Ask Localization Megathread

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

lol... please treat me nicely...

the real reward has a : in it too :O

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They added the "Reward:" in response to it, there was only "Reward" as referring to the job ability earlier than that.

Also, I just found Mano-Amano. Is it me, or is it weird that Spanish is a language found in Vana'diel?

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Originally Posted by Suteru

They added the "Reward:" in response to it, there was only "Reward" as referring to the job ability earlier than that.

Also, I just found Mano-Amano. Is it me, or is it weird that Spanish is a language found in Vana'diel?

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I know, was implying today :D

I remember back when Reward was all there was, there was basically a PSA on BG about it being something like Ul said lol

I think this falls into the purview of localization, since maybe something was lost in translation trying to get this to fit into a tiny spreadsheet box: In the patch preview for the September version, when you say WoE 2 is "a high-tier version to occur at a set percentage" are you saying there's a chance on entry for it to be either WoE 1 or WoE 2, or does WoE 2 open up when WoE 1's completion rate or whatever reaches a certain percentage?

How do you decide which "r" to roll when writing Mithran dialog? Does it depend on the character?
Are the Mithran accent and Tarutaru speech pattern represented in a similar way in Japanese?

I'm not sure if this next question is outside of the topic, but -
Are any characters based on famous personalities? Or, has the dev team ever thought of any actors/voice actors that would represent some of the more colorful characters of Vana'diel? (I vote Tom Hiddleston for Lehko...)

Is it hard coming up with word play? For example, I was extremely impressed by the Map Marker npcs, the ones that only speak in words using 'M'. How long does it take to write dialogue for NPCs like that?

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"Good day! I'm a Merry Map Marker, and I'd be emphatically ecstatic if you'd allow me to mark your magical map! A markless map of Al Zhabi is like a motherless maiden, meandering through a miasmatic mire of misery. Marvelous! Now allow me a minute to make all my marks!". "Our local minstrel of melodies can be found here. His mirthful musicalities may help you to recall misplaced memories.Ah, and in the case you might wish to mask a meritorious moniker and replace it with one a mite more merited, a traveling bard strums upon his melilflous harp here. And mayhap you are immeasurably motivated to compete in the medieval mayhem of Conflict? Might I suggest you mingle with the modest Pursiviant located here? Methinks I have marked your magical map with as many marks as I might manage.Monitoring and managing your marks as a simple as merely opening your map and selecting Markers from the main menu. If the marks on your map might vanish mope not like a melancholy milksop. Make another meeting with me and I shall make it my mission to mark the map once more. Good day mi'lord. May your marches across meadow and mountain be markedly memorable!.

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Whoever wrote this deserves a huge promotion.

Delve localization question:

When fighting the transcendent scorpion, the battle message reads "the spring has returned to your step" when a debuff wears off the scorpion. This does not make sense in context. Is this message a mistranslation that was supposed to refer to the scorpion rather than the player?

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Originally Posted by pancakesandsx

Also, when you use a delve shard to get plasm, the message has said menace plasm instead of mywea since the event was introduced.

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Hmmm, wasn't that fixed? Reported here, and I recently used a russet yggrete shard IV which did indeed speak of mweya, not menace (sadly). Are these something different?


Anyblue, I remembered something at last, and I shall quote a thread of mine so as to not just type it all over again:

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Is anyone able to tell me since when did Sakura speak languages other than Japanese?

I always figured her speech was intentionally not translated during the chocobo races. For those who never went to one, all she says is: “ピヨ！”(piyo!) and: “ピヨピヨ！”(piyopiyo!), which Markovich interprets.

I understand that having her speech not 'translated' might confuse players, but I, for one, dislike inconsistency. A lot. It's only made worse by the fact that the Sakura Biscuit is consistent regarding this matter, like so:

http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/w/images...ra_biscuit.png

That is, of course, assuming that not translating her in any way was intentional in the first place. ^^

Perhaps whomever was in charge was unaware of how Sakura has been handled in the past, or it was a conscious decision so as to not “confuse” players. Or I'm confuddled myself. Either way, it seems to me that it's not the alter ego of Sakura at all, but a nisemono!

'Tis simply wrong. A kind of a translation error from what I see, which I actually was/am debating with myself on reporting it as.


Blubb!

(Note that I'm not as angry as I may have made it (intentionally) seem like, but inconsistencies truly are more and/or less silly, annoying, and even maddening to some!)

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Sheesh. That truly seems a bit more angry than I cared to remember. I'm not a fan of trust/faith in general, so it really doesn't matter that much to me. Definitely not angry, but curious. Yes.

I'm still guessing it was very much intentional since I can see people thinking it would be weird to have the same thing going on in the party channel.


Danks!

Unelonborro, you still with us? D: Lots of questions left unanswered, had assumed perhaps you were just busy with the conclusion of the SoA missions, but many questions and issues reported in this sub forum have been left unanswered.

Hello, everyone!

The past version updates have had me running around like a madman, but now that the December update is upon us I can get back to this thread for a little bit!

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Originally Posted by Olor

Thanks so much! This is a great thread.

Why did the team choose rune fencer instead of rune knight? Is it similar to the reasons for PLD above?

How come Red Mage is referred to as a fencer via equipment (Fencer's earring & Fencer's ring both RDM only) yet doesn't have the ability fencer?

How do you come up with the names of BST familiars?

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Rune Fencer vs. Rune Knight was something that was debated quite a lot internally, and there were many arguments to be made for both sides. How often does a knight run around with a great sword? How about a fencer? The answer is...not much, for either of them. In the end, we settled on Rune Fencer because the term had been used before in other Final Fantasy games, so we went with something that had a bit more visibility.

For Red Mage being a fencer via equipment but not having the ability Fencer--that's something that was before my time, so I cannot provide a definitive answer. However, I agree with you that the disconnect is a bit disconcerting!

The names of BST familiars tend to take the form of adjective + name, and when it comes down to it we try to think of combinations that either sound well together or have some special meaning. There are a couple names I've been trying to work in, but I can't seem to find the best timing for it...

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Originally Posted by Nyerieri

When the text description for items was moved to 2 boxes (now sometimes 3) It was said that the main text description for items can hold 7 lines I believe. Why do some items not follow that rule? I've seen some items where the main text for the item only has 6 lines before moving to the second page.

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I'd have to ask around to be sure, but I think part of it depends on whether or not the list of classes that can equip it spills over into two lines!

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Originally Posted by Suteru

They added the "Reward:" in response to it, there was only "Reward" as referring to the job ability earlier than that.

Also, I just found Mano-Amano. Is it me, or is it weird that Spanish is a language found in Vana'diel?

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I remember Mano-Amano. I had to make a judgment call when we were working with him--do I play him straight Tarutaru, or do I go a bit crazier with him? In this decision impacted by the fact that "mano a mano" is a Spanish phrase? This could have gone either way, but I decided to run with it.

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Originally Posted by Mitruya

How do you decide which "r" to roll when writing Mithran dialog? Does it depend on the character?
Are the Mithran accent and Tarutaru speech pattern represented in a similar way in Japanese?

I'm not sure if this next question is outside of the topic, but -
Are any characters based on famous personalities? Or, has the dev team ever thought of any actors/voice actors that would represent some of the more colorful characters of Vana'diel? (I vote Tom Hiddleston for Lehko...)

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Which "r" to roll with mithras largely depends on what we feel sounds good and flow better with the sentence. I know that sounds a bit flaky, as localization if more of an art than a science, but we do have several guidelines:

* We try to roll the Rs on syllables that are stressed.
* We avoid making multiple Rs rolled in the same sentence.
* We avoid rolling Rs on any syllables that would end up making the Mithra sound like a pirate.

For accents in the Japanese, occasionally Mithra will make cat noises depending on what the dev is going for in Japanese, but randomly having Mithra meow is rather...weird. When that come up we usually make puns about shooting fish in a barrel, or describing something as the cat's meow...something that evokes cat imagery without mimicking cat sounds.

Tartaru do not have any racial inflections in Japanese like they do in English, barring a couple of iconic characters (like Koru-Moru). Having them talk differently in English was a decision made long before my time. I'm not convinced I would have made the same decisions were I at the helm. Due to things like linguistic drift, I'd prefer to have a Windurst accent, a Bastok accent, and a San d'Oria accent. But if we did it that way, we wouldn't have the cute Tarutaru accents we do today! There's definitely arguments to be made for both sides.

I'm not sure if the devs have in mindany specific voice actors for particular roles, but I'm picturing Cree Summer as Shantotto and I'm not laughing...

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Originally Posted by Xsilver

Is it hard coming up with word play? For example, I was extremely impressed by the Map Marker npcs, the ones that only speak in words using 'M'. How long does it take to write dialogue for NPCs like that?



Whoever wrote this deserves a huge promotion.

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Alliteration is always a tough one to handle, as it often dictates the grammar you can used while still having the sentence flow naturally. If you notice, over time our moogles have used more and more alliteration--I'm not sure when, but somewhere along the line the whole song and dance took them over!

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Originally Posted by pancakesandsx

Delve localization question:

When fighting the transcendent scorpion, the battle message reads "the spring has returned to your step" when a debuff wears off the scorpion. This does not make sense in context. Is this message a mistranslation that was supposed to refer to the scorpion rather than the player?

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I'll have to take a closer look into this one. Let me see if I can get something fixed for January.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Hmmm, wasn't that fixed? Reported here, and I recently used a russet yggrete shard IV which did indeed speak of mweya, not menace (sadly). Are these something different?


Anyblue, I remembered something at last, and I shall quote a thread of mine so as to not just type it all over again:



Sheesh. That truly seems a bit more angry than I cared to remember. I'm not a fan of trust/faith in general, so it really doesn't matter that much to me. Definitely not angry, but curious. Yes.

I'm still guessing it was very much intentional since I can see people thinking it would be weird to have the same thing going on in the party channel.


Danks!

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You raise a very interesting question, and I think there are a couple factors at play. Note that these apply to pretty much every MMO out there.

* When dealing with something that happened in the past (either in real life terms, or in-game terms), to what extent do you remain faithful, and to what extent do you reimagine it?
* How has the direction of the game changed or remained the same?
* What are the players' expectations?
* How would the decision look if viewed in context? In a vacuum?

There are no cut-and-dried answers here. In Sakura's case, you have two arguments: 1. Sakura should continue to speak in katakana, because that's how she is originally, and 2. Sakura should make her noises in English, because that's easier to understand for people who aren't familiar with her backstory. Ultimately, the team opted for the latter. Sakura's alter ego is not tied to any specific event, and you can receive it regardless of whether or not you've had any interaction with her at all. In the context of first meeting Sakura, the player is initially confused--why is she speaking in Japanese?--but Markovich is there to steer you in the right direction, so you are able to understand right away. But put yourself in the shoes of someone who's never met her in person and just grabbed her alter ego. "Why is she speaking in Japanese? That's got to be something the translators overlooked!" It breaks their immersion in the game. So we have to ask ourselves the following question:

"Do the positives of staying faithful to Sakura's characterization outweight the negatives of new players feeling uncomfortable?"

Different leads might have taken a different approach, but I chose the latter, given that I cannot guarantee that the player would have interacted with Sakura before.

However, I can understand and sympathize with the opposing argument!

This may be an easy question to answer. In the English version, many pieces of equipment have names in other languages(French, German, Japanese, Spanish). For example the general word for Sword in French is Epee, but there is a piece of equipment called Epee already in FFXI. For English speakers, Epee refers to a specific kind of thin French fencing sword. In the French version, is the item named "Epee" called something else to not confuse it with other 'swords', because it would be weird for English users if there was a skill called "Sword Skill" and there was a weapon called literally: 'Sword', but I imagine that's what happens with the French version? Schwert is a general word for any Sword in German but in FFXI Schwert refers to a thin rapier, so in the German version I guess Schwert remains Schwert, but what are other weapons and the sword skill itself called? Eisenbrust in german means Iron Breastplate but there's already Iron Mail/Breastplate in the English version, do they keep the English name 'Breastplate' for the item Breastplate or are they both translated as Eisenbrust for the german version? XD

Another confusing thing is that the word for "Spear" in french is "Lance". There are two weapons in the Polearm category in FFXI that in English are called Spear, and Lance. When playing the French version, what are these two items autotranslated into for french players? I wonder if the French version uses borrowed english words like 'Spear' to keep the same cultural relevance and meaning intact, similar to how Great Katanas and Katanas are called by their Japanese name and not things like 'Flying Swallow' or 'Helm Splitter' or 'Cherry Blossom'?

Many thanks for the answer(s), Unelonborro!

With regards to my question, it is then as I suspected (and hoped), pretty much on the dot! While I did fear a bit that the detail had not been taken into consideration, I didn't really believe that it could have been the case. I do have more faith available than that!

Thanks again!

Will need to think of something else to ask now, hmmm...

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Originally Posted by Unelonborro

As a brief aside, the reason I am able to get information relatively quickly is because I sit next to the devs (if I blew hard enough, I could probably make Matsui's hair move, although for a variety of reasons I have yet to try this.)

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I think FFXI players as a collective would implore you to blow his direction, or a firm smack.

With that said, wanted to thank the Localization team. You guys are a big reason that FFXI was enjoyable for a good long while. I'll miss many of the creative quips from NPCs, everything from the Green Thumb Moogle, the JSE Cape NPC, the Marry Map Markers, and many others that I don't need to list because their awesomeness is known.

Now that the game is winding down, will is be possible to have the first 17-18 Vanadiel Tribunes translated to fill people in on the lore that they gave? We got all the ones after NA launch, but the earlier ones were neglected.

Also, in PlayOnline Viewer, my avatar icon doesn't show up. I picked Elly Van Houten when I started on JP PS2 back in 2002. I noticed that after I got my account region changed, she doesn't show up in the English PlayOnline Viewer. There appear to be several avatar categories that don't display on the English client. Could we have those listed?

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Originally Posted by Malithar

I think FFXI players as a collective would implore you to blow his direction, or a firm smack.

With that said, wanted to thank the Localization team. You guys are a big reason that FFXI was enjoyable for a good long while. I'll miss many of the creative quips from NPCs, everything from the Green Thumb Moogle, the JSE Cape NPC, the Marry Map Markers, and many others that I don't need to list because their awesomeness is known.

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Good day, Malithar,

Thank you very much for your kind words of support! As the announcement stated, we've still got a lot of stories to tell--not with just the Rhapsodies of Vana'diel series of updates in May, August, and November, but also Adoulin quest lines that we have yet to wrap up. If you like event-based, lore-related content, you'll be very pleased with the sheer volume of what's coming up over the next eight months.

It's the support of people like you--and everyone else in this thread--that make localizing the world of Vana'diel such a joy. I love going on both the official forums and fan site forums (you know which ones) to read what people have to say. In each word of praise and note of criticism I can feel the passion that everyone has for FINAL FANTASY XI, and I'm very privileged to have contributed in some small way to your experiences.

In the immediate future, however, we've got the March patch coming up in just a few short days, so be sure to give the Xol Triumvirate the what-for!

Unelonborro
Localization Lead

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Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

Now that the game is winding down, will is be possible to have the first 17-18 Vanadiel Tribunes translated to fill people in on the lore that they gave? We got all the ones after NA launch, but the earlier ones were neglected.

Also, in PlayOnline Viewer, my avatar icon doesn't show up. I picked Elly Van Houten when I started on JP PS2 back in 2002. I noticed that after I got my account region changed, she doesn't show up in the English PlayOnline Viewer. There appear to be several avatar categories that don't display on the English client. Could we have those listed?

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Good day, bungiefanNA,

The Vana'diel Tribune certainly was a highlight back in the day, and I understand the desire to get some of the earlier issues translated. That would be a large undertaking, and I'm not sure how feasible it would be to localize them at this juncture with the amount of content coming between now and November--and, unfortunately, it's not my call to make. But consider the request duly noted!

As for the PlayOnline viewer, I'm afraid I can't help you terribly much. The community team would certainly like to hear your feedback about it, so be sure to post it in a subforum that'll grab their attention more quickly!

Unelonborro
Localization Lead

Thank you so much for your work, I greatly appreciate it.

I love this thread. For many years I’ve appreciated the work the localization team does on XI. You guys do a fantastic job. I could list many examples from story moments and character dialog, but I’ll stick to one of my favorite elements: artifact, relic and empyrean equipment names.

The names of artifact and relic equipment were a way to imagine my character graduating to the next level of his discipline. Through hard work and study I was promoted from a Red Mage to a Warlock! And then a Duelist! It was like getting a fancy new title at work, but with a more badass name. Just as important, it reminded me of the famous class evolution of FF1 that I’ve loved since I played the original on the NES decades ago.

Artifact and relic names were mostly familiar to anyone with a fantasy background. This wasn’t a bad thing; they evoked nostalgia along with that feeling of graduation to the next level. However, when the Empyrean armor sets came out, you guys took the title promotion up another notch with obscure references that were totally fitting, but also new to many people. I actually spent a few hours one night researching all of those names. Some of them were good but obvious, like Creed and Savant, but I had a blast with Goetia, Orison, Estoqueur, Mavi, and many others. Once again Final Fantasy was teaching me something. Excellent job on these!

I was happy to see this become a trend. When reforged armor was announced, my secret hope was for new titles, and not just bland “Duelist’s Tights +3”. I was ecstatic to see more interesting names used in all three reforged sets, as well as the GEO and RUN armor. My favorites are Arbatel (which I had never heard before but enjoyed reading about) and Azimuth (which I actually vaguely recalled from my college days as a math major).

Now for my questions:
1. What exactly is Vitivation from? I can make sense of vitiation, but not vitivation. I have to admit though, vitivation actually rolls off my tongue better.
2. I know absolutely no Japanese. Are the JSE names translations of the same word in Japanese or do you guys come up with your own “new titles” for us?
3. I would love to know more about the process of deciding on these names from empyrean to reforged sets. I think it’s fantastic that you watched YouTube Waltzes for hours to decide on Contradance. What kind of research went into Arbatel and Azimuth? Where on Earth did you pull Estoqueur from? By the way, I still find it funny that Duelist and Estoqueur sets have no melee stats on them while the Warlock set does, but the names themselves sound great :)

Would it be possible for the localization team to clue us in how the proper pronounciations of this extremely difficult names?

Xzomit? (Zomit? Exzomit? Kisomit?)
Hu'Xzoi (Hu exoy? Hu soy?)
Pso 'Xja (So Ja?)
Abdhaljs (Abdal-jis?)

Also what compelled you guys to name placed that have unusual consonant pairs. It almost seems like you slam your head on the keyboard or throw darts at a board with random letters. Sorry if that was insulting but these are the strangest name out of any MMORPG I have ever played, or any video game for that manner.

Also finally, I know this is more of a lore kind of thing and you guys may not be able to answer it but will we ever learn what the naming convention prefixes for Zilart things mean? I would hate for FFXI to end without these questions being answered either in game or through whoever's in charge of story boards. There must have been a reason behind these prefixes.

Ru'
Ra'
Hu'
Aw'
Au'
Ix'
Om'
Ul'
Eo'

etc...

Another name question! (sorry! ^^;.)

Back when I first unlocked PUP and went through the Automaton naming process I was blown away by the variety of options - I went for Herzog because it reminded me of an old game on the SEGA Genesis that I used to ace as a kid, Herzog Zwei, but there was a mountain of other options I probably would picked.. so, that being said; Did the Devs just scribble down a army of random names and pull them from the hat and chose those for the in-game list? or were all these names related to something irl?

One name I could call out from the list is Calcobrena, that was from FFIV.

Since you handled localization and know about the new character introduced in Rapsodies...

My question is :

In your opinion, will she be an even better waifu than Arciela?

Good day, everyone,

I have some more time to answer your questions now that my work for the May patch is done. In terms of text volume, it's approximately equal to the November patch, when the final chapter of Seekers of Adoulin was released--and this is the shortest of the three chapters in Rhapsodies of Vana'diel.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

I love this thread. For many years I’ve appreciated the work the localization team does on XI. You guys do a fantastic job. I could list many examples from story moments and character dialog, but I’ll stick to one of my favorite elements: artifact, relic and empyrean equipment names.

The names of artifact and relic equipment were a way to imagine my character graduating to the next level of his discipline. Through hard work and study I was promoted from a Red Mage to a Warlock! And then a Duelist! It was like getting a fancy new title at work, but with a more badass name. Just as important, it reminded me of the famous class evolution of FF1 that I’ve loved since I played the original on the NES decades ago.

Artifact and relic names were mostly familiar to anyone with a fantasy background. This wasn’t a bad thing; they evoked nostalgia along with that feeling of graduation to the next level. However, when the Empyrean armor sets came out, you guys took the title promotion up another notch with obscure references that were totally fitting, but also new to many people. I actually spent a few hours one night researching all of those names. Some of them were good but obvious, like Creed and Savant, but I had a blast with Goetia, Orison, Estoqueur, Mavi, and many others. Once again Final Fantasy was teaching me something. Excellent job on these!

I was happy to see this become a trend. When reforged armor was announced, my secret hope was for new titles, and not just bland “Duelist’s Tights +3”. I was ecstatic to see more interesting names used in all three reforged sets, as well as the GEO and RUN armor. My favorites are Arbatel (which I had never heard before but enjoyed reading about) and Azimuth (which I actually vaguely recalled from my college days as a math major).

Now for my questions:
1. What exactly is Vitivation from? I can make sense of vitiation, but not vitivation. I have to admit though, vitivation actually rolls off my tongue better.
2. I know absolutely no Japanese. Are the JSE names translations of the same word in Japanese or do you guys come up with your own “new titles” for us?
3. I would love to know more about the process of deciding on these names from empyrean to reforged sets. I think it’s fantastic that you watched YouTube Waltzes for hours to decide on Contradance. What kind of research went into Arbatel and Azimuth? Where on Earth did you pull Estoqueur from? By the way, I still find it funny that Duelist and Estoqueur sets have no melee stats on them while the Warlock set does, but the names themselves sound great :)

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Thank you for your comments and questions, Merton9999!

I've commented a bit about the way we name equipment earlier in the thread, but here's the Reader's Digest version: has to fit in 9 katakana or fewer when rendered into Japanese, has to match with what the equipment does, and has to be a word we haven't yet used in equipment to date. The process was a lot easier when all we had were wax swords and cesti, but it has grown very complicated now that we have over 20,000 pieces of equipment, items, and attachments and are still tied to the same restrictions.

That said, we have had a numerous number of translators over the life of this project, and each lead has their own philosophy of how items should be named in a way that still evokes fantasy images that are worthy of the Final Fantasy brand. For me personally, artifact/relic/mythic/empyrean armor and weapons should have a much more special feel about them that makes the player feel "this is cool, and the name just fits with what a white mage/corsair/thief should be using." Interestingly enough, this restriction breeds a lot of freedom: when a piece can be equipped by 10 different jobs, the name naturally becomes more generic, but with the above types of items we can really dig deep into what a particular job would use or where. I'm glad to hear that you liked them! As for your questions:

1. Vitiation is a word, whereas vitivation is not. We argued this one back and forth for probably a week, and eventually decided that "vitivation" rolled a little bit better of the tongue, so that's what we ended up going with. What do you think? Does it sound better to you, or would you perfer we stay faithful to the word? There's no right or wrong answer, so feel free to offer your insight!

2. Most things in the game are named by the localize team and then put into Japanese from there. The armor, weapons, monsters, spells, abilities, monster abilities, beastmaster pet names, attachments, NPCs, actors (things like veridical confluxes), most titles, and content and system names (like Vagary or Unity) are all named by the localization team. Things that the Japanese devs name and we translate include quest names, usable/unusable items, key items (almost all the time), some titles, and ninja/samurai equipment. There's probably some stuff I'm missing, too, but that about covers it.

As for number 3, see my comment above! I will say that we try to nail down one aspect of each job to focus on. For the azimuth attire, for example, one aspect of geomancers in XI is their focus on circles and spheres. You can see it in a lot of the ability names (concentric pulse, etc.) and also in the way the geocolure and indicolure spells operate.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Would it be possible for the localization team to clue us in how the proper pronounciations of this extremely difficult names?

Xzomit? (Zomit? Exzomit? Kisomit?)
Hu'Xzoi (Hu exoy? Hu soy?)
Pso 'Xja (So Ja?)
Abdhaljs (Abdal-jis?)

Also what compelled you guys to name placed that have unusual consonant pairs. It almost seems like you slam your head on the keyboard or throw darts at a board with random letters. Sorry if that was insulting but these are the strangest name out of any MMORPG I have ever played, or any video game for that manner.

Also finally, I know this is more of a lore kind of thing and you guys may not be able to answer it but will we ever learn what the naming convention prefixes for Zilart things mean? I would hate for FFXI to end without these questions being answered either in game or through whoever's in charge of story boards. There must have been a reason behind these prefixes.

Ru'
Ra'
Hu'
Aw'
Au'
Ix'
Om'
Ul'
Eo'

etc...

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Good day, Ophannus!

As for your first question: here we go:

Xzomit: ZOH-mitt
Hu'Xzoi: who-ZOI
Pso 'Xja: SEW-ja
Abdhaljs: AB-dolls

As for our unusual naming tendencies, you'll notice that over time we have moved toward more grokkable area names, particularly in the Adoulin areas: less "Bostaunieux Oubliette" more "Kamihr Drifts." This reflects the tendencies of whoever was the lead translator at the time. I make it a point to visit fan sites and unofficial forums, where players tend to be more frank about their opinions, and I know that many of you refer to Bostaunieux Oubliette as "Boston Omelette." This tickles me to no end, but when I became lead, the devs and I agreed that things should take on a more direct approach--something that was memorable yet easy to remember. What do you think about the shift in direction?

As for the Zilart names--let me see if I can find someone more knowledgeable about the topic than I. Saito-san is currently swamped with event-related content, but I'll try to catch him over the weekend when he's more relaxed.

That's so awesome, I wish you guys had like a dev notes thing where you talk about how you came to different decisions and stuff. I find it interesting to read, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Dawezy

Another name question! (sorry! ^^;.)

Back when I first unlocked PUP and went through the Automaton naming process I was blown away by the variety of options - I went for Herzog because it reminded me of an old game on the SEGA Genesis that I used to ace as a kid, Herzog Zwei, but there was a mountain of other options I probably would picked.. so, that being said; Did the Devs just scribble down a army of random names and pull them from the hat and chose those for the in-game list? or were all these names related to something irl?

One name I could call out from the list is Calcobrena, that was from FFIV.

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Good day, Dawezy!

The puppetmaster stuff was a bit before me time, but there may be someone around who can remember how they chose the names. Almost certainly someone in localize named them, though, so I'll hit a couple people up.

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Originally Posted by Raydeus

Since you handled localization and know about the new character introduced in Rapsodies...

My question is :

In your opinion, will she be an even better waifu than Arciela?

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I'll like you to decide if she's a better waifu than Arciela, but since the patch releases in less than a day I'll tell you that she's a bit more stoic!

Hies!

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Originally Posted by Unelonborro

Xzomit: ZOH-mitt
Hu'Xzoi: who-ZOI
Pso 'Xja: SEW-ja
Abdhaljs: AB-dolls

As for our unusual naming tendencies, you'll notice that over time we have moved toward more grokkable area names, particularly in the Adoulin areas: less "Bostaunieux Oubliette" more "Kamihr Drifts." This reflects the tendencies of whoever was the lead translator at the time. I make it a point to visit fan sites and unofficial forums, where players tend to be more frank about their opinions, and I know that many of you refer to Bostaunieux Oubliette as "Boston Omelette." This tickles me to no end, but when I became lead, the devs and I agreed that things should take on a more direct approach--something that was memorable yet easy to remember. What do you think about the shift in direction?

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I, for one, don't mind it. However, being Finnish, I might automagically think of, and pronounce all these very differently. I may often prefer the old ways, but if I do think of these “in English”, I certainly understand the change. ^^


Many thanks again for all your replies here, as well as for all your (and the rest of the team's) efforts in general! (Past and present, as well as the crescent... I mean future!)

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Originally Posted by Unelonborro

1. Vitiation is a word, whereas vitivation is not. We argued this one back and forth for probably a week, and eventually decided that "vitivation" rolled a little bit better of the tongue, so that's what we ended up going with. What do you think? Does it sound better to you, or would you perfer we stay faithful to the word? There's no right or wrong answer, so feel free to offer your insight!

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Thanks for the answers, Unelonborro!

I appreciate the process of starting with something classic or official, then adding a unique and personal, but subtle, twist to it. Your approach was similar, and I think vitivation does in fact sound better. Good choice!

One other thing I find interesting is that when I first read vitivation, I immediately thought of vetiver, an essential oil I've used in the past. It's used to relieve stress and emotional trauma. Vitiation + Vetiver = Vitivation? Spoil (Enfeeble) + Relieve (Heal) = RDM? I like your "it sounded better" answer but this was fun to think about too :)

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Originally Posted by Unelonborro

For the azimuth attire, for example, one aspect of geomancers in XI is their focus on circles and spheres. You can see it in a lot of the ability names (concentric pulse, etc.) and also in the way the geocolure and indicolure spells operate.

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Yeah, azimuth made complete sense to me as being fitting for geomancers. I was just trying to imagine how fun it would be to pore over old math text books and websites looking for that perfect word that was both fitting and obscure!

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Originally Posted by Unelonborro

I know that many of you refer to Bostaunieux Oubliette as "Boston Omelette." This tickles me to no end...

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This has always been one of my favorites. It's up there with Temple of Ugly People.

Drakesbane in the JP is 雲蒸竜変 which according to Google Translate is "Strange Cloud". I'm sure this is an idiomatic phrase only understood by Japanese people in the context of their culture's mythos surrounding eastern dragons (e.g. Mistmelt/Cloud Evoker). I couldn't find anything on the interwebs about it but I was wondering if you could provide a brief description of what 雲蒸竜変 really eludes to. I know it was localized to "Drakesbane" before your time. I'm presuming that dragons require clouds to fly, and 雲蒸竜変 related to disrupting clouds somehow which I suppose would result in a dragon 'falling'. And an attack which destroys the clouds necessary for a dragon to fly, would be a bane to a dragon? I'm just using deductive logic here based on my extremely limited japanese, but was just curious!

Also I was wondering why Ryuken (Dragon Sword) DRG's SP1 was localized to Spirit Surge in FFXI when in previous FF games it was simply called Lancet/Lancer/Dragon Sword. Was Dragon Sword/Lancet not 'cool' or dramatic enough for an SP name? I also remember getting hyped about DRG's SP2 before it was released, back before you guys actually named it "Fly High", and I remember being so disappointed at its name. 1) because 'Fly High" sounds so mundane, and 2) I was halfway hoping you guys would name it "Highwind" after Highwind being a very prominent term relating to DRGs throughout the FF series (and also the name of DRG's ultimate Jump attack in several other FF games). Seeing as Manafont, Benediction, and Summoner's Astral Flow abilities are all names of ultimate skills those jobs use in other games, Highwind would have been a better name than "Fly High", which I think is actually almost seems like a synonym for High Wind as both terms allude to altitude/flying, but I think Fly High as not having as much fan service as Highwind, in the same regard as Hellfire, Gaia's Wrath, Tsunami, Dark Messenger being renamed Inferno, Earthen Fury, Tidal Wave and Ruinous Omen. Even if the latter are more 'accurate' translations.

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I know that many of you refer to Bostaunieux Oubliette as "Boston Omelette." This tickles me to no end...

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While true, the newer zones are easier to pronounce, the former stylized naming conventions were probably more 'grown-up' and actually preserved more accurate meaning. A dungeon is very generic, but an Oubliette is a very particular kind of french-style dungeon, and Sand'Oria is very much based on medieval France. Calling it simply a dungeon wouldn't confer the same 'feel' as calling it an Oubliette, though 90% of players don't care about that sort of deeper connection to lore and maintaining meaning, but moving forward it probably is a better choice to use terms like "Drifts" or "Fields" rather than archaic terms.

Also one more thing. I'm extremely proud of the FFXI localization team for sticking with FF style naming conventions of items. I groan when I play any other RPG series and items are named like "Staff of Fiery Striking" or "Sword of Frozen Spite" or "Helmet of Magick'd Fortitude" I hate RPGs that use "[Blank] of [Blankity] [Blank]" for items, it's so cheesy and feels too D&Dish. Whereas FF games typically name items after a noun or a single adjective Cleric's Robe, Bloodsword, Masamune, Noble's Tunic, etc... It's less pretentious and a lot less annoying, also it's more fun reading about the lore behind some of these items and their terms (i.e. Estoqueuer) rather than boring names in other games e.g. Shield of Divine Light---BORING.

Good day, Ophannus!

Let me get to your questions one by one.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Drakesbane in the JP is 雲蒸竜変 which according to Google Translate is "Strange Cloud". I'm sure this is an idiomatic phrase only understood by Japanese people in the context of their culture's mythos surrounding eastern dragons (e.g. Mistmelt/Cloud Evoker). I couldn't find anything on the interwebs about it but I was wondering if you could provide a brief description of what 雲蒸竜変 really eludes to. I know it was localized to "Drakesbane" before your time. I'm presuming that dragons require clouds to fly, and 雲蒸竜変 related to disrupting clouds somehow which I suppose would result in a dragon 'falling'. And an attack which destroys the clouds necessary for a dragon to fly, would be a bane to a dragon? I'm just using deductive logic here based on my extremely limited japanese, but was just curious!

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雲蒸竜変, pronounced "Unjo-ryohen" (for you kanji fiends out there, the third character is actually prounced "ryo" in this instance, not "ryu"), is what's called in Japanese a "yoji-jukugo," a four kanji compound phrase that plays a role very similar to what we would term an "idiom." A well known example of a yoji jukugo is 一石二鳥 (isseki-nicho), which in English is "Kill two birds with one stone." Many of these translate into phrases rather than single words. When we coming up with a skill or ability name, anything longer than about two words is out unless there's a really good reason (I know there are a couple with three, but they usually contain filler words like "of" (Knights of Round, Chant du Cygne, etc.))

Now, let's talk about the meaning of "Unjo-ryohen." I'm creative licensing this a little bit, but it essentially means "a great leader or hero will appear in times of need to save the land." The third character, 竜, (usually pronounced "ryu") refers to a dragon. Let's take the two of these aspects together: In western lore, our fantasy heroes often do things like saving kingdoms, rescuing princesses, and--you guessed it--slaying dragons. With a term like "drakesbane," you get a triple whammy: you keep the dragon present in the original Japanese, you call forth an image of of heroism, and you have a short, pithy word that sounds like an ability name.

As you mentioned, it was named before my time, but I have a feeling my guess is pretty spot-on.

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Also I was wondering why Ryuken (Dragon Sword) DRG's SP1 was localized to Spirit Surge in FFXI when in previous FF games it was simply called Lancet/Lancer/Dragon Sword. Was Dragon Sword/Lancet not 'cool' or dramatic enough for an SP name? I also remember getting hyped about DRG's SP2 before it was released, back before you guys actually named it "Fly High", and I remember being so disappointed at its name. 1) because 'Fly High" sounds so mundane, and 2) I was halfway hoping you guys would name it "Highwind" after Highwind being a very prominent term relating to DRGs throughout the FF series (and also the name of DRG's ultimate Jump attack in several other FF games). Seeing as Manafont, Benediction, and Summoner's Astral Flow abilities are all names of ultimate skills those jobs use in other games, Highwind would have been a better name than "Fly High", which I think is actually almost seems like a synonym for High Wind as both terms allude to altitude/flying, but I think Fly High as not having as much fan service as Highwind, in the same regard as Hellfire, Gaia's Wrath, Tsunami, Dark Messenger being renamed Inferno, Earthen Fury, Tidal Wave and Ruinous Omen. Even if the latter are more 'accurate' translations.

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I find it very interesting that you bring up Highwind here, because it was originally on the short list of ideas that we thought up during the naming process but ultimately discarded it. It's a term that we have to be very careful about using, because Highwind has been a bit over the map historically: sometimes it refers to dragoons, sometimes to airships, sometimes to Cid. (of course, sometimes Cid is ALSO dragoon-like, but that's neither here nor there)

I believe the most recent main title we've used Highwind in was the ios/android Final Fantasy Dimensions (good game--if you're interested in retro Final Fantasy I would give it a go), and there it was an airship.

So that's the background behind "Highwind" as a term. That in and of itself wouldn't be a reason to cross the name off the list, but there's one other consideration--at the time of naming, we were right in the middle of the Adoulin questline involving Midras, and Cid pops up as a guest figure. This gave me pause, because bringing Cid back into the picture at this juncture opens up the possibility that the planner in charge of the quest decides to trot out the name. As such, it was decided to discard the name in favor of Fly High.

What do you think? Would you have kept it as Highwind, or would you have looked for something else? If something else, what direction would you liked to have seen it go in?

As an aside, most of those continuing Adoulin subquests will be getting closure in the next few months, so you'll be able to find out exactly what happens to Roskin, Nashu, the Blackthorn Coven, and a bunch of other Adoulin characters.

Awesome, very cool indeed! I guess I figured the words Fly High were already so near in meaning to a more parsimonious and no-brainer name like Highwind which would have been gratuitous fan service, but I do see your logic. I just wondered if it even came up or if it flew over your heads (no pun intended of course :P)
A minor correction, I think in Dimensions, it was Highwind Tower during the Dragoon Chapter.

I asked a Japanese friend of mine to translate the idiom for me and his definition was similar to yours:
"From turmoil, a hero arises to save his people, like a dragon ascending from dark clouds towards the sky/heaven."

I also hope the devs make reference to the "Drake Tamers" we heard about back from Achtelle in WoTG, an Adoulinian DRG NPC who makes mention that Adoulin is home to Wyverns....which we've seen 0 of either Tamers or Drakes in the entire expansions :)
I think they mentioned the Mummur's Coalition being Drakestamers but I don't think it's ever been shown/mentioned at all, and I heard they were working on a quest...keeping my fingers crossed for this update.

First, I've heard a rumor a very long time ago that the /check function has or had a phrase that could be considered rude in Japanese. NA players can spam /check (Player examines you.) quite a bit. Is this or was this ever the case? If it is the case, could this be fixed?

Second, the autotranslate function in this game is a work of art even when not talking to people who don't share your language. When I've played FFXI heavily and switch to other text based communication, I can spam the tab key quite a bit (to be honest, I'm sad the forums themselves don't support this feature... we don't even have open and closing brackets as emoticons!).

I remember "back in the day" that there were guides on how to talk to JP players with romanjii phrases, such as FFXIclopedia's Japanese-English Bard Song List (mostly written in 2007), or their Auto-Translator: In-Depth guide explaining what the auto-translate phrases exactly mean. Additionally NA player's vocabulary has always been affected by JP players, everyone should know what D2 means.

However, it can be frustrating when JP players don't use Auto-Translate at all. Whereas I don't blame the players, it is still a source of annoyance. You can only type in romanjii if you're on the NA client. There is no copy-paste function to even throw in phases into a poor quality online machine translator. If only this game had official support for fan made add-ons, or allowed the usage of the infamous third-party client I don't even need to name, this could be remedied by the fans. I've read about fan based auto-translators that detect Japanese text and compare it to an FFXI specific dictionary. It isn't perfect, but it would certainly help bridge the gap between the two communities FFXI shares.

Good day, Economizer,

Sorry for not getting back to you about this earlier. I'm unable to answer all your questions, but I can definitely hit back on this one:

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Originally Posted by Economizer

First, I've heard a rumor a very long time ago that the /check function has or had a phrase that could be considered rude in Japanese. NA players can spam /check (Player examines you.) quite a bit. Is this or was this ever the case? If it is the case, could this be fixed?

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I'm in no position to judge what the JP player base as a whole feels, but the Japanese version of this text is じっと見つめる, which is much more aggressive sounding in JP than it is in EN. Let's take a step into the wayback machine.

I'm a bit of an MMO player, having gotten my start in Diku MUDs back in the dark days of 19XX when I was in high school. Eventually what we would consider the first MMOs came out, starting with Meridian 59 back in 1996. UO was released a bit later, and eventually we ended up with the genre-defining giant that was the original Everquest. Whereas today the influence of WoW is undeniable, back then the same was true of Everquest, which anyone familiar with the genre knows is a diku-style mmo. Because of this, many things that would come to be done via a graphical user interface in later years were still done via text commands: /check is one such thing.

Now, keep in mind that more western players were familiar with MMOs when XI came out in EN than JP players were when XI came out in JP. We were already used to working with text commands that echoed things to the recipient, such as /check. However, Everquest did not have a Japanese version, so there was no preconceived notion for what a "/check" command would return in Japanese (there already was in EN). The JP that was eventually chosen (literally, "[Player] stares at you") can be read more aggressively in Japanese, especially if /check is done multiple times in quick succession. The EN reads much softer because, again--it's what an existing EN-speaking MMO player would have expected. (I can't speak to the FR and DE sides of things.)

I'm oversimplifying things slightly, but that's a brief history behind /check in both languages! Why the JP didn't go with the much more neutral verb 調べる like they did in the help text for /check is a mystery for the ages.

This is my favourite thread. Thanks so much for everything Unelonborro.

You talked about making place names more grokkable... but where do they come from? Do you just put some syllables together that sound good? As far as I can tell Morimar isn't a word for example. How do you come up with those names? I think they sound very authentic - like real names of real places.

I am a gamemaster for a tabletop RPG, in a homebrew world and I find coming up with good place names is hard. What's your process?

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Originally Posted by Olor

This is my favourite thread. Thanks so much for everything Unelonborro.

You talked about making place names more grokkable... but where do they come from? Do you just put some syllables together that sound good? As far as I can tell Morimar isn't a word for example. How do you come up with those names? I think they sound very authentic - like real names of real places.

I am a gamemaster for a tabletop RPG, in a homebrew world and I find coming up with good place names is hard. What's your process?

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It really depends a lot on the context. We have a list of stock NPC names that we draw from whenever we have characters who are relatively unimportant in terms of lore--for example, Affi and Dremi in the Escha areas were drawn from our pool. Every so often we run out and have to think of some more.

Most Elvaan, you have noticed, have French-sounding names. These names were always thought up by the French team, so when the FR and DE versions were canceled I had the FR team come up with 200 male and female Elvaan names before they got reassigned to different projects.

Obviously, other names need to have specific directions based on how they are being used. For example, over in Vagary one of the bosses is Perfidien. We wanted to make a name that sounds like "Melvien" but is more sinister, so I asked a former XI French translator who now works on XIV to come up with an evil-sounding French name, and that's what we ended up going with.

Balamor is another recent example. When we were coming up with names for important figures in Adoulin, we were given concept art, background stories, roles that they would play, and dev names. Balamor's dev name was "Death Jester," and he looks a bit like a clown, so we decided to come up with something cool-sounding that went along those lines. "Balatro" is a Roman word for someone who is a professional buffoon or jester, and those of higher economic classes often hired them to perform at their feasts and banquets. "Mors" is, of course, the latin word/root for "death." Combine those two and you end up with Balamor!

Sometimes we just want something that has a certain "ring" to it. For example, we have the Celennia Memorial Library over in Adoulin. Celennia, whose full name is Celennia Wexworth, was actually originally intended to have a bit more of a role in the Seekers of Adoulin story, but we ended up not finding the proper timing to fit her in. The event team wanted someone who sounded pure and heavenly, so we took our cue from the word "celestial" and massaged it into a very feminine sounding name. As an aside, the reason we ended up at "Celennia Memorial Library" instead of "Wexworth Memorial Library" is because Celennia is easier to pronounce in JP.