red ninja needs buffs, badly.

it is a bit much to say to the general playerbase you need to spam shurikens or suck

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Originally Posted by Rambus

it is a bit much to say to the general playerbase you need to spam shurikens or suck

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Ok, but for low levels, it's true.

Let's be honest with ourselves here...NIN was NEVER meant to be a tank from SE design. It was meant to be a DD played as a DD. Yes to play it "Correctly" it requires a good deal of money loss in order to keep tools and such in supply. However, regardless of that fact, it is still true that NIN was meant for DD'ing, NOT tanking. It was the player base that utilized it as such. Yes it's possible to tank I've done it well, but again it's because of what had been touched on before, the use of magic tools and a THF and everyone in the party working together.

I'm not sure arguing that NIN is meant to be a DD not a tank matters in an environment where the best DD is the tank.

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

I'm not sure arguing that NIN is meant to be a DD not a tank matters in an environment where the best DD is the tank.

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pretty much this, I never understood people saying "we need a tank for our exp pt" when it ment they wanted a PLD or NIN. I am speaking 2008 ish and up. people still damanded for PLD and such ( silly asura server)

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

why cant one link a facepalm.jpg...

1. wajaom birds are typically synced 5-6 levels before a nin actually has blade: jin.
2. wind ws on wind monster? i mean, really?

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What..... the fuck?!?!?!?

I think its worth noting now that there is 55-60 lesser camps in both bhaflau thickets and wajaom woodlands, but ya the jin ws comment is out there.

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?

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It's best not to question such nonsense, and just pretend it didn't happen.

Clearly their complaint is the fact Ninja is unable to perform REAL SOVIET DAMAGE.

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

ninja can tank birds fine.. i leveled my ninja up in the colibri camps in east ronfaure.. (no power level)

just use the slow / para / blind tools

they really do help in keeping shadows up. and your healer can concentrate on keeping people healed.

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He didn't say anything about east r s. I would agree though at east r s I would prefer nin tank over pld cause they barely take any damage oit there. At 55+ is where things get messy. Melee DD don't know how to play. They put nin in parties with 4 crazy high dps DD and exspect a nin to hold hate when they ws as soon as the fight starts. Everyone wants to tp burn @ 55 and it just doesn't work with nin tank without thf properly. Dd eat magic p creating downtime or some dies. It works with pld but even they loose hate when you have rng ws for 1k.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

He didn't say anything about east r s. I would agree though at east r s I would prefer nin tank over pld cause they barely take any damage oit there. At 55+ is where things get messy. Melee DD don't know how to play. They put nin in parties with 4 crazy high dps DD and exspect a nin to hold hate when they ws as soon as the fight starts. Everyone wants to tp burn @ 55 and it just doesn't work with nin tank without thf properly. Dd eat magic p creating downtime or some dies. It works with pld but even they loose hate when you have rng ws for 1k.

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It works even better wiht just 4 dds, and a brd instead of a "tank".

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Originally Posted by svengalis

He didn't say anything about east r s. I would agree though at east r s I would prefer nin tank over pld cause they barely take any damage oit there. At 55+ is where things get messy. Melee DD don't know how to play. They put nin in parties with 4 crazy high dps DD and exspect a nin to hold hate when they ws as soon as the fight starts. Everyone wants to tp burn @ 55 and it just doesn't work with nin tank without thf properly. Dd eat magic p creating downtime or some dies. It works with pld but even they loose hate when you have rng ws for 1k.

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If you need a tank to actually hold hate in EXP then odds are the party sucks. I liked THF in EXP parties but TAs being necessities for the party to function is fail. A THF can take large chunks out of the mob, take a few hits on blink and the other DD should turn it or kill it before the DD becomes a huge sponge.

In a typical oldschool NIN DD DD DD Healer Puller party, if 4 people cannot kill Colibri then you have a problem. Either the DD need to sub defensively and share the pain or you need to find a better camp cause you're obviously too low for the area.

This isn't to say that DD can't be mismatched - the really bad with really good but needing a tank on birds is bunk. A PLD cannot keep hate off a good DD nevermind a NIN so the whole concept of "tank" means you either hold back and slow kills to make the NIN/PLD feel good or you kill fast and avoid the tons of damage that comes with having Mr. Colibri stay alive too long.

#1 problem with oldschool EXP was that people wanted to camp in areas when mobs were IT+ instead of waiting the 1-2 levels for mobs to drop to high VT where they are far more reasonable to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I think its worth noting now that there is 55-60 lesser camps in both bhaflau thickets and wajaom woodlands, but ya the jin ws comment is out there.

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?

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Terrible Gauntlet reference.

Methods for low level ninjas to keep hate hasnt changed since 2004/5.
Macro enmity for provoke, full time good DD gear other then that, use good food, use spells when appropriate, don't get hit, and just do your best to win the parse. It's not hard, it never was.

And what the h.....
Tearvalynn/andylynn/whatever, you have sunk to a new level of downsyndrombaby with your blade jin is wind damage comments, lol.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Methods for low level ninjas to keep hate hasnt changed since 2004/5.
Macro enmity for provoke, full time good DD gear other then that, use good food, use spells when appropriate, don't get hit, and just do your best to win the parse. It's not hard, it never was.

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Actually the appropriate method is to not sub war, use shurkens up to 40, then switch to ele wheel /rdm, and stop pretending to be a tank, and go all out dding, since that results in you tanking anyway.

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Originally Posted by rog

Actually the appropriate method is to not sub war, use shurkens up to 40, then switch to ele wheel /rdm, and stop pretending to be a tank, and go all out dding, since that results in you tanking anyway.

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So we said the exact same things, except you want to use different subs.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

So we said the exact same things, except you want to use different subs.

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No. Not getting hit and having enmity gear is not part of my ninja. Going out of your way to get enmity is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by rog

No. Not getting hit and having enmity gear is not part of my ninja. Going out of your way to get enmity is just stupid.

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Tanking is what you want to do, going out of your way to gain enmity is the best way to accomplish this? Whether it's from having enmity gear to macro on for half a second or doing good damage, or not losing lots of enmity by getting hit a lot.

Maybe you're just trying to argue something different from me, I'm saying ninja is suppose to tank, and it's easy to do, and going out of your way to gain as much enmity as possible is a good thing.

Tanking is not the aim though. DDing is. Fortunately low level nin does so much more damage than everyone else, that you'll be tanking no matter what.

And no, trying to get more enmity is NOT good. You will hold hate no matter what, assuming you don't suck, so trying to get more will just lower your damage output, for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

red ninja needs buffs, badly.

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Was red Ninja about to die?

Or did red Ninja shoot the food?

Remmber, don't shoot food!

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Originally Posted by rog

It works even better wiht just 4 dds, and a brd instead of a "tank".

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Not everyone can get the perfect party setup. I am sure we all want to play with brd or cor when in bird parties but those were some of the first jobs nabbed as soon as they put their flags up.

If you're low level and focusing on evasion gear, that's part of your problem with tanking right there.

Ninja is a tough job to tank on, especially when you have DDs that spit out a WS after the first 5 swings of your mobs HP, its best to just do what you can for hate, Voke, Blade: To/Chi/Jin and hope for the best, I gave up on tanking on NIN on the lower levels, and by 66-75 I was tanking just fine cause Jin does wonders for you.

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Originally Posted by Corwin

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I think its worth noting now that there is 55-60 lesser camps in both bhaflau thickets and wajaom woodlands, but ya the jin ws comment is out there.

I been wondering though, what is a red ninja?

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Terrible Gauntlet reference.

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I do not understand

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I do not understand

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The game is called gauntlet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauntlet_(arcade_game)). The line is "Red warrior needs food badly" hence the earlier reference to shooting the food. Mostly it's just a dumb title.

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Originally Posted by CumDumpster

I thought it was a cute title, gave reference to a very fun game.

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Oh wow, Tear/Andy/CumD, this is PRE-mithra picture! Very chic!

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

The game is called gauntlet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauntlet_(arcade_game)). The line is "Red warrior needs food badly" hence the earlier reference to shooting the food. Mostly it's just a dumb title.

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Gauntlet also has a place in pop culture (specifically '80s video gaming culture). The line "Red warrior needs food badly!" was named the third best game line ever in the January 2002 issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly.

In 2003 the third-wave ska band Five Iron Frenzy released a song called "Wizard Needs Food, Badly" on their album "The End Is Near". Here they use both quotes "The wizard needs food badly" and "The Wizard is about to die".

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So it is like all your base are belong to us?

The problem with wikipedia is that they make every fact sound like a big deal. I've never heard of Five Iron Frenzy... and I doubt most people have? But yeah it's like all your base in that it's a random line from a game that lives on in infamy.

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

The problem with wikipedia is that they make every fact sound like a big deal. I've never heard of Five Iron Frenzy... and I doubt most people have?

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Five Iron Frenzy is a great skapunk band! And they actually sold millions of albums during the 10~ years they were around.

EDIT: Youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rp9XvD5kXg

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

The problem with wikipedia is that they make every fact sound like a big deal. I've never heard of Five Iron Frenzy... and I doubt most people have? But yeah it's like all your base in that it's a random line from a game that lives on in infamy.

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ohh new macro!

somebody set up us the bomb * Mijin Gakure*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg

lol... i hate JA macros but that one would be excellent ^^

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

lol... i hate JA macros but that one would be excellent ^^

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what about ws macros? I put SC elements in them to try encourage more people to imprtu sc

I took out namas arrow when i went to exp though, use it a lot as sam/war, like someone is gonna sc with me when i am solo scing to oneshot mobs

Hmm, I guess as long as it's short, to the point, and avoids <call>s it's ok to do that. I'm rarely in a party situation any more... usually a farming ally or a very small group. I try to throw out wildfires when I see someone doing something that I know it makes darkness with but my primary goal is just to kill the NM fast.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8112/aerovsc.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1397/skillchain.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3170/quad2.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9452/savageblade.jpg

some examples

note about the blue spells, i only use those with CA, when freecasting I just use gear macros then menu the spell.

SCH is the same way I only use them when I am using the SC JA, I have no chat with normal spells

I'm not sure what to make of your macros. Are you telling other people what type of ws they would need to use to chain with you? Also 2 line macros are a bit spammy for my tastes. I thought you meant something along the lines of

{Asuran Fists}{Just used it!}

something quick to let people know what ws you've used so that they can pop off a ws if they know something that makes a skillchain.

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

I'm not sure what to make of your macros. Are you telling other people what type of ws they would need to use to chain with you? Also 2 line macros are a bit spammy for my tastes. I thought you meant something along the lines of

{Asuran Fists}{Just used it!}

something quick to let people know what ws you've used so that they can pop off a ws if they know something that makes a skillchain.

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WS elements.

Like when i say fragmentation A that starts distortion and light.
if you cannot SC with fragmentation then it uses scission ( start liquefaction, detonation, end scission and distortion)

what do you mean 2 line macros? it looks that way because I am soloing sc -.- and you can still make scs after it, if you know how.

My asuran fists would say gravitation/ liquefaction ws, because that is what it is

Oh i see ... you used two different macros there. It starts to make sense then. Those are fine macros but you'd have to do a fair bit of explaining to your party ahead of time so they knew exactly what you meant. And I hate 2 line macros b/c I use the hold feature for party chat and filter absolutely nothing (I know that's horrible but I really like to see absolutely everything that's going on... especially if I'm on white mage).

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Originally Posted by Hoshi

Oh i see ... you used two different macros there. It starts to make sense then. Those are fine macros but you'd have to do a fair bit of explaining to your party ahead of time so they knew exactly what you meant. And I hate 2 line macros b/c I use the hold feature for party chat and filter absolutely nothing (I know that's horrible but I really like to see absolutely everything that's going on... especially if I'm on white mage).

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yeah look at the pics again you see the scs being made lol XD.

well first pic the onstrean damage is the sc detonation ( made by scission > detonation as showen) and the quad pic was overkill so the sc never took place.

take a look at those pics again, your just like me XD <3

You can bring a THF for TA; no one has problem 5 years ago so I don't understand where this difficulty coming from.

I think it's just the party setup and choice; nothing wrong with the job level. Don't complaint your lv30 WHM can't cure VI...

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Originally Posted by Sama

You can bring a THF for TA; no one has problem 5 years ago so I don't understand where this difficulty coming from.

I think it's just the party setup and choice; nothing wrong with the job level. Don't complaint your lv30 WHM can't cure VI...

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If you need a THF for TA your killing to slow. That gideline existed since ATU area leveling