Can We Get A Few Non-job Specific Item Level 119 Weapons Added To The Game?

Unless it was for the ammo slot since you wouldn't be using oils 100% of the time, but then you'd have to use a macro to switch it out anytime you wanted to heal your auto.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

More axes without part of their stat budget spent on pet stats, please.

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CRY. No just put more bloody stats on them. Pet users shouldn't have to have lower stats so part of their intrinsic damage gets buffed. It's not like they can't put more stats on them - I have gear with TWO pages after the main page, of stats.

It's this outmoded idea that if there are pet stats the master should suffer. It's stupid. WAR gets 100% of the stats on it's gear, why should BST's master damage be gimped because our pet also gets a buff?

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Originally Posted by Olor

CRY. No just put more bloody stats on them. Pet users shouldn't have to have lower stats so part of their intrinsic damage gets buffed. It's not like they can't put more stats on them - I have gear with TWO pages after the main page, of stats.

It's this outmoded idea that if there are pet stats the master should suffer. It's stupid. WAR gets 100% of the stats on it's gear, why should BST's master damage be gimped because our pet also gets a buff?

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I think Camiie meant what you just said basically. I believe by 'budget' Camiie was referring to the amount of stats SE puts on a piece for it's level before it's thought to be overpowered. By removing the pet buffs from the equation it would allow for a stronger Axe, then once you place the pet stats on it, it could still be balanced all the same. This is my take at least.

Another easy possibility, which I would also agree with, is the idea of having Axes without any pet stats but instead higher DMG & such as a result. The main reason this seems to be a good idea is if they add Axes for WAR. What's the point in a WAR having +2% Haste & 5% PDT on their pet they don't even have? Instead I'm sure they'd rather some STR or some Double Attack.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

I'm sure they'd rather some STR or some Double Attack.

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Yes, I'd also like some STR and Double attack and I shouldn't have to choose between that and utterly gimping my pet

Especially since the only items with significant boosts for pets ATM are weapons. Weapons that also buff pets should have equal amount of master stats to other weapons PLUS the pet buffs.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

More axes without part of their stat budget spent on pet stats, please.

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Or better yet, more axes with their pet stats not counted in said stat budget in the first place, since the master shouldn't have to take a reduction in stats to improve its pet, which already does not keep pace with the master's rate of growth.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

Unless it was for the ammo slot since you wouldn't be using oils 100% of the time, but then you'd have to use a macro to switch it out anytime you wanted to heal your auto.

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It doesn't work that way systemically. you can't have a throwing weapon and ranged weapon equipped at the same time. The animator is a ranged weapon. It can only have ammunition in the ammo slot, and that ammunition is automaton oils. That's how it's implemented. Throwing weapons will unequip the animator. This is aside the fact that no PUP has any real need or purpose for any kind of throwing weapon, even if it had good DMG. The only value would be for pulling, and you can use the automaton for that.

I don't really understand this discussion in reference to PUP specifically... It's like people want it just because it's there. it's useless and always will be useless, so why not just ignore it? They would get more out of adding F rank great katana skill to... SCH, or something... PUP doesn't need any PUP specific throwing weapons. They don't need the skill either. Nobody cares about it other than the people posting about it in this thread. I'm pretty sure 100% of all PUPs would rather SE do something more worthwhile with their time, like job adjustments that actually make the job competitive.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Why would you hope for them to add an item nobody will ever use, just for the sake of having said item in existence? Personally, I'd rather them spend their development time on.... anything else. Even, to tie into the topic, other weapons for secondary weapon users that would actually serve a purpose, like a good polearm for SAM or a greataxe for WAR or whatever. But a throwing weapon for PUP? There couldn't be a greater insult to the job, which could use just about anything else in the universe than a throwing weapon that is PUP only or explicitly has PUP on it.

I'm not intending to be rude here or anything, but I would hope that we get actual useful items out of this, rather than something nobody could possibly need or want.

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It's a spite thing, I felt attacked, so I attacked back. And from the sounds of it you are under the mistaken impression that I want pup to get a new weapon, I do not, I want weapons with multiple classes on them, how this discussion ever got turned into a discussion about pup is beyond me, so what if SE adds a throwing weapon and it has a tag for each job that can use throwing weapons wtf does it really matter if there's a pup tag on it?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Or better yet, more axes with their pet stats not counted in said stat budget in the first place, since the master shouldn't have to take a reduction in stats to improve its pet, which already does not keep pace with the master's rate of growth.

It doesn't work that way systemically. you can't have a throwing weapon and ranged weapon equipped at the same time. The animator is a ranged weapon. It can only have ammunition in the ammo slot, and that ammunition is automaton oils. That's how it's implemented. Throwing weapons will unequip the animator. This is aside the fact that no PUP has any real need or purpose for any kind of throwing weapon, even if it had good DMG. The only value would be for pulling, and you can use the automaton for that.

I don't really understand this discussion in reference to PUP specifically... It's like people want it just because it's there. it's useless and always will be useless, so why not just ignore it? They would get more out of adding F rank great katana skill to... SCH, or something... PUP doesn't need any PUP specific throwing weapons. They don't need the skill either. Nobody cares about it other than the people posting about it in this thread. I'm pretty sure 100% of all PUPs would rather SE do something more worthwhile with their time, like job adjustments that actually make the job competitive.

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And this thread isnt about XXX job specific anything, the thread is about moving away from XXX job specific everything and back to the normal realm of ffxi where multiple jobs could use the same weapon

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Originally Posted by Olor

Yes, I'd also like some STR and Double attack and I shouldn't have to choose between that and utterly gimping my pet

Especially since the only items with significant boosts for pets ATM are weapons. Weapons that also buff pets should have equal amount of master stats to other weapons PLUS the pet buffs.

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I added axes with both pet stats and player stats to the OP

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Originally Posted by predatory

I added axes with both pet stats and player stats to the OP

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Thanks! I know I am a big wailer sometimes but for serious pet jobs get boned so much! And not in that good kind of way.

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It's a spite thing, I felt attacked, so I attacked back.

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Uhm, I wasn't attacking you, nor did it seem to me like other people were, so I'm not sure why you felt this way, but i apologize regardless.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Uhm, I wasn't attacking you, nor did it seem to me like other people were, so I'm not sure why you felt this way, but i apologize regardless.

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not you the other guy

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Originally Posted by Olor

Yes, I'd also like some STR and Double attack and I shouldn't have to choose between that and utterly gimping my pet

Especially since the only items with significant boosts for pets ATM are weapons. Weapons that also buff pets should have equal amount of master stats to other weapons PLUS the pet buffs.

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Demonjustin had it right. I don't want to see anything taken from BST, I'd simply like to see more axes with all stats devoted to the player. I'm purely for more options, not less.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

Demonjustin had it right. I don't want to see anything taken from BST, I'd simply like to see more axes with all stats devoted to the player. I'm purely for more options, not less.

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What we're trying to say is that no stats should have to be subtracted from the player to get stats for the pet- because any stat gains for the player just widen the gap between master and pet who already doesn't keep pace with the rate at which players gain power.

So: I'd like to see more axes with all stats devoted to the player plus additional pet stats on top of that. Because even then pet jobs will probably barely compete. I'm all for more options too, what I'm telling you is that neither BST should have to give up pet stats nor should you have to give up regular stats.

Your message that there is a "stat budget" and that they have to make a weapon crappier to make it improve the pet is flawed, I find that the stats they put on stuff are almost totally arbitrary even in spite of item levels.

What they should have done instead of introducing specific special items that give pets levels or levels worth of stats, is simply make pets stats increase based on your item level, so you don't have to bend over backwards for your pet, which is an extension of yourself, to be functional.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What we're trying to say is that no stats should have to be subtracted from the player to get stats for the pet- because any stat gains for the player just widen the gap between master and pet who already doesn't keep pace with the rate at which players gain power.

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Exactly. The axe should be same power for players whether or not there are pet stats on it. WAR shouldn't get extra stats just cause they don't have a crummy pet to buff. That's what we are trying to say. Pet stats should not be counted against players. SO as a WAR it shouldn't matter whether there are also pet stats on an item - because if there wasn't the item would give same bonus to player. That's the only fair way. Having axes get extra stats if they don't buff pets just makes pet jobs even crappier than they already are.

Jobs that can use weapons and the weapon skill ranks of jobs has been a real mess for a long time. In this thread people already mentioned PUP, which gets a very high throwing skill even though the job is useless if you unequip your animator to equip a throwing weapon.
Paladin and staff is another good example. Paladin get the highest staff skill rating, even though their prime requisite is the use of shields - which you can't use with staves. And conversely, PLD with their godly staff skill rating, can not equip RME staves or even Magian staves.
Scholar, which I always viewed as the true "Wizard" job, obsessed with books, a true bibliophile Gandalf lore-master, gets a very weak staff skill rating even though a book-reading wizard is never seen without his/her power staff. I always felt weapon skill ranks should be related to the amount of time a job spends with that weapon, as they have an affinity for it. So Gandalf with his books and staves, scholar would get the highest staff ranking, PLD with his shields and front line combat and zero time spend in dusty rooms with books (unlike wizards) PLD would get a super weak staff skill rating. And PUP who never equip throwing weapons because of the animator, would get super-low ranking in throwing, to reflect their lack of time spent and affinity with this weapon.
When Scholar was released it was marketed as a 'battlefield mage' and so back in 2008 I was really hoping SCH would get a really high staff skill rank. But no, SCH staff skill is way lower than PLD, a job that can't equip a staff without losing the job's main power - the shield, and a job that can't even equip magian staves or RME staves at all. Obviously there is some logic gap there - if PLD has the highest staff skill, that job should be able to equip all staves, and yet can hardly equip any of them. Some sort of spring-cleaning on the whole job/skill/equipable morass is overdue.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Some sort of spring-cleaning on the whole job/skill/equipable morass is overdue.

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I'd support this. Like RDM wearing staves all the time with no staff skill. Irritating. BLU with so few clubs to choose from. Irritating. RDM starting with a dagger - even having access to relic dagger, then BAM, almost no RDM daggers ever again. BLM with dagger skill, but no daggers to equip. BST with no dual wield, crappy access to shields and a horrific shield rating (please just give us dual wield natively for the love of god) and no access to scythes worth wearing (nevermind scythe is sort of broken with nothing but crap WS) ... I could go on.

Hello!

While not directly related to weapons that multiple jobs can utilize, I wanted to bring up some plans for katanas.

Up until now the development team has been designing wildskeeper reive rewards based off the image of each of the Naakuals and as a result there is currently no katana reward. While the plans are not to have every type of weapon rewarded for every type of content, we understand that there are not a lot of choices when it comes to katanas recently and we are planning to add more.

It will be a bit before we implement them, but the team is working on adding them as either wildskeeper reive rewards or through another avenue after the July version update.

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Originally Posted by Camate

It will be a bit before we implement them, but the team is working on adding them as either wildskeeper reive rewards or through another avenue after the July version update.

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Since the last WKRs were added, I assumed we'd see a gun, katana, and Smn staff from the 7th WKR. Unless the 7th is being designed as something other than a typical WKR. ;o

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Originally Posted by Malithar

Since the last WKRs were added, I assumed we'd see a gun, katana, and Smn staff from the 7th WKR. Unless the 7th is being designed as something other than a typical WKR. ;o

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If you'd done your recent Adoulin missions, you'd know there won't be a seventh WKR. (Well, if you fought SPOILER it'd be in a regular battlefield, maybe, but--)

I dunno, there was nothing specific in those missions that said he wouldn't be a WKR.

He was "shown the light" by the king, he's still alive, though no one knows where he's at, he was given a mission by the king, and he was "different" than the other Naakuals. That's all the info that was supplied by those missions.

Counter to that, Matsui said a while back that we will have 7 WKRs, as well as the evidence from the Naakual KI's "one of seven" and the seven treasures turn ins with RoE. It might not be a typical WKR, but I have little doubt that there won't be one at all.

I'd assume the 7th would be a snake due to the map/art we had originally. I stick by that idea, the light dragon(it's in the update trailer, not much a spoiler to mention it...) I'd assume isn't one of the 7 we were told about. If I'm wrong then so be it but it always made more sense to me that we'd see a Dark Naakual rather than Light for the 7th due to that fact and since it showed a purple snake at the top, Ra'Kaznar seems purple & dark based, and that's more or less the design of all other Naakuals, I'd say my bet's a safe one.

You should really do the latest batch of missions. Not sure if you're into the story, but its definitely some of the best story telling since CoP IMO. The bit about not knowing if the white wyrm was a Naakual or not makes me think you haven't gotten to do them yet.

Good to see someone bringing up that Corsairs are still waiting on an iLevel 119 scimitar/cutlass/sword.

SE gave us the ability to use requiescat and our best and only viable options for a sword weapon right now is an Eminent Scimitar.

Please address this, corsair has an absurd number of dagger options compared to swords.

Jobs having competence with more than one weapon (B or C rank) seems to be completely dying off due to power creep, narrow weapon options, and iLevel mechanics which is worrysome and makes the game less interesting if it continues to be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

You should really do the latest batch of missions. Not sure if you're into the story, but its definitely some of the best story telling since CoP IMO. The bit about not knowing if the white wyrm was a Naakual or not makes me think you haven't gotten to do them yet.

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I haven't gotten to yet but I was more or less just givin my thoughts on what I've thought would be happening with Naakuals overall since the beginning, and since Ra'Kaznar fit so well with the idea of a snake WK in a lot of sense I figured it'd be done that way still. I figured Outer Ra'Kaznar is the cave like area, similar to the Gates areas, while a later introduced Inner Ra'Kaznar would be the area with the Naakual and such. If I'm wrong then eh, I find out via story or when the 7th is released, but I think it'd fit the way I'm thinking of it.

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Originally Posted by Sapphires

Jobs having competence with more than one weapon (B or C rank) seems to be completely dying off due to power creep, narrow weapon options, and iLevel mechanics which is worrysome and makes the game less interesting if it continues to be ignored.

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They need to remember that this isn't XIV where one's weapon type defines one's job.

While I can understand there are not plans to not have every single weapon type in each type of content. I think it's a bit ridiculous not to at least cover all jobs with at least 1 Wildskeeper Reive/Delve Boss weapon. I just think that is really odd and I've been personally looking forward to seeing a new unique skinned katana. Also, I was completely expecting Gessho of all fights to drop a katana.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

They need to remember that this isn't XIV where one's weapon type defines one's job.

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Except for some jobs it already did, even from the beginning. Ninjas should never be seen holding anything other than a katana, and while SAM can use different weapons, they are the only job that can use great katanas. BRD is the only job that can use instruments, GEO is the only job that can equip bells (not explicitly weapons but they go in a weapon slot), etc. There were only ever a few cases when even the most versatile weapon users would equip things other than their main weapon type- Usually to proc a weakness in voidwatch, or to exploit a strong slash/pierce/blunt resistance, but that didn't happen very often- The most well known example is SAMs using polearms on colibri for their piercing weakness.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Except for some jobs it already did, even from the beginning. Ninjas should never be seen holding anything other than a katana, and while SAM can use different weapons, they are the only job that can use great katanas.

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Actually NINs can use some GKs.

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BRD is the only job that can use instruments, GEO is the only job that can equip bells (not explicitly weapons but they go in a weapon slot), etc. There were only ever a few cases when even the most versatile weapon users would equip things other than their main weapon type- Usually to proc a weakness in voidwatch, or to exploit a strong slash/pierce/blunt resistance, but that didn't happen very often- The most well known example is SAMs using polearms on colibri for their piercing weakness.

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There's exceptions to everything. What's your point?

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Actually NINs can use some GKs.

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But would they ever? no.

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There's exceptions to everything. What's your point?

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the point is you said- "this isnt xiv where a weapn defines your job."

It doesn't in the literal sense in XI, but it does in practice because the vast majority of the time, even loooooong before item levels, loong before level 99, you would still use your main weapon type the vast majority of the time. Unless content arbitrarily forces you to use a bunch of weapons (e.g. voidwatch), people don't. You're dissing XIV and glorifying XI based on something that isn't exactly accurate.