? I can functionally fully merit over half a dozen jobs. I mean if you want to argue something I wasn't saying I recommend just quoting yourself and arguing back and forth with yourself instead.

And those weren't slightly more powerful. They were vastly more powerful and yes that is a type of force.

Also I've complained about merits before... and lo and behold they have raised limits several times over the years... almost like as the years have gone on they have wanted players to maximize more jobs. As far as DM again it was suppa or bust so the only complaint was the others sucked for the most part.... though there was the trick of getting 2 some people did.

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Can you name 1 ring that's "vastly more powerful"? Maybe snapshot +6 could be if snapshot cap isn't how we assume it is. Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for every WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that.

As far as DM goes the original goal was to force the players to make a choice as well. It's just that one choice was slightly better than others, so most players made the best choice easily. That doesn't mean their original goal does not want the players to choose. They just made a bad decision on the other options.

If one adoulin ring is a much better choice than others, maybe this thread won't exist, lol.

I would be happy with just 2 rings. Mostly because, as it has been mentioned, several of them have QoL stats.

If they would separate the rings into two categories; combat rings and non-combat rings, and let you choose one from each category that would be fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Can you name 1 ring that's "vastly more powerful"? Maybe snapshot +6 could be if snapshot cap isn't how we assume it is. Moonshade is like a thousand more dmg for every WS in 1 slot, I don't see any ring as OP as that.

As far as DM goes the original goal was to force the players to make a choice as well. It's just that one choice was slightly better than others, so most players made the best choice easily. That doesn't mean their original goal does not want the players to choose. They just made a bad decision on the other options.

If one adoulin ring is a much better choice than others, maybe this thread won't exist, lol.

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We were talking about previous rewards where you didn't have a hard time choosing because of power differences. So yeah again you're arguing against me with stuff I wasn't saying. Also it isn't adding 1000 dmg to almost every ws unless you are counting mobs with dmg weaknesses. It's good but not that good. Not even counting all the ones that don't have dmg modified by tp

And again it wasn't slightly better. It was the hands down choice if you had any job that could ever use it regardless of your other jobs. Saying it was slightly better is like saying tp bonus is slightly better than regain earrings

And yeah that was the entire point I was making. Before there wasn't such a wide range of real choices to make. That is the entire reason for the uproar this time. If 11 of the rings were sidegrade material there wouldn't be a push for more

I don't know what world where logical argumentation rules don't exist you come from Malphius, but I will try and help you understand:

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Originally Posted by Malphius

You're fixated on that one topic. So much so that you're dismissing everything else.

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Just because someone fixates on one topic (or subtopic of the whole) doesn't invalidate the fixater's argument; until that argument is proven false, that argument negates the possibility of your argument being valid.

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Originally Posted by Protey

first person i've ever heard of say that people don't have main jobs anymore. EVERYONE i know puts more effort into one job more than any other. Yes people play multiple jobs, but that doesn't mean they don't have a main job.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Nobody asks what your "main job" is. Now they as "what REM jobs do you have" or "what 119 jobs do you have". The expectation is that you have several very well geared jobs to participate in events with.

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Not asking what someone's main job is =/= them not having a main job.

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Originally Posted by Protey

I find it funny that people are complaining about not being able to get more than one ring. It's like a spoiled child getting something, but it's never enough. Some people aren't happy no matter what. But SE even catered to people like you, they made it so your choice isn't permanent.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

I'm far from the only one that didn't want reward choices to be permanent. There were plenty of "people like me" that asked SE to change it which they did. Just because they asked! How is it being a spoiled child when you ask for a change to the game? Also a service i've been paying for since the release. I think people have every right to ask for anything they want. It must be nice to be the only people on the Official Forum to never ask SE to change anything.

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Asking for a change =/= asking for more. Change is already having something and altering it. You are asking for more than what is given. So in this case... asking to be able to get a different ring/earring by dropping them and getting another.... that is change. Getting more than one is not change... that is getting more than what is given and so is why I called all of you spoiled children.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Folks, it's not an insult to Square or the developers to ask for a change to the game especially when there is plenty of merit to do so. This game is a business and their business is to offer a service. It's not personal and they don't take it personal. If they had announced the end rewards and you could select up to 3 rings, would the same people be making all this noise against it? Would they be demanding to receive only 1 ring or is this more about whatever the development team does is the way it must be and should be and I don't want to offend the company. I have a feeling it's the later.

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If they had only introduced 3 rings like CoP, say Woltaris, Karieyh, and Vocane, would you be making all this noise against it? If so, why don't you make a big hooplah about not being able to get refresh moonshade earring and TP moonshade earring.

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I don't know what world where logical argumentation rules don't exist you come from Malphius, but I will try and help you understand:

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Thanks for your assistance. I don't think its needed though.

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Just because someone fixates on one topic (or subtopic of the whole) doesn't invalidate the fixater's argument; until that argument is proven false, that argument negates the possibility of your argument being valid.

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What it shows is an inability to debate someone point per point and it shows bias to a specific particular topic. She frequently uses false equivalence in attempts to discredit the person she is trying to debate. It's been pointed out here and on other boards that he or she does this quite often. Their argument is invalid until they can make an appropriate and balanced comparison.

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Not asking what someone's main job is =/= them not having a main job.

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Here is the difference from myself and everyone else. I can admit when i'm wrong. This is true and I should not have stated it as fact. That's just my experience with the group I have been rolling with for so long now. I still think that the majority of players focus on a few jobs and not just one. There is a HUGE community with several REM weapons with the best gear for those jobs. It will depend person to person and with how much playtime they have.

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Asking for a change =/= asking for more. Change is already having something and altering it. You are asking for more than what is given. So in this case... asking to be able to get a different ring/earring by dropping them and getting another.... that is change. Getting more than one is not change... that is getting more than what is given and so is why I called all of you spoiled children.

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It's asking for a change to the reward system. It's asking for a change to the current rules. The result is that you come away with more items which increase your characters skill and ability. It doesn't matter what anyone asks for in this game, it's all for personal gain. That argument isn't going to work. Just like if I ask for a change to increase my RDM shield skill (as you recently did). You have been given additional and free shield skill points. Shield skill still works the same as it always has. Only a petulant child would be unhappy with what SE has already given them.

Also nobody asked for the rings to be free. Just that we have the ability to acquire more. You're making several assumptions that aren't true. It's been raised several times here and other places that we could have the ability to purchase an additional ring for an exorbitant amount of bayld. This has the side benefit of keeping Adoulin content relevant for much longer than it currently will be.

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If they had only introduced 3 rings like CoP, say Woltaris, Karieyh, and Vocane, would you be making all this noise against it? If so, why don't you make a big hooplah about not being able to get refresh moonshade earring and TP moonshade earring.

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Answer mine and i'll answer yours.

3 rings. <<Yes Please>> !!

I didn't say it was "wild conjecture". I said you were conjecturing wildly. There is a distinction.

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So presumably

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But I feel

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con·jec·ture
kənˈjekCHər/Submit
noun
1.
an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
"conjectures about the newcomer were many and varied"
synonyms: speculation, guesswork, surmise, fancy, presumption, assumption, theory, postulation, supposition; More
antonyms: fact
an unproven mathematical or scientific theorem.
"the Goldbach conjecture"
(in textual criticism) the suggestion or reconstruction of a reading of a text not present in the original source.
verb
verb: conjecture; 3rd person present: conjectures; past tense: conjectured; past participle: conjectured; gerund or present participle: conjecturing
1.
form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.
"he conjectured the existence of an otherwise unknown feature"
synonyms: guess, speculate, surmise, infer, fancy, imagine, believe, think, suspect, presume, assume, hypothesize, suppose
"I conjectured that the game was over"

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Btw you act like an obnoxious spoilt kid. Goodnight.

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Agreed.

/10char

lol its funny that people dont want more rings. I have a lot of jobs n being able to pick 2 or 3 isn't going to break anything. You still cant have the rest. You still have to make choices an ppl can still see what jobs u like.

This discussion got stuck it seems. Two fronts who are flaming each other. The actual topic has become secondary.

I personally felt like choosing one ring out of twelve is the hardest choice I have to make since the character creation when I saw the rings for the first time. While some rings are irrelevant to me it's still a very tough decision. I was and am torn between the different possibilities each ring provides.

So for me it's not a "I want more rings" like a spoiled child as some of you describe it. It's a request to ease the pain of choosing between 12 awesome items. nothing more.

I suggest a compromise: Let us choose 2 rings, just think about it before writing a reply!

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Originally Posted by Ethalio

This discussion got stuck it seems. Two fronts who are flaming each other. The actual topic has become secondary.

I personally felt like choosing one ring out of twelve is the hardest choice I have to make since the character creation when I saw the rings for the first time. While some rings are irrelevant to me it's still a very tough decision. I was and am torn between the different possibilities each ring provides.

So for me it's not a "I want more rings" like a spoiled child as some of you describe it. It's a request to ease the pain of choosing between 12 awesome items. nothing more.

I suggest a compromise: Let us choose 2 rings, just think about it before writing a reply!

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That's just it though -- some of us don't look at having to make a tough choice a bad thing. There will always be times where you can't get everything you want and have to make a difficult decision; that's life, especially as an adult.

And just like the poster above you said, "being able to pick 2 or 3 isn't going to break anything" -- Neither is having to pick only one. Personally, I like restrictions like this as it allows for people to add a little more individuality to their respective characters -- even if it comes at a cost -- instead of letting everyone have their cake and the ability to eat it too. And since this is how SE decided to do it, they seem to feel the same way about it.

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Originally Posted by Ethalio

This discussion got stuck it seems. Two fronts who are flaming each other. The actual topic has become secondary.

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That's why I try to drop my opinion on matters soon, because when certain individuals gets involved a lot of threads end up in the crapper.
And why? Usually for the sake of argument.
(I foresee that the individuals I mean will have their jimmies rustled by this, and there will be popcorn.)

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I suggest a compromise: Let us choose 2 rings, just think about it before writing a reply!

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Personally, I'm fine with choosing only one after finishing Adoulin.
I would however really like to see them consider an option where we, maybe just as a one time deal, are able to choose a second ring.
I don't care how, wether it be through a long and dificult quest, getting the maximum obtainable rank in all Coalitions, gathering of certain items or an ungodly amount of Bayld/Plasm/Fragments or as a rank X Mog Bonanza reward.

Unlike previous mission/quest rewards, most of these rings are fitted for very specific jobs and having to make a choice between them for a person like me which plays jobs in every aspect is nigh impossible.

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Personally, I'm fine with choosing only one after finishing Adoulin.
I would however really like to see them consider an option where we, maybe just as a one time deal, are able to choose a second ring.
I don't care how, wether it be through a long and dificult quest, getting the maximum obtainable rank in all Coalitions, gathering of certain items or an ungodly amount of Bayld/Plasm/Fragments or as a rank X Mog Bonanza reward.

Unlike previous mission/quest rewards, most of these rings are fitted for very specific jobs and having to make a choice between them for a person like me which plays jobs in every aspect is nigh impossible.

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/agree 100%!

It doesn't matter in which way we get a second ring. It'd just be nice to have the option to acquire another one out of the twelve.

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Originally Posted by dasva

We were talking about previous rewards where you didn't have a hard time choosing because of power differences. So yeah again you're arguing against me with stuff I wasn't saying. Also it isn't adding 1000 dmg to almost every ws unless you are counting mobs with dmg weaknesses. It's good but not that good. Not even counting all the ones that don't have dmg modified by tp

And again it wasn't slightly better. It was the hands down choice if you had any job that could ever use it regardless of your other jobs. Saying it was slightly better is like saying tp bonus is slightly better than regain earrings

And yeah that was the entire point I was making. Before there wasn't such a wide range of real choices to make. That is the entire reason for the uproar this time. If 11 of the rings were sidegrade material there wouldn't be a push for more

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"every WS" was a typo, you're right that not every WS gets 1k dmg boost(but some WS still gets around 1k dmg boost). But even then moonshade is still a bigger increase than most of the rings.

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Originally Posted by Ethalio

So for me it's not a "I want more rings" like a spoiled child as some of you describe it. It's a request to ease the pain of choosing between 12 awesome items. nothing more.

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This is really something I can't understand.....it's a PAIN to make a choice. >.> IMO making a choice is fun, it makes the game interesting. I just can't understand why is it a pain to choose between rings.

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Originally Posted by Afania

"every WS" was a typo, you're right that not every WS gets 1k dmg boost(but some WS still gets around 1k dmg boost). But even then moonshade is still a bigger increase than most of the rings.






This is really something I can't understand.....it's a PAIN to make a choice. >.> IMO making a choice is fun, it makes the game interesting. I just can't understand why is it a pain to choose between rings.

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I think that is the point Afania. That is the difference between us and them. I think that some people are real gamers who get enjoyment at the difficulty of games by the choices we are forced to make. And I think the others are not real gamers, they are here just for a bit of entertainment and so want to acquire everything without having to make those hard choices.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

It's asking for a change to the reward system. It's asking for a change to the current rules. The result is that you come away with more items which increase your characters skill and ability. It doesn't matter what anyone asks for in this game, it's all for personal gain. That argument isn't going to work. Just like if I ask for a change to increase my RDM shield skill (as you recently did). You have been given additional and free shield skill points. Shield skill still works the same as it always has. Only a petulant child would be unhappy with what SE has already given them.

Also nobody asked for the rings to be free. Just that we have the ability to acquire more. You're making several assumptions that aren't true. It's been raised several times here and other places that we could have the ability to purchase an additional ring for an exorbitant amount of bayld. This has the side benefit of keeping Adoulin content relevant for much longer than it currently will be.



Answer mine and i'll answer yours.

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Those 2 comparisons are not the same. If I had asked for RDM to have Blue Magic Skill, which doesn't exist at all for RDM, then that would be a valid argument against me. However, I asked for a change in what is already there. Also, while they are additional capable shield points, one would still have to obtain them, so it wouldn't be free. How does this apply to the ring choice? You are already given one. The change is that you are able to drop the ring and choose another. The bringing into existence what wasn't there is a 2nd ring.

And yes I would make noise against it. Read my post I just made regarding what Afania said. That is why.

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And I think the others are not real gamers

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Are you really making the no true Scotsman argument?

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Originally Posted by Aarahs

Are you really making the no true Scotsman argument?

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not familiar with that term. What I am saying is that Gamers want to obtain the things they get through difficult intellectual work. The non-Gamers want to obtain things without having to do much of anything for them. So it isn't so much of an argument, as a definition.

I suppose non-Gamers is a misnomer, as they are playing the game. Can just call them TV People i guess. Since they just want everything fed to them.

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"every WS" was a typo

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That's not a typo. A typo is where you make a small grammar mistake because you hit the wrong key on a keyboard. You were just wrong. It's okay to admit. Nobody will judge you for being wrong. We all make mistakes. Where you will get judged is for trying to be a manipulative liar.

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I think that is the point Afania. That is the difference between us and them.

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Clearly and thankfully. Take a look at what the BG forums are saying about this thread. They make me look polite.

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Those 2 comparisons are not the same. If I had asked for RDM to have Blue Magic Skill, which doesn't exist at all for RDM, then that would be a valid argument against me. However, I asked for a change in what is already there. Also, while they are additional capable shield points, one would still have to obtain them, so it wouldn't be free. How does this apply to the ring choice? You are already given one. The change is that you are able to drop the ring and choose another. The bringing into existence what wasn't there is a 2nd ring.

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You're asking for ADDITIONAL new skill points to come into existence. You don't already have them, that's why you're asking for more. The change you asked for is for there to be more! So if I have a shield skill of 200 and I ask for more shield skill and now I have 250, that's 50 more than you previously had. That's not just a change, it's an increase. You measurably got 50 more shield skill points. 50 new points have been brought into existence. Regardless of how we agree on the semantics, you're asking for something for personal gain and you're asking for SE to give it to you. By your own argument, you are a childish, non-gamer, that hates a challenge that just wants something fed to them. You should probably go watch TV. Sounds ridiculous, right?

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What I am saying is that Gamers want to obtain the things they get through difficult intellectual work.

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Thats funny. I thought gamers wanted to waste time having fun. I guess we have different definitions of difficult intellectual work. I mean, you're not at the CERN Laboratory. You're not curing cancer. You're not solving world hunger. At best, the "difficult intellectual work" is a mildly annoying puzzle but FFXI doesn't even have those.

SE should just satisfy the entire player base here. Nobody that gets the option to get an additional ring is going to be mad. They'll be mad they "lost" on a message board but that will soon subside when they get to pick their shiny new ring for their other job class.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

That's not a typo. A typo is where you make a small grammar mistake because you hit the wrong key on a keyboard. You were just wrong. It's okay to admit. Nobody will judge you for being wrong. We all make mistakes. Where you will get judged is for trying to be a manipulative liar.



Clearly and thankfully. Take a look at what the BG forums are saying about this thread. They make me look polite.



You're asking for ADDITIONAL new skill points to come into existence. You don't already have them, that's why you're asking for more. The change you asked for is for there to be more! So if I have a shield skill of 200 and I ask for more shield skill and now I have 250, that's 50 more than you previously had. That's not just a change, it's an increase. You measurably got 50 more shield skill points. 50 new points have been brought into existence. Regardless of how we agree on the semantics, you're asking for something for personal gain and you're asking for SE to give it to you. By your own argument, you are a childish, non-gamer, that hates a challenge that just wants something fed to them. You should probably go watch TV. Sounds ridiculous, right?



Thats funny. I thought gamers wanted to waste time having fun. I guess we have different definitions of difficult intellectual work. I mean, you're not at the CERN Laboratory. You're not curing cancer. You're not solving world hunger. At best, the "difficult intellectual work" is a mildly annoying puzzle but FFXI doesn't even have those.

SE should just satisfy the entire player base here. Nobody that gets the option to get an additional ring is going to be mad. They'll be mad they "lost" on a message board but that will soon subside when they get to pick their shiny new ring for their other job class.

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by that reasoning, any change is an addition. stop twisting things around.

The difficult intellectual work is the strategic decision making in a game. wtf does CERN or curing lung cancer have to do with this. you really need to work on your logical argumentation.

what we get mad about is people like you who want things just given to them and are attempting to change the game in a way that will make it less enjoyable for those of us that aren't like you.

and you still haven't fulfilled your promise to answer my question.

It's a hard choice, absolutely. I think it's okay we're asked to make the choice though. Most people will end up picking one of a handful of those rings. A few die hards will pick something else more beneficial to one of the game's more unloved jobs. Or something that benefits their playstyle specifically (crafters with the crafting ring, pet players with the pet ring)

Most people will pick the WS/regain ring since it benefits the most competitive slot, which is DD

Maybe when they see only 1 in a 500 players picks the pet ring they will see that those jobs need some help ;)

On the bright side the rewards are so good here we are talking about them :)

I want them all... and now I actually feel like it's worth doing the missions.

I guess I am on the fence, only if because several of these rings are so powerful it will make it harder for people who want to play a job that can benefit from it to play the job without it. Like a melee player without the regain WS ring... that's a pretty substantial boost to give up.

I am trying to convince myself to get the pet one. It's hard though!

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by that reasoning, any change is an addition. stop twisting things around.

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It's pretty obvious on its face. Any change that results in positive and measurable growth is an addition. If they lowered shield skill and it went from 200 to 150 that would be a reduction. You are clearly incorrect that any change is an addition. Nothing has been twisted.

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The difficult intellectual work is the strategic decision making in a game. wtf does CERN or curing lung cancer have to do with this. you really need to work on your logical argumentation.

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This game isn't hard. Sorry. Saying video games are difficult intellectual work is insulting to people that actually perform difficult intellectual work such as the fields I mentioned.

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what we get mad about is people like you who want things just given to them and are attempting to change the game in a way that will make it less enjoyable for those of us that aren't like you.

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Couldn't care less how mad you are at me. I never asked for it for free (once again). I would be perfectly fine with earning it the same way you would be your shield skill points. I'm finding it exceptionally hard to believe that anyone would find the game less enjoyable with more equipment choices. The game is build around get better gear > get better gear > get better gear.

To answer your question no I would not be asking to select all 3 rings just like i'm not asking to select all 12 rings. I'm asking to select 3 rings, which is 1/4 the rewards. Selecting 1 of 3 rings btw was 1/3 the rewards. You were selecting a higher % of reward content.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

It's pretty obvious on its face. Any change that results in positive and measurable growth is an addition. If they lowered shield skill and it went from 200 to 150 that would be a reduction. You are clearly incorrect that any change is an addition. Nothing has been twisted.



This game isn't hard. Sorry. Saying video games are difficult intellectual work is insulting to people that actually perform difficult intellectual work such as the fields I mentioned.



Couldn't care less how mad you are at me. I never asked for it for free (once again). I would be perfectly fine with earning it the same way you would be your shield skill points. I'm finding it exceptionally hard to believe that anyone would find the game less enjoyable with more equipment choices. The game is build around get better gear > get better gear > get better gear.

To answer your question no I would not be asking to select all 3 rings just like i'm not asking to select all 12 rings. I'm asking to select 3 rings, which is 1/4 the rewards. Selecting 1 of 3 rings btw was 1/3 the rewards. You were selecting a higher % of reward content.

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it is twisting, Addition does not necessarily mean bringing into existence. Adding skill to what was already there is not bringing into existence something that wasn't there before. it is changing what was already there. And if you look at why I put it there from the other thread, it was because RDM should have higher shield skill than a WHM. RDM is a melee class (note I did not say heavy DD), as well as other classes. Whereas WHM is not. Also, putting RDM at C- shield skill will not provide any significant gain.

I never said this game is hard. I don't know if you are arguing the way you are because you're oblivious or what. It is like you never took an argumentation logic class. Saying video games are difficult intellectual work is not insulting to those people. Obviously I was referring to making difficult strategic decisions IN A GAME. You keep on taking what is said and view it with some warped point of view, state that warped point of view as if it was a fact, and then judge others against that. It's like you're a liberal.


What does getting % of reward content come from? It has always been one choice out of all. You just arbitrarily said "o, that just happens to be such and such % of the whole, so I will say I should have the same % for this new reward!" You are the one not being consistent.

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Originally Posted by Protey

not familiar with that term.

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No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy in which someone argues that someone doesn't fit into a certain group, as any true member of said group would share a specific trait. In this case, the title of "gamer" is the one we're using and what was said is basically... "no true gamer would want more than one ring as true gamers get enjoyment at the difficulty of games by the choices we are forced to make". This is a very clear example of a NTS argument because you're using one trait you believe defines a gamer to determine if anyone else is or isn't a "true" gamer. Either way, just thought I'd share so ya knew.

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Addition does not necessarily mean bringing into existence. Adding skill to what was already there is not bringing into existence something that wasn't there before.

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If it didn't exist before hand, then it was brought into existence. If you didn't have it before, then where did it come from? Did you transfer shield skill points from somewhere else? No? Then it was brought into existence.

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if you look at why I put it there from the other thread, it was because RDM should have higher shield skill than a WHM.

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Says you. RDM is a jack of all traits but primarily a support job (Buffs/Enfeebles). Your request has as much merit as the people asking for extra rings.

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I never said this game is hard.

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You're right, you said it was "difficult" which is a synonym for hard. It means the same thing. You stated that the game is Intellectually difficult. Which I believe for you, it is.

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It is like you never took an argumentation logic class.

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I must have missed "argumentation logic class" 101 in college.

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You keep on taking what is said and view it with some warped point of view, state that warped point of view as if it was a fact, and then judge others against that.

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It's not my fault you don't know what you're saying.

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It's like you're a liberal.

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How should I even respond to this? It's like you're actually the one that's a child and you're losing your argument so you resort to wild personal attacks that you pull from thin air.

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What does getting % of reward content come from? It has always been one choice out of all. You just arbitrarily said "o, that just happens to be such and such % of the whole, so I will say I should have the same % for this new reward!" You are the one not being consistent.

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Because you think it's just too much. Obviously we have to base the future on the past like you and others keep saying. Never mind that this situation already isn't the same as before so those rules can go out the window. When working with different amounts of items you have to break it down into % to make accurate comparisons. It's not arbitrary. Obtaining 3/12 rings still keeps the exclusivity of the rewards. You still can't have the other 9.

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You are the one not being consistent.

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Because I don't care how we get them. Just that we can.

I'm not sure why everyone wants the Karieyh ring (regain ring), to me it doesn't look all that great. The regain is only +5, which is 0.5% if you are still using the old parlance, so that is really actually quite weak, and suffers from a huge flaw. That flaw being that it does not scale with haste, the competition for the ring slot are most notably Rajas ring and Epona's ring. Rajas ring mostly for the Store TP trait, which does scale with haste, i.e. the more haste you have the more tp over time you will gain from Store TP. I can't do the math, but I'm willing to bet that Store TP +5 will get you more TP over time in high haste situations then Regain +5 will. And obviously the double/triple attack from Epona's ring also scales with haste, the faster you swing the more procs you will get in a certain period of time. So the only use I can see for the regain is for getting max tp before a fight, assuming you don't have access to another form of regain (meditate, SCH, COR, Opo opo necklace, etc.), but that would be a very very long wait, 10 minutes just to reach 1000 tp...

Really the best stat on that ring is the WS damage, meaning it would be a WS swap ring thereby making the Regain stat pointless. And it doesn't seem like 3% is all that much. 3% of a 10k WS is only 300 damage, that's not a whole lot, yes it will probably be more then you'd get from another ring, but probably not by much.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

If it didn't exist before hand, then it was brought into existence. If you didn't have it before, then where did it come from? Did you transfer shield skill points from somewhere else? No? Then it was brought into existence.

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RDM already has shield skill. It is not brought into existence, it is already there. I already said the example of RDM having shield skill (already exists) vs RDM having blue magic skill (does not already exist).

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Originally Posted by Malphius

You're right, you said it was "difficult" which is a synonym for hard. It means the same thing. You stated that the game is Intellectually difficult. Which I believe for you, it is.

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I think this conversation is intellectually difficult for you as you can't even pay attention to what was said. I said "Gamers want to obtain the things they get through difficult intellectual work"; that is not the same as saying "This game is difficult/hard". Another instance of you taking something that was said and twisting it with your warped point of view.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

I must have missed "argumentation logic class" 101 in college.

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Obviously.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

It's not my fault I don't know what I'm saying.

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FTFY.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

How should I even respond to this? It's like you're actually the one that's a child and you're losing your argument so you resort to wild personal attacks that you pull from thin air.

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Made an observation to how you argue. Then correlated that with the only people I know of that argue like that. You may or may not be one, which is why I didn't say you were one, just it seems like you are.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Because you think it's just too much. Obviously we have to base the future on the past like you and others keep saying. Never mind that this situation already isn't the same as before so those rules can go out the window. When working with different amounts of items you have to break it down into % to make accurate comparisons. It's not arbitrary. Obtaining 3/12 rings still keeps the exclusivity of the rewards. You still can't have the other 9.

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How is the situation different so that the rules go out the window? There was a storyline. There is a reward you get to choose from for completing that storyline. If you say it is because there is more choices.... CoP had 1 of 3 choices. Zilart had 1 of 5 choices. Aht Urhgan had 1 of 3 choices. What is this rule that requires that when you work with different amounts of items you have to break it down into % to make comparisons? When regardless of the amount of items, you always only get to choose one, there is no such rule. Doesn't matter if you are comparing 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 100 to 1 out of a google. you still only get to choose 1.

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Originally Posted by Malphius

Because I don't care how we get them. Just that we can.

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and this sums up the whole problem. You don't care how you obtain stuff. Those of us arguing against you do.

edit: Also, those of us arguing against you think that just because something exists doesn't mean necessarily that you have a right to it. We that are arguing against you believe that a game should require difficult decision making (and no I don't mean some huge intellectual feat like figuring out how to prevent quantum tunneling effects when working with micro-circuitry, I'm referring to strategic game decisions). Why? It makes a game more fun that way.... at least for us that are arguing against you.